Auto Bailout

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

Toyota lost about a billion $ in the last six months.

They don't do quarterly reports, they do it by half-years.  Anyways, still, the first loss they've reported in almost a decade, but they are still expected to report a profit for the year overall.  Also, to combat this Toyota is becoming a bunch of dirty pinko commies.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Toyota lost about a billion $ in the last six months.

They don't do quarterly reports, they do it by half-years.  Anyways, still, the first loss they've reported in almost a decade, but they are still expected to report a profit for the year overall.  Also, to combat this Toyota is becoming a bunch of dirty pinko commies.

That not communism. That's a rational business decision. Communism would be taking money from one group of people (taxpayers) and giving it to some else that doesn't deserve it (UAW).

[Phoenix Dark]

It's not about "deserving" anything.

[Mandark]

Toyota lost about a billion $ in the last six months.

They don't do quarterly reports, they do it by half-years.  Anyways, still, the first loss they've reported in almost a decade, but they are still expected to report a profit for the year overall.  Also, to combat this Toyota is becoming a bunch of dirty pinko commies.

That not communism. That's a rational business decision. Communism would be taking money from one group of people (taxpayers) and giving it to some else that doesn't deserve it (UAW).

Deserves got nothing to do with it.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Oh thats right, silly me. "To each according to their need."

My bad.

[Snuflupagulus]

Everyone should watch Reagan's "It's Morning in America Again" ad backwards.

Apropos on so many levels.

[FlameOfCallandor]

There is a bear in the woods. And the bear is the democrats. 

[recursivelyenumerable]

Oh thats right, silly me. "To each according to their need."

did you read my post in the socialism thread?

[Crushed]

Why do Republicans hate Joe the Auto Worker so much?

[Van Cruncheon]

because he is a member of the fearsome socialist monster, the uaw, who strives to crush ceo and executive excellence -- and the monetary rewards of genius thereof, to be distributed dynastically among the obviously meritocratic upper class -- with their demands for decent wages and a middle class prosperity

[Brehvolution]

Why do Republicans hate Joe the Auto Worker so much?

All that money flowing out to all those people would be better serving the needs of a couple CEOs.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Why do Republicans hate Joe the Auto Worker so much?

All that money flowing out to all those people would be better serving the needs of a couple CEOs.

Or.... Instead of giving it to the UAW or the CEOs we just let the taxpayers keep their hard earned money. I know, I know, it's alot fo pinheads to understand.

[Phoenix Dark]

Your framing the issue poorly. This money isn't being given to CEOs or the UAW. It's an unfortunate but necessary life line

The alternative - letting the auto industry bottom out/4mil+ people losing jobs - is not even an option

[Howard Alan Treesong]

it is if you're a libertarian!

[Brehvolution]

UAW workers are told what to do for their job. There is no mismanagement by the UAW. But the management is trying to divert blame from themselves to the workers compensation as a factor for their monetary issues.

It's bullshit

[FlameOfCallandor]

The alternative - letting the auto industry bottom out/4mil+ people losing jobs - is not even an option

Why?

[Howard Alan Treesong]

because you would spend more in social services and support for 4 million unemployed people than you would on bailing out the auto industry

it's like $500 in preventive surgery vs. $5,000 in emergency surgery

[FlameOfCallandor]

because you would spend more in social services and support for 4 million unemployed people than you would on bailing out the auto industry

So the problem is the social entitlements...

[Phoenix Dark]

because you would spend more in social services and support for 4 million unemployed people than you would on bailing out the auto industry

it's like $500 in preventive surgery vs. $5,000 in emergency surgery

Yes. Can you imagine the trauma the economy would suffer if 4 million people were suddenly jobless? That effects everybody, especially my state

[The Fake Shemp]

Bu bu bu social entitlements

EDIT: Beaten, fuck you Ron Paul

[FlameOfCallandor]

because you would spend more in social services and support for 4 million unemployed people than you would on bailing out the auto industry

it's like $500 in preventive surgery vs. $5,000 in emergency surgery

Yes. Can you imagine the trauma the economy would suffer if 4 million people were suddenly jobless? That effects everybody, especially my state

Yeah I mean people would actually have to find a job in an industry that can support itself. Oh the horror!!!!

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

because you would spend more in social services and support for 4 million unemployed people than you would on bailing out the auto industry

it's like $500 in preventive surgery vs. $5,000 in emergency surgery

Yes. Can you imagine the trauma the economy would suffer if 4 million people were suddenly jobless? That effects everybody, especially my state

Yeah I mean people would actually have to find a job in an industry that can support itself. Oh the horror!!!!

