DOJ |OT| SUMMIT NOW SUMMIT NOW

[Momo]

Coincidentally, the only SJWs I've met irl are all white people who strongly benefited from apartheid

[FStop7]

Think about how broken and petty a person one must be in order to want people banned from a video game forum for eating Chick Fil A.

[nudemacusers]

Hopefully mods are monitoring the recent purchase thread so we can ban those scabs buying from amazon on Black Friday.

[Bore Expert]

The Star Wars shilling is incredible. Force ghost Bobby is probably glancing upwards at force ghost yoda right now

[Momo]

[james]

I see the BCT and the alphabet crew clashing in the future. You already see a glimmer of that in that Buttigieg thread. I wonder who will come out on top in the long run.

You're asking who web cops will side with when it's a group of white males vs colored folk?

 

[Raist]

applicable, again 

(Image removed from quote.)

And on a current context, Sunni muslims prosecution of Shia muslims. I'm sure they'd like to have a word of the term suffering with african americans on their current context.

Or Uighurs in China. Or dozens of other examples, really.

[jorma]

come on now, noone who posts on ree has any interest in going outside the western world for their comparisons, since they'd be taking a hard tumble down to the near bottom of the progressive stack

[Bore Expert]

I’m disappointed in Hobbes. He was like redmercury shot out of a cannon on woke steroids

[VomKriege]

big yikes

https://www.resetera.com/threads/i-have-bpd-and-i-am-about-to-go-through-a-breakup-anyone-dealt-with-this-before.155911/

Jesus, it's like all the yikes variation mashed into one.

[headwalk]

resetera is what happens when every shitty aspect of being a human is given an acronym and people collect them like fucking pokemon.

[Momo]

[TVC15]

Onision is on hiatus due to harassment where will I get my drama? Is there anyone similar at all?

[clothedmacuser]

big yikes

https://www.resetera.com/threads/i-have-bpd-and-i-am-about-to-go-through-a-breakup-anyone-dealt-with-this-before.155911/

Jesus, it's like all the yikes variation mashed into one.

Wow, thats borderline personality disorder to a T for both of them.  But that guy actually goes to therapy and tries to improve himself so I'm not sure why he's talking to era about his isssues.

[BisMarckie]

That’s the same guy who claimed that his gf broke up with him because she found out she was lesbian so he was thinking about transitioning.
Now it’s because he made a tinder profile.
I am sure that’s a troll.

[Momo]

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/nov/24/i-live-as-a-feminist-but-im-tired-of-being-so-furious-all-the-time-mariella-frostrup




 

[Lonewulfeus]

I wish there was one closer, I've only eaten there a few times, but it's always been tasty. No crazy lines that I remember though.

In-N-Out around here always has crazy lines in the afternoon/evening, I don't even bother going there later in the day even with the people helping in line though.

If they aren't going to ban them outright, people who eat at chik fil a should get a tag so the actual good people here can just put the trash people on auto ignore.

And they say performative wokeness isn’t real.  But here’s the kicker...

I'm not suprised

I mean, I'm personally someone who will never go to CFA and side-eyes people who praise CFA (this thread being somewhat an exception, as the bigotry isn't the topic -but- what merits they in regards of service, even if I think the former is much more important)

That person was like the extreme strawman version of that and I suspected they were faking

They can’t even admit that most of the time it’s all bullshit to gain social credit amongst the rest of the crazies on reee.  As soon as they slip up once, the rest assume it was fake.  News flash, most of you reee fucks are faking it

[bork]

I’m tired of reading this shit in Era. If you eat there, you’re a piece of trash, no exceptions.

If they aren't going to ban them outright, people who eat at chik fil a should get a tag so the actual good people here can just put the trash people on auto ignore.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/my-internet-provider-mobile-operator-blocked-resetera.155967/

I’m sure their ISP is just trying to protect the OP’s mental health

[bork]

CHIKN IS SRS BZNSS

https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-is-chick-fil-a-popular.155785/page-7

Ordering from Amazon is defending their shitty labor practices.  Eating meat is defending the unethical treatment of animals.  You ain't slick.

You're playing with some moral score card that everyone will obviously not ascribe to.

