Author Topic: Elon Bought Twitter- X GON GIVE IT TO YA  (Read 80223 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Madrun Badrun

  • twin-anused mascot
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1560 on: December 02, 2022, 10:25:28 PM »
I know you do.  That is kind of the issue.  One is clearly hate speech directed towards LGBT people.  Now I don't know if you actually see a difference between hate speech directed at this group vs hate speech directed at the millions of bigots I'm accusing of being active participants in a horrific crime (?) or if one is just hate and the other hate speech or if your free speech sensibilities lead you to think that hate speech isn't thing, which some people believe, or if you are just trying to make a quip.  Either way, the hate is the same because once you abstract each group it's just a set of people being disliked.  It's not odd to compare the plight bigots face to the plight of LGBT people at all.  In the same way, it's not odd that uncle compared women and bigots.  You clowns sharing accounts?

Anyways I'm done replying but I will let you know when I want to get back to free speech or moderation or Twitter or Elon Musk instead of whatever crawled up my ass about you personally for not meeting my undeclared standards.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Teehee, Uncle, I'm seeing the next post and not saying anything.  What a hypocrite!  Good joke.
[close]

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1561 on: December 02, 2022, 10:37:32 PM »
hate speech directed at the millions of bigots I'm accusing of being active participants in a horrific crime ...  It's not odd to compare the plight bigots face
You just did it again, you accused all these people of being bigots based on a single characteristic you know about them.

Sorry for replying to the content of your posts, in the future I will think about only replying to the posts that you want me to in the ways you want me to without ever informing anyone of this standard you will then hold against others who reply solely to the content of your posts and who have clearly aggravated you through objecting to imprisoning people for their speech. Especially their legal speech.

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1562 on: December 02, 2022, 10:48:35 PM »
What the fuck is wrong with you people :mindblown

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1563 on: December 02, 2022, 10:56:46 PM »
What the fuck is wrong with you people :mindblown
Lack of appropriate levels of moderation.

Uncle

  • Have You Ever
  • Senior Member
Uncle

Potato

  • Senior's Member
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1565 on: December 02, 2022, 11:23:10 PM »
The saner ones get driven away and eventually only the refuse remains.
Imagine calling the Shostacord the "sane" ones...lol
Spud

Uncle

  • Have You Ever
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1566 on: December 02, 2022, 11:31:57 PM »
what the fuck  :mindblown

https://www.teslarati.com/twitter-taking-child-exploitation-seriously/

Quote
She pointed out that under the new leadership, Twitter is “taking child exploitation seriously.” However, there is still much work to be done. There is an ongoing lawsuit against the social media platform that began before Elon Musk purchased it. The plaintiffs, John Doe 1 and John Doe 2 were minors who were sexually exploited, and videos of that exploitation were posted to Twitter. When the two, who are now adults, begged Twitter to remove the content, Twitter refused.

The content that the plaintiffs wanted Twitter to remove had over 167,000 views and 2,223 retweets.

 :crazy

the article goes on to say that the new twitter administration is actually taking this shit seriously and has practically overnight destroyed hashtags that were previously being used to traffic child exploitation materials


twitter takes direct action to ban individuals based on brief emails from specific democrats, while at the same time refuses to remove child porn when the victims ask for it to be taken down?

what the fuck
Uncle

Potato

  • Senior's Member
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1567 on: December 02, 2022, 11:35:43 PM »
Man, this is the most distinguished mentally-challenged thread on the bore and it is the gift that just keeps on giving.
 :dice
Spud

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1568 on: December 02, 2022, 11:45:25 PM »
anyway, those tweets  :whew

twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598837337584062466

twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598838041371516929
Good on Ro Khanna, I don't necessarily see a concern with Twitter blocking whatever they want but he made a much better case against this than many of the people who just want to use it as an inciting event to hobble free speech overall.

Tuckers Law

  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1569 on: December 03, 2022, 12:45:27 AM »
anyway, those tweets  :whew

twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598837337584062466

twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598838041371516929
Good on Ro Khanna, I don't necessarily see a concern with Twitter blocking whatever they want but he made a much better case against this than many of the people who just want to use it as an inciting event to hobble free speech overall.

I don't think you understand, Benji.  The stochastic terrororisms of it all must be prevented!  Hate speech kills more people than bullets!  DO YOU NOW SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM?!?

Transhuman

  • youtu.be/KCVCmGPgJS0
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1570 on: December 03, 2022, 12:56:48 AM »
You know I was on the fence on tolerance for gay people but some of Himu's posts recently have been mighty convincing and articulate amiright fellas?