What industry or industries do you know of that is able to absorb all these people?

[The Fake Shemp]

I wish there was a parallel universe that we could jettison you to so you could see what it's like to struggle for a living.

You're living in some kind of fantasy world where wealth and opportunities are distributed equally.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

because you would spend more in social services and support for 4 million unemployed people than you would on bailing out the auto industry

So the problem is the social entitlements...

Would you rather have a pack of 4 million hungry auto industry hobos roaming the Great Plains? If somebody is unemployed would you rather see them and their family wither and die than raise a hand to help?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I already know how this goes - you'll pretend that private charity groups are sufficient to support the homeless and unemployed - even 4 million additional unemployed - and that the principle isn't charity but the forced charity of the government taking your money. You're depressingly predictable and repulsively amoral.

[close]

[The Fake Shemp]

What industry or industries do you know of that is able to absorb all these people?

There's good money in meth nowadays!

[TVC15]

because you would spend more in social services and support for 4 million unemployed people than you would on bailing out the auto industry

So the problem is the social entitlements...

Even if social entitlements are a problem, they are unlikely to be completely dissolved any time soon, so you have to take them into account when potentially letting millions of people go jobless.  Your idealism may tell you social entitlements need to go away, but they aren't going away in time for their dissolution to have an effect on this situation.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I wish there was a parallel universe that we could jettison you to so you could see what it's like to struggle for a living.

You're living in some kind of fantasy world where wealth and opportunities are distributed equally.

I never said they were distributed equally.

[FlameOfCallandor]

because you would spend more in social services and support for 4 million unemployed people than you would on bailing out the auto industry

So the problem is the social entitlements...

Would you rather have a pack of 4 million hungry auto industry hobos roaming the Great Plains? If somebody is unemployed would you rather see them and their family wither and die than raise a hand to help?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I already know how this goes - you'll pretend that private charity groups are sufficient to support the homeless and unemployed - even 4 million additional unemployed - and that the principle isn't charity but the forced charity of the government taking your money. You're depressingly predictable and repulsively amoral.

[close]

I do help charities. All the time. I just dont like being forced to do it.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

because you would spend more in social services and support for 4 million unemployed people than you would on bailing out the auto industry

So the problem is the social entitlements...

Would you rather have a pack of 4 million hungry auto industry hobos roaming the Great Plains? If somebody is unemployed would you rather see them and their family wither and die than raise a hand to help?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I already know how this goes - you'll pretend that private charity groups are sufficient to support the homeless and unemployed - even 4 million additional unemployed - and that the principle isn't charity but the forced charity of the government taking your money. You're depressingly predictable and repulsively amoral.

[close]

I do help charities. All the time. I just dont like being forced to do it.

I, on the other hand, get a huge kick out of forcing you to do it.

[FlameOfCallandor]

because you would spend more in social services and support for 4 million unemployed people than you would on bailing out the auto industry

So the problem is the social entitlements...

Would you rather have a pack of 4 million hungry auto industry hobos roaming the Great Plains? If somebody is unemployed would you rather see them and their family wither and die than raise a hand to help?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I already know how this goes - you'll pretend that private charity groups are sufficient to support the homeless and unemployed - even 4 million additional unemployed - and that the principle isn't charity but the forced charity of the government taking your money. You're depressingly predictable and repulsively amoral.

[close]

I do help charities. All the time. I just dont like being forced to do it.

I, on the other hand, get a huge kick out of forcing you to do it.

That's because your a liberal. And liberals love forcing other people do to things.

[Phoenix Dark]

Like reading your posts

[The Fake Shemp]

Here's the bottom line, the strain that unemployed automotive workers would put on the system is unbearable.  And in this economy, where people are being laid off in the thousands every month, there's no industry in public or private sector that could an accommodate such an influx of labor.

What you're asking for is the death of the entire Midwest and furthering the gulf between the middle class and the impoverished out of pure idealism.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Pretty much.  Looks like we're winning too, so suck it down

Thats fine. It's not sustainable.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Me and you probably will never see a penny from social security. That doesn't bother anyone?

[FlameOfCallandor]

I'm going to shoot myself long before I suffer the indignities of the aged.

At least that will lessen the burden of the system. Do it for the good of the people!

[The Fake Shemp]

We have people that are worried about surviving in this current economic climate, including retirees and you're worried about our social security?

[FlameOfCallandor]

We have people that are worried about surviving in this current economic climate, including retirees and you're worried about our social security?

Yeah, I'm so selfish. Wanting to actually see my money again some day. Silly me.

[TVC15]

You can always just move to a country that doesn't take your money, duder.

