Author Topic: Is the world burning? (Read 244678 times)

Nintex · « **Reply #2580 on:** June 09, 2020, 04:03:29 PM »

https://twitter.com/alfonslopeztena/status/1270428081275068416

Madrun Badrun · « **Reply #2581 on:** June 09, 2020, 04:16:32 PM »

pure fire for a latenight guy

Nintex · « **Reply #2582 on:** June 09, 2020, 05:14:00 PM »

Quote from: riotous on June 09, 2020, 04:57:32 PM

His hand movements were weird but I've watched like 10 times and zoomed and it seems like he just had a huge phone in his hand and was trying to capture badge numbers or soemthing?

Either that or he's just pointing and happened to have the phone in his hand. You can see he has his pointer finger on the back of the phone, maybe has one of those cases with the "ring" on the back of it.

Yeah, on the picture I saw he had a green sleeve covering his phone. Maybe he had one of those phablets.

Tripon · « **Reply #2583 on:** June 09, 2020, 05:19:40 PM »

It was a police helment or something.

Nintex · « **Reply #2584 on:** June 09, 2020, 05:38:18 PM »

Quote from: Esch on June 09, 2020, 05:35:55 PM

Comments

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1270374388488167428

On Twitter everything happens in the comments

team filler · « **Reply #2585 on:** June 09, 2020, 05:41:08 PM »

https://twitter.com/AlanCavanna/status/1270461614454702086

haha racism make left turrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Nintex · « **Reply #2586 on:** June 09, 2020, 06:12:10 PM »

https://twitter.com/NYCPBA/status/1270401236941131776

spoiler (click to show/hide)

These guys have all been watching The Dark Knight too many times

[close]

Tuckers Law · « **Reply #2587 on:** June 09, 2020, 06:12:14 PM »

EchoRin · « **Reply #2588 on:** June 09, 2020, 06:52:36 PM »

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/06/b59fc2478e01-nhk-apologizes-for-clip-on-us-blm-protests-after-racism-accusations.html

Heh. Yeah not too surprised NHK misfired.

Tripon · « **Reply #2589 on:** June 09, 2020, 06:53:04 PM »

https://twitter.com/StephenGutowski/status/1270482008234491905

When the Free Bacon guy who covers cubs and liberty thinks this is too racist.

Cauliflower Of Love · « **Reply #2590 on:** June 09, 2020, 07:11:43 PM »

Left out of the conversation?

Madrun Badrun · « **Reply #2591 on:** June 09, 2020, 07:13:31 PM »

Quote from: Esch on June 09, 2020, 06:05:36 PM

https://twitter.com/AugustTakala/status/1270399690912272384

I'm so done trying to watch cops justify themselves.

Joe Molotov · « **Reply #2592 on:** June 09, 2020, 07:17:23 PM »

Have a guy named Pat Lynch speak out about how unfair everyone's being to the police, brehs.

Don Rumata · « **Reply #2593 on:** June 09, 2020, 07:30:15 PM »

Quote from: Tripon on June 09, 2020, 05:19:40 PM

It was a police helment or something.

Phones can be used as detonators!

thisismyusername · « **Reply #2594 on:** June 09, 2020, 07:49:37 PM »

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1270488652796362753

Bad Cops, Bastard Cops...
What 'cha gonna do?
What 'cha gonna do when they cancel you?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

X-Cops was the only good COPS episode.

[close]

team filler · « **Reply #2595 on:** June 09, 2020, 08:00:04 PM »

Quote from: Stro on June 09, 2020, 07:38:19 PM

Does Nintex know a Leopold II statue got torn down in Antwerp

curly · « **Reply #2596 on:** June 09, 2020, 08:38:53 PM »

Bernie feeding Mandark trolling material

Cauliflower Of Love · « **Reply #2597 on:** June 09, 2020, 08:48:23 PM »

Quote from: thisismyusername on June 09, 2020, 07:49:37 PM

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1270488652796362753

Bad Cops, Bastard Cops...
What 'cha gonna do?
What 'cha gonna do when they cancel you?

spoiler (click to show/hide)
X-Cops was the only good COPS episode.
[close]

cops was less brutal than what weve seen in the news lately.

shosta · « **Reply #2598 on:** June 09, 2020, 08:49:11 PM »

defunding police departments and redefining what police departments are the same thing but have become a proxy war for ideological posturing

Mandark · « **Reply #2599 on:** June 09, 2020, 09:03:25 PM »

Remember when Sean McElwee made "Abolish ICE" a thing by repeating it over and over on Twitter, then he stopped saying it because Elizabeth Warren didn't support it and she was his candidate? And Bernie Twitter roasted him for being a hypocrite careerist, but then Bernie didn't support it either so everyone just dropped it?