Potato

  • Senior's Member
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1571 on: December 03, 2022, 01:11:22 AM »

anyway, those tweets  :whew

twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598837337584062466

twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598838041371516929
Good on Ro Khanna, I don't necessarily see a concern with Twitter blocking whatever they want but he made a much better case against this than many of the people who just want to use it as an inciting event to hobble free speech overall.

I don't think you understand, Benji.  The stochastic terrororisms of it all must be prevented!  Hate speech kills more people than bullets!  DO YOU NOW SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM?!?
You know I was on the fence on tolerance for gay people but some of Himu's posts recently have been mighty convincing and articulate amiright fellas?
Literal bullets
Spud

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1572 on: December 03, 2022, 01:29:13 AM »
I don't think you understand, Benji.  The stochastic terrororisms of it all must be prevented!  Hate speech kills more people than bullets! DO YOU NOW SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM?!?
Unfortunately as a pacifist committed to non-violence there's nothing I can do.

You know I was on the fence on tolerance for gay people but some of Himu's posts recently have been mighty convincing and articulate amiright fellas?
This isn't about you, narcissist, this is about the endless masses of slack-jawed morons out there who instantly adopt every component of the last thing they heard, often to the greatest extreme, who will then go out there and democracy wrong purely because of a quirk mandated by linear time.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1573 on: December 03, 2022, 02:02:37 AM »
The "decentralized" thing doesn't seem to be sticking for some people:
https://twitter.com/mhucka/status/1597724246037258241
https://twitter.com/mhucka/status/1597727397188468737
https://twitter.com/kiingbooooo/status/1596191861328445441

Lots of people saying Mastodon needs to "do something" about this too:


Tuckers Law

  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1574 on: December 03, 2022, 02:27:23 AM »
Unfortunately as a pacifist committed to non-violence there's nothing I can do.

Your future crimes have been noted and pertinent information given to the proper authorities.

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1575 on: December 03, 2022, 03:58:21 AM »
Holy shit, the Trump staffer mailing "at least pretend to care".
It was obviously glossed over by the MSM but the Hunter Biden censorship story is bigger than watergate. A couple of Twitter activists right then and there decided the election and willingly put the US at risk of blackmail. What's even more shocking is that they knew at the highest levels on the hill. No wonder Trump was so pissed at the Republicans.

Most western media is simply no better than north korean state TV but at least in North Korea they don't mix the lies with moral grand standing.
🤴

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1576 on: December 03, 2022, 04:05:36 AM »
It was obviously glossed over by the MSM but the Hunter Biden censorship story is bigger than watergate. A couple of Twitter activists right then and there decided the election and willingly put the US at risk of blackmail.
Like I said to another poster, you're allowed to think for yourself, you don't have to just repeat the exact phrasings you read on Twitter.

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1577 on: December 03, 2022, 04:11:02 AM »
It really is a bombshell moment Benji the walls are closing in the President is under pressure to resign and very nervous according to people familiar with the matter.
🤴

bork

  • おっぱいは命、尻は故郷
  • Global Moderator
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1578 on: December 03, 2022, 08:56:43 AM »
Holy shit, the Trump staffer mailing "at least pretend to care".
It was obviously glossed over by the MSM but the Hunter Biden censorship story is bigger than watergate. A couple of Twitter activists right then and there decided the election and willingly put the US at risk of blackmail. What's even more shocking is that they knew at the highest levels on the hill. No wonder Trump was so pissed at the Republicans.

Most western media is simply no better than north korean state TV but at least in North Korea they don't mix the lies with moral grand standing.

It really is a bombshell moment Benji the walls are closing in the President is under pressure to resign and very nervous according to people familiar with the matter.

ど助平

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1579 on: December 03, 2022, 09:50:16 AM »
Go easy on him, bork, our American politics enthusiast probably doesn't know that Watergate was a President engaged in a bunch of criminal conspiracies to commit no-fooling crimes against people entirely for uh... spite.

HaughtyFrank

  • Haughty and a little naughty
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1580 on: December 03, 2022, 02:01:46 PM »
https://twitter.com/ashtonpittman/status/1598753106086461455

Musk just randomly unbanning old accounts is pretty damn dumb

who is ted danson?

  • ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀✋💎✋🤬
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1581 on: December 03, 2022, 03:49:05 PM »
I have seen random accounts i followed pop back up and be like "i'm back"


half the time i didnt even realise they were banned lol
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1582 on: December 03, 2022, 05:04:44 PM »
Holy shit, the Trump staffer mailing "at least pretend to care".
It was obviously glossed over by the MSM but the Hunter Biden censorship story is bigger than watergate. A couple of Twitter activists right then and there decided the election and willingly put the US at risk of blackmail. What's even more shocking is that they knew at the highest levels on the hill. No wonder Trump was so pissed at the Republicans.

