Sales Bore | Media Create And Other Sale Numbers |OT|

[archnemesis]

VGChartz recently got a mention in Forbes and I heard industry people using it during last year's E3.

Edit: It seems like pilonv1 and I are browsing the same GAF thread.

[Momo]

Just Forbes

http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2012/05/25/bloody-hypocrite-schillings-38-studios-fires-413/2/

 

[maxy]

Of course they will get quoted,NPD public data availability has gone to shit.

Who cares,real data is moving fast towards digital anyway.

[originalz]

Yeah, NPD just keeps getting worse and worse with their paranoia, and apparently they're not much better if professional sources have to use the chartzzzzzzz.  Like knowing the exact numbers of a few games or systems is really going to stop someone from buying the subscription.

[Tasty]

They've published a lot more than I was expecting. For your sanity, do not look for all those games, lol.

Edit: Oh shit, El Shaddai's a enormous bomba then. I'm surprised it's even getting a social game.

Yes, El Shaddai was a very, very, very big bomba.  Anyway, I'll poke through that list and see if I can find any standouts.

El Shaddai deserved to bomb after what Ignition did to Arc Rise Fantasia. Which is like a D-list RPG anyways but not even it deserved this. Also I remember Shane being all "Oh we'll do it right, you can trust us, it's totally better off with us than Xseed who we outbid for it."

* Andrex wishes to express that he is deeply sympathetic to any Ignition staff you lost their jobs at the expense of El Shaddai bombing.

Edit- Wow this post was old, last time I trust that NEW! link on thread titles.

[Tasty]

Oh wow, they're finished? Huh.

So happy Xseed is not only around but seems to be doing well. Landing TLS from Nintendo must have been a kinda big deal for them.

Wait, did ARF outsell El Shaddai? Wiki states it sold 21,000 first week in NA. Which actually... is higher than I expected, honestly.

[Bebpo]

Yeah, NPD just keeps getting worse and worse with their paranoia, and apparently they're not much better if professional sources have to use the chartzzzzzzz.  Like knowing the exact numbers of a few games or systems is really going to stop someone from buying the subscription.

Agreed.  NPD drove the world to chartz and what a fucked up immature industry we have where multi-billion dollar companies have to rely on some 15 years olds BS number site because NPD is so afraid that people might see REAL NUMBERS.  Jesus Christ.  We have so many problems in this industry and nothing is ever getting any better.   

[Tasty]

That's what I've been saying Bebpo.

Although I might have said it in a slightly crazier, immature way.

[pilonv1]

I was about to bust some truth bombs in here but I see Andrex is back so I better keep my secrets to the super secret forum

[Tasty]

I think I'm over that, or at least, better at not overreacting about it.

For now I'll concentrate on building my own super secret network of sources.

[Shaka Khan]

Welcome back, kiddoboo.

[Tasty]

<3 Thanks. My posting may be erratic for a while but it's nice to be back.

[Himu]

how much did d3 sell?

[originalz]

Ignition is/was terrible.  Usually when those little guys set out to do localizations, they have a lateness problem, but not a quality problem.  But man oh man, Ignition did some awful localization work.  So happy they're basically done.

Their responses to the hate were great as well.  "Yeah, I know, this last game wasn't that good, but we had budget problems and etc etc you can trust us that our next project is getting our full support and won't have any localization issues!"  I guess it's a kind of 'fool me once...' situation.

"Don't worry guys KOF12 will get a patch real soon which will make online play smooth as butter!"

[bork]

Ignition is/was terrible.  Usually when those little guys set out to do localizations, they have a lateness problem, but not a quality problem.  But man oh man, Ignition did some awful localization work.  So happy they're basically done.

Their responses to the hate were great as well.  "Yeah, I know, this last game wasn't that good, but we had budget problems and etc etc you can trust us that our next project is getting our full support and won't have any localization issues!"  I guess it's a kind of 'fool me once...' situation.

"Don't worry guys KOF12 will get a patch real soon which will make online play smooth as butter!"

To be fair, Ignition was the only reason KOF XII even got patched at all- yeah the patches did next to nothing to help, but that game had a lot more problems than just the online anyway.   

All I really remember was rolling my eyes at Shane Bettenhausen shilling KOF XII and Samurai Spirits Sen (which they ended up not releasing), trying to make what was the equivalent to a retail beta-test for KOF XIII and a pure-shit 3D fighter look good.

