Author Topic: Pro Wrasslin' Thread: I don't know what I just saw  (Read 945640 times)

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Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1380 on: November 27, 2014, 02:16:26 PM »
Guys and this was one of the biggest stars there. Imagine what the smaller talent go through. Tyson Kidd and Justin Gabriel must be held together by spit and glue at this point. Holy shit.
IYKYK

Mr. Nobody

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1381 on: November 27, 2014, 04:16:22 PM »
"I don't need to wrestle you. You need to wrestle me."

I know HHH was fucking fuming lmao

iconoclast

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1382 on: November 27, 2014, 05:12:05 PM »
WWE probably just hires shady doctors that will wave anyone off if they have to. It's far from exclusive to WWE; NJPW's doctor missed Yoshi Tatsu's broken neck and I'm sure plenty of other guys on their roster are really fucked up, given their style. Pro wrestling is just a sleazy business that will exploit the performers until they're either dead or crippled. Especially since the wrestlers themselves typically try and hide their injuries and work through them.
BiSH

Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1383 on: November 27, 2014, 05:13:18 PM »
The yoshi tatsu thing is so crazy. Fucking aj
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1384 on: November 27, 2014, 08:43:00 PM »
http://www.tmz.com/2014/11/27/cm-punk-wwe-fired-wedding-aj-lee-colt-cabana-art-of-wrestling/

tmz picked this up. bad news for wwe. they got a second chance after benoit's death, but this podcast revealed they've learned nothing and have only embraced hiding it rather than actually fixing it like the story they've been pushing investors and the public. Wow. What a year for WWE.
IYKYK

dkdk

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1385 on: November 27, 2014, 09:18:11 PM »
good

cokeboy & haitch

Cheddahz

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1386 on: November 27, 2014, 10:51:22 PM »

Trent Dole

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1387 on: November 27, 2014, 10:55:34 PM »
haha, I fired back at him cause I'm a child. :gun
Hi

iconoclast

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1388 on: November 28, 2014, 08:59:54 PM »
Bryan Alvarez did a (free) podcast about internal reactions to the Punk interview: http://www.f4wonline.com/component/content/article/77-figure-four-daily/40095-free-today-figure-four-daily-1128-backstage-wwe-reaction-to-cm-punk-podcast-with-colt-cabana-tons-more

Summary:
Almost everyone in the company loved it, even the people who don't like Punk.
Ryback is mad (obviously)
Vince is mad, but he's not too upset about it.
Triple H on the other hand is furious. "He wants to kill Punk."
Triple H and Stephanie absolutely hate Punk.
Colt Cabana is on the shitlist (it's not like he was ever going to get a shot, anyway)
BiSH

parallax

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1389 on: November 28, 2014, 09:50:24 PM »
Bryan Alvarez did a (free) podcast about internal reactions to the Punk interview: http://www.f4wonline.com/component/content/article/77-figure-four-daily/40095-free-today-figure-four-daily-1128-backstage-wwe-reaction-to-cm-punk-podcast-with-colt-cabana-tons-more

Summary:
Almost everyone in the company loved it, even the people who don't like Punk.
Ryback is mad (obviously)
Vince is mad, but he's not too upset about it.
Triple H on the other hand is furious. "He wants to kill Punk."
Triple H and Stephanie absolutely hate Punk.
Colt Cabana is on the shitlist (it's not like he was ever going to get a shot, anyway)

i love that colt cabana is on the shit list. its like the ultimate form of who the hell cares?

Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1390 on: November 28, 2014, 09:52:23 PM »
wasn't colt already on the shit list
IYKYK

parallax

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1391 on: November 28, 2014, 10:00:48 PM »
wasn't colt already on the shit list

im sure in some form. its not like he had a chance at working at the E again.

Eric P

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - THE MAN THEY CALL STANG IN WWE
« Reply #1392 on: November 29, 2014, 10:02:35 AM »

EDIT: Also there are not any better alternatives than the WWE wrestling wise. Every wrestler's goal is to be the wwe champion and big dog over there. International fame and a much bigger payout than any other wrestling company. It really is interesting to see how ProWrestling is still reeling from the aftermath of the monday night wars. There's one big dog in town. If a WCW still existed Punk would have probably jumped ship way before he left the business all together.

Listening to enough Colt podcasts that's definitely not the case.  Many people are happy to be doing their thing and in some cases they don't actually chase WWE.  It's just like every musician doesn't want to sell out Madison Square Garden.

As for the interview itself, goddamn.  He raises a lot of salient points and it sounds like being a mid-card wrestler is the worst thing in the world there just for how he talks about what it was like being a champion. 

As for supporting the company, the only thing I really cared about was NXT and I get that through Hulu.  I don't know if I'm going to keep this Network thing or not after the free month is over.

I really think the best thing would be if the wrestlers could unionize and get a performer's thing going like in other sports or entertainment (or sports entertainment!).  Shit's bananas.
Tonya

Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1393 on: November 29, 2014, 12:13:08 PM »
Punk seems to want a union. Whether they'll get one I don't know.