Most western media is simply no better than north korean state TV but at least in North Korea they don't mix the lies with moral grand standing.

It really is a bombshell moment Benji the walls are closing in the President is under pressure to resign and very nervous according to people familiar with the matter.


Same place you can find Iraq WMD's  :idont
🤴

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1583 on: December 04, 2022, 04:01:46 AM »
Only a handful of Twitter users who have threatened to leave the social network for open-source alternative Mastodon have actually deleted their Twitter accounts.

An analysis of more than 140,000 Twitter users shows that although plenty of people have said they are leaving the site, only 1.6 per cent have wholly abandoned the platform, which was bought by entrepreneur Elon Musk in late October.
:elon

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Not a good way to survey, there's value in parking an account even if you don't use it.
[close]

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1584 on: December 04, 2022, 07:23:42 AM »
I know you do.  That is kind of the issue.  One is clearly hate speech directed towards LGBT people.  Now I don't know if you actually see a difference between hate speech directed at this group vs hate speech directed at the millions of bigots I'm accusing of being active participants in a horrific crime (?) or if one is just hate and the other hate speech or if your free speech sensibilities lead you to think that hate speech isn't thing, which some people believe, or if you are just trying to make a quip.  Either way, the hate is the same because once you abstract each group it's just a set of people being disliked.  It's not odd to compare the plight bigots face to the plight of LGBT people at all.  In the same way, it's not odd that uncle compared women and bigots.  You clowns sharing accounts?

Anyways I'm done replying but I will let you know when I want to get back to free speech or moderation or Twitter or Elon Musk instead of whatever crawled up my ass about you personally for not meeting my undeclared standards.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Teehee, Uncle, I'm seeing the next post and not saying anything.  What a hypocrite!  Good joke.
[close]

I think where the point of contention lies that you are not addressing and getting push back on, is that you seem to be saying that removing bigotry or hate speech from your presence because you are uncomfortable with it is equivalent to stopping it (or the underlying causes of it), when that isn't any more true than saying you're fixing homelessness by bussing them all over to the next town to deal with.

Yes, there's plenty of historical precedent for speech leading to action. There's just as much evidence of suppressed speech further radicalising people than being available for open debate, debunking, and dismantling.

D3RANG3D

  • The Bore's Like Bot
  • Senior Member

Madrun Badrun

  • twin-anused mascot
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1586 on: December 04, 2022, 08:37:54 AM »
I get your point, but it is not correct.  It is not true that the only way to prevent bigotry is to change hearts and minds.  That is, the only way to stop bigotry is to stop it from existing, but it is not the only way for it to stop harming other people, which is generally the main concern.  I don't care what Himu thinks about gay people as long as he is not acting on it, which includes speech.  We allowed him to say shit here, how did that help him change his mind?  Who sat down with him and changed his mind?  Is he the kind of person that will change his mind given evidence or just double down and make posts along the lines 'if you are all upset it means I'm doing it right'?   Another example is incels.  Just because banning incel communities does not fix these people's views on women or their self-esteem, it does not mean it doesn't stop them from egging each other on and making the situation worse.  What is the evidence that suppressing speech further radicalizes people?   You seem to be deducing that isolating them just prevents opportunities to change hearts and minds, which is true, but it only works on the assumption that changing hearts and minds is the ultimate goal and anything short of that doesn't solve bigoty.  The issue with open communication is that is rarely works, and it works far less than the amount that bigoted communities recruit new members, leading to large communities that are easily insular and safe from criticism and more harm than good.  This is also not to mention that the best way to prevent  bigotry is to prevent them from becoming one in the first place, which is more likely to happen if such people can not be easily exposed to cush communities.   

« Last Edit: December 04, 2022, 08:44:40 AM by Madrun Badrun »

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1587 on: December 04, 2022, 09:02:45 AM »
I get your point, but it is not correct.  It is not true that the only way to prevent bigotry is to change hearts and minds.  That is, the only way to stop bigotry is to stop it from existing, but it is not the only way for it to stop harming other people, which is generally the main concern.  I don't care what Himu thinks about gay people as long as he is not acting on it, which includes speech.  We allowed him to say shit here, how did that help him change his mind?  Who sat down with him and changed his mind?  Is he the kind of person that will change his mind given evidence or just double down and make posts along the lines 'if you are all upset it means I'm doing it right'?   Another example is incels.  Just because banning incel communities does not fix these people's views on women or their self-esteem, it does not mean it doesn't stop them from egging each other on and making the situation worse.  What is the evidence that suppressing speech further radicalizes people?   You seem to be deducing that isolating them just prevents opportunities to change hearts and minds, which is true, but it only works on the assumption that changing hearts and minds is the ultimate goal and anything short of that doesn't solve bigoty.  The issue with open communication is that is rarely works, and it works far less than the amount that bigoted communities recruit new members, leading to large communities that are easily insular and safe from criticism and more harm than good.  This is also not to mention that the best way to prevent  bigotry is to prevent them from becoming one in the first place, which is more likely to happen if such people can not be easily exposed to cush communities.

