Pro Wrasslin' Thread: I don't know what I just saw

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Attitude era had higher ratings because of shock value and mass appeal. Hitting mankind in the head with a chair to the point where his head bleeds out is ridiculous. Wrestling on thumb tacks. The rise of Hardcore Wrestling. Hillbilly shit.

Wrestling was not dying before AE. WWF was dying before AE. What saved the WWF wasn't wrestling but story lines. It can be arguable that the Attitude era ultimately killed wrestling in America. Vince bought and strong armed all the competition because he's a fucking prick. Then WCW died. Now WWE was the only game in town. THAT killed wrestling, and wrestling popularity now is fucking horrible.

I see what you're saying and I'll agree to disagree with most, respectfully.

However Vince killed wrestling because he won the war. The minute he invaded WCW I essentially tuned out and haven't really be a big fan since.

Eliminate the talent pool vince, good idea.

[Himu]

The cruiser weight division was the most positive thing about the era and the thing has helped wrestling the most because if it weren't for that division many wrestlers we like today like cm punk and Daniel Bryan wouldn't have even tried.

Eddie v Rey at Halloween Havok is the most beautiful match I have ever seen. Pure art.

[Himu]

Well we agree that Vince McMahon and WWF killed wrestling in general in America. The 70's and 80's had the highest ticket buys of live wrestling more than any era. And that asshole went blew it all up.

Going by footage, and talking about American wrestling only, I'm going to have put 80's as the GOAT era. This includes WWF, NWA, and more.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Well we agree that Vince McMahon and WWF killed wrestling in general in America. The 70's and 80's had the highest ticket buys of live wrestling more than any era. And that asshole went blew it all up.

Going by footage, and talking about American wrestling only, I'm going to have put 80's as the GOAT era. This includes WWF, NWA, and more.

Agree 1980's and territories were the best time.

Also...decide to take your 70 dollar PPV buy ins and dismiss them for $10.00 a month subscriptions brehs.

[Himu]

The amount of ways we can talk about how Vince and WWE have ruined wrestling are numerous.

One of the worst ones? Revealing it to be fake. But it goes way beyond that these days.

They killed the mystique, and these days, have no pretenses on it being fake. For example, hosting a fucking shoot-esque interview with Vince on Austin's podcast on the WWE Network, advertised, after Raw. With the mystique gone, what is left for the casual fan? For the casual fan it's like going to a magic show when you already know how the tricks are done. WWE and Vince exposed the business and now that they're the only game in town, with the advent of the Internet, now no longer make any pretenses that this entire thing is a work and kayfabe is pretty much dead. When you buy a documentary on a wrestler they always present it as if it's fake. I bet one of the reasons 70's and 80's wrestling was booming was because they treat wrestling (as in the whole product) as a sport, as if it were real.

Fuck sports entertainment.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Sports Entertainment

[Himu]

[Am_I_Anonymous]

I remember the good old days when people stayed in character

I got to meet Andre and Hogan at an event once with my pops. He hustled my way into the back to meet the guys and Andre was straight in hell character.

7 year old me was blown away by how BIG he was. I mean seriously his hands were as big around as a stop sign.

I remember asking him for an autograph and he said "NO Andre does not sign for brats go away"

I was all 

Then Hogan came into the room and was like "Andre brother, you better give that kid an autograph or I'll drop a big leg on you right now"
And they both did.  I still have them.

I don't give a fuck what anybody says, Hogan ruled.

[Himu]

These days, a wrestler who plays heel, like Seth Rollins will make a tweet about how to get over as a pro wrestler and make a response to the Vince McMahon interview I was talking about. Even in public they have zero worry nor care about protecting the business and air their stuff openly. I bet if you were a kid these days you get to meet Seth Rollins the person, not Seth Rollins the character.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

These days, a wrestler who plays heel, like Seth Rollins will make a tweet about how to get over as a pro wrestler and make a response to the Vince McMahon interview I was talking about. Even in public they have zero worry nor care about protecting the business and air their stuff openly. I bet if you were a kid these days you get to meet Seth Rollins the person, not Seth Rollins the character.

See and that's the problem. Wrestling is about the character...bad guys were bad guys, and good guys were good guys. I miss those days. I miss actually being upset when Macho Man turned Heel against Hogan....or when Ric Flair would beat Steamboat. Legit shook.