A lot of wrestling fans are torn by this. I see a lot of fans not sure thus want to even watch wrestling anymore because they don't want to support a business who does that their workers.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 12:20:47 PM by Queen of Ice »
IYKYK

Eric P

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1394 on: November 29, 2014, 03:18:06 PM »
Yeah i agree with that pretty much. Here's hoping it spurs them to action.
Tonya

Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1395 on: November 29, 2014, 04:20:06 PM »
It won't. Unless investors have something to say about it.
IYKYK

iconoclast

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1396 on: November 30, 2014, 04:54:12 AM »


Another botched Styles Clash at last night's show. Kojima is okay, apparently.

Up until now I'd say that every botch (that I've seen) was the fault of the guy taking it for tucking their chin, but I don't know what the fuck's going on here. It looks like AJ lost his footing and fell backwards.

I dunno, I think it may be time to start using another finish. Save the clash as a super rare desperation move that nobody can ever kick out of or something.
BiSH

Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1397 on: November 30, 2014, 10:46:37 AM »
He's broken two necks in a year it's crazy
IYKYK

Eric P

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1398 on: November 30, 2014, 11:44:19 AM »
two this month, no less

I am seeing him against Ricochet on 12/19.  Here's hoping nothing happens
Tonya

Eric P

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1399 on: December 01, 2014, 04:19:13 AM »
NJPW just launched their own version of The Network.  It's everything going back to 1972 for $9 a month

https://njpwworld.com/

update, not "everything" but many things w/ several classic matches.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 06:34:44 AM by Eric P »
Tonya

pilonv1

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1400 on: December 01, 2014, 04:55:24 AM »
Apparently it's fucking awesome to use. 11 live events from now until the end of January

Going to wait until the 5th so I can get the Tokyo Dome show :rock
itm

iconoclast

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1401 on: December 01, 2014, 05:05:46 AM »
Quote from: Meltzer
The price is 999 yen per month. The conversion rate is favorable right now as that price is $8.40 in the U.S., $9.60 Canadian and 5.38 pounds.

There will be a full lineup of live events, basically every major show will air live. There are four shows in December, including late Saturday's tag team tournament finals. There are five shows in January, including Wrestle Kingdom, the 1/5 Korakuen Hall show (Raw after WrestleMania show), and the two Fantastica Mania shows from Korakuen Hall, as well as a 1/30 show.

There will be a lot of archived content including what appear to be documentaries surrounding some of the legendary matches in New Japan history including Antonio Inoki vs. Willem Ruska, Inoki vs. Hulk Hogan, Tiger Mask vs Dynamite Kid, Keiji Muto vs. Nobuhiko Takada, as well as all of the major events as well as the G-1 Climax movie that playerd this year in movie theaters in Japan.

Takaaki Kidani said that New Japan is right now the No. 2 pro wrestling company in the world as a business, but No. 1 as far as wrestling goes, and their goal is to surpass WWE and be No. 1 as far as business.

They are taking a similar risk as WWE, in the sense they are undercutting the price of iPPVs, as the big shows have been 1800 yen, and the Tokyo Dome was last year around 3500 yen, looking to increase volume with the lower price. WWE was not successful in the same strategy. They also also apparently giving up Samurai! TV, as the shows that were formerly on Samurai! TV, like the Korakuen Hall shows, will now by on the service.

If you time your order, you would be able to watch the entire G-1 Climax series for $8.40 instead of $150 from two years ago and $110 this past year. When it comes to the U.S. market, they are undercutting themselves, but the U.S. is not their primary market.

Right now they are showing on the screen the Inoki & Sakaguchi vs. Karl Gotch & Lou Thesz match.

There are hundreds of matches historically, including everything of significance from the past three years, and some matches every year dating back to 1972.

The first year goal is 100,000 subscribers.

Sounds awesome. I hope they make an English version of the site and subtitle the documentaries. Probably won't happen, though. :(
BiSH

pilonv1

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1402 on: December 01, 2014, 06:14:57 AM »
dave is like a kid at Xmas on twitter, it's hysterical
itm

Eric P

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1403 on: December 01, 2014, 06:25:18 AM »
Apparently you can navigate around easily enough using Google Chrome's machine translation.  If you can search in English, it should be pretty good.  As for subtitling, I think your best bet may be fan subs but I have no idea if anyone does that already.

edit, i may sign up because it's much better quality than ustream rips on daily motion ever was for me

edit: i tried to sign up and the site gave me a failure

"I am sorry.
Because we have crowded now very, you will not be able to carry out the process. Go back to your purchase site, check the purchase situation, we will operate thank you so."

edit: got through.  the quality of these videos is amazing compared to how i've had to watch NJPW previously

edit: you can't search in English.  "AJ Styles" returns 0 results, but "AJスタイルズ" gives you what you want.  If you're looking for particular performers, the best thing to do is click Captain New Japan in the upper left which gives you all the tags, and you can let Chrome's translate convert those names then you can just watch from there.  I couldn't even search for Prince Devitt matches but the tag brings him right up.