[AdmiralViscen]

I've never seen the show but I've heard tons of people talk about it, so I'm surprised that the Game of Thrones game is bombing so hard. Would have probably been better if it was developed by their Japanese team aside from some random western team, the actual game looked like your shitty generic westaboo RPG.

Hey, it's Westeros

[maxy]

from gaf

http://kanpou.npb.go.jp/20120626/20120626g00138/pdf/20120626g001380148.pdf

Originally found in Japan government "National Printing Bureau" website, the SCE (Sony Computer Entertainment) is reported for having over 94.3 billion Yen deficit in 2011 fiscal year(*).

(*.平成23年4月1日~平成24年3月31日 :2011/04 ~2012/03)

[Tasty]

 

I thought they said it was the only part making a profit? Were they straight up lying?

[Momo]

so whats this bullshit about Dragons Dogma selling 1 million copies? Last time I checked a tracker for it it was bombing

[Trent Dole]

so whats this bullshit about Dragons Dogma selling 1 million copies? Last time I checked a tracker for it it was bombing

Think that's their goal? It's done well in Japan but pretty much tanked over here.

[maxy]

I thought they said it was the only part making a profit? Were they straight up lying?

Did they really say that?

maybe they meant pomfrit

so whats this bullshit about Dragons Dogma selling 1 million copies? Last time I checked a tracker for it it was bombing

Shipped sales

[Momo]

Aah, I see. Going to have some really pissed off distributors/retailers then. Expecting fire sale soon.

[Trent Dole]

June!
01 Lego Batman 2: DC Super Heroes (360, Wii, PS3, NDS, 3DS, PSV, PC)
02 Ghost Recon: Future Soldier (360, PS3, PC)
03 Diablo 3 (PC)
04 Max Payne 3 (360, PS3, PC)
05 NBA 2K12 (360, PS3, Wii, PSP, PS2, PC)
06 Batman: Arkham City (360, PS3, PC)
07 Pokemon Conquest (NDS)
08 Modern Warfare 3 (360, PS3, Wii, PC)
09 Battlefield 3 (360, PS3, PC)
10 The Amazing Spider-Man (360, PS3, 3DS, NDS, Wii)

[The Sceneman]

I really hope Spec Ops: The Line charts in July

[Fifstar]

Hardware from Gaf

Xbox 360: 257K (-49.3%)
Nintendo 3DS: 155K (+8.4%)
Nintendo DS: 150K (-61.1%)
Wii: 95K (-65.2%)
Vita + PSP: ~100K

3DS numbers also seem kinda bad considering how much the DS collapsed. I guess the imminent XL launch explains that to a certain degree, but I'm not sure how much an additional model, that is basically just a bigger version, will really do.

[Owl-faced Wizard]

Only 20m?  I expected more considering people won't shut the hell up about it.

[Fifstar]

Hm, at least regarding the consoles there can be the hope that a new generation might spark interest again. Might be delusional but handhelds look like they are done in the west. I fell that Nintendo mismanaged the 3DS greatly, but that can't explain alone that massive downfall in sales over the years.

[Great Rumbler]

Hm, at least regarding the consoles there can be the hope that a new generation might spark interest again.

Sure it will. The current market is totally saturated, especially with the Xbox360 still being $200 and the PS3 still at $250. Slashing those prices would help, too.

[Tasty]

June!
01 Lego Batman 2: DC Super Heroes (360, Wii, PS3, NDS, 3DS, PSV, PC)
02 Ghost Recon: Future Soldier (360, PS3, PC)
03 Diablo 3 (PC)
04 Max Payne 3 (360, PS3, PC)
05 NBA 2K12 (360, PS3, Wii, PSP, PS2, PC)
06 Batman: Arkham City (360, PS3, PC)
07 Pokemon Conquest (NDS)
08 Modern Warfare 3 (360, PS3, Wii, PC)
09 Battlefield 3 (360, PS3, PC)
10 The Amazing Spider-Man (360, PS3, 3DS, NDS, Wii)

Pokemon on DS still going strong even with a weird spinoff thing. Bodes well for BW2.

[Owl-faced Wizard]

Only 20m?  I expected more considering people won't shut the hell up about it.

Maybe that figure is only for iPad 3... can't remember.
[/quote

Wiki sez 67.1 million (as of 31 March 2012).