I mean... this isn't a simple topic and there aren't any easy answers, so I'm going to unpack some unspoken assumptions, and try and talk in generalities rather than specifics because ultimately when you're talking about things like bigotry / racism / sexism / homophobia etc you're talking about specific (toxic) ideologies, and how they can be dismantled entirely, which - first unspoken assumption to unpack - is an impossible goal.

You can't 'kill' an ideology. We still have flat earthers ffs and we can literally send a man into space to observe that is not true.

At best you can limit them to extremists, and second unspoken assumption is that no, you can't convince everybody of something, no matter how true it is or persuasive you are.

So two flaws to humanity are; you can't get everybody 'in line' ideologically, and you can't ever 'kill' an ideology completely.
Given that, any attempts to erase human thought to achieve either of the above is ultimately doomed to failure, and the unspoken acknowledgement of this is people who think they can do this will keep doubling down and getting more extreme themselves in an attempt to do so; again, history is littered with repressive regimes desperate not to allow an ideology to flourish, and the perverse outcome that the more they try and stamp it out the more it does flourish.

If you start taking about 'forbidden' knowledge that 'they' don't want you to know 'the truth' about you give those people more power, not less. You make - what is ultimately a banal little evil - into some alluring secret power 'the elite' are trying to stop, and automatically positioning them as plucky underdogs.

Thats where the principle of free speech comes in; there have been a lot of studies that the only way to deradicalise people is to get them asking their own questions.
If you're telling people who are asking questions to go fuck off and be with the rest of the scumbags, where are they getting their answers? And again, this does not (and can not) account for people who are deliberately 'bad faith' actors, or ideologues or zealots - but the people around them who might otherwise fall for their bullshit might eventually start asking their own questions when a lot of good questions or logical inconsistencies continue to be glossed over by those self same zealots and ideologues.

Most people don't want to be in an endless tiresome shitty culture war, but sending people off into their own bubbles to ferment isn't the way to de-escalate.
In fact, I would postulate that actively driving people off to form their 'own' communities unmonitored because larger communities decided they don't want to deal with their bullshit actively increases the power of the extremists over those communities, as they have actual adversity to overcome and form bonds under.

Madrun Badrun

  • twin-anused mascot
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1588 on: December 04, 2022, 09:16:40 AM »
If the two options are to make something into a secret power for a few people or normalize it for a lot, I feel like the first is by far the best option. 

I agree that you can't kill an ideology.  I am debating that deradicalization is the main concern.  Just prevent radicalization in the first place for the most amount of people.   It may not be the optimal thing, but it is the best achievable thing.  Those bubbles are mainly online and can be popped.  You should talk about specific examples, especially when you posit that derdicalization is the prime concern, which is a very individual treatment.   Maybe Himu is getting his bigotry from a mosque and this won't help, but rather just isolate him more, but it would sure show him that his views are unacceptable to people outside whatever bubble he is in.  If it's not from a mosque, then it is most likely that he got it from online, which is a solvable thing.  Or, maybe it is from a mosque and he is actively searching out online communities that support it, in which case it would be better if they did not exist.


benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1589 on: December 04, 2022, 09:37:32 AM »
I agree that you can't kill an ideology.  ... If it's not from a mosque, then it is most likely that he got it from online, which is a solvable thing.  Or, maybe it is from a mosque and he is actively searching out online communities that support it, in which case it would be better if they did not exist.
This is exactly the kind of thing that leads me into misinterpreting you into having the same goals as Occam.

Madrun Badrun

  • twin-anused mascot
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1590 on: December 04, 2022, 09:50:28 AM »
I agree that you can't kill an ideology.  ... If it's not from a mosque, then it is most likely that he got it from online, which is a solvable thing.  Or, maybe it is from a mosque and he is actively searching out online communities that support it, in which case it would be better if they did not exist.
This is exactly the kind of thing that leads me into misinterpreting you into having the same goals as Occam.

