Author Topic: Is the world burning?  (Read 244807 times)

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Madrun Badrun

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1860 on: June 03, 2020, 09:23:32 PM »
quick back of the napkin hot take: if your media outlet is supposed to be some bulwark for liberal democracy, yes, it makes total sense to filter out voices that are illiberal or antidemocratic

I agree.  They should have done that, and as I said its a balancing act and understandable why it happened.  What I'm saying is the contrapositive of that is dangerous in a time of fake news: fairly isolated instances of failing to be that filter does mean we should question the validity of them being that bulwark. 

because it leads to this

FWIW, I'm suffering from massive cognitive dissonance. I stan NYT because of stuff like the 1619 project but stuff like this and the 2016 coverage of Trump often make me reconsider. This is how Tasty must feel with Google and their spying. :stahp

My brain doesn't know how to deal with it.

which is fine, but remember that next-level version of this feeling is not to become more educated and just stan contributors but to declare the paper as whole fake news.

Himu

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1861 on: June 03, 2020, 09:24:58 PM »
Don't stan the paper/brand then. Stan the contributors you like.

But the Lens section. :stahp
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1862 on: June 03, 2020, 09:29:34 PM »
More than anything I dislike the idea that the nyt must be defended because what, they aren't fox news? FWIW I've been reading them since I was a child, my parents had it on the table every morning, the New York Times is a part of my life for better or worse and i've seen them at their best (1619 project) and at their worst (defending indefensible wars). There's a hard limit to the "so...but what if we nuked iran" type content as a kooky  thought piece but that limit will be stretched over the next 5-7 years of economic ruin.

I dislike my position too, but I genuinely think fake news is one of the scariest things of our times, and I have no other solution than to defend the few papers that haven't fallen to the disease.   


Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1864 on: June 03, 2020, 09:31:26 PM »
Imagine being a senator and arguing about using military against your own people

Himu

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1865 on: June 03, 2020, 09:36:57 PM »
More than anything I dislike the idea that the nyt must be defended because what, they aren't fox news? FWIW I've been reading them since I was a child, my parents had it on the table every morning, the New York Times is a part of my life for better or worse and i've seen them at their best (1619 project) and at their worst (defending indefensible wars). There's a hard limit to the "so...but what if we nuked iran" type content as a kooky  thought piece but that limit will be stretched over the next 5-7 years of economic ruin.

I dislike my position too, but I genuinely think fake news is one of the scariest things of our times, and I have no other solution than to defend the few papers that haven't fallen to the disease.

Defend good people and good journalists, not papers owned by gajillionaires who don't give a flying fuck about you. The masses are stronger and smarter than overpaid ivy league grads getting posting orders from a bunch of chodes

:idont

My graduate school program will give a paid internship at NYT. They are/were my pick.

I don't know how to feel or how to handle it.
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1866 on: June 03, 2020, 09:40:39 PM »
More than anything I dislike the idea that the nyt must be defended because what, they aren't fox news? FWIW I've been reading them since I was a child, my parents had it on the table every morning, the New York Times is a part of my life for better or worse and i've seen them at their best (1619 project) and at their worst (defending indefensible wars). There's a hard limit to the "so...but what if we nuked iran" type content as a kooky  thought piece but that limit will be stretched over the next 5-7 years of economic ruin.

I dislike my position too, but I genuinely think fake news is one of the scariest things of our times, and I have no other solution than to defend the few papers that haven't fallen to the disease.

Defend good people and good journalists, not papers owned by gajillionaires who don't give a flying fuck about you. The masses are stronger and smarter than overpaid ivy league grads getting posting orders from a bunch of chodes

:idont

Don't stan the paper/brand then. Stan the contributors you like.

E: basically this. for example i hate the intercept, but it has a couple contributors i like like aida chavez.

People's opinions will always coalesce based on the medium.   Keeping track of separate opinions for individual journalists is a big ask for most people.  It's the same reason we have (or at least one reason) why we have political parties and why people focus on federal politics over local.  It's the same argument as don't defend democrats, defend individual good politicians but this has consequences. 

ToxicAdam

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1867 on: June 03, 2020, 09:46:06 PM »
Why not give bad opinions a platform? Let the public see it for what it is and that person has to live with the stigma  of that poor thinking for the rest of their career.

Quit being so afraid all the time.

shosta

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1868 on: June 03, 2020, 09:47:16 PM »
Can you imagine watching what's happening and saying "quit being so afraid"

I am afraid, bro
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1869 on: June 03, 2020, 09:49:25 PM »
Why not give bad opinions a platform?

Because a hell of a lot of people don't think it's a bad opinion and will reinforce it. 

ToxicAdam

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1870 on: June 03, 2020, 09:52:50 PM »
“ think of the children” and other variations of that argument don’t fly with me. We live in a wide open media landscape and anything Cotton printed there he could have transmitted in a thousand different ways with far more reach (collectively).