[Owl-faced Wizard]

I actually don't think that'll be enough to tell.  I don't think the Wii U is going to do anything - it seems like they created the absolute perfect wrong product for the market with that, so a lack of success there won't indicate much of anything else other than Nintendo is a dumdum.  I think the 3DS will do better than it is, but not a lot better.  The DS and Vita finally dying plus new software plus the XL (though I don't think that was quite the right revision) will prove the doubters and hatas wrong in that the handheld market isn't dead - it's just shrunken into a GBA-sized puddle with no room for anybody but Nintendo.  The 360 and PS3 will ooze along miserably until MS and Sony release their whatevers and  it will probably be too early to make any broad proclamations about the market based on their launch period.  Unless MS and Sony announce platforms that just scream redundance like the Wii U/Vita.

[Great Rumbler]

I'm not completely sure this is just generation fatigue, but I guess we'll find out after another year and a half of horrifyingly bad sales.

Combination of factors, probably. Mediocre economy, aging consoles, saturated market, [relatively] expensive consoles, and smartphone incursion.

From a post I made earlier in this thread:

PS2 - 55 million
Gamecube - 13 million
Xbox - 15 million
Total - 83 million

PS3 - 23 million
Xbox - 37 million
Wii - 43 million
Total - 103 million

It's not quite 1:1 because of the Wii, but even if you drop the Wii's total to that of the Gamecube, it's still not far off from what the last gen totals got up to with $100 price points.

[Eel O'Brian]

It really hit me how quickly dedicated handhelds are dying off during all the iOS July 4th sales. Warner Brothers had all their titles on sale for $.99, so on a whim I picked up both Harry Potter Lego games for a total of $2. They are the EXACT same games as the ones on 3DS and PS Vita. Only those are $20 each. Are the controls optimal? No. But they're good enough, and for a savings of $38 off the pair good enough is...well, good enough. There's no way Sony or Nintendo can compete with that. Nintendo has their chest of franchises, so yeah, they'll squeak by for a while longer, but Sony is absolutely fucked for sure.

[Great Rumbler]

Well, that's one way to make it look good, but if you look at the messy details like 2/3 of last gen's systems being on the market for 4 (xbox) or 5 (gamecube) years versus all three systems being on the market for 6+ years this gen, or that the trend of the last three years has been a massive decline the likes of which we haven't seen in this industry since the early 80s, it doesn't really do much to allay concerns.

Couldn't part of that be attributed to the systems still being over $200? Without dredging through the internet, I imagine both the Gamecube and the Wii, probably the PS2 as well, hit $100 long before the point we're at now.

That aside, the Wii IS part of this current generation and that puts this gen's total well above what last gen managed [which included the PS2 selling far beyond the other two systems, and beyond where this gen is now]. Though a lot of that is thanks to the Wii tapping into an untapped audience that won't be back for next generation, so tempered expectations should certainly be in play.

Oh, and another random tidibt: what about the resurrection of the PC market? I could see that being a potential factor for the decline of the past couple of years and possibly playing a role in how things shake out next generation. So, yeah, tempered expectations and all that.

[Great Rumbler]

but I will say, if it's all so healthy, it's kind of odd that virtually everyone is losing money hand over fist.

Out of control budgets would be on that list somewhere.

[Stoney Mason]

It seems like we have the debate every NPD thread. It's clear that the market has contracted somewhat but the reasons and whether its a permanent decline seem to be where the debates lies. I definitely think the handheld market has contracted because of ipad, and iphones. I think there is still a market for a Nintendo kid oriented hand-held but the Vita's market what little it ever had has been cannibalized to the point where it doesn't have a real mass market place in America. 

I still think part of the reasons the console contraction happened is because of the fad like nature of the Wii and high prices but I definitely believe the casual market has moved on from consoles to simpler, cheaper, and more casual experiences on other devices.

I think that's where a good chunk of the missing money is. The next gen consoles have to adapt to a multi-tiered market. That means a lot of different things.

[Tasty]

It really hit me how quickly dedicated handhelds are dying off during all the iOS July 4th sales. Warner Brothers had all their titles on sale for $.99, so on a whim I picked up both Harry Potter Lego games for a total of $2. They are the EXACT same games as the ones on 3DS and PS Vita. Only those are $20 each. Are the controls optimal? No. But they're good enough, and for a savings of $38 off the pair good enough is...well, good enough. There's no way Sony or Nintendo can compete with that. Nintendo has their chest of franchises, so yeah, they'll squeak by for a while longer, but Sony is absolutely fucked for sure.

