Sales Bore | Media Create And Other Sale Numbers |OT|

[cool breeze]

alternatively, does MLB regularly sell this well or did everything Wolfenstein and under sell bad?

[Joe Molotov]

Kirbeh > Mario Golf

[Human Snorenado]

MARIO KART #2? ANDREX EXPLAIN

[cool breeze]

vita only 4 thousand behind the wii u.  now this is a race.


yikes.  ps4 only console above 100k.

[Pringo]

200k > PS4 > 100k > XBO > Wii U > 360 > 50k > PS3 > Wii

[Himu]

XBO had a price drop and no kinect and is less than 100k?!

[Takao]

Kinect drop occurred in june himu

[Himu]

Oh. I thought it was May, because I remember it being announced in May.

[Joe Molotov]

You could "pre-order" a Kinect-less Xbox in May. 

[mjemirzian]

2015 feels like the industry tipping point. Either console sales skyrocket and all those back to back AAAs sell well, or there's going to be a lot of red ink spilled.

[Tasty]

XBO more than Wii U in MK month

[Himu]

2015 feels like the industry tipping point. Either console sales skyrocket and all those back to back AAAs sell well, or there's going to be a lot of red ink spilled.

Sales are tanking. 2015 will be the mass culling and transition to mobile for a lot of developers I think.

[archie4208]

2015 feels like the industry tipping point. Either console sales skyrocket and all those back to back AAAs sell well, or there's going to be a lot of red ink spilled.

It'll be the later for the console guys.

Meanwhile Tencent is making loadsamoney. 

All hail your mobile and F2P overlords. 

[Barraco Barner]

I'm gonna need some Ouya numbers before I give credence to any doomsday scenarios.

[Joe Molotov]

I'm gonna need some Ouya numbers before I give credence to any doomsday scenarios.

When one gets sold, I'll you know.

[Great Rumbler]

All hail your mobile and F2P overlords. 

F2P is literal hell garbage.

[Himu]

All hail your mobile and F2P overlords. 

F2P is literal hell garbage.

Really? F2P is fine. Many good games are available via f2p.

[Great Rumbler]

Maybe a couple are, most are little more than insidious money pits.

[Himu]

Not really?

[Himu]

what's the diff between paying 60 dollars for a game you can beat in 20 hours and never pick up again, and a game that has three free levels, and you can pay to buy the whole package for 20 dollars?

[Himu]

I paid jack shit for Layton iOS and i've gotten ample amount of time out of it. I got Paint it Back for free - which nets you three chapters for free - which was enticing enough to plunk 3 bucks on it for 200 additional puzzles.

Face it. When done right - which happens a lot when you have good taste and don't play crap games - F2P model >>>>> wasting 60 bucks on some mediocre monstrosity.

[Tasty]

Gimme more games like MH Freedom Unite and less like Candy Crush and I'll start to let mobile lick the crumbs off my shoes, and work up from there.

[Human Snorenado]

Sorry guys, a business model where you pay $60 to be bored with BioShock Infinite and done with it after 12 hours is more legitimate than one in which you pay maybe $80 for literally half a year's worth of varied and fun gameplay. If the bore has taught me nothing, it has taught me this.

[Himu]

Sorry guys, a business model where you pay $60 to be bored with BioShock Infinite and done with it after 12 hours is more legitimate than one in which you pay maybe $80 for literally half a year's worth of varied and fun gameplay. If the bore has taught me nothing, it has taught me this.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Or you got Bioshock through PS+ which is the superior business model.

[Himu]

I still prefer F2P. Let's take a heavy hitter for this year: Destiny. I'd love to try Destiny, but I'm not willing to plunk 60 bucks on it. I also am not interested in using Redbox. With F2P, I can just play Destiny for free, and, let's say the game locks certain areas so you can't experience the full game without paying for the rest of it. So you try it out for a bit, see if you like it enough to pay for the rest, and spend 20 dollars on the rest of the game.

How is that inferior to playstation plus? At release, assuming there's a PS+ discount, how much of a benefit is there over just buying it from Amazon? F2P is clearly superior in the short term and long run. Sure, some developers/publishers abuse it, but publishers abuse the 60 dollar console price point as well - Tomb Raider retailed at 60 dollars!

Similarly, when buying music on iTunes, you can listen to a snippet of it before buying. Or hell, you can listen to the radio, and buy it later. I can do the same thing with Kindle books. Unfortunately, there's not a movie equivalent, but the 60 dollar premium price model is clearly outdated as seen by virtually every other form of mass market media. Why can I not play your Hollywood Gaming title to see if I enjoy and am willing to purchase the rest of it at a reasonable price? Shit's ridic.

[Damian79]

I think I would like F2P games more if the controller for ipad comes.  I just cant get used to touch screen controls on the ipad.  Maybe old dog and new tricks?

[MrAngryFace]

People generally satisfied with F2P experiences are essentially 'done' with gaming- they just haven't realized it. F2P models work for the most cynical of reasons, and the folks that buy into that model do nothing but rationalize being used.