Uncle · « **Reply #2600 on:** June 09, 2020, 09:14:54 PM »

Quote from: shosta on June 09, 2020, 08:49:11 PM

defunding police departments and redefining what police departments are the same thing but have become a proxy war for ideological posturing

redefining what they are/do requires a holistic approach which is more complex than simply adding or removing money

body cameras (when implemented with policies that keep them turned ON) provide accountability and cost money

deescalation training costs money

Camden NJ doubled the size of its police department which costs money

other aspects of redefining police could involve reducing funding, such as having a non-police team for responding to situations that don't require police and presumably wouldn't be funded through the police budget

or demilitarizing the police which means getting rid of the tanks and other equipment, thus removing the ongoing maintenance costs associated with it

all of this is redefining and not simply applying an income debuff

Cauliflower Of Love · « **Reply #2601 on:** June 09, 2020, 09:23:52 PM »

I can't believe sanders didn't full throat all that during the campaign.

What a fucking coward.

curly · « **Reply #2602 on:** June 09, 2020, 09:30:18 PM »

Quote from: shosta on June 09, 2020, 08:49:11 PM

defunding police departments and redefining what police departments are the same thing but have become a proxy war for ideological posturing

serious doubt

also ideological posturing matters

Tripon · « **Reply #2603 on:** June 09, 2020, 09:31:44 PM »

Quote

Both George Floyd and Derek Chauvin, the ex-police officer charged for Floyd's death, worked together at a nightclub and had a history of not getting along. The owner of the nightclub says Chauvin was afraid and intimidated by black people. Jeff Pegues has the details.

shosta · « **Reply #2604 on:** June 09, 2020, 09:39:41 PM »

Quote from: curly on June 09, 2020, 09:30:18 PM

serious doubt

Don't get me wrong, there's a yawning gulf between what Joe Biden wants and what the left proper wants wrt policing. I just mean that what Bernie is saying here - making community spending a priority over a bloated police budget, creating new first responder units, disarming the police, in short, "redefining police departments", even if at the end of the day there is still a force with the same function but at a tenth or a quarter of the size - is 90% of the way to "defund the police".

Quote

also ideological posturing matters

In general sure but not when we're trying to tar and feather left politicians for no policy differences

Uncle · « **Reply #2605 on:** June 09, 2020, 09:41:06 PM »

Quote from: Tripon on June 09, 2020, 09:31:44 PM

htt ps://ww w.yout ube.com/watch?v=sBcRjJ_zgQA

Quote
Both George Floyd and Derek Chauvin, the ex-police officer charged for Floyd's death, worked together at a nightclub and had a history of not getting along. The owner of the nightclub says Chauvin was afraid and intimidated by black people. Jeff Pegues has the details.

none of what was said there really contradicts earlier reports that placed them at the same location but not necessarily pinning down that they had ever communicated with each other even once, it's a coworker who wants to be part of the story and provides nothing concrete

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chauvin-floyd-club-employment/

Quote

Santamaria told us via phone that while the employment history of Floyd and Chauvin at the club did overlap some, it’s unlikely that the two men knew each other.

“They were in different departments, and in different parts of the building,” Santamaria told us. “I don’t think they knew each other. I think that’s a stretch.”

Santamaria said that Chauvin worked at the club long-term as an off-duty police officer who provided security outside the building. Floyd worked as a part-time security guard who was positioned inside the club.

So while it’s true that Floyd and Chauvin worked at the club at the same time, it’s unknown, and unlikely, according to the former owner of the building where the club was located, that the two men knew each other.

additionally if they knew each other well enough that chauvin would've wanted to kill floyd, then why did floyd address him in the video impersonally as "officer"

team filler · « **Reply #2606 on:** June 09, 2020, 09:53:33 PM »

columbus statue got taken down too

curly · « **Reply #2607 on:** June 09, 2020, 09:58:34 PM »