I know most of it was my youth, but the formula worked...why fuck with it?

[Himu]

Money. They give all the bad guys their own merch these days too.

JR has gone off a lot on "cool" heels. They're heels that are flashy like a face but not fully willing to go full heel. I'm not a fan of it. It's like most heels these days are tweeners or guys in the middle. Vince says heels and faces don't exist anymore by the way. Another fucking Vince ego trip.

 CM Punk was the best heel of this era of WWE in my opinion so far. Seth Rollins heel turn had me shook and his heel run has been excellent, but it's still not enough. You could chalk it up to the fact that I'm older but that's not true. I was actually shook when the Shield broke up due to that heel turn and I still get shook from NJPW and NXT story lines. So it's definitely not my age.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-writing-changes-that-would-save-pro-wrestling/

 

[bork]

[Eric P]

if even HALF of it is true it's still incredibly damning

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Yeah I heard it. Just reinforces that CM Punk is a complete douchebag who does not play well with others. I wish him the best of luck saying "it's not about the money" while he tries to sell you everything he can put his name on.

Fuccckkkkk that guy.

[bork]

I dunno, I'm at 37:00 and falling asleep here.     When does he start talking about wrasslin?

[Am_I_Anonymous]

I dunno, I'm at 37:00 and falling asleep here.     When does he start talking about wrasslin?

Start at 50 minutes.

[Himu]

Yeah I heard it. Just reinforces that CM Punk is a complete douchebag who does not play well with others. I wish him the best of luck saying "it's not about the money" while he tries to sell you everything he can put his name on.

Fuccckkkkk that guy.

I agree with Meltzer. Pretty much all the top guys have huge egos. It's why they're top guys. Hogan for instance is a notorious blowhard and ego maniac and dickhead for instance.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Yeah I heard it. Just reinforces that CM Punk is a complete douchebag who does not play well with others. I wish him the best of luck saying "it's not about the money" while he tries to sell you everything he can put his name on.

Fuccckkkkk that guy.

I agree with Meltzer. Pretty much all the top guys have huge egos. It's why they're top guys.

Let me consult my memory

Hogan: Dick
Flair: Dick
Michaels: Dick
Austin: Dick
Rock: Nice Guy
CM Punk: Dick

Yup you're probably right.

[pilonv1]

This weeks podcast was shit until the last 30minutes. Colt is insufferable.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

This weeks podcast was shit until the last 30minutes. Colt is insufferable.

He's gotta be autistic

Take 5 minutes to explain the meaning of doors to him breh

[Himu]

I wouldn't call Austin a dick but maybe I'm wrong. Daniel Bryan is a top guy and he's like the most humble wrestler ever. Imo, of the current roster, the only guys give off the feeling they want to be top guy are Ambrose, Rollins, Ziggler, Bryan, mayyyybe Reigns if he steps his game up.

heres the backstage report fyi and meltzer's opinion. The whole "I would be honored to do programs with rock, lesnar, and undertaker" thing reeks of wimp shit. Maybe Vince is right about the new crop of wrestlers. They're just satisfied with being here and not being the best they can be. To be fair, when they DO try to be the best they can be without the E's approval they're buried and shat on like Zack Ryder's case. So who knows. Either way, interesting.