[Damian79]

I dont think f2p is the end of gaming.  But high end gaming isnt possible for f2p with the exception of mmos which are big money pits.  The next 3ds should cater to the f2p models however i dont see any way around it.  Because 3ds game tend not to be high end with the exception of a few games.

[Himu]

People generally satisfied with F2P experiences are essentially 'done' with gaming- they just haven't realized it. F2P models work for the most cynical of reasons, and the folks that buy into that model do nothing but rationalize being used.

I'm rationalizing that I just played Layton Brothers in my bed without paying a cent? If that's rationalizing, what's spending 60 dollars on kusoge?

[Stoney Mason]

No payment model is perfect. There is a lot of crap in f2p mixed in with a smaller segment of good stuff. And I think we can all agree the $60 model is full of games that aren't worth $60.

So the answer most likely is a variety of pay models that work different basely on the heritage of the platform and what the market is willing to bear. More pay models not less is where we are heading.

[etiolate]

Yeah, there will be more variations of payment models rather than a single standard.

I actually find Skylanders to be the most disdainful model. It's a full price game that includes on-disc DLC targeted at kids in the shape of figurines. I always wondered if the parents would keep buying the damned toys if they realized the characters already existed in the $80 game they bought their kid.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I thought that F2P resembled arcades, but arcades never let you play for free from the start.

[etiolate]

TF2 also has a tax system, as does a lot of SOE stuff with player created content. Trades and purchases between players has a portion charged that goes to the company.

[archie4208]

I've basically broke even on Dota 2 from selling item drops.  I'm more than happy with that business models.

I don't mind the LoL type of model where content is hidden behind a grind, but if the grind is excessive then I lose motivation to play.

Energy meters can go to hell.

[Positive Touch]

am suddenly reminded of a million awful discussions i had as a tween on punk rock and the nature of selling out

[Cerveza mas fina]

All entertainment costs money in a way, but I think gamers are the most anal about how they spend their money.

With movies I sometimes go to the cinema, sometimes I Netflix, sometimes I watch free tv and sometimes paid cable (which I don't have) and sometimes I torrent.

Same with games, except that I never torrent games.

[Positive Touch]

BACK IN MY DAY WE PAYED $50 FOR SHITTY 5-HOUR-LONG MOVIE TIE-IN GAMES AND WE LIKED IT GODDAMNIT

[thisismyusername]

All hail your mobile and F2P overlords. 

F2P is literal hell garbage.

I wouldn't go that far. There's some good ones like Hawken that don't treat you like garbage. While some that have good gameplay like Ghost Recon: Online that treat you like shit for not pay-to-winning.

Shareware: Doom, Layton iOS, Final Fantasy Dimensions, Telltale games

Man, I miss the shareware days. When you got about 2-5 hours of content for free. Why can't we go back to the Doom model and less Telltale one-hour "demo" episodes. :'(

Same with games, except that I never torrent games.

[archie4208]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116963900&postcount=3002

I didn't know the 3DS was doing that poorly.

RIP in pepperoni Nintendo.

[Human Snorenado]

There's some small element of truth in what MAF's saying- I don't play a lot of games anymore. I play what I know I like, and I play the everliving fuck out of it for months if not years at a time- D3, PAD, MLB the Show. Other people buy multiple games a month at full retail and sometimes get stinkers but justify it because that's their "hobby" or whatever. Then there's demi, who is a black hole from which no hope, money, or taste can possibly escape.

I'll leave it up to others to decide who is wasting their life.

[Cerveza mas fina]

As much as I like to give him shit for spending money on dragon eggs I'm with COG on this one.

[a slime appears]

BACK IN MY DAY WE PAYED $50 FOR SHITTY 5-HOUR-LONG MOVIE TIE-IN GAMES AND WE LIKED IT GODDAMNIT

STILL DO!

People generally satisfied with F2P experiences are essentially 'done' with gaming- they just haven't realized it. F2P models work for the most cynical of reasons, and the folks that buy into that model do nothing but rationalize being used.

Or y'know they're kids, parents, or anyone else who's not diehard into games. I can understand how easy it is to be cynical about the F2P model, in fact everything about it deserves cynicism, but it does grow the industry and helps introduce new people to the hobby. Maybe not in the direction you'd like it to go but it is growth and that's most important to the businesses that drive it (i.e.: not you).

[magus]

There's some small element of truth in what MAF's saying- I don't play a lot of games anymore

console gaming is in shamble, all the companies that made the golden era of videogames are gone and pretty much exist as ghost of themself so it shouldn't be shocking that there aren't just a lot of games to play anymore...

unless you are into compile heart shit, how they keep going making games is a fucking mystery

You're not 'done' with gaming if you're still playing video games; you're just done with being a neckbeard about it.

i'm still posting on a gaming forum, of course i'm still being a videogame neckbeard

[Trent Dole]

I play the shit out of a F2P thing along with the occasional cheap ass Steam sale begotten download and bought like one boxed console game so far this year. What does that make me?

[Brehvolution]

I'm really loving Hearthstone and I'll probably never pay a dime in it. All I have to do is daily quests and casual play and I'll have enough coins for packs and arena play.