The "age" tag is for year, though I'm having difficulty playing the older videos.  I'm at work so I won't be able to play around w/ it much but i can try to answer any questions i can if you have them
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 09:08:24 AM by Eric P »
Tonya

Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - CM Punk spills the beans, NJPW gets USA tv deal
« Reply #1404 on: December 01, 2014, 09:45:00 AM »
Njpw shooting for number 1 wrestling company in the world? He actually said that? :hyper I mean it's already number 1 as far as wrestling quality goes for me but business-wise I'd like to see where this goes.
IYKYK

Eric P

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1405 on: December 01, 2014, 03:48:02 PM »
Tonya

fistfulofmetal

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1406 on: December 01, 2014, 05:29:18 PM »
I was hoping Punks official t-shirt line would be good... but they suck

http://www.prowrestlingtees.com/cmpunk
nat

Eric P

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1407 on: December 01, 2014, 06:24:45 PM »
yeah that black flag one is pretty bad

i expected more along the lines of Ultramantis Black's shirts since they both trade in punk tropes

http://ultramantis.firstpress.net/order/merch.html
Tonya

Eric P

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1408 on: December 01, 2014, 06:53:38 PM »
NJPW World is fucking great.  Just fucking GREAT!  Watching these historic matches in damn good quality considering hte disposable nature of early wrestling TV and it's just good quality.  I will probably be keeping this and dropping WWE (since I can get NXT on Hulu)

I just watched this match.  Look at what people sell, look at how loose these ropes are, this is good stuff

Tonya

Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1409 on: December 01, 2014, 08:49:33 PM »
now THAT'S pro wrestling. :whoo
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1410 on: December 01, 2014, 10:01:09 PM »
caught up on lucha underground. could be the best weekly tv show in wrestling now. prince puma is my favorite wrestling in the biz right now next to low ki. his style is just :whoo

puma also has the best butt in pro wrestling :drool
IYKYK

pilonv1

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1411 on: December 02, 2014, 03:51:14 AM »
Isn't Puma Ricochet?
itm

Eric P

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1412 on: December 02, 2014, 05:15:03 AM »
Yeah he is.
Tonya

Eric P

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1413 on: December 03, 2014, 06:29:59 AM »
So this is pretty cool. I arranged to shoot portraits of Chikara wrestlers this weekend and we got invited to photograph the event as well.  So we will be taking portraits and will be ring photographers for the season finale.  This should be pretty awesome.

Hopefully I can parlay this into being able to photograph other feds and their wrestlers. 
Tonya

bork

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1414 on: December 03, 2014, 09:07:28 AM »
Vince McMahon was on the Stone Cold Podcast on Monday night.  They did a live stream on the Network.  He was asked about the Punk situation but didn't really say much.  Apologized for Punk getting termination papers on his wedding day and basically seemed to indicate that the door was still open for Punk to come back, citing Stone Cold himself, Hogan, Warrior, etc. as guys who walked out/had fallings out with, said bad shit about WWE, and came back regardless. 

However, Vince claims that he didn't even listen to the podcast. 
ど助平

Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1415 on: December 03, 2014, 10:51:29 AM »
Vince's interview was full of shit and confirms everything we knew about him.
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Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1416 on: December 03, 2014, 10:53:28 AM »
Vince McMahon was on the Stone Cold Podcast on Monday night.  They did a live stream on the Network.  He was asked about the Punk situation but didn't really say much.  Apologized for Punk getting termination papers on his wedding day and basically seemed to indicate that the door was still open for Punk to come back, citing Stone Cold himself, Hogan, Warrior, etc. as guys who walked out/had fallings out with, said bad shit about WWE, and came back regardless. 

However, Vince claims that he didn't even listen to the podcast.

I'm willing to believe he didn't actually listen to it....But HHH and Steph did and I am sure they gave him all the proper talking points.

I don't think Vince is a dick, I do think he's a control freak and empowers his family too much for a large corporation and that is why his product is lackluster and flailing right now.

In my opinion he's made 3 big mistakes in his career

1) Putting HHH in a power position while still letting him be an in ring presence was a bad idea and the outcome was predictable.
2) Getting rid of Macho Man, for whatever reason, was a terrible idea. He was a top tier announcer that only Ross and Bobby the Brain could touch. Him+Vince was legendary shit.
3) Empowering Shawn Michaels wasn't actually a terrible idea, but allowing them to control matchmaking decisions was.

I personally thing CM Punk is a overrated blowhard. I will never understand why people don't realize all he did was steal pre-wwf steve austin's gimmick either.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 11:02:29 AM by Am_I_Anonymous »
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bork

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1417 on: December 03, 2014, 11:15:25 AM »
In my opinion he's made 3 big mistakes in his career

1) Putting HHH in a power position while still letting him be an in ring presence was a bad idea and the outcome was predictable.

How so?  HHH now is better than when HHH was all over RAW in the early-mid 2000s.

Quote
2) Getting rid of Macho Man, for whatever reason, was a terrible idea. He was a top tier announcer that only Ross and Bobby the Brain could touch. Him+Vince was legendary shit.