I'm obviously referencing the online communities not existing not mosques.  Also saying it would be better if they didn't exist does not imply that the EU needs to set up gulags.  This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me think you don't argue in good faith when it comes to your free speech baby.  That and you know, abstacting to the point where you can compare bigots to LGBT people, even though I gave some very specific examples of bigotry and conflating various forms of free speech such that, if it's not illegal it is fine.


Sorry for replying to the content of your posts, in the future I will think about only replying to the posts that you want me to in the ways you want me to without ever informing anyone of this standard you will then hold against others who reply solely to the content of your posts and who have clearly aggravated you through objecting to imprisoning people for their speech. Especially their legal speech.

You still thinking about this, because it's a policy I support.  Note that is not a duty nor are you being compelled, so keep your screeching to yourself.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1591 on: December 04, 2022, 10:00:41 AM »
I'm obviously referencing the online communities not existing not mosques.  Also saying it would be better if they didn't exist does not imply that the EU needs to set up gulags.  This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me think you don't argue in good faith when it comes to your free speech baby.
What's the "solvable thing" you would propose for these online communities then? You ruled out legal changes.

Madrun Badrun

  • twin-anused mascot
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1592 on: December 04, 2022, 10:53:57 AM »
I have already stated this and you can go back to look at previous posts.  Social media companies can legally self moderate.  I can advocate for such moderation with out also calling for it to be moderated via laws.  Does this prevent someone making their own server to engage in hate speech, no.  Does making it so that people can't find such servers easily through Twitter and Google make it so that those communities stay small, yes.  Is that a solution, in the context of hate speech on social media, yes.  It seems like you just took 'solvable' to be an absolute thing -- to solve hate speech -- which is obviously unchratable even though, without context and by dictionary definition this could be interpreted this way, but to do so takes a bit of dumb-assery.  And yes I know, you have 'lumped me in' with other people who you have characterized as having this belief, so just how are you able to separate the two?  Well I don't know but I feel like that is on you and that you are actively trying to conflate and misinterpret because it suits your view that free speech is good.  Now I know you said you support minimal moderation, but I also think that you prefer no moderation, except for maybe illegal content, and that this is why when say that moderation is good, you necessarily jump to questions of law.  That is on you and your reasoning skills, just as taking what I say in the worst possible way because you think other people believe that and can't use your reading skills to tell the difference is also on you.     

And yes, I know isn't it hypocritical to say we shouldn't lump people in because it leads to bad argument but then say its ok to lump all biggots together teehee. 
 
*keep your screeching to yourself* taps sign     

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1593 on: December 04, 2022, 11:04:22 AM »
See when someone talks about how many people are dying, "real world consequences" and "stochastic terrorism" I'm going to assume they want something actually done about those things and aren't just making an appeal to some philosophical argument of the "ideal" in moderation standards.

The only thing I ever complain about in moderation is nebulous rules and unequal treatment. It's their forum, they can make whatever rules they want and if I don't like it I can just leave or never join in the first place.

Madrun Badrun

  • twin-anused mascot
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1594 on: December 04, 2022, 11:09:31 AM »
That assumption hinders on the fact that you think 'actually done' necessitates legal enforcement and that there is no benefit to self moderation in terms of a reduction in bigotry, which is obviously something I think is true.  Again, this is on your reasoning skills.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1595 on: December 04, 2022, 11:25:09 AM »
As I said before, I think we're actually in agreement. I'd apologize a third time but you're not interested anyway.

Madrun Badrun

  • twin-anused mascot
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1596 on: December 04, 2022, 12:04:50 PM »
We are not in a agreement in anything other than maybe the legality issue.  Your favored form of moderation is very different from mine, which leads to comments like this,

I see accusing millions of people of being active participants in a horrific crime on the basis of a shared characteristic to be an equivalent form of hate as accusing LGBT+ people of being groomers, especially if in both cases you're saying "someone should do something to stop this" without getting specific about what you want, sorry.

I think it is desirable to ban an entire subreddit engaged in hate speech.  I think it is desire to ban individuals in that community even if they have not done a hate speech post theirselves but just upvoted others.  If you want a specific example, I have mentioned incels before.  I value freedom from hate over freedom to say anything, especially in the context of freedom to post on social media and not a discussion about the first amendment.  You disagree and that is OK.  However, you are passionate about the subject and this and our different stances on moderation and values concerning 'free speech' are why, when after we have come to 'agreement' for the third time, you jump right back in and play the 'lump in' game, because I am arguing for a different value system, which you do not like.  Then it seems like your main defense of free speech values comes from the argument that bad things will happen if it is made illegal, which uses the lofty term 'free speech' to be easily conflated between 'free speech on a social media site' and 'free speech under the law'.  That is not to say you do not have other defenses or that it needs to be defended, I'm saying, given your posts, everything seems to lead right back here, even dispite agreeing that it shouldn't for the third time.  Now I made it personal with asking why you didn't call out Himu and I am sorry for that,  but I did not do that to be mean, I did that because it highlights, at least for me, the problem with a value system that puts free speech over bigotry as a very specific example we are all familiar with.  Ideally no moderation would be needed, if the community kept itself clean.  You keep asking me what the proposed solution is for nebulous hate speech on social media, and I think I have made it clear that my answer is swift and hard moderation.  What is your proposed solution to Himu.  And I think I have the answer here too.  Chrono, myself and all the others are free to leave the bore, if we don't like how one person acts.  And our concerns, even if they are very minor, that how he acts on the bore might have real world consequences can be dismissed.   