[archnemesis]

I will likely buy the Hearthstone expansion. I've already spent many hours on it and I'm willing to hand over a few dollars. At the pace I'm playing now I don't have to worry about gold. If I feel like playing Arena then I have enough to cover the entry cost.

[archie4208]

Whales

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not mine, honest.  I've spent like $80

[close]

[AdmiralViscen]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116963900&postcount=3002

I didn't know the 3DS was doing that poorly.

RIP in pepperoni Nintendo.

I was going to post something like that earlier, but it really throws the situation into sharp relief when you realize the PSP time-aligned basically kicked the sales ass of almost every system today.  And that was a laughable failure by that gen's standards.

To be fair it had a strong start

[tiesto]

F2P is fine if its cosmetic-type stuff, or shareware, but I hate F2P for things where it breaks the balance of the gameplay (where the game amps up the grind trying to force you into paying for quicker level ups, or provides exclusive weapons/armor that give your characters advantages), or for 'stamina level' type stuff.

[thisismyusername]

Shareware: Doom, Layton iOS, Final Fantasy Dimensions, Telltale games

Man, I miss the shareware days. When you got about 2-5 hours of content for free. Why can't we go back to the Doom model and less Telltale one-hour "demo" episodes. :'(

money.  this gets to the root problem of the industry where costs to produce content grew out of proportion with the audience.  that one hour of content costs more than an entire game budget did back in the day but will likely sell the final product to about as many people.  it's a fucked up situation.

True. But I miss being able to play Doom 1's first episode over and over and over without having to pay for it.  I just want that feeling back.

Hawken, again, nearly gets that feeling. It doesn't require you to "pay to win" like something like Ghost Recon: Online does and the starting mech will generally be able to toe-to-toe with most of the other mechs if you play it right and have a good team dynamic back-up so you aren't eating deaths. I wish more F2P titles did that instead of "LOL PAY FOR THESE OBVIOUSLY BETTER WEAPONS."  :'(

[Positive Touch]

How do you feel about classic arcade games, which were balanced in a similar fashion?

definitely inferior to respectable full-priced products, like the old jrpgs that forced you to grind for hours on end just to pad out playtime

[tiesto]

How do you feel about classic arcade games, which were balanced in a similar fashion?

Depends on how the game was balanced. If it was obviously unfair and a cheap quarter muncher, I probably didn't care for it (many beat-em-ups). Those that were difficult but provided a more gradual learning curve were much better... and a lot of the truly classic arcade games are more the latter. Speaking from someone who still frequents places where arcade games can be found (a rarity in this country).

[Himu]

definitely inferior to respectable full-priced products, like the old jrpgs that forced you to grind for hours on end just to pad out playtime

i thought you liked final fantasy man

You don't have to grind in FF to win.

[tiesto]

definitely inferior to respectable full-priced products, like the old jrpgs that forced you to grind for hours on end just to pad out playtime

i thought you liked final fantasy man

You don't need to grind to get through 99% of all RPGs out there (and especially not any of the FF games after the first 2 Famicom games... maybe in 3 towards the end as well). You of all people should know this, Positive. But I guess you'd rather just bust my balls for being suspicious of F2P structures.

[tiesto]

You do have a point, but I still think there's a difference between Ghouls and Ghosts being hard as fuck to extend its playtime so people wouldn't trade it in right away and a game with the difficulty level of Ghouls and Ghosts with a big flashing popup when you die that says "buy this special weapon for $2 that will make the game a shitload easier". I guess I preferred when games were a bit more subtle with their monetization.

Everyone's got shit but some people have much more shit than others.

[tiesto]

TBH most of my experience with G'n'G (and Metal Slug 3) actually come from their console ports, or arcades with free play

[Himu]

You do have a point, but I still think there's a difference between Ghouls and Ghosts being hard as fuck to extend its playtime so people wouldn't trade it in right away and a game with the difficulty level of Ghouls and Ghosts with a big flashing popup when you die that says "buy this special weapon for $2 that will make the game a shitload easier". I guess I preferred when games were a bit more subtle with their monetization.

Everyone's got shit but some people have much more shit than others.

Why do people bring this up when most if not all f2p games that do this are crap games anyways? It's like you're using bottom of the barrel examples to prove a point. It is unrealistic and not true for most f2p of note - of which there are many. To be honest, your double standard is showing here. You bring up crap games that say "buy this to make this game a lot easier" while defending a medium - arcade games in this instance - that have a long history of fucking the player over. That one Double Dragon game being a great example.

[Himu]

Hell, let's take Daytona. Holy hell, Daytona. It's my favorite arcade game of all time. But I spent A LOT of quarters just managing to save time. Time is limited, and when you run out of time, it's game over. Holy shit. As a kid who couldn't go to the arcade often that pissed me off. And Daytona is a GOOD game. Maybe it was because I was bad at Daytona - and I will admit I was, as it had one hell of a learning curve. But that doesn't excuse it in any way. It is like these f2p critics don't remember the very games they grew up with are now defending.

[Positive Touch]

I guess you'd rather just bust my balls

its all i know breh sorry