We were told most, but certainly not all, of the WWE talent loved some of what he said what he said. Many were not happy about him complaining about his booking when he was booked better than all but a few guys over the past three years. The feeling of guys that while he complained about putting over Rock, Undertaker and Brock Lesnar in 2013, that most of them would have loved to have been in the position to work twice with Rock, and then do Mania against Undertaker and SummerSlam with Lesnar regardless of the outcome. One major name, while seeing Punk’s side on the medical issue and some other issues , felt most of the interview was “sour grapes.”
Many felt he came off badly about complaining that he was booked against HHH at WrestleMania, noting he’d be in one of the top matches and would get ample time to promote it. McMahon in the Austin podcast said that WrestleMania wasn’t about one main event these days, although Punk’s argument to that is that the guys in the one real main event get paid far better than just about anyone else on the show. Several felt he made himself look bad in complaining about having to put over Rock, Undertaker and Lesnar. The “two sides of every story” saying was said by others, but there was also a consensus that what he said about his experience in WWE was the same as many would say, with the difference that he made more money than all but a few, and they admired his balls to say it publicly.
Another person who knows several major WWE talents said, discounting the few that will parrot whatever Punk said, his experience is that there was a feeling that Punk’s comments on Ryback were unprofessional and cheap, and that nobody bought Ryback kicked Punk as hard as he could or intentionally broke his ribs. However, there was the feeling Punk is a genius, particularly for how he handled the situation. There was a lot of hate for Colt Cabana (I really don’t see why) according to one person. Some said they felt Punk was bitter. Almost nobody had any sympathy for his injury situation, noting that every top guy on the roster that works a full schedule has a litany of injuries.
And Meltzer's opinion:
Some people will interpret this as WWE = bad, others as Punk is an egomaniac, some of his facts weren’t correct, and use that to absolve WWE of anything negative. The reality is somewhere in the middle.
But on the egomaniac thing, or Punk has too high an opinion of himself, this is a fact of life that people who say these things about main event talent don’t understand. They are all like that or they wouldn’t be main event talent. If you don’t have the confidence that you are the best, you wouldn’t be main event talent. It amuses me when people read books by top stars or listen to interviews and go, “This guy is full of himself.” If they are a top guy, either they are being honest with you and are, to a degree, full of themselves, or they are putting on fake performance. Privately, there isn’t one of them who doesn’t think they are the best, some are more subtle about it than others. And as time goes on, the ones who are comfortable with it, hold back on the fakeness a lot less. Punk was not the greatest natural athlete. He did not have a look that would have gotten him a push in another era. He had tons of great matches because he was in good enough shape to do so, worked hard enough to do so, and was smart enough to understand how to do so. His promo ability is top tier on the all-time list, which is something that is a combination of hard work, practice, and ego.
If you knock him for thinking he should have had a WrestleMania main event, just remember if he wasn’t thinking that way, he’d be just a guy in prelims who would have never gotten higher than those in charge pegged him to get at first. And if that person had complained, nobody would give a rats ass what he said, true or not. Everyone has different goals. From the outside, the idea that someone believes they succeeded or failed as a pro wrestler based on whether they got a WrestleMania main event sounds like somebody with a major problem. While there is some realness to it, it’s also in other ways a fake honor chosen largely by one guy. It’s a guy who has a great track record historically at building his company, but also has greatly lessened the overall popularity of the industry at the same time, and whose track record at knowing what top talent is in this day and age and being ahead of the curve on it is spotty at best. The reality is this is a company that wanted to fire Punk years ago, that fired Daniel Bryan twice, and would have totally botched this year’s Mania had Punk not quit. They even came close to cutting Cena, whose charisma was obvious in his first week of training school to anyone with an eye for talent. And it was a company determined to put Orton vs. Batista as last year’s Mania main event. Worrying about their judgment to define how you look at your career is ridiculous.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Austin buried quite a few dudes back in the day. But again I think you have to when you have the stroke.

I read somewhere he refused to work against Eddy for anything important because he didn't think Eddy was big enough to challenge him.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Links dead but somebody copy and pasted this article which is a good read

http://www.dayonepatch.com/index.php?/topic/51185-interesting-article-that-challenges-stone-cold-steve-austin/

[Himu]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-writing-changes-that-would-save-pro-wrestling/

 

What they mean by pro wrestling they really mean WWE. NJPW, TNA, LUCHA, or anyone else does most of this. WWE is the worst big wrestling fed in the world. Even NXT, owned by WWE, doesn't do this shit.

Being a WWE fan does not a pro wrestling fan make. It annoys me when people make sweeping statements about pro wrestling when it's wholly a WWE problem.

That said, it's on the money.

[bork]

I wouldn't call Austin a dick but maybe I'm wrong.

Didn't he beat his ex-wife?

[Himu]

Ohhhh right. Nevermind. Dick.

[bork]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-writing-changes-that-would-save-pro-wrestling/

 

What they mean by pro wrestling they really mean WWE. NJPW, TNA, LUCHA, or anyone else does most of this. WWE is the worst big wrestling fed in the world. Even NXT, owned by WWE, doesn't do this shit.

Being a WWE fan does not a pro wrestling fan make. It annoys me when people make sweeping statements about pro wrestling when it's wholly a WWE problem.

That said, it's on the money.

[Himu]

TNA is definitely over scripted and cheesy. But they don't hold back stars and it doesn't pretend it's anything more than a cheesy wrestling show.