Quote from: shosta on June 09, 2020, 09:39:41 PM

Quote from: curly on June 09, 2020, 09:30:18 PM
serious doubt
Don't get me wrong, there's a yawning gulf between what Joe Biden wants and what the left proper wants wrt policing. I just mean that what Bernie is saying here - making community spending a priority over a bloated police budget, creating new first responder units, disarming the police, in short, "redefining police departments", even if at the end of the day there is still a force with the same function but at a tenth or a quarter of the size - is 90% of the way to "defund the police".
Quote
also ideological posturing matters
In general sure but not when we're trying to tar and feather left politicians for no policy differences

I don't think Bernie's approach would shrink the police because he's fundamentally a social democrat and simply doesn't see politics that way, one that is out of step with what the defunding the police crowd are talking about. Reading through this (which of course is better than 99% of what is on the menu) and under his plan we would still end up in a scenario where police departments swallow up the lion's share of local budgets. You don't institute a policy of reform by cutting the budget, it's a significant investment. That he talks about "supplementing" the police with a civilian corps instead of "replacing" them is telling in itself. And from anecdotal experience the protesters are not clamoring to increase the pay of the police. Bernie wants a more humane and accountable police force but decreasing the power of an arm of the state is not in his political wheelhouse.

shosta · « **Reply #2608 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:02:26 PM »

Quote from: curly on June 09, 2020, 09:58:34 PM

one that is out of step with what the defunding the police crowd are talking about

is there an article somewhere that gives me an example of this view so that I have a point of reference?

Oblivion · « **Reply #2609 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:05:08 PM »

how about we start police reforms by making it illegal to turn off body cams?

curly · « **Reply #2610 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:06:03 PM »

nvm I'm dumb

edit: I thought bernie didn't want to disband ICE and I looked it up and he did...I blame Mandark

team filler · « **Reply #2611 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:12:02 PM »

Quote from: Oblivion on June 09, 2020, 10:05:08 PM

how about we start police reforms by making it illegal to turn off body cams?

not effective

Mandark · « **Reply #2612 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:17:08 PM »

"Defund the police" for most people* is metonym for "the situation is very fucked up and requires a dramatic change." It's a bit awkward as a slogan when most of the people saying it concede the need for some form of state violence with an attendant bureaucracy. But "defund the current police apparatus while abolishing some of its functions, scaling back some, and delegating others" isn't a great slogan, and people just came together in the last week, they're fed up, and the role of mass protest isn't to produce white papers.

Insofar as there's a boom-and-bust activism cycle, where young people get wildly overoptimistic that they're on the verge of a huge breakthrough and then despondent when it doesn't happen, that's not great but it's just the circle of life with these things. In the short-medium term, the momentum on criminal justice is with the doves for the first time in my lifetime and that's p cool.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

*Obviously there have been police abolitionists way before this, but it's fair to say a lot of people coalesced around this as a rallying cry in the last week.

[close]

shosta · « **Reply #2613 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:17:48 PM »

Quote from: curly on June 09, 2020, 10:06:03 PM

nvm I'm dumb

I just have to ask because I know you also read that Ehrenreich essay and so you know that the police are one of many professions that exist solely to attenuate and manage the externalities of capitalist society. There has to be a organization vested with the authority to use force of some size so long as there is a class systematically brutalized by deprivation. If "defund the police" is the most just policy then I need to know what that looks like as well as read its apologetics because all chapter 5 of State and Revolution says is that everyone will carry guns and jump on the rare violator and I'm not really interested in the George Zimmerman solution

Mandark · « **Reply #2614 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:20:41 PM »

I'm no historian but I'm under an impression that socialist countries also have had cops?

shosta · « **Reply #2615 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:23:48 PM »

Sorry pal there have been no socialist countries since the native American tribes were genocided

curly · « **Reply #2616 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:24:41 PM »

Quote from: shosta on June 09, 2020, 10:17:48 PM

Quote from: curly on June 09, 2020, 10:06:03 PM
nvm I'm dumb
I just have to ask because I know you also read that Ehrenreich essay and so you know that the police are one of many professions that exist solely to attenuate and manage the externalities of capitalist society. There has to be a organization vested with the authority to use force of some size so long as there is a class systematically brutalized by deprivation. If "defund the police" is the most just policy then I need to know what that looks like as well as read its apologetics because all chapter 5 of State and Revolution says is that everyone will carry guns and jump on the rare violator and I'm not really interested in the George Zimmerman solution

To clarify I'm not really saying that one approach is clearly preferable to the other just that there is a gap between reforming the police and shrinking it and taking away much of its powers, and that the choice of "Defund" as a slogan signifies a preference towards the second approach by the protesters, who are much more inclined towards anarchism than good communists like you, me, and Bernie Sanders.