Sure? Whataboutism isn't going to get anyone far in the reality of our world. But relative to Amazon, eating meat, etc. sacrificing a chicken sandwich is an incredibly simple commitment.

Amazon is super easy to avoid too. I don't know why people act like it isn't. It's been over a year since I ordered anything from Amazon, and not because I made a conscious choice not to, I just haven't needed to. Whatever you want to buy from Amazon, there will always be somewhere less shitty to purchase it from.

Same argument when it comes to supporting Apple, you always get people saying stuff like "Well you need a smartphone in 2019 just to get a job". Not only is that not true, there are other smartphone manufacturers out there. "Whataboutism" as people keep putting it is very valid here. We have posters calling people they know nothing about "pieces of trash" based on the fact they bought a chicken sandwich, it's only fair that people point out their hypocrisy because calling something a piece of trash based on one tiny tidbit of information like that is completely unreasonable. I can understand that people feel stronly about this issue, and LGBT rights in general, which is obviously a good thing, but it's also not the only issue that matters and to see people waving off their own hypocrisyy with theses lame excuses is tiresome. You're allowed to feel strongly about subjects that matter to  you without labelling everyone else who doesn't align with your strict moral code on one specific issue as a piece of shit.

Except no, whataboutism doesnt apply here as that fallacy is used to detract from the topic at hand, specifically CfA and their anti-LGBTQ funding; the thread isnt talking about Amazon, Apple, etc., if you wanna talk about it then a new thread can be created tackling each issue or a general thread consolidating all those issues.

My point here is that relative to the whataboutism examples people like to throw here, sacrificing a chicken sandwich is still an incredibly simple thing to do to address one's hypocrisy relative to said examples.

My personal take on hypocrisy? I havent met any one person in my life who wasnt a hypocrite on some fashion. Still, that doesnt mean that one shouldn't strive not to be one, especially when confronted/knowledge on the issue hand, especially so.

A personal anecdote. I'm only part of the LGBTQ community as an ally and when the CfA drama was revealed they asked of me to not support explicit establishments/organizations harming their livelihood. I agreed and have kept that stance since and not only that it is incredibly simple to keep that stance.

It's not used to detract from the topic at all. If someone says "this one decision makes you a piece of shit" then it's completely on topic to point out how that poster is likely being a hypocrite by making excuses to support other companies that are just as problematic in different areas.

Again, not using Amazon is easy. Not purchasing Apple products is easy. Anyone who argues otherwise is making excuses, and if those same people are calling people a piece of shit for eating a chicken sandwich, then they deserve to be called out for it.

My point is that everyone supports some business that's problematic in some way. Those people don't get to call other people a piece of shit for doing the same thing with a different business just because they support this specific issue more than they support other issues.

I mean, just look at the post above yours. 10 days ago a poster was all "I wish there was a Chik-Fil-A closer to me, it's tasty" and now they're actively calling for the banning of anyone who eats at Chik-Fil-A. Posters like that deserved to be called out for being hypocrite ass holes.

Why not? Not all issues are created equal. I'm not of the mind to tell my gay friends about their concern about CfA is somehow less important than buying smartphones from Apple due to Chinese labor conditions. That's nonsensical.

What you insist leads people to be lethargic on addressing issues instead of calling out what can improved when it can be called out.

I'm not telling you to do that, I'm saying other people have no right to call someone a piece of shit for supporting a business when they themselves likely support a different shitty business and make excuses for it. We have people in this thread, saying that LGBT people who go to Chik-Fil-A are "pieces of trash". Like come the fuck on, have some perspective and understand that not every single issue is all or nothing, and that buying a chicken sandwich does not make you a shitty person.

You can choose to support and not support whatever businesses you want. You don't have the right to reduce someone else entire character to them being a piece of trash because they don't adhere to your exact moral standing on a very specific topic.

And again why not? And again, I'm not going to tell LGBTQ folk in policing their language against CfA becuase a number of them might happen to have IPhones.

I'm not going to tell black people to police their language because some number of them happens to shop from Amazon.

I'm not going to tell women to police language on addressing rape because some number of them go to Walmart.