Macho Man left WWF on his own.  Vince didn't want him doing in-ring stuff anymore and he went to WCW.

Quote
3) Empowering Shawn Michaels wasn't actually a terrible idea, but allowing them to control matchmaking decisions was.

Examples of this?  I thought all that shit was more of a WCW thing.

Quote
I personally thing CM Punk is a overrated blowhard. I will never understand why people don't realize all he did was steal pre-wwf steve austin's gimmick either.

I don't think Punk is outright lying or anything, but there's two sides to every story.  Some of the stuff he said was questionable, particularly the stuff about the medical staff, but then you have reports of the locker room being behind that.  I don't think Ryback purposefully tried to fuck up his ribs, for example.
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Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1418 on: December 03, 2014, 11:23:54 AM »
I'm not surprised somebody tried to hurt punk, he does come off as an asshole. I don't imagine he had a lot of friends backstage.

As for the rest....of course it's my opinion but

1) HHH being in charge now has not helped move the brand forward. I've never seen so many bland main carders as I do now.

2) Macho was forced out..rumors of him fucking stephanie/doing drugs/fighting with Pat Patterson always pop up. I really think he got buried for no reason and would have been the perfect guy to handle the belt....but of course we all know Hogan/Vince Squashed that.

3) Michaels built the attitude era, arguable the WWE's best era since the mid 80's boom. However he also helped bring it down with that whole "I lost my smile" bullshit because he didn't want to drop the title.

However I forgive him because the infamous overselling match against Hogan was good tier and he helped get rid of Bret Hart who was the MOST FUCKING BORING in ring talent I have ever seen. 13 moves of doom brehs.
YMMV

Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1419 on: December 03, 2014, 12:51:03 PM »
Bret hart? Boring? He's the best in ring storyteller I've ever seen.

Anyways Vince listened to the podcast. Only to a part of it.

WWE's problems were perfectly encapsulated by that interview.

CM Punk didn't steal Austin's gimmick at all. That's a weird accusation.
IYKYK

Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1420 on: December 03, 2014, 12:55:30 PM »
Bret hart? Boring? He's the best in ring storyteller I've ever seen.

Anyways Vince listened to the podcast. Only to a part of it.

WWE's problems were perfectly encapsulated by that interview.

CM Punk didn't steal Austin's gimmick at all. That's a weird accusation.

Bret Hart makes me sleep.

CM Punk Absolutely "borrowed" from ECW Austin. It's silly to say  he didn't , punk in his own words says Austin was an influence.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 12:59:57 PM by Am_I_Anonymous »
YMMV

Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1421 on: December 03, 2014, 01:38:10 PM »
And that was the only thing Punk did apparently? You didn't see straight edge society? CM Punk v Jeff Hardy? CM punk v john Cena? So the only thing Punk did in his 8 years in WWE was borrow from Austin? :beli So is every wrestler who is inspired by the dusty Rhodes underdog storyline, that's bad too? Wrestling recycles story lines all the time.

And Bret Hart had some of the best feuds in WWF history. Bret v Shawn is top tier, Bret v Austin is also top tier. The whole Canada faction. Austin v Bret is my personal favorite of all time match. The double turn is fantastic.
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Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1422 on: December 03, 2014, 01:44:09 PM »
And that was the only thing Punk did apparently? You didn't see straight edge society? So is every wrestler who is inspired by the dusty Rhodes underdog storyline, that's bad too? Wrestling recycles story lines all the time.

And Bret Hart had some of the best feuds in WWF history. Bret v Shawn is top tier, Bret v Austin is also top tier. The whole Canada faction. Austin v Bret is my personal favorite of all time match. The double turn is fantastic.

Breaking the fourth wasn't fashionable until Austin did it. And he did it right here. Listen to him, Punk could have said this stuff.




As for Hart, we'll agree to disagree. In my opinion he can't hold the jocks of guys like Savage, Flair, michaels, and Curt Henning.
YMMV

Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1423 on: December 03, 2014, 01:47:41 PM »
The point is that Punk did more than break the fourth wall, and he had a lot of great story lines that had nothing to do with Reality Era-esque shoot working. Saying all Punk did was  rip off Austin makes it hard to take you seriously when engaging you on this topic.
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1424 on: December 03, 2014, 01:49:19 PM »
And Bret Hart is the greatest of all time. :bow
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Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1425 on: December 03, 2014, 01:51:32 PM »
The point is that Punk did more than break the fourth wall, and he had a lot of great story lines that had nothing to do with Reality Era-esque shoot working. Saying all Punk did was  rip off Austin makes it hard to take you seriously when engaging you on this topic.

Look, I get it, CM Punk for some unknown reason is some boss as wrestler now. I fail to see the innovation outside of the whole straightedge shit.

Hate your boss? Been done
Bitch about being held down? Been done
Pipe bomb promo (lol) Been done

I challenge you to inform me what he has innovated except C-tier crying about how he's being held down while conveniently forgetting he's a walking dick with ears who never attempted to ingratiate himself with anybody.