team filler · « **Reply #2617 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:29:10 PM »

it's easier to create an environment where cops aren't needed as much, than it is to reform what we currently have in place.

shosta · « **Reply #2618 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:29:19 PM »

I'm so mad. You said Bernie was setting himself up to get dunked on, I said what he said is functionally equivalent, you said they're not, I asked what the other side wants, and you ended by saying defund is just a signal word

Tune in next time on NBC's The Bore

Uncle · « **Reply #2619 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:31:56 PM »

Quote from: filler on June 09, 2020, 10:29:10 PM

it's easier to create an environment where cops aren't needed as much, than it is to reform what we currently have in place.

it's simple, when you catch someone robbing a place you fire one cop and give the robber one year of what would've been the cop's salary so they don't need to steal anymore

shosta · « **Reply #2620 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:32:35 PM »

I think we can all agree that Uncle is routinely one of the worst posters in this thread

curly · « **Reply #2621 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:33:01 PM »

Quote from: shosta on June 09, 2020, 10:29:19 PM

I'm so mad. You said Bernie was setting himself up to get dunked on, I said what he said is functionally equivalent, you said they're not, I asked what the other side wants, and you ended by saying defund is just a signal word

Tune in next time on NBC's The Bore

Did I do all that

I didn't mean it was empty signalling, but that it was very significant that they called for doing away with instead of remaking

team filler · « **Reply #2622 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:34:39 PM »

Quote from: Uncle on June 09, 2020, 10:31:56 PM

Quote from: filler on June 09, 2020, 10:29:10 PM
it's easier to create an environment where cops aren't needed as much, than it is to reform what we currently have in place.

it's simple, when you catch someone robbing a place you fire one cop and give the robber one year of what would've been the cop's salary so they don't need to steal anymore

if you outlaw cops, only outlaws will have cops

Uncle · « **Reply #2623 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:37:26 PM »

Quote from: shosta on June 09, 2020, 10:32:35 PM

I think we can all agree that Uncle is routinely one of the worst posters in this thread

I like your posts even if I don't apply a "like" to them, they're really thoughtful

Positive Touch · « **Reply #2624 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:46:10 PM »

the speed at which abolish the police became defund the police was pretty embarrassing to watch. i'd bet it'd be interesting to see who was so passionate about the "defund" path that they had to rush out and paint it on the street

Madrun Badrun · « **Reply #2625 on:** June 09, 2020, 10:52:50 PM »

https://www.fox23.com/news/trending/george-floyd-protests-san-jose-police-fire-rubber-bullets-own-bias-trainer-rupture-his-testicle/K5HUBNAHTJERPBKA2CVC2B5LRU/

Yeti · « **Reply #2626 on:** June 10, 2020, 12:44:32 AM »

Quote from: Madrun Badrun on June 09, 2020, 10:52:50 PM

https://www.fox23.com/news/trending/george-floyd-protests-san-jose-police-fire-rubber-bullets-own-bias-trainer-rupture-his-testicle/K5HUBNAHTJERPBKA2CVC2B5LRU/

Thought this was going to just be a small blurb but it was a pretty interesting and rewarding article.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

team filler · « **Reply #2627 on:** June 10, 2020, 01:27:30 AM »

https://twitter.com/Coretta83m/status/1270330614399602690

Madrun Badrun · « **Reply #2628 on:** June 10, 2020, 10:05:58 AM »

https://apnews.com/180a15ea069de36be58f9db6b97e1180

Don Rumata · « **Reply #2629 on:** June 10, 2020, 10:34:07 AM »

https://twitter.com/nathanfielder/status/1270517071625859072

Madrun Badrun · « **Reply #2630 on:** June 10, 2020, 10:45:46 AM »

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1270451011677798402

Joe Molotov · « **Reply #2631 on:** June 10, 2020, 11:54:14 AM »

Quote from: Yeti on June 10, 2020, 12:44:32 AM

Quote from: Madrun Badrun on June 09, 2020, 10:52:50 PM
https://www.fox23.com/news/trending/george-floyd-protests-san-jose-police-fire-rubber-bullets-own-bias-trainer-rupture-his-testicle/K5HUBNAHTJERPBKA2CVC2B5LRU/

Thought this was going to just be a small blurb but it was a pretty interesting and rewarding article.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

a filler wife?