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1597 on: December 04, 2022, 01:30:17 PM »
No, we don't disagree other than probably procedural issues. I don't think there should never be moderation and I don't know why anyone would think that anyone would think that. Free speech is only about the government. There is no "free speech" position on private moderation, that's a matter of taste and decorum. (Which is uncouth to debate with the homeowner unsolicited.) Himu being banned from The Bore, Trump being banned from Twitter, filler being banned from Facebook, none of these are free speech issues. Of course an owner can remove anything they want that someone else has put on their property, even if they broadly non-contractually said "put whatever you want" beforehand. (Although some in MAGA are very determined to establish the right to command someone else's property to publish your personal speech.)

Additionally, you are merely the first person I have actually seen to date, anywhere outside of the place from which it spawned, concerned (or "concerned" as is more clearly in the case in most instances) about stochastic terrorism who is not using it in conjunction with advocating for the criminalization of speech.

Madrun Badrun

  • twin-anused mascot
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1598 on: December 04, 2022, 02:28:04 PM »
So Musk, being the new homeowner, gets to set the rules because he is legally allowed to do so and it is uncouth to advocate against what the homeowner wants (and we can ignore the fact that the analogy of Twitter being a home and not social media with the same set of social standards is bunk).  I assume the proposed solution to not being hurt is to just leave the neighborhood.  This is a value claim that it is more important to respect the homeowner over respecting those who might be hurt by what goes on in that home. It also does not say how you think moderation should be, other than you being a guest should not have an opinion on moderation.  I do not agree with this.  The fact that you can not legally dictate what a homeowner does in their home, does not mean you should not advocate for them doing better, and this is where the analogy breaks down, because unlike someone owning a home, you can advocate for standards on social media.  When you don't advocate for such standards, it seems like it is because you prefer minimal standards, or I guess, its just respect for the owners standards that is more important.  Is it really uncouth to be publicly concerned with Musk's policies causing social harm?         

Additionally am I the only person who is concerned with stochastic terrorism and not calling for the criminalization of speech, because you have done the same thing you did above and assume that because you don't believe that moderation can prevent such things, it necessitates lawful intervention?  You made a false inference that legal intervention was the inevitable outcome based on not seeing that others might have a different assumption.  Likewise, and this is where it gets tricky, in terms of the law, other people, including myself, believe that there are degrees of free speech and it is not an all or nothing thing.  I know you do not believe this, and I understand your argument, and it is not important here.  But, you must understand, that given others beliefs that there are degrees of free speech, that then allows one to propose different solutions to stochastic terrorism, some involving legal intervention, BUT that does not mean that any concern about stochastic terrorism necessarily requires legal intervention?  The reason why I say this is, because if you hold that freedom of speech is an absolute thing, as you do, it might cause you to dismiss actual claims about when or if legal intervention is being advocated for as just an attack on the absoluteness of free speech and thus lumping everyone into the same 'stochastic terrorism means no free speech' group.  I know you say you just having seen anyone else make the argument this way, I'm saying maybe you didn't fairly consider what those arguments were because you value absolute free speech and do not like attacks on it.  Again, just to be clear, this isn't saying that valuing absolute free speech is wrong, just that you seem to get hotheaded and prone to giving uncharitable readings when it comes to that and so maybe this 'stochastic terrorism' lump group isn't actually what you think it is.   

Occam

  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1599 on: December 04, 2022, 03:34:34 PM »
"Money is speech". You are not the billionaire who owns the social network? Tough luck, you don't get any say regarding the rules.
504

Potato

  • Senior's Member
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1600 on: December 04, 2022, 05:26:28 PM »
Can I suggest some more liberal use of paragraphs in this thread please?

It's just a big long wall of text right now.
Spud

BIONIC

  • Virgo. Live Music. The Office. Tacos. Fur mom. True crime junkie. INTJ.
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1601 on: December 04, 2022, 05:52:58 PM »
Can I suggest some more liberal use of paragraphs in this thread please?