There's no way Sony or Nintendo competing with publishers who price their own content stupidly? Because all I'm getting from your post is that Warner Bros. is underpricing on iOS and overpricing on Vita/3DS for the same content.

[cool breeze]

It seems like we have the debate every NPD thread. It's clear that the market has contracted somewhat but the reasons and whether its a permanent decline seem to be where the debates lies. I definitely think the handheld market has contracted because of ipad, and iphones. I think there is still a market for a Nintendo kid oriented hand-held but the Vita's market what little it ever had has been cannibalized to the point where it doesn't have a real mass market place in America. 

I think handhelds are just going the way of arcades in the west.  Between consoles matching (and surpassing) the quality and online play, arcades kinda lost the appeal needed to be a sustainable business.  For most people there isn't really a point to handheld when an iphone is just as good; wherever it falls short, it makes up for in convenience.  I think I'm the weird minority who likes my dedicated gaming handhelds and arcades. 

Kids are another story.  Nintendo is the chuck e cheese in this daft analogy.

[Eel O'Brian]

It really hit me how quickly dedicated handhelds are dying off during all the iOS July 4th sales. Warner Brothers had all their titles on sale for $.99, so on a whim I picked up both Harry Potter Lego games for a total of $2. They are the EXACT same games as the ones on 3DS and PS Vita. Only those are $20 each. Are the controls optimal? No. But they're good enough, and for a savings of $38 off the pair good enough is...well, good enough. There's no way Sony or Nintendo can compete with that. Nintendo has their chest of franchises, so yeah, they'll squeak by for a while longer, but Sony is absolutely fucked for sure.

There's no way Sony or Nintendo competing with publishers who price their own content stupidly? Because all I'm getting from your post is that Warner Bros. is underpricing on iOS and overpricing on Vita/3DS for the same content.

You just keep thinkin', Butch, that's what you're good at. You've got vision, and the rest of the world wears bifocals.

[Owl-faced Wizard]

So ... why are they pricing Lego Harry Potter for iPhone at $2?  Because they can't charge any more?  Yeah.  And $2 is fine ... when you're Lego Harry Potter and everybody will buy you.  You're shit out of luck if you're not targeting the widest possible market with $2 games.   I do think there's an issue for games like Lego Harry Potter ... but it is an issue, and not a clear direction.  Pretty well nobody but Apple is making big money off iDevice games, so it just looks like there are hard times ahead either way and they might ultimately just be devaluing their property.  The market is a real mess.  iDevice triumphalists (and I am not calling you one) remind me a lot of tea partiers.  The parallels are uncanny, actually.

[Positive Touch]

So ... why are they pricing Lego Harry Potter for iPhone at $2?  Because they can't charge any more?  Yeah.  And $2 is fine ... when you're Lego Harry Potter and everybody will buy you.  You're shit out of luck if you're not targeting the widest possible market with $2 games.   I do think there's an issue for games like Lego Harry Potter ... but it is an issue, and not a clear direction.  Pretty well nobody but Apple is making big money off iDevice games, so it just looks like there are hard times ahead either way and they might ultimately just be devaluing their property.  The market is a real mess.  iDevice triumphalists (and I am not calling you one) remind me a lot of tea partiers.  The parallels are uncanny, actually.

ok, go to your room

[Owl-faced Wizard]

You can't make me and I'm right depending on how loosey goosey you get with the terms.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I think that Microsoft and Sony have tapped the $200 and up market dry for some time.  At this point in the game last generation, you'd be able to get a PS2 for $99-129.  Due to the recession and what not, people probably have less money to spend in 2012 than they did in 2006 for video games.   I don't see Microsoft or Sony making any price cuts anytime soon though.

Oh and regarding the Vita, remember that Sony did fuck all to promote the thing when it launched in the US.  Part of it is iOS/Android, sure, but part of it is the red headed stepchild treatment that Sony is giving it.

[Eel O'Brian]

So ... why are they pricing Lego Harry Potter for iPhone at $2?  Because they can't charge any more?

Did you not see where I wrote "July 4th sales," "Warner Brothers had all their titles on sale for $.99," and "both Harry Potter Lego games for a total of $2."  It's like, the first two sentences of the post, too.