[bork]

TNA is definitely over scripted and cheesy. But they don't hold back stars and it doesn't pretend it's anything more than a cheesy wrestling show.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Hogan ruined TNA.

At one point they had a really decent amount of wrestlers and people were getting pushes and hall the sudden Hogan came in and it went back to the same old same old.

[bork]

Hogan ruined TNA.

At one point they had a really decent amount of wrestlers and people were getting pushes and hall the sudden Hogan came in and it went back to the same old same old.

TNA ruined TNA.  It was never anything more than an attempt at "WCW 2.0" and it failed.  Hogan also very quickly stopped being a major part of creative, so for once he gets a pass on this.

[Eric P]

Does anyone else watch NXT?

I'm really looking forward to next week's live event (I kinda forgot to cancel my sub to the network, whoops). 
Zayn against Neville has been building quite nicely forcing Zayn to play against type
Itami and Bálor against the Ascension will be nice because it's fucking KENTA and Devitt
The premiere of Kevin Owens (aka Kevin Steen!) who they've been building quite nicely through these promos

[Himu]

I watch NXT. Sami zayn's storyline is the best storyline WWE has had in years

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Can I get that on dish himu? What channel is it on? I want to check it out.

[Himu]

It's on Hulu and the network and I don't like giving wwe much money so I iust watch on Hulu.

I suggest NXT if you:

- want traditional wrestling show where storyline and feuds are only there to help fuel matches and rivalries.
- if you don't want to see the same wrestlers every week
- if you want to see more experimental wrestling
- if you want quality storylines that matter and make everything count, including having the belt

[Am_I_Anonymous]

It's on Hulu and the network and I don't like giving wwe much money so I iust watch on Hulu.

I suggest NXT if you:

- want traditional wrestling show where storyline and feuds are only there to help fuel matches and rivalries.
- if you don't want to see the same wrestlers every week
- if you want to see more experimental wrestling
- if you want quality storylines that matter and make everything count, including having the belt

Yup, right up my alley, thanks hun

[Himu]

Oh, and if you want actual women's wrestling and not that chicken shit stuff wwe has now because Vince is a sexist

[Eric P]

NXT Divas is being kind of weird right now with what they're doing to Bailey and the lilly white blond haired blue eyed woman whose nickname is "Genetically Superior" currently feuding with Sasha Banks (who is black) and calling her "ratchet" and getting the crowd to chant "ratchet" at her is just fucked up.  It may not be intentionally racist, but it feels really fucked up.

If you're just starting w/ NXT, you could do worse than to start with Nov 6th.  It has Finn Bálor's debut and starts to set stuff up for the next NXT live event (which is next week on the network.  I don't know if it will be put on Hulu after that).

[Himu]

Yea I have no idea wtf that storyline. To be fair, Sasha is a yuppie valley girl queen. Her character is a stuck up bitch character. Like a Mean Girl. So the ratchet chant is a slight on her because she's not ratchet. Still, weird.

[Eric P]

no matter what you feel about the CM Punk thing, you can't deny that this isn't weird as fuck

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2014/12/04/cm-punk-rock-john-cena-stone-headline-flintstoneswwe-crossover/



While The Flinstones isn’t exactly the pop-culture powerhouse it once was, there should be plenty of interest in the cartoon from wrestling fans, if only because it also stars CM Punk-Rock as the story’s main villain. CM Punk famously parted ways with WWE in late 2013, and in the past several weeks has spoken out about his reasons for leaving while claiming he’ll never again set foot inside the squared circle. Punk did provide the voice for his animated counterpart, as did the rest of the WWE roster featured in the movie, so in a way, this may well be the final time fans see him interact with Cena, Rey Mysterio and Mr. McMahon.

[Himu]

That's somehing I would watch high.

[bork]

[Am_I_Anonymous]

 

[Himu]

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Who greenlit this bullshit?

Oh wait.....

[Eric P]

Oh, and if you want actual women's wrestling

have you ever watched Shimmer or Shine?



there's a local promotion in NYC called Valkyrie I like which is mostly women of color
http://www.valkyriewomens.com/ sadly no matches online

[Himu]

Nope. Heard of them though.

[iconoclast]

Awesome video package.