I have no respect for those who simply point fingers and take no responsibility for their own actions. Especially a guy who would have been a mid-carder during the attitude era.
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Am_I_Anonymous

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1426 on: December 03, 2014, 01:52:22 PM »
And Bret Hart is the greatest of all time. :bow

That's the wonderful thing about life...we can disagree and I can still like you babe.

I did watch walking with Shadows, it was good stuff.

Nash thinks the screwjob was a work, your thoughts?
YMMV

bork

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1427 on: December 03, 2014, 01:53:00 PM »
I'm not surprised somebody tried to hurt punk, he does come off as an asshole. I don't imagine he had a lot of friends backstage.

As for the rest....of course it's my opinion but

1) HHH being in charge now has not helped move the brand forward. I've never seen so many bland main carders as I do now.

Nah, that's still Vince.  HHH is the one pushing some of the younger guys and when he and Stephanie book shows, they always turn out better.  Really I think this is a case of Vince needing to step the fuck down and getting someone younger in there, but he just won't do it.
Quote
2) Macho was forced out..rumors of him fucking stephanie/doing drugs/fighting with Pat Patterson always pop up. I really think he got buried for no reason and would have been the perfect guy to handle the belt....but of course we all know Hogan/Vince Squashed that.

That's all dirt sheet crap.  I mean, it seems to be a thing that he fucked Stephanie, but the bottom line is that he was told he was "too old" to get in the ring, put on commentary, and ultimately decided to go to WCW when they offered to let him wrestle.  Those are the facts...his brother Lanny Poffo said all that on a podcast I heard.  Can't remember which but he was being interviewed and talked about that, plus why Macho is still not in the hall of fame.  It's because Macho wanted himself, his brother, and his father all inducted and the WWE doesn't care about the latter two so Lanny won't give his approval or induct him.  Lanny also said that Macho had this whole feud mapped out with Shawn Michaels, that would last a year and totally put HBK over in the end.  It sounded pretty cool the way it was described.  This is when HBK was just coming up as a main guy on the roster.  Vince rejected all of it.

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3) Michaels built the attitude era, arguable the WWE's best era since the mid 80's boom. However he also helped bring it down with that whole "I lost my smile" bullshit because he didn't want to drop the title.


He wasn't the only one doing stupid shit.  Really, this is just a bunch of prima-donna carnies who think they're more than just guys play-fighting.  It's funny when you look at how much stupid backstage drama comes from all that.
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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1428 on: December 03, 2014, 01:55:04 PM »
Nash thinks the screwjob was a work, your thoughts?

We know all about this up and down.  Why would Nash think it's a work?   :lol :dizzy  He had to be joking when he said that.

I actually side with Vince and co. on that one, because Hart was leaving, didn't want to drop the belt to HBK, and acted like a bitter little bitch about it.  HBK is a dick too for lying and saying he had nothing to do with it.
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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1429 on: December 03, 2014, 01:56:00 PM »
]
Really, this is just a bunch of prima-donna carnies who think they're more than just guys play-fighting.  It's funny when you look at how much stupid backstage drama comes from all that.

What a fucking great analogy.
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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1430 on: December 03, 2014, 01:57:13 PM »
Nash thinks the screwjob was a work, your thoughts?

We know all about this up and down.  Why would Nash think it's a work?   :lol :dizzy  He had to be joking when he said that.

I actually side with Vince and co. on that one, because Hart was leaving, didn't want to drop the belt to HBK, and acted like a bitter little bitch about it.  HBK is a dick too for lying and saying he had nothing to do with it.


No offense but if I'm HBK I ain't saying shit to Hart in that locker room after the match either. We all know his dad taught him how to break you in half in about 200 different ways. Whether I like Hart in ring or not, there is no chance I'd want to scrap with that guy, none.

As for Nash, judge for yourself.



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Eric P

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1431 on: December 04, 2014, 07:44:44 AM »
If anyone is interested, here's Meltzer's coverage of NJPW World

spoiler (click to show/hide)
New Japan owner Takaaki Kidani, announcing his goals of surpassing WWE and UFC as the No. 1 sports entertainment group in the world, copied WWE with the announcement on 12/1 of New Japan World, a streaming video service at http://njpwworld.com that will air all of its major shows, even down to the monthly price of 999 yen.

The service launched immediately after the announcement of the press conference, and was accessible worldwide. The next day, Kidani, without giving any numbers, said they were blown away by the number of sign-ups outside of Japan.

Kidani stated the first year goal was 100,000 subscribers, figuring at the time that almost all subscriptions would come from Japan, and figured they could eventually do several hundred thousand subscribers with strong international growth, and in particular brought up eventually having English language announcers for major shows and English subtitles, similar to how the show on AXS television would be done. He’s hopeful that the service, which will include all major shows as well as the weekly one hour television show World Pro Wrestling (although it appears they will run one month behind) will help international expansion, which is the group’s current focus.

What’s notable at the press conference is that they didn’t push that for the first time ever, the company will have a regular television show in the U.S.