They're normally $5 each, which is still $15 less than the 3DS/Vita retail versions (after price drops, those games came out at around $40 each). The average iOS/Android games are priced between $1.99 - $6.99, with a few that are priced higher. Obviously that price point and the .99 sales work out pretty well for some of them, or they wouldn't keep pumping out the games on iTunes/Google Play. The average 3DS/Vita games are (including DL games) $9.99 - 39.99, with a few that are priced lower. They're rarely ever on sale, unless you consider older games being bargained out on sale, and even then the median sale price is above the regular price of iOS/Android titles. Point is, no one can sell a retail cartridge/card game for $5, much less $1, and they can't match the flexible pricing structure of iOS/Android in their digital services, either. They can't compete.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

It will be tough for future generations to see the kind of sales the past two generations have.

If people are going to blow $600-800 on an iPad that plays games, it is going to be harder to justify shelling out another $300-400 (the probably range of launch prices of next gen consoles) for a system.  People don't have that kind of disposable income (most people can barely afford the iPad as it is) to get both.  If it will end up being one or the other for families, it will be a cold, harsh winter for Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft.

[Owl-faced Wizard]

So ... why are they pricing Lego Harry Potter for iPhone at $2?  Because they can't charge any more?

Point is, no one can sell a retail cartridge/card game for $5, much less $1

Who's arguing?  Stand down.

, and they can't match the flexible pricing structure of iOS/Android in their digital services, either. They can't compete.

Can't? Nonsense.  Won't? Maybe.

[pilonv1]

Well, that's one way to make it look good, but if you look at the messy details like 2/3 of last gen's systems being on the market for 4 (xbox) or 5 (gamecube) years versus all three systems being on the market for 6+ years this gen, or that the trend of the last three years has been a massive decline the likes of which we haven't seen in this industry since the early 80s, it doesn't really do much to allay concerns.

There's always a decline at the end of a generation. This one looks worse because we had a huge fad in the middle of it. Combine that with prices that are higher after 7 years than they were after 3-4 years last time and I'm not surprised there are still huge declines. I don't know the % of ps2/Xbox sold under $180 but I assume it would be significant.

Not saying I disagree with you but I think most of the decline has been from holding higher prices and some wii owners have moved to mobile/tablets rather than HD consoles. Which bodes well for the Wii U.

[Eel O'Brian]

360 didn't exist in June 2005

[Eel O'Brian]

Wow, consoles used to have some long tails, saleswise. GBA still pulling over 100k in 2007, that's nuts.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

holee shix those console numbers of years past are incredible.

the game industry would be dancing in the streets if anybody were still pulling those #'s down.  And I forgot just how much ass Nintendo used to kick.

damn.  Nintendo just celebrated breaking the 5 Mil mark for the American 3DS.  It don't look so rosy now.

[Takao]

please tell me inversion sold 300 copies

[Cerveza mas fina]

Around 17.56 million people were out of work in the 17-country euro zone in May, or 11.1 per cent of the working population, a new high since euro-area records began in 1995, the EU's statistics office Eurostat said.

Just saying.

[Stoney Mason]

iPhone sales: 26 million units, a 28 percent growth over the year-ago quarter

iPad sales: 17 million units, an 84 percent growth over the year-ago quarter

Mac sales: 4 million units, a 2 percent growth over the year-ago quarter

iPod sales: 6.8 million units, a 10 percent decline from the year-ago quarter

http://www.vg247.com/2012/07/24/apple-q3-financials-26-million-iphones-and-17-million-ipads-sold/

[Great Rumbler]

Crazy numbers.

[Fifstar]

Took me a second to realize this are quartal numbers, damn. 

[Cerveza mas fina]

Why couldnt sony make a playstation phone when people cared. They are truly run by distinguished mentally-challenged fellows.

[T-Short]

Apple is still getting slammed by the financial industry because of these iPhone sales though, since the sales are down from 35 mill for Q1. Apparently this drop off was larger than prognosticated

[treythemovie]

Apple has pretty much reached its peak and has no where to go but down. That's not to say they aren't going to continue doing well, because they are. But once they start going down every ally, competitor and "analyst" is going to come out of the woodwork looking for blood. Sound be fun! 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

sadly Apple fanboys are only going to get more unbearable as this happens 

[close]

[pilonv1]

Apple is still getting slammed by the financial industry because of these iPhone sales though, since the sales are down from 35 mill for Q1. Apparently this drop off was larger than prognosticated

From what I understand from people working in the telco industry, iPhone is old news, consumers want something new and the android handsets are giving them that.

[pilonv1]

The Samsung phones are doing well.