It’s not 1950 anymore where there’s 3 channels, 2 radio stations and 1 newspaper.


Madrun Badrun

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1871 on: June 03, 2020, 09:55:50 PM »
People's opinions will always coalesce based on the medium.   Keeping track of separate opinions for individual journalists is a big ask for most people.  It's the same reason we have (or at least one reason) why we have political parties and why people focus on federal politics over local.  It's the same argument as don't defend democrats, defend individual good politicians but this has consequences.

Yeah but it's not a big ask for someone who's extremely online :hitler

TBF i feel that twitter makes this "style" of news consumption way easier because you develop a lot of familiarity with a journalist or perspective by subbing to them.

I don't have a twitter and I just want to get back what little lefty cred I have back by saying that I make that sacrifice solely because when the revolution happens, they will go for the people three degrees from the antifa leaders first while I'll be left to make your death meaningful.   :salute

Uncle

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1872 on: June 03, 2020, 10:00:16 PM »
trump isn't out there putting out opinion pieces but we see his dumbass opinions all the time and in the case of his most recent ones to "dominate" peaceful protesters it could actually be a major contributor to getting him out of there
:idont

the fear of "normalizing" the harmful is pretty shit

it's why we've got people saying they shouldn't put villains in media anymore because some crazy person out there might accidentally get the idea that it's a good thing to kidnap princesses
Uncle

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1873 on: June 03, 2020, 10:04:08 PM »
Trump writes a few dozen opinion pieces a day and they are all 280 characters or less.  I think it's fair to say that they have normalized some pretty terrible things in less than a decade.

edit:  not to harp on the media still, but I am watching CNN for the first time in years because of the protests and WTF is up with the little banter that happens between Don Lemon and the white one before he hands it off to Lemon. 

Himu

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1874 on: June 03, 2020, 10:05:17 PM »
trump isn't out there putting out opinion pieces but we see his dumbass opinions all the time and in the case of his most recent ones to "dominate" peaceful protesters it could actually be a major contributor to getting him out of there
:idont

the fear of "normalizing" the harmful is pretty shit

it's why we've got people saying they shouldn't put villains in media anymore because some crazy person out there might accidentally get the idea that it's a good thing to kidnap princesses

This is a bad argument.

Trump has normalized a lot of shit.

If anything, this opinion has put me squarely on the side of "running this was a bad idea".

 :comeon
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Himu

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1875 on: June 03, 2020, 10:10:38 PM »
10 buses worth of troops pulled up near WH
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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1876 on: June 03, 2020, 10:12:09 PM »
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Uncle

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1877 on: June 03, 2020, 10:13:11 PM »
trump isn't out there putting out opinion pieces but we see his dumbass opinions all the time and in the case of his most recent ones to "dominate" peaceful protesters it could actually be a major contributor to getting him out of there
:idont

the fear of "normalizing" the harmful is pretty shit

it's why we've got people saying they shouldn't put villains in media anymore because some crazy person out there might accidentally get the idea that it's a good thing to kidnap princesses

This is a bad argument.

Trump has normalized a lot of shit.

If anything, this opinion has put me squarely on the side of "running this was a bad idea".

 :comeon

if this particular opinion piece is the spark needed to light the fire to get people to rally against future bad opinion pieces like these, it would ironically prove the premise correct that a net positive can come out of such things
:trumps
Uncle

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1878 on: June 03, 2020, 10:14:20 PM »
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1879 on: June 03, 2020, 10:18:25 PM »
Biden was actually demonstrating the effect of a leg shot in that pic.

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1880 on: June 03, 2020, 10:19:25 PM »
Why not give bad opinions a platform? Let the public see it for what it is and that person has to live with the stigma  of that poor thinking for the rest of their career.
because people generally dont flock to the opinions that are best argued or have the best evidence, they flock to the ones that confirm their priors or serve their narrow interests. i also think the ideal of a newspaper being over and above the everyday political fray, acting as a neutral arbiter, is just dumb

Quote
We live in a wide open media landscape.
we really dont though

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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1883 on: June 03, 2020, 10:23:20 PM »
10 buses worth of troops pulled up near WH

I wouldn't be surprised if they were called in because to protect FROM the local police and whatever the fuck no name"military"-esque wanna be soldiers are running around there.

shosta

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1884 on: June 03, 2020, 10:24:01 PM »
we really dont though
we live in a wide open... society
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Great Rumbler

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1885 on: June 03, 2020, 10:25:36 PM »
lmao no

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-poll-exclusive/exclusive-most-americans-sympathize-with-protests-disapprove-of-trumps-response-reuters-ipsos-idUSKBN239347

https://www.frontpagelive.com/2020/06/03/majority-of-americans-disapprove-of-trump/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/03/joe-biden-trump-poll-monmouth-298470

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/us/politics/trump-campaign-virus-protests-polls.html

I don't think you get this without him repeatedly being an asshole on the national stage

yes it could drive other assholes to agree with him, but there's more and more evidence that it's doing him more harm than good

Trump's approval went up a few points during the early days of the 'rona [what with all the national unity and such], but it's been trending back down again since his response to the 'rona has been pretty bad and I can't imagine what's going on right now is going to reverse that trend.
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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1886 on: June 03, 2020, 10:29:12 PM »
good thing you got that third leg  ;)
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Don Rumata

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1887 on: June 03, 2020, 10:29:57 PM »
Why not give bad opinions a platform? Let the public see it for what it is and that person has to live with the stigma  of that poor thinking for the rest of their career.