Kidani said that they right now are the No. 1 company in the world when it comes to the actual wrestling product, but they are behind WWE when it comes to business.

Like with WWE, they are undercutting their PPV price, and will be airing their version of WrestleMania, the Wrestle Kingdom 9 show on 1/4 at the Tokyo Dome, with a two-hour pre-game show and four hour main show, on New Japan World, both live and with archives put up immediately after the show.

The service is priced at essentially the same price as the WWE Network and UFC network are for monthly subscriptions. Unlike both, they are including all of their up-to-date content with the exception of the one hour television show, on the service. In that sense, it is like UFC’s Latin America channel. Also different from the WWE service, this is no 24 hour live programming, and also different from both, the library is only New Japan content as opposed to purchased rights for footage from other companies. Also, unlike UFC, there is no price break for ordering multiple months, at least at first. Because the yen has fallen against the American dollar of late, the price at press time was $8.42 U.S., $9.54 Canadian and 5.36 British pounds, per month.

This undercuts Jeff Jarrett’s English language produced PPVs on television throughout North America and on the Flipps App on the Internet worldwide outside of Japan, which was charging $34.95 for the show alone. Last year’s Tokyo Dome was 3500 yen on either PPV or iPPV in Japan, and $35 for iPPV in the U.S. through Ustream. Essentially, like WWE has done with its PPV business, New Japan is killing its two-year-old iPPV business.

In this U.S., the mentality has been that it’s easier to get people to order a PPV on television as opposed to through a streaming service, although WWE may have sped up the curve on changing that one. ROH was doing maybe 2,000 iPPV buys for big shows, and did six times that on traditional PPV with a weaker show, its first time out of the blocks. However, WWE moving from PPV to the network saw regular PPV drop down to 21,000 buys in North America for Hell in a Cell, and that includes Canada, where the WWE is theoretically not even available to be ordered in 80 percent of the homes, and it’s a scaled down version.

But ultimately, the regular television PPV for New Japan is likely to have a short run. For the 1/4 show, while the super hardcores in the U.S. and Canada will order the network, a large part of the television audience won’t likely even know there is a New Japan World service, and for most, the Japanese commentary is a deal breaker and Jim Ross is a positive. But in the long run, once New Japan World starts broadcasting in English, people will learn to stream it for the lower price, provided there are no technical issues like what badly damaged ROH for years. The idea of Jarrett being able to build a PPV franchise with New Japan, which was a longshot but not an impossibility, via the traditional PPV route, seems far more than a longshot today.

A big difference is that while WWE takes in the lion’s share of its $9.99 per month, so there was some argument for doing it the way they did, New Japan and TV-Asahi are equal partners in this venture, since TV-Asahi owns the broadcast rights to the library. So they go from getting 50% of the Niconico higher priced sales from iPPVs to 50% of a much lower price point. Plus, for this year, the plans of doing doubles, which is two straight nights of PPV quality shows, means fans get both shows for the low price instead of having to order two shows individually. A usual New Japan PPV would be 2000 yen, so if there’s a double, like in February, it goes from 4000 yen for someone wanting both shows, to 999 yen, and you throw in probably three or more house shows during that month as well. It’s a super deal for the hardcore fan. The difference is, because of the television situation, New Japan is carried by the hardcore fan base. WWE is not, and the idea of the network was that the increase in casual fan buys by giving them far more content at a lower price makes up for getting far less money from the most ardent fan who buys everything. For New Japan, it’s far more of a risk. In addition, WWE, being an American product, has been able to provably be successful exporting their product, while New Japan has never been able to do so.

For example, the service would also enable subscribers to stream the entire G-1 Climax series in August for 999 yen per month. In 2013, to stream G-1 it cost $150 and in 2014, it cost $110 if ordered in advance and $160 if ordered the days before the first show. They also talked about how next year they were looking at doing every show of the tag team tournament airing live.

Besides doing four live events in December and five in January, they also have archival footage of some of the most important historical matches in New Japan history, dating back to 1972.

The first major event that will air is the finals of the tag team tournament from Nagoya on 12/7. Perhaps because of existing deals, this show will not air live, but looks to air on an eight-hour tape delay, at 10 a.m. Eastern time and 7 a.m. Pacific time.

The other shows airing in December are a 12/15 hour show from Koga (5 a.m. Eastern time), and the 12/19 and 12/20 shows at Korakuen Hall (both starting at 4:30 a.m.). Lineups haven’t been announced, but by tradition, the year-end Korakuen Hall shows usually have great main events. Last year they put the Tokyo Dome two main event matches together in a tag match.

The January lineup will be open with a 1/3 festival at Differ Ariake which airs in the U.S. on Jan. 2 at 10 p.m. Eastern time. I’m not sure if that will be matches with undercard guys or a fan fest.

The Tokyo Dome live broadcast will have a two-hour live pre-show at Noon Eastern on 1/3.

The Tokyo Dome show itself is likely to start at 1:45 a.m. Eastern time with one match, probably a multiple person match just to get people spots on the card, before the introduction of the main card at 2 a.m.