Again, what you insist breeds lethargic inaction to address issues becuase, as we both agree, everyone is a hypocrite. It does literally nothing but muddy conversation and delay/halt potential action in pointing out that useless piece of trivia.

Why do you keep saying the bolded as if I'm in any way saying that's something you should do? I'm not telling you to say or do anything to anyone. I'm saying that a person has no right to call someone else a piece of shit for eating a chicken sandwich.

Everyone is a hypocrite to certain degrees, yes. What's your point? Because mine is you don't have a right to reduce someones entire character to them being a piece of trash based on one very specific action regarding a very specific topic when you are likely engaging in similar behaviour with similar consequences. As I have said over and over.

The 3 examples you've quoted aren't relevant because that's not what's happening here. I'm not asking anyone to police their language against CFA, I'm saying they need to not reduce someones entire character to "a piece of trash" because they bought something from CFA. It would be like you calling your friends a piece of shit for buying an iPhone, regardless of their stance on any other number of political topics.

And I'm saying that people can call people shit/"a piece of trash" if they feel invested enough on a particular issue, and they dont have to suffer some obtuse cognitive dissonance just because of some useless whataboutism fallacy.

It's why I keep bringing up the parts you bolded in my post. No one is perfect. Attempting to silence people in calling out injustices because they participate in some other unrelated injustice does literally nothing but hamper tackling injustice in general.

Again, if my gay friend wants to call people who purchase from CfA pieces of shit, I'm not going to play some hypocrisy checker and tell them to stop.

I'm not silencing anyone at all, where am I doing that? Saying you can't reduce an entire persons character to "a piece of shit" because of one specific decision on a specific topic isn't trying to silence them from sharing their opinions and feelings on the topic as a whole.

How are you not getting what I'm saying. It's like calling someone a piece of shit for shopping at Amazon or buying an iPhone, regardless of their stance on all other political topics. You don't get to make assumptions on a persons entire character because of a decision like that. Call out injustice all you want, but that's not what's happening in this thread and it has never been what I was arguing about.

You just said it yourself, "no one is perfect", so you don't get the right to call someone a piece of shit for not being perfect. If someone can say "If you eat at Chik-Fil-A then you are a piece of trash, no exceptions", as has been done in this thread, then I can call them a piece of shit for shopping at Amazon. Do you think it's fair of me to call you a piece of shit for shopping at Amazon? Do you think I'm a piece of shit because I have an iPhone?

And again, why not? Do you honestly think we live in a world of civil discourse? Be it a chicken sandwich to presidential elections, the reality of this world isn't civil.

And also again, if the gay man owns an Apple IPhone and calls CfA customers pieces of shit for funding an organization that directly impact his life negatively in explicit fashion, I'm not going to be the one to point out he has an IPhone. Are you?

You're being purposefully dense here now. You're ignoring my actual argument and trying to twist it into something else entirely.

Hardly, your form of argument is literally an analogue to "both sides" in nation politics. Being the "moderate", being the "civil", doesnt do anything but maintain the status quo. And do keep in mind the goal is to change the status quo.

My argument is not both sides at all.

If I met one of your gay friends for the first time, saw they had an iPhone and, without knowing anything else about them, said "You're a piece of shit. Anyone who owns an iPhone is a piece of shit, no exceptions or excuses" would that be a fair or reasonable thing for me to say?

That's not a "both sides" argument, it's a comparison. I'm really not even sure you know what "both sides" means because it's not in any way relevant to anything I've said. I'm not saying "Chik-Fil-A are bad, sure, but Apple are just as bad". I'm saying you can't call someone else a piece of shit based on a very specific action like buying chicken sandwich. That one action does not define who they are as a person, just like buying an iPhone or shopping at Amazon does not define who they are as a person.

If you felt strongly about it sure. Then obviously the conversation will go into the 'why' of things and that's where we achieve the avenue/potential for change.

And if you dont want to make conversation then you'd still be entitled to free speech and whatnot.

No, the answer is not "sure", the answer is no. No matter how strongly I feel about an issue, I don't get to make assumptions about a persons entire character based on one single purchasing decision. No one does. You can criticise the decision, but you absolutely do not get to say that on the whole they are a piece of shit or a terrible person. That has nothing to do with free speech, it's about understanding that a single purchasing decision does not define a person, and you are completely unreasonable if you think otherwise. It is absolutely absurd to try and claim that a persons entire character can be defined by the purchase of a chicken sandwich.