It's just a big long wall of text right now.

I agree.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Still won’t reading a word of that shit ayy lmao
[close]
Margs

Cauliflower Of Love

  • I found my bearings, they were in the race
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1602 on: December 04, 2022, 05:57:44 PM »
Can we limit posts in this thread to 140 characters

spoiler (click to show/hide)
and i don't mean himus characters
[close]

:rodney

Uncle

  • Have You Ever
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1603 on: December 04, 2022, 05:59:46 PM »
there's so little happening -- twitter not actually collapsing and no one actually leaving, hate speech moderated more or less the same as ever, twitter regaining lost advertisers and not being delisted anywhere -- that discussion just spirals into meta-analysis

 :doge
Uncle

Potato

  • Senior's Member
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1604 on: December 04, 2022, 06:06:27 PM »
there's so little happening -- twitter not actually collapsing and no one actually leaving, hate speech moderated more or less the same as ever, twitter regaining lost advertisers and not being delisted anywhere -- that discussion just spirals into meta-analysis

 :doge
You just can't see the stochastic terrorisms wreaking actual violence in this thread and in the greater Twatterverse, uncle. Stop it before you commit a genocide.
Spud

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1605 on: December 04, 2022, 06:48:27 PM »
there's so little happening -- twitter not actually collapsing and no one actually leaving, hate speech moderated more or less the same as ever, twitter regaining lost advertisers and not being delisted anywhere -- that discussion just spirals into meta-analysis

 :doge
:elon

No one could predict the richest guy in the world who runs multiple high tech companies would be able to keep a website running.
🤴

HaughtyFrank

  • Haughty and a little naughty
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1606 on: December 04, 2022, 07:56:24 PM »
It makes me wonder what those 7000+ employees were working on. Obviously they didn't need all of them to work on maintaining the site but it's also not like twitter constantly hit people with new updates or innovations. If the site doesn't evolve at all from now own it's probably going to be fine for quite a while.
Of course there's also content moderation but afaik is the actual grunt work of that outsourced to the Philippines where some poor sods have to look at all that graphic shit that needs to be deleted

Uncle

  • Have You Ever
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1607 on: December 04, 2022, 09:29:45 PM »
"please help me budget, my company is dying

server upkeep - 500
building maintenance - 600
property tax - 200
office supplies - 100
employee salary - 7,000,000
planned upgrades - 400
other amenities - 80"

"hire fewer employees"

"no"
Uncle

Potato

  • Senior's Member
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1608 on: December 04, 2022, 11:01:33 PM »
Employee perks $30,000,000
Spud

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1609 on: December 04, 2022, 11:14:13 PM »
So Musk, being the new homeowner, gets to set the rules because he is legally allowed to do so and it is uncouth to advocate against what the homeowner wants (and we can ignore the fact that the analogy of Twitter being a home and not social media with the same set of social standards is bunk).  I assume the proposed solution to not being hurt is to just leave the neighborhood.  This is a value claim that it is more important to respect the homeowner over respecting those who might be hurt by what goes on in that home. It also does not say how you think moderation should be, other than you being a guest should not have an opinion on moderation.  I do not agree with this.  The fact that you can not legally dictate what a homeowner does in their home, does not mean you should not advocate for them doing better, and this is where the analogy breaks down, because unlike someone owning a home, you can advocate for standards on social media.  When you don't advocate for such standards, it seems like it is because you prefer minimal standards, or I guess, its just respect for the owners standards that is more important.  Is it really uncouth to be publicly concerned with Musk's policies causing social harm?
No, I am simply saying that if the owner has told you the rules, it's not good form to enter his property and complain about the rules. If you did it anyway and the owner dismissed your concerns, it is extremely bad form to try and debate it with him. If you continue it is highly likely he will consider you to be trespassing.

In Elon Musk's case he has solicited views, so it is not bad form to tweet @elonmusk with your opinion, something he also seems to actually respond to.