They will also air the “Raw after WrestleMania” show on 1/5 at Korakuen Hall, which starts at 4:30 a.m. Eastern time on Monday, the two major Fantastica Mania shows on 1/18 and 1/19 from Korakuen Hall, also with a 4:30 a.m. start time, plus the opening of the next tour, which will be 1/30 in Tokorozawa at 5 a.m., which starts the build for the two major New Beginnings shows in February.

Going forward, all Korakuen Hall shows are expected to be streamed live.

In Japan, most of these shows either aired as PPVs and iPPVs or they were live on Samurai! TV. It’s not clear what that means for the relationship with Samurai! TV. What is known is that when local media tried to contact services that worked with New Japan, Samurai! TV, Gaora TV, G+ (all sports channels that rely on a lot of pro wrestling programming, all would be very minor channels by U.S. standards) and several local stations that air New Japan declined to comment.

The network also includes all the matches from the 67 commercially released Best of New Japan DVDs, featuring many of the biggest matches in company history, dating back to 1972. There are also documentaries that are to be added in time, including the 2014 G-1 Climax documentary on the tournament that aired in Japanese theaters. There is also every episode of the one hour World Pro Wrestling show from January 31, 2013 until the first week of November.

It also has every 1/4 show at the Tokyo Dome in its entirety from 1992 to 2014, as well as most of the other Tokyo Dome shows, as well as a complete collection of the major PPV shows starting with the 2011 Tokyo Dome show. Not all G-1 shows from the last four years are up, because some shows are owned by television stations other than TV-Asahi.

In comparison to WWE and UFC, there are positives and negatives. The positive is on day one, this service worked far better than WWE, which was filled with technical issues at launch. The navigation is far superior to the other two, with searches on the front page with the names of every wrestler with a match, and you can search based on wrestler name, based on year, based on arena, based on television announcer and based on championship belt of tournament.

For those who don’t know Japanese, it’s best used in Google chrome with translations, even though some of the names are screwy. Without the translations, it would be almost impossible to navigate for someone who doesn’t read Japanese. However, it is inevitable an English version of the New Japan World web site is forthcoming and probably very soon. Riki Choshu is Choshu Force, Dynamite Kid is Thomas Billington (his real name), Jushin Liger is Beast God Thunder Liger, Vader is Big Bang Vader, Manabu Nakanishi is The Spiral Nakanishi, Shinsuke Nakamura is Eup True, Yuji Nagata is Hiroshi Nagata, Alex Shelley is Patrick Martin (his real name), Doc Gallows is Doc Gyarozu, Karl Anderson is Machine Gun Carl Anderson and Bad Luck Fale is Bad Rack Whare. But most everyone else is their usual ring name.

The negative is that WWE opened with 1,500 hours and now has more than 2,600 hours, and UFC has now increased its Fight Pass to 6,000 hours of footage. WWE has matches from numerous promotions, well in excess of 100,000 hours, but only a small percentage is up. UFC has virtually the complete libraries of UFC, Pride, Strikeforce, Elite XC, WEC, WFA, Invicta and other promotions, with almost all of what it has up. New Japan World only has New Japan, and has closer to around 350 hours of footage, nowhere close to its total library, but the quality, as far as main events and big names in the footage, is strong because everything before 2011 is either Tokyo Dome shows or either big name matches or significant historical matches.

The archives include most of the biggest matches in company history, but there are plenty missing. For example, the biggest match in New Japan history, Antonio Inoki vs. Muhammad Ali, isn’t there. However, Inoki’s mixed matches with Monster Man Eddie Everett, bodybuilder Mike Dayton, boxer Chuck Wepner and judo gold medalist Willem Ruska are there. At the press conference, they noted the Antonio Inoki & Seiji Sakaguchi vs. Lou Thesz & Karl Gotch match is up. Legendary matches like Andre the Giant vs. Stan Hansen, Inoki vs. Billy Robinson, Inoki vs. Hulk Hogan, Kensuke Sasaki vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Naoya Ogawa vs. Shinya Hashimoto and Keiji Muto vs. Nobuhiko Takada are all there.

The forwarding and reversing, at least on my computer, is the best of the three. WWE’s tool bar on the bottom is poor, and at times a disaster, although apparently an improvement is forthcoming. UFC’s works fine, but often there are issues in going away from full screen. The video and audio quality is excellent. From my experience thus far, the buffering has been non-existent, unlike WWE, which has constant issues and UFC, which has occasional ones, but that still has to be tested with a major live event.

The move is a big risk. Traditional televised PPV shows are not big in Japan for a number of reasons. Unlike in the U.S., where fans of wrestling were used to paying for tickets for major shows, and then the next generation was the big shows on PPV; while the boxing culture was closed-circuit tickets for the big fight and later PPV; the Japanese culture has always been about the biggest matches being available on free television.