And I don’t know about you, but if someone jumped straight to calling me a piece of trash for owning an iPhone I wouldn’t be willing to have any sort of conversation with that person.

Your idealism is pitiful. The world doesnt operate on "I dont get" or "you dont get", bad stuff happens and you deal with it.

If you get called a piece of shit you deal with it, you can either shrug it off, argue it, accept it, whatever. Fact of the matter is progress doesnt happen because you're polite, it's definitely a nice ideal, but that's not the reality of 2019.

I have absolutely no idea how you're not getting my point. I can't break it down any more than I have.

[bork]

"Hey you guys! I'm a progressive leftist and an ally! Don't touch my fast food chicken sandwich tho! Everyone has their limits!"

It's always good to know how weak some peoples' resolve really is.

I don't think you understand the difference between leftists and liberals.

You're strong with the smokescreens. My statement has absolutely nothing to do with liberals. Point is, you're not an ally.

Ally for what exactly?

 

[Lonewulfeus]

"Hey you guys! I'm a progressive leftist and an ally! Don't touch my fast food chicken sandwich tho! Everyone has their limits!"

It's always good to know how weak some peoples' resolve really is.

I don't think you understand the difference between leftists and liberals.

You're strong with the smokescreens. My statement has absolutely nothing to do with liberals. Point is, you're not an ally.

Ally for what exactly?

 

Hidden Lemon is definitely gonna catch a perm from the newly empowered mods.  So is Tiger Priest.

[bork]

Hidden Lemon is definitely gonna catch a perm from the newly empowered mods.  So is Tiger Priest.

I love how the argument boils down to:

Hidden Lemon: buying a chicken sandwich does not make you a shitty person.

Era:  

[bork]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-is-chick-fil-a-popular.155785/page-7

I use to eat there often until I learned I had diabetes. I guess that's my reasons for not eating there anymore...

[NekoFever]

You'd think a trailer for a YouTube series about classic tech wouldn't be controversial, but by the end of page 1 someone's found a PewDiePie tweet and the host is an Uncle Tom.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/trailer-for-new-mkbhd-show-called-retro-tech-a-look-back-at-the-hottest-tech-from-decades-past.155711/

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/nov/24/i-live-as-a-feminist-but-im-tired-of-being-so-furious-all-the-time-mariella-frostrup

linking to known alt-right hate site

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

Probably because it comes across like he’s afraid to act “too black,” and he basically took up for PewDiePie when he said the n-word. He puts me in the mind of someone who’s afraid to rock the boat, like he’d rather be viewed as the cool black guy to his white buddies instead of one who will call them out on their problematic behavior. Basically he seems like someone who pretends to be way above it all, but it’s not that, it’s just cowardice.

So yeah, he shouldn’t be an inspiration for young black kids. Because he never really acknowledges anything that could remotely make his predominately white base uncomfortable.

nepenthe in the transageddon thread annihilated

[Pissy F Benny]

You'd think a trailer for a YouTube series about classic tech wouldn't be controversial, but by the end of page 1 someone's found a PewDiePie tweet and the host is an Uncle Tom.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/trailer-for-new-mkbhd-show-called-retro-tech-a-look-back-at-the-hottest-tech-from-decades-past.155711/

I think he was on Joe rogan once too, so he’s basically a non blind Clayton bigsby 

[porkbun]

big yikes

https://www.resetera.com/threads/i-have-bpd-and-i-am-about-to-go-through-a-breakup-anyone-dealt-with-this-before.155911/

Op conveniently leaving out a significant detail...

I don't think it's true that you will be alone without her. You have Resetera! You have us. We can help

 

[Great Rumbler]

Probably because it comes across like he’s afraid to act “too black,” and he basically took up for PewDiePie when he said the n-word. He puts me in the mind of someone who’s afraid to rock the boat, like he’d rather be viewed as the cool black guy to his white buddies instead of one who will call them out on their problematic behavior. Basically he seems like someone who pretends to be way above it all, but it’s not that, it’s just cowardice.

So yeah, he shouldn’t be an inspiration for young black kids. Because he never really acknowledges anything that could remotely make his predominately white base uncomfortable.

nepenthe in the transageddon thread annihilated

REE trying to tell a POC how to act and what to think? You hate to see it.

[Crumb]

A black man really can't get ahead on ERA.

[FStop7]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/til-george-clooney-spent-his-nespresso-paycheck-on-a-spy-satellite-to-keep-tabs-on-omar-al-bashir.155839/page-3#post-26915994

Kirblar eating shit is the best Black Friday deal of all

Bonus: Clowns stroking out with rage over Ewoks

https://www.resetera.com/threads/beloved-iconic-character-from-the-original-trilogy-to-return-in-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-see-staff-post.155944/

[Klelk]

They really need to have a separate forum/containment zone for all the Star Wars/Marvel/superhero crap

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

Probably because it comes across like he’s afraid to act “too black,” and he basically took up for PewDiePie when he said the n-word. He puts me in the mind of someone who’s afraid to rock the boat, like he’d rather be viewed as the cool black guy to his white buddies instead of one who will call them out on their problematic behavior. Basically he seems like someone who pretends to be way above it all, but it’s not that, it’s just cowardice.

So yeah, he shouldn’t be an inspiration for young black kids. Because he never really acknowledges anything that could remotely make his predominately white base uncomfortable.

nepenthe in the transageddon thread annihilated

REE trying to tell a POC how to act and what to think? You hate to see it.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

I feel like the entire marketing campaign for the new Star wars shit is "cute shit" for people to meme.

I think more accurately its "cute shit" to sell toy lines, because nobody was interested in buying finn / rey / poe shit the last 2 times, so double down on babyoda, bb8 and the pixar logo

[clothedmacuser]

This is the most blatant example of performative wokeness I've seen yet. I don't understand why people lie about this stuff. Is it for the back pats? Do they feel like they are scoring points?

Not yet banned?  That's a bad word on Era.


but lawl.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-is-chick-fil-a-popular.155785/post-26913562

 

[Straight Edge]

I don't fucking care what you consider a spoiler or not. I don't watch the trailers or tv spots, I have keywords blocked on Youtube and other sites, as many others do to avoid this kind of shit.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

User Banned (1 Week): Arguing in bad faith surrounding concerns of bigotry

He was banned for dismissing bigotry, that bigotry was defending chik fil a. Defending their bigoted views is the same as visiting a chik fil a. Going to a chik fil a is defending their bigoted ass views. It's not slick to sugar coat that shit.

NSA banned 

That was a quick fall from grace.

[NekoFever]

I don't fucking care what you consider a spoiler or not. I don't watch the trailers or tv spots, I have keywords blocked on Youtube and other sites, as many others do to avoid this kind of shit.

 

If he thinks those precautions are a reasonable response to the possibility that he might find out that someone is in a movie, perhaps a pop culture discussion forum (nominally) where Star Wars threads pop up daily isn't the place for him?

[FStop7]

is there a way to give an entire forum a wedgie

[venereology]

is there a way to give an entire forum a wedgie

openly spoil star wars, apparently

[Transhuman]

User Banned (1 Week): Arguing in bad faith surrounding concerns of bigotry

He was banned for dismissing bigotry, that bigotry was defending chik fil a. Defending their bigoted views is the same as visiting a chik fil a. Going to a chik fil a is defending their bigoted ass views. It's not slick to sugar coat that shit.

NSA banned 

That was a quick fall from grace.

Not to defend that poster, but how is that bannable? Even when resetera does right, they do wrong

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

is there a way to give an entire forum a wedgie

I mean... you know. Life. The life they live. On a daily basis.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

Not to defend that poster, but how is that bannable? Even when resetera does right, they do wrong

Reciepts on the poster saying anyone who east at chik fil a should be banned just over a week ago saying how great their customer service is

The system will break and auto-ignore your own ass

No but you see, he changed his opinion in the last 10 days, so he’s fine. It’s just that going forward, anyone who hold the opinion he held 10 days ago should be instantly banned and shouldn’t be allowed the opportunity to change their opinion like he had.