You seem to be seeking from me a universal principle for situational ethics.
Additionally am I the only person who is concerned with stochastic terrorism and not calling for the criminalization of speech, because you have done the same thing you did above and assume that because you don't believe that moderation can prevent such things, it necessitates lawful intervention?  You made a false inference that legal intervention was the inevitable outcome based on not seeing that others might have a different assumption.  Likewise, and this is where it gets tricky, in terms of the law, other people, including myself, believe that there are degrees of free speech and it is not an all or nothing thing.  I know you do not believe this, and I understand your argument, and it is not important here.  But, you must understand, that given others beliefs that there are degrees of free speech, that then allows one to propose different solutions to stochastic terrorism, some involving legal intervention, BUT that does not mean that any concern about stochastic terrorism necessarily requires legal intervention?  The reason why I say this is, because if you hold that freedom of speech is an absolute thing, as you do, it might cause you to dismiss actual claims about when or if legal intervention is being advocated for as just an attack on the absoluteness of free speech and thus lumping everyone into the same 'stochastic terrorism means no free speech' group.  I know you say you just having seen anyone else make the argument this way, I'm saying maybe you didn't fairly consider what those arguments were because you value absolute free speech and do not like attacks on it.  Again, just to be clear, this isn't saying that valuing absolute free speech is wrong, just that you seem to get hotheaded and prone to giving uncharitable readings when it comes to that and so maybe this 'stochastic terrorism' lump group isn't actually what you think it is.
Yes, I am bigoted towards people who use the term "stochastic terrorism" unironically.

Yes, the nonsense about "degrees of free speech" is meaningless to me because I cannot conceive a moral reason to respond to speech with violence. I don't support "absolute free speech" (aka free speech) out of some kind of religious devotion to the beauties of the mass free flow of information (though tis holy), I do so because I consider the alternatives to all be immoral. I take the position I do against defamation, for example, not to maximize free speech but because I don't believe anyone should have the right to impose an opinion on others through violence.

In any case, I don't consider stochastic terrorism to actually be a free speech issue, it is merely the cudgel people who already want to eliminate free speech or destroy the internet are currently using. The stochastic terrorism theory is a due process issue, I'm not really surprised that illiberal "progressives" are flocking to it in droves as violating principles of liberal due process is like catnip to those kinds of cops.

"Money is speech". You are not the billionaire who owns the social network? Tough luck, you don't get any say regarding the rules.
We already know you don't want any press but the state press, but yes, in a liberal democracy you are not allowed to just take other people's property just because you want to unless you actually are the cops. (Ideally, even they would not be able to do this but apparently there was a loophole written on the back of the contract.)



Pissy F Benny

  • Is down with the sickness
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1612 on: December 05, 2022, 11:25:30 AM »
can we go back to laughing at blue tick nonsense and Musk handling the takeover with the grace of someone who replaced his hands with sledgehammer heads?  :kermit
(ice)

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1613 on: December 05, 2022, 02:15:26 PM »
It makes me wonder what those 7000+ employees were working on. Obviously they didn't need all of them to work on maintaining the site but it's also not like twitter constantly hit people with new updates or innovations. If the site doesn't evolve at all from now own it's probably going to be fine for quite a while.
Of course there's also content moderation but afaik is the actual grunt work of that outsourced to the Philippines where some poor sods have to look at all that graphic shit that needs to be deleted
They were working on human rights issues and important issues such as protesting against Elon Musk.
🤴

D3RANG3D

  • The Bore's Like Bot
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1614 on: December 05, 2022, 02:20:38 PM »
It makes me wonder what those 7000+ employees were working on. Obviously they didn't need all of them to work on maintaining the site but it's also not like twitter constantly hit people with new updates or innovations. If the site doesn't evolve at all from now own it's probably going to be fine for quite a while.
Of course there's also content moderation but afaik is the actual grunt work of that outsourced to the Philippines where some poor sods have to look at all that graphic shit that needs to be deleted


Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1615 on: December 05, 2022, 02:48:10 PM »
I’m surprised how horrible everyone in this shitshow is regardless of being Pro or AntiMusk. Is like a bad miracle…

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1616 on: December 05, 2022, 03:40:57 PM »
I’m surprised how horrible everyone in this shitshow is regardless of being Pro or AntiMusk. Is like a bad miracle…

And the saga is still getting better. Now that Kanye and Trump are out of the picture Musks groupies are fighting for his attention.
The Quartering has a beef with Miles Chong, the crypto bro's are trying to upstage the #FreeAssange club and vice versa.

They're basically all competing for Elon's attention. The "QA" was thus a total clusterfuck  :lol
🤴

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1617 on: December 09, 2022, 04:21:10 AM »
:american LIBERATION DAY! THE PEOPLE ARE NO LONGER HANDCUFFED TO THE SINGLE DOOR OPPRESSING US! :american

https://twitter.com/LauraLoomer/status/1600864564417265666
https://twitter.com/LauraLoomer/status/1600964177090162689


HaughtyFrank

  • Haughty and a little naughty
  • Senior Member
Re: Muskrat to Buy Twitter. Time to Abandon it.
« Reply #1619 on: December 11, 2022, 11:16:38 AM »
I understand now that the 7000 Twitter employees were actually needed to keep the bore running