Quit being so afraid all the time.
I'm not against the general sentiment, i don't like to have people do the critical thinking for me, but space is limited and if you give every random distinguished mentally-challenged fellow space for their shit, what's even the point of editorializing? Just go on Facebook or whatever.
Also not every issue (in fact, almost none) is on a binary spectrum, where you can just present "the two sides" and be done with it.

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1888 on: June 03, 2020, 10:37:51 PM »
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QED

shosta

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Madrun Badrun

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« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 11:05:06 PM by Madrun Badrun »

shosta

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1892 on: June 03, 2020, 11:03:12 PM »
If some guy was whacking the shit out of me on my bike for no reason I don't know how I'd keep my cool. I flip out pretty easily
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1895 on: June 03, 2020, 11:16:28 PM »
https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Attorney-identifies-SF-resident-fatally-shot-by-15315301.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

Man fatally shot by police while kneeling.

And he was Latino.  I do feel like there is an intersectionality to police brutality and may resonate more with them.  That being said without video people identify less with tragedy. 

Mandark

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1896 on: June 03, 2020, 11:17:48 PM »
Why not give bad opinions a platform? Let the public see it for what it is and that person has to live with the stigma  of that poor thinking for the rest of their career.

Quit being so afraid all the time.

obviously wrong and dumb viewpoints can get widespread traction throughout society if given the veneer of respectability by elite institutions, no matter how many times they're debunked

for example, climate change denial

Madrun Badrun

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shosta

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1898 on: June 03, 2020, 11:22:34 PM »
Learning that the NYPD have an entire fleet of entrapment vehicles is fucking me up :lawd
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Steve Contra

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1899 on: June 03, 2020, 11:28:14 PM »
There was a guy yelling out his window at the SF protest to vote libertarian :dead

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vin

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1900 on: June 03, 2020, 11:46:53 PM »
Watching the whole world learn how fucked up the NYPD is has been pretty great.

Mandark

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1901 on: June 03, 2020, 11:53:35 PM »
The Utah National Guard is in DC tonight and maybe there's some other reason but sure feels like they're going out of their way to get the whitest reinforcements possible.

Beezy

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1902 on: June 03, 2020, 11:57:45 PM »

Steve Contra

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1903 on: June 03, 2020, 11:59:28 PM »
Watching the whole world learn how fucked up the NYPD is has been pretty great.
remember when Bloomberg was running for president
vin

Mandark

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1904 on: June 04, 2020, 12:03:05 AM »
Watching the whole world learn how fucked up the NYPD is has been pretty great.
remember when Bloomberg was running for president

remember when De Blasio was running for president???

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me neither
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shosta

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1905 on: June 04, 2020, 12:04:33 AM »
Comrade De Blasio is doing the best he can with a rogue paramilitary organization, riots, and tens of thousands who suffocated to death on their own lung tissue. Give him a break
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Steve Contra

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1906 on: June 04, 2020, 12:05:17 AM »
Watching the whole world learn how fucked up the NYPD is has been pretty great.
remember when Bloomberg was running for president

remember when De Blasio was running for president???

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me neither
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I forgot that  :lol
vin


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Mandark

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1911 on: June 04, 2020, 01:32:29 AM »
Trying to find it, but there was a thread on Twitter a few days ago by a guy who does training seminars for local police on how to deal with terrorism/active shooting situations. He said over the last few years cops have been telling him antifa is their primary concern in that department, and when he'd ask them to name the major attacks caused by antifa they'd be stumped (contrasted with white supremacist and Islamic mass killings).

Also, has to be awesome to decide you need to put barriers in front of your place of worship because someone might try to ram a vehicle into it, then the president tells everyone that those barriers are signs of subversive, anti-American activity.


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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1913 on: June 04, 2020, 02:48:05 AM »


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shosta

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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1914 on: June 04, 2020, 02:52:11 AM »
My prediction is that NYT doesn't pull the Cotton piece because they already paid him and they can't afford the lost revenue during adpocalypse.
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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1915 on: June 04, 2020, 02:53:58 AM »
 :nsfanyone
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« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 08:28:07 AM by bork »
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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1916 on: June 04, 2020, 02:59:44 AM »
 :nsfw
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« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 08:27:38 AM by bork »
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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1917 on: June 04, 2020, 06:13:44 AM »
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Re: Is the world burning?
« Reply #1918 on: June 04, 2020, 06:50:23 AM »


 :stahp
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