While PPV did very well for Pride a decade ago, and the early New Japan PPV shows when it was first introduced also did well, it has lost popularity over time. Only a small percentage of the Japanese homes had the necessary equipment to even order PPVs. IPPV had pretty much rendered traditional PPV useless as last year’s Tokyo Dome show only did 7,000 buys in Japan.

However, for the new generation, the iPPV concept, which started in late 2012, was a big hit, peaking with more than 100,000 orders of the last two Tokyo Dome shows. Like with WrestleMania and WWE, the company is undercutting the price and thus, the Dome show almost surely will gross significantly less money this year. Kidani is a big admirer of Vince McMahon as a businessman, and the mentality here may have been as simple as, well, this is what WWE does and they are the world leader, not realizing what a disaster, at least short-term, the WWE Network has been. And perhaps he sees it that WWE will turn it into a success and long-term is the game. The problem from New Japan is they have huge long-term issues because of the age of the roster and having not developed marketable new top talent in years.

The company is planning on cracking down on its content being uploaded to the Daily Motion web site, which is where the majority of international New Japan fans follow the shows. At press time, a ton of New Japan content was still up.

The plan is also for the service to be available soon on Smart TV, PS 3, PS 4, Xbox One, and Apple TV.
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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1432 on: December 04, 2014, 09:09:48 AM »
Meltzer: distinguished mentally-challenged fellow

Anyway, listened to the CM Punk follow up podcast. Now I'm convinced he's a dick.
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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1433 on: December 04, 2014, 10:05:16 AM »
Bret v Austin imo is the unofficial launch of the attitude era.

And attitude era sucks.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 10:12:36 AM by Queen of Ice »
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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1434 on: December 04, 2014, 10:09:18 AM »
Bret v Austin imo is the unofficial launch of the attitude era.

Also the attitude era sucks.

Yes because the Monday night wars didn't save wrestling or anything

 :beli

NWO, DX, Austin, Michaels, Prime Taker,  Kurt Angle, Benoit, Eddy, etc.

Quote from: Queen of Ice
As for Screwjob being a work, who knows. But if it was a work it'd seal Bret as the GOAT if he's been acting this entire time.[/img]

Agreed 100% I would be all like

 :mindblown

Edit: I see the stealth edit :-)

Anyway even McMahon touches on that. He talks about allowing Austin to bleed...not liking it....and then listening to the crowd pop. So you're 100% correct.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 10:15:14 AM by Am_I_Anonymous »
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Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1435 on: December 04, 2014, 10:18:03 AM »
I don't care. It ultimately sucked, was highly damaging to the industry due to the sheer brutality, made so many crazy things that they simply won't do now and now the fanbase is spoiled, it is the prime example of victim of its success.

NWO was great it's initial run, but there was little pay off and was milked way past its prime. Which is that entire era distilled.

Watching WCW and WWF Ppvs from that era is painful. Awful, awful story lines. awful, awful resolutions. What you mentioned were bright spots in a sea of shit.

The best thing about that entire era was WCW in 1997 and the initial launching point of Austin v Bret and Bret v HBK. I think that it helps that what launched AE is arguably one of the top 5 wrestling feuds of all time (Bret v HBK) helps a lot, but the AE rarely if ever hit those highs aside from Austin v Rock, the WCW cruiser weight division, and the initial NWO.

AE is the most overrated era of wrestling and WWE have been milking it for nearly 15 years.  :trash

As for Screwjob being a work, who knows. But if it was a work it'd seal Bret as the GOAT if he's been acting this entire time. :lawd
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Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1436 on: December 04, 2014, 10:18:46 AM »
DX in hindsight also sucked. Though DX v the Nation was classic.
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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1437 on: December 04, 2014, 10:19:52 AM »
Wrestling was DYING before the attitude era. Did it payoff? Nope because neither company held anything back. Plus turning the NWO from 3 or 4 guys to goddamn wolfpack, black and white, hollywood, etc was beyond stupid.

However one can't argue that wrestling will NEVER have higher ratings again unless somebody can compete with the WWE.

Also: FUCK SCOTT STEINER

:ufup

Edit: Also it created Austin, who was the biggest thing in wrestling since 1980's hulkamania. Possibly bigger.

And it empowered the cruiserweights who were incredible wrestlers.

Eddy v Benoit :lawd
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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1438 on: December 04, 2014, 10:26:58 AM »
Scott Steiner :rejoice


Himu

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Re: Pro Wrasslin' Thread - NJPW launches own network!
« Reply #1439 on: December 04, 2014, 10:29:29 AM »
Attitude era had higher ratings because of shock value and mass appeal. Hitting mankind in the head with a chair to the point where his head bleeds out is ridiculous. Wrestling on thumb tacks. The rise of Hardcore Wrestling. Hillbilly shit.

Wrestling was not dying before AE. WWF was dying before AE. What saved the WWF wasn't wrestling but story lines. It can be arguable that the Attitude era ultimately killed wrestling in America. Vince bought and strong armed all the competition because he's a fucking prick. Then WCW died. Now WWE was the only game in town. THAT killed wrestling, and wrestling popularity now is fucking horrible.

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