[FlameOfCallandor]

And then invest your money in something that is 100% failsafe.

I'm going to move to an abandoned off shore oil rig that is made of gold.

[The Fake Shemp]

We have people that are worried about surviving in this current economic climate, including retirees and you're worried about our social security?

Yeah, I'm so selfish. Wanting to actually see my money again some day. Silly me.

Yes, I do consider it rather selfish to be concerned about money that you won't receive for decades rather than the current economic crisis which is destroying people's lives.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Me and you probably will never see a penny from social security. That doesn't bother anyone?

huh?  Social Security is fine, Medicare/Medicaid are where serious future problems are anticipated.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I think most Libertarians like FoC are middle class or upper middle class kids that never experienced a hard day in their life.  That explains why they have absolutely no perspective outside of their own personal gain.

[Phoenix Dark]

And then invest your money in something that is 100% failsafe.

I'm going to move to an abandoned off shore oil rig that is made of gold.

why not just buy a bunch of Nintendo stock

[FlameOfCallandor]

I think most Libertarians like FoC are middle class or upper middle class kids that never experienced a hard day in their life.  That explains why they have absolutely no perspective outside of their own personal gain.

You're assumptions are shit. Try again.

[Mandark]

Me and you probably will never see a penny from social security. That doesn't bother anyone?

huh?  Social Security is fine, Medicare/Medicaid are where serious future problems are anticipated.

Social Security:  The bogey monster of the innumerate conservatarian set.

[siamesedreamer]

So, this part time job with UPS has led to getting mail from the Teamsters Union.

What the fuck?

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Better join before they slash your tires. :'(

[Howard Alan Treesong]

ix-nay on the orced-fay ay-gay arriage-may

[FlameOfCallandor]

Of course.  Don't worry SD, the teamsters would never do anything unseemly like slip you roofies and snap pics of you marrying a drag queen.

They only do that if you dont join.

[Bocsius]

It's OK, Teamsters are more like a civil union, so it technically doesn't count.

[siamesedreamer]

What will your friends think?

Its probably enough to get me tossed from business school. So, no...they won't ever know.

[AdmiralViscen]

I don't know why Bush was playing coy about forcing GM/Chrysler into bankruptcy just yesterday

http://www.cnbc.com/id/28312112

General Motors and Chrysler will receive up to $17.4 billion in short-term loans from the US government as part of an aid package to the troubled auto industry.

According to details of the plan made available to CNBC.com. the package involves $13.4 billion in short-term financing from the $700 billion Wall Street bailout fund, known as TARP.

An additional $4 billion will be made available in February, though that will be contingent on drawing down the remaining $350 billion of the TARP fund.
The money comes with strings attached. If the companies are not viable by March 31, 2009, the loan will be called and all funds returned to the Treasury, according to the plan.
The terms also include limits on exceutive pay and warrants for non-voting stock.

Canada is going to be throwing on another 20% or so of whatever the US government gives. I think that's mighty awesome of them.


In other news, Toyota, the builder of omfg desirable cars, is primed to post their first-ever annual loss.

[siamesedreamer]

This bailout is complete shit.

Every one of the targets is non-binding.

[FlameOfCallandor]

We  should cut the middle man and just have the government pay all of our salaries. Seems like a god way to streamline this whole thing.

[Loki]

This bailout is complete shit.

Every one of the targets is non-binding.

What targets were financial companies required to hit for their several trillion dollars in aid?

[Herr Mafflard]

We  should cut the middle man and just have the government pay all of our salaries. Seems like a god way to streamline this whole thing.

   

This bailout is complete shit.

Every one of the targets is non-binding.

What targets were financial companies required to hit for their several trillion dollars in aid?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-car-makers-to-get-loan-aid-worth-174bn-1204481.html

[FlameOfCallandor]

Oh I bet your so smart putting that picture of Karl Marx there. I mean its easy to spout philosophical nonsense, but people need money to survive!!! Who will give it to them if the greedy CEOs and their greedy corporations wont. It's up to me you and our fellow brothers to step up and sacrifice what we earned.

[duckman2000]

They should have just bailed out the workers and third parties. Give the useless car companies a bit of breathing room to restructure and save their own sinking ships.

[FlameOfCallandor]

They should have just bailed out the workers and third parties. Give the useless car companies a bit of breathing room to restructure and save their own sinking ships.

Srsly, where is my bailout money. It's christmas time and I am stuck playing my 360 on a non HD TV that s only 42 inches. Did you hear that washington!! SMH

[Van Cruncheon]

earned? what have you earned that hasn't been given you.