Xbox Series S and X

[Trent Dole]

'Xbox is not running for president or releasing this year.'

[benjipwns]

They don't want to delay the manufacturing and then sit on supply. At least not without Sony's price out there I don't think.

[Lonewulfeus]

How’s that any different than what we’ve seen from Sony so far this year?

[Don Rumata]

They don't want to delay the manufacturing and then sit on supply. At least not without Sony's price out there I don't think.

I suppose, but man. My mantra is becoming "Get Rid of Aaron Greenberg". The dude is a disaster. And they should probably dump Spencer too.

I don't think I've seen a console manufacturer kill their momentum as consistently as they have. Tracing it back to that DF reveal video where they looked at the box itself, to now, months away from launch and all we have is a Craig meme and constant

(Image removed from quote.)

I don't think MS is as interested as Sony to sell the box itself, so they're probably not super worried.
They want to establish an ecosystem with Gamepass/XboxLive/Windows/xCloud that will by far outlive the console itself.
I mean consoles as a concept are going away anyhow, it's not a stupid move, and in their position, there was simply no realistic way to compete with Sony at that game.
In this trajectory, i don't think XboxSeriesX being a mega hit is all that crucial, as long as people sign up for their services with whatever device.
EDIT: That is not to say they don't care at all about selling the console, ofc. but that their strategy isn't centered around the box itself, like Sony's is.

[Lonewulfeus]

Neither box has a date or price, no one outside of enthusiasts are paying an ounce of attention to what either Sony or Microsoft are doing yet.  If the same lack of information is present when they’ve revealed the date and price then maybe I’d see the point.  As it stands I don’t really see the big deal between running on actual hardware or running on dev kits, why does that matter so much that Greenberg and Spencer should lose their jobs?  You sound kinda console warrior nuts tbh.

[Nintex]

They don't want to delay the manufacturing and then sit on supply. At least not without Sony's price out there I don't think.

I suppose, but man. My mantra is becoming "Get Rid of Aaron Greenberg". The dude is a disaster. And they should probably dump Spencer too.

I don't think I've seen a console manufacturer kill their momentum as consistently as they have. Tracing it back to that DF reveal video where they looked at the box itself, to now, months away from launch and all we have is a Craig meme and constant

(Image removed from quote.)

They know the first million or so will be bought by the hardcore fans that want to play the best version of Assassin's Creed, COD 2020 or Cyberpunk 2077 anyway.
What is going on and what none of the publishers want to admit is that 'real 'next-gen games won't be available until Unreal Engine 5 for most publishers. And Unreal Engine 5 won't be ready until late 2021 with the actual games shipping 2022 (so that's when Hellblade drops). Of course it cannot be ruled out that certain games will be pushed out the door for holiday 2021 if things are really dire.

In the meantime it's either asset flips, upscales or added ray tracing. Because publishers aren't going to make their own engines in between this 'gap' of UE upgrades. Unless like Capcom, you have your own engine that you prefer over Unreal Engine. But Nintex where does that leave EA? Well they're further behind than Epic upgrading their tech. The timing of this launch also couldn't be worse. They could've either picked 2019, so you would have cross gen ports of a number of big late-gen releases or late 2021 when UE5 is right around the corner. This is akin to the slot Nintendo picked for the Wii U. Basically right in the middle of a generational transition, so you won't get many current gen games (there aren't many) and no next gen games either (those aren't ready yet).

Sony and Microsoft will position these machines as 'premium products'. (especially Sony) as they continue to support the PS4 as the cheaper option. Now Microsoft is sort of all over the place but wants to prevent 5 different Xbox's sitting on shelves will similar names. So they're cutting down their portfolio to the Xbox One S, Xbox Series S and Xbox Series X. Dropping the Xbox One D and Xbox One X. They know the Xbox Series X will be more expensive than the PS5, so $650+ easily and they want to undercut that with a $499 or perhaps $399 Xbox Series S. I think all their confusing messaging and a less than stellar showing has given Sony a stronger hand. Because Microsoft for some insane reason has decided not to focus much on their strengths (backwards compatibility and 3rd party support) but instead on their weakness (1st party software). Because of long term partnerships the likes of Square Enix and Capcom are willing to give Sony the edge in the next-gen marketing department despite knowing that nearly all their games will be multi platform.

I think these machines will sell because console gamers want to play Cyberpunk and if the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro versions aren't up to snuff lