What'll happen if Obama and Hillary split Texas and Ohio? <-- Obama nooo :(

[Mr. Gundam]

We voted and passed the following resolutions.

1. End the federal income tax and replace it with nothing

 

mmmmmm, yes I bet you love throwing your money at the government to pay for the war and the national debt.

Maybe not, but I don't mind paying for other national programs.

[The Fake Shemp]

Mandark - I don't think that's too much difference in what you said and when I spoke about folks being "subconsciously" racist and/or sexist.  There are a ton of white folks that parade themselves as not racist ("I have a black friend!"), but they're the same folks who auto-lock their car when a black person walks by (I saw my mother do this once).

The other thing is that I think your view is a tad tainted by geography.  Going to some backwater regions of this grand country has opened my eyes to a lot of ignorance.  Hell, when my father took us on a family vacation that went through some parts of the eastern shore and mountainous part of Virginia (and West Virginia), we got stares because he and my stepmom are an interracial couple.

This was just four years ago.

I really do not think America has changed enough to welcome either Democratic candidate.  Obama is the best bet, because with that "open-minded" middle of the road white voter, he could potentially win them over depending on how he runs his campaign.  But like you said, he'd have to try real hard to tip toe that line.

[Human Snorenado]

...I was going to start pointing out how stupid that statement is, but then I remembered we had a thread for that already. This one is for real candidates and real issues.

Yes, a thread THAT SHOULD BE IN THE HALL OF SHAME.

Shame on you, William Federwang.

[FlameOfCallandor]

There are a ton of white folks that parade themselves as not racist ("I have a black friend!"), but they're the same folks who auto-lock their car when a black person walks by (I saw my mother do this once)..

Your mom sounds like a regular klan member. I bet she burns crosses on a regular basis.

[FlameOfCallandor]

...I was going to start pointing out how stupid that statement is, but then I remembered we had a thread for that already. This one is for real candidates and real issues.

Tell me what you think your federal income tax money actually goes to pay for.

[Human Snorenado]

There are a ton of white folks that parade themselves as not racist ("I have a black friend!"), but they're the same folks who auto-lock their car when a black person walks by (I saw my mother do this once)..

Your mom sounds like a regular klan member. I bet she burns crosses on a regular basis.

You should know, amirite?

Racist.

[The Fake Shemp]

Your mom sounds like a regular klan member. I bet she burns crosses on a regular basis.

No, she's your basic, upper middle class white female in 40-50 demographic.  And if you don't think there's a ton of folks like her, you're in for a wicked surprise.

I think my generation is ready for a black or female president, but I don't think this generation has the guts or passion to really rally behind either candidate and push them ahead.  We're too busy planning raids on Scientologists and playing WoW.  Yes, I know the youth turnout has increased, but it could be a lot, lot more.

[Mr. Gundam]

...I was going to start pointing out how stupid that statement is, but then I remembered we had a thread for that already. This one is for real candidates and real issues.

Tell me what you think your federal income tax money actually goes to pay for.

A good chunk (just over 50% if I remember correctly) DOES go towards the miltary, but the rest helps run the country. I'd rather see tax reforms instead of getting rid of it completely.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Reagan did a study in the 80s and found that over half of it just goes to pay for the interest on the national debt. Thats your tax dollars at work, paying for the interest on out debt.

[y2kev]

I can see not voting (even though it may ultimately screw you), but voting for someone who is diametrically opposed to your political philosophy because Hillary is "dishonest" or (worse) "annoying" is outright stupid.

I know a shitton of "youths" who didn't vote for Kerry in 2004 because he didn't excite them or speak directly to kids. Now all they do is bitch about Alito and Roberts. They are going to be there for a VERY long time.

[Mandark]

Willco:  Yeah.  I learned years ago that open racism wasn't just a relic documented in history textbooks.  I've been to places where I've been an exotic minority because I'm Jewish (half-assed, light-skinned Jew that I am).

I think Obama's got himself in one of the two sweet spots for a black candidate.  You can either be the young, accomplished, post-racial optimist or the steady, paternal authority type (Colin Powell, David Palmer).

Mayor Williams was sort of in the first group, although he was a lot more Carlton Banks than Obama is.



FoC: Get out of here with that shit.  Reagan did a study?  Come on!

[Himu]

I have a couple of thoughts to throw out...

If this thing comes down to Superdelegates and they go to the side of whomever is actually behind in popular vote or delegate count... will there be as much outcry from the Democratic party as there was in Gore/Bush election?

Also, without doing any real research...is it me or are elections more and more becoming...

Hispanic vote >>> all others

I know the popular sediment with the Bush wins was Evangelicals, but I believe he also won the hispanic vote by a decent majority. Which in those elections I believe could be looked at as the "swing" votes. The Hispanic vote is obviously becoming a major factor, and is the one group of voters that are growing exponentially every election. Which ever party can really firm up the Hispanic base, can really take a grip in future elections.

I've noticed this too. We need to get the Hispanics out of here amirite

[APF]

How popular can a sediment be, really?

[Van Cruncheon]

...I was going to start pointing out how stupid that statement is, but then I remembered we had a thread for that already. This one is for real candidates and real issues.

Tell me what you think your federal income tax money actually goes to pay for.

tell me why you think the solution to an infection is amputation

[Van Cruncheon]

genghis cohen victory with ko

[MrAngryFace]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/118240

http://slate.com/id/2185278/

[TVC15]

I know, MAF.  The problem is that these victories give Hillary a new lease on life, meaning she will be around for at least another month to rouse up her supporters even more and do more shady campaigning that will hurt the campaign of whomever gets the nom in the end.  Even though, by the numbers, it appears impossible for her to win, that doesn't mean she won't be doing damage.

[MrAngryFace]

No I know all about that. She's not only working to kill our chance in the end game, she is killing her chance of another shot in 4 years.

[Phoenix Dark]

Having Harson, Stooge, et. al. freak out to the point that they were arguing over delegate counts before Texas results were even in was euphoria.

I will 100% vote for the Democrat this November, but when I see a liberal say they won't vote for Hillary and will instead  vote for McCain (as opposed to not voting), my skin crawls.

The tears were tasty indeed.

[ToxicAdam]

All the gaffers in the Iraq threads saying how they hate the war, it's ruining our country, it has to stop now. Fast forward to the primaries, where Obama loses a few to Hillary.

"That's it! In November, I am voting McCain! Fuck Hillary!"


Maddening.

[ToxicAdam]

I wonder how that feels for the enlightened Obama supporter, to share ranks with the barbaric frat boys and fainting cultists that litter his campaign stops. It must make them pause for a minute.

[Human Snorenado]

All the gaffers in the Iraq threads saying how they hate the war, it's ruining our country, it has to stop now. Fast forward to the primaries, where Obama loses a few to Hillary.

"That's it! In November, I am voting McCain! Fuck Hillary!"


Maddening.

What about the real liberals that will vote for Nader?  :p

[Human Snorenado]

I wonder how that feels for the enlightened Obama supporter, to share ranks with the barbaric frat boys and fainting cultists that litter his campaign stops. It must make them pause for a minute.

I wonder how it felt to pull the lever for Hillary and ally yourself with a legion of vacuous dittoheads?  Feel like coming home, eh?

[ToxicAdam]

I'm the tjhooker of political threads. I haven't voted since the 2000 primary.



MEGATON

[Human Snorenado]

I'm the tjhooker of political threads. I haven't voted since the 2000 primary.



MEGATON

 

[TVC15]

All the gaffers in the Iraq threads saying how they hate the war, it's ruining our country, it has to stop now. Fast forward to the primaries, where Obama loses a few to Hillary.

"That's it! In November, I am voting McCain! Fuck Hillary!"


Maddening.

Are people actually saying that?  I am assuming that most spurned supporters will just not vote at all.

[y2kev]

All the gaffers in the Iraq threads saying how they hate the war, it's ruining our country, it has to stop now. Fast forward to the primaries, where Obama loses a few to Hillary.

"That's it! In November, I am voting McCain! Fuck Hillary!"


Maddening.

dear jesus, yes yes yes. I completely agree.

[Mupepe]

Breaking News: GAF is full of shitheads. 


Anyone surprised?

[ToxicAdam]

Are people actually saying that?  I am assuming that most spurned supporters will just not vote at all.

That would be th right tact. But yea, there were 3 or 4 in the huge political thread that say they will vote McCain if Hillary wins. They weren't the usual left-GAF .. they seemed like all political newbies.


I guess that could be a dangerous offshoot of Obama attracting all these new "non-voters". They may just vote against Hillary in November out of spite, if Obama never got in the race they probably wouldn't have voted at all.

[Mandark]

Any successful product, including a campaign, will produce a large chunk of mouthbreathers who define their identity through allegiance to the brand.  That goes double for young people.

Unless there's a chunk of the coalition that has some really rotten political beliefs and is big enough to make demands of the candidate, who cares?  I got over the "People I don't rate like things I do rate" crisis after denis580 spammed GAF with Dynasty Warrior topics years ago.

[y2kev]

You're forgetting the typical rallying cries, Toxic.

Hillary "has lied," will "do anything to win," "is dirty," "is not presidential," etc.

[Bloodwake]

I'd rather begrudgingly vote for Hillary than give McCain a vote ANY DAY.

[Mupepe]

You're forgetting the typical rallying cries, Toxic.

Hillary "has lied," will "do anything to win," "is dirty," "is not presidential," etc.

Hey now.

I think she's a power hungry liar and ideally I wouldn't like to see her in office.  However, if it comes down to it, I'll back her.

[y2kev]

I think those traits define all politicians!

If Obama wasn't saying WE ARE THE ONES WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR people would be flinging the same shit at him.

[Mupepe]

I think those traits define all politicians!

If Obama wasn't saying WE ARE THE ONES WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR people would be flinging the same shit at him.

I'm sorry, a politician should at least be able to hide it well.  She's blatantly lied and been called out during her campaign.  Most politicians can at least keep it hidden until they've actually won the Presidency. 

[APF]

Like when Obama lies regarding whether or not his campaign heads were lobbyists?

[Eric P]

i would like to state i'm happy to see that the religious right hasn't co-opted the right again

or at least so blatantly.

now, hopefully mccain will stop trying to grab them as a base and just run without.

[Mandark]

i would like to state i'm happy to see that the religious right hasn't co-opted the right again

or at least so blatantly.

now, hopefully mccain will stop trying to grab them as a base and just run without.

Unfortunately...

[FlameOfCallandor]

...I was going to start pointing out how stupid that statement is, but then I remembered we had a thread for that already. This one is for real candidates and real issues.

Tell me what you think your federal income tax money actually goes to pay for.

tell me why you think the solution to an infection is amputation

The solution to out of control government spending is to give them less money. Is that too hard for you to understand? Or do you like giving uncle sam 30% of YOUR earnings.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

MY earnings? Are those from MY job? The one that I drive to on government-built roads in a car filled with government-subsidized gas, where the cafeteria serves government-subsized food, that doesn't kill me because a government agency over sees the quality? I know you think you're some kind of independent heroic ur-man, but pretending that your money is yours and yours alone is distinguished mentally-challenged.

NOW KINDLY PEDDLE YOUR SHIT SOMEWHERE ELSE.

[T234]

Patel

[Mandark]

Also, debt service is ~9% of the budget, not half.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I know you think you're some kind of independent heroic ur-man, but pretending that your money is yours and yours alone is distinguished mentally-challenged.

Then whose money is my money?

[FlameOfCallandor]

If  we got rid of the income tax all you fegs could still give the federal government your money, but something tells me you wouldnt.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

The federal income tax has nothing to do with OBama, Hillary, or the Democratic nomination, so let's go back to the original topic lest FOC get himself banned in his zealousness.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I was regaling you guys with my texas caucus story, I believe you singled out the tax issue.

[bud]

let's get back on topic

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/05/obama-camp-whats-clinton-hiding/

Obama camp: What's Clinton hiding'
Posted: 02:40 PM ET

The Obama campaign is taking aim at Clinton over her tax returns.

(CNN) – Barack Obama's campaign took fresh aim at Hillary Clinton Wednesday for refusing to release her tax returns, asking in a memo circulated to reporters, "What does Clinton have to hide?"

"In the face of her unwillingness to release her tax returns, Hillary Clinton has made the false case in this campaign that she is more electable because she has been fully vetted," the memo stated. "When it comes to her personal finances, Senator Clinton’s refusal to release her taxes returns denies the media and the American people the opportunity to even begin that process."

David Axelrod, the Obama campaign's chief strategist, also said in a conference call with reporters Wednesday that Clinton has a history of non-disclosure and is the least-vetted candidate in the presidential race.

Clinton had said she will only release her tax returns if she captures the Democratic nomination, though her communications director, Howard Wolfson, issued a statement Wednesday indicating she would do so around April 15.

"Over 20 years of the Clintons' tax returns are in the public domain," he said. "Their tax returns since they left the White House will be made available on or around April 15. This information will be in addition to 15 years of uninterrupted public financial disclosure reports."

"Instead of making false attacks, we urge Senator Obama to release all relevant financial and other information related to indicted political fixer Tony Rezko," Wolfson also said.

Obama, who released his 2006 tax returns last April, stepped up his pressure on Clinton to release her documents early last month after it was revealed the New York senator loaned her campaign $5 million.

"I think the American people deserve to know where you get your income from," he said. "I've disclosed my income tax returns. I think we set the bar in terms of transparency and disclosure that has been a consistent theme of my campaign and my career in politics.”

The New York senator did file a Senate disclosure form last May that revealed the Clinton's income for the previous year was upwards of $12 million. But, according to the Wall Street Journal, a tax return would present a more comprehensive account of the Clinton's income, and include revenue sources that aren't required on Senate disclosure forms.

"Though her campaign has tried to kick the issue down the road, Democratic voters deserve to know, right now, why it is she is hiding the information in her tax returns from last year," the Obama memo stated. "The Clinton campaign has said that they have released copious amounts of financial information but there are many questions about their private dealings that could be answered in their tax returns but not in the information that is currently available

[Mandark]

So anyway, I would have rather McCain took the nomination in 2000 than in 2008.

Back when he was lobbing bombs at Robertson, Falwell, and BJU, a win would have been widely interpreted as weakening the Christian right.  Sort of the opposite of the post-2004 election talk of "moral values" voters.

But now he's acting like they have to be accommodated, and even if he believes in his heart of hearts that they're wrong and hateful and intolerant they still have as much of a claim on the GOP as they did before.  Though there seems to have been a shift away from the old guard of top-down leadership to a more networked, grassroots thing.