On a side note, DX was a great stable. It had Shawn Michaels as the red hot heel who would always deliver a great match, Triple H as the rising star, and it helped get two prelim guys over in the New Age Outlaws by simply associating them with Shawn/HHH/Chyna. When it was time for Michaels to take some time off, they used his heat to solidify Austin as the new top guy and had Triple H take over as the leader of the group. Everyone benefited.

DX in 2006+ was pretty much shit, though.

[Himu]

Which DX though? DX reformed over and over. The initial DX was great. Especially the Rock feud. Or are you talking about the corporation feud? Chyna

That video promo package

[Himu]

I think a lot of people give DX too much credit. In hindsight a lot of their antics were worthy like dressing up in blackface against the nation. Lots of immature, stupid shit to get ratings. That's a big criticism I have for AE. Any sense of this being a family thing went out the window and the storylines were often awful and full of prepubescent humor. Got Japanese dudes trying to cut off Val Venis' dick, the sexual chocolate storyline, the amount of times we saw someone actually kiss Vince's ass, and more. They'd do anything for ratings, and the quality suffered for it. This was fine when I was a 12-15 year old. But looking back, it really wasn't good at all and doesn't have the timeless feel of 80's wrestling.

[dkdk]

cant lie with the numbers and the legendary wrestlers & moments that came from the AE era.

WWE has never and will never be that entertaining again.

im not gonna say that shit was  worthy now when we know everybody that watched it was like  back then.

[Himu]

the numbers were high because it was en vogue. that doesn't mean it was actually good. and most of the moments that come from the AE aren't even wrestling based. Most of them are story-based. As a fan of wrestling more than stories, I can't cosign that era today. I'll say it's if only because everyone rides AE's nuts and want a return to that horrible crap.

[dkdk]

CM punk signed a multi-fight deal to get his ass kicked in the UFC. Just announced.

[El Babua]

CM Can

Also, dude knows exactly what he's doing. His carny instincts are on the highest level.

[Stoney Mason]

CM punk signed a multi-fight deal to get his ass kicked in the UFC. Just announced.

What an odd thing to do. He is not a physical freak like Brock in a weak weight class.

That being said, more power to him doing whatever makes him happy.

[nachobro]

Watched an episode of Lucha Underground (11/26)...now I want to go back and watch the whole series. Prince Puma is seriously badass!

Also the show in general is very attractive. Cool lighting, cool look, and damn good wrasslin.

[Himu]

Lucha Underground is one of the coolest things I've ever seen in pro wrestling.

Hey, let's take the telenovela aspect of pro wrestling and make it feel like an actual film, with filmed backstage promos that feel straight out of a movie and dynamic in-ring camera angles. Just some fun, fun wrasslin that adds a creative spark to the industry.

Plus Prince Puma has a great butt.

[nachobro]

I do like Johnny Mundo a lot too. Makes me sad that he wasn't more well handled in WWE.

Makes me sad I don't have a way to actually support them. There's no way to watch El Rey network here I so just watch random youtube channels 

Dat Sexy Star too 

[iconoclast]

Final card for Wrestle Kingdom 9:

IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Title Four Way Match
reDRagon (Bobby Fish & Kyle O'Reilly) (c) vs. Forever Hooligans (Alex Koslov & Rocky Romero) vs. Time Splitters (Alex Shelley & KUSHIDA) vs. Young Bucks (Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson)

Six Man Tag Team Match
BULLET CLUB (Bad Luck Fale, Jeff Jarrett & Yujiro Takahashi) vs. TenKoji (Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Satoshi Kojima) & Tomoaki Honma

Tag Team Match
& vs. & Toru Yano

UWFi Rules Match
Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Minoru Suzuki

NEVER Openweight Title Match
Tomohiro Ishii (c) vs. Togi Makabe

IWGP Junior Heavyweight Title Match
Ryusuke Taguchi (c) vs. Kenny Omega

IWGP Tag Team Title Match
BULLET CLUB (Doc Gallows & Karl Anderson) (c) vs. Hirooki Goto & Katsuyori Shibata

Singles Match
AJ Styles vs. Tetsuya Naito

IWGP Intercontinental Title Match
Shinsuke Nakamura (c) vs. Kota Ibushi

IWGP Heavyweight Title Match
Hiroshi Tanahashi (c) vs. Kazuchika Okada


Pretty much everything besides the six man tag and the Toru Yano match has the potential to be great. It just depends if some of these matches get screwed on time since they're only going to have 4 hours.