[Transhuman]

Yeah but he got banned for "arguing in bad faith". Just because he's a hypocrite doesn't mean he doesn't believe what he's saying. Remember when Amirox would talk about how disgusting pedophiles were? He wasn't wrong...

[Propagandhim]

User Banned (1 Week): Arguing in bad faith surrounding concerns of bigotry

He was banned for dismissing bigotry, that bigotry was defending chik fil a. Defending their bigoted views is the same as visiting a chik fil a. Going to a chik fil a is defending their bigoted ass views. It's not slick to sugar coat that shit.

NSA banned 

That was a quick fall from grace.

Not to defend that poster, but how is that bannable? Even when resetera does right, they do wrong

Because he previously saying he wanted to eat at Chik Fil A in a different thread:  https://www.resetera.com/threads/every-single-fast-food-restaurant-can-learn-from-chik-fil-a-in-regards-to-service.153828/page-3#post-26586688

 
In this thread he's taking the opposite side for the luls.

[PogiJones]

Yeah but he got banned for "arguing in bad faith". Just because he's a hypocrite doesn't mean he doesn't believe what he's saying. Remember when Amirox would talk about how disgusting pedophiles were? He wasn't wrong...

Being surprised that the mods assumed bad intent and stated the ascribed intent as fact 

[Transhuman]

Maybe he just forgot he said it. Search your heart and ask what's more likely, that he's a troll, or that he's really stupid and doesn't have the self-control to stand by his own convictions.

[Transhuman]

I can't look through their history without an account, but 3k posts is a pretty long con. What's more likely- that they're stirring up anger on the site just for the hell of it? Or it's just performative wokeness to fit in and they're just some pathetic fat dumb fuck who loves burgers? I know which I find more believable.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

making the bire defend era moderation

[Joe Molotov]

Has anyone got banned over ChickenGate yet?

[Transhuman]

who care

It just pains me to see that you guys think that poster is knowingly machiavellian instead of just being a short-sighted halfwit.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Maybe i'm biased though. I want the second one to be true because it's funnier to me : (

[close]

[jorma]

who care

It just pains me to see that you guys think that poster is knowingly machiavellian instead of just being a short-sighted halfwit.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Maybe i'm biased though. I want the second one to be true because it's funnier to me : (

[close]

The funniest part is actually that it's impossible to tell, both for us and for ree.

like that other dude, DeusOcha, trolling or just really  thick?

[Straight Edge]

Often I can’t tell why a poster’s comments got them banned until i research who they were replying to.

[Transhuman]

"You do such a disservice when you lie about things like this"

-Jussie Smollett

[Lonewulfeus]

who care

It just pains me to see that you guys think that poster is knowingly machiavellian instead of just being a short-sighted halfwit.

And I think your sarcasm/troll detector is broken.

Dude posted the most possible over the top anti-CFA stuff you could imagine.. posted about how the mods should label all CFA eating posters so that others could auto-ignore them...

Less than 2 weeks after talking about how much they like CFA, have eaten there, and wish one was closer..

U R Cute but dumb

I’m with transhuman on this one, I think NSA was so caught up in being as woke as possible that he forgot what he said 10 days prior.  It’s almost like resetera has cultivated a user base that knows you can’t be on the opposite side of any issue and dude just took it too far.  3000 posts over 2 years isn’t a troll, that’s a true believer.

[Tripon]

It'll be nice if performative wokeness meant you're helping people get into housing they can afford, or helping people get the care they need, or just helping people. Instead of you know, what its currently is.

[nachobro]

these morons need a SEE STAFF POST on a star wars thread
https://www.resetera.com/threads/beloved-iconic-character-from-the-original-trilogy-to-return-in-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-see-staff-post.155944/page-9#post-26916233

[Transhuman]

It'll be nice if performative wokeness meant you're helping people get into housing they can afford, or helping people get the care they need, or just helping people. Instead of you know, what its currently is.

Demonstrative wokeness is far less thankful.

[Straight Edge]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/the-british-film-institute-the-50-best-films-of-2019.155994/

Joker is

spoiler (click to show/hide)

39.

[close]

Avengers Endgame is

spoiler (click to show/hide)

not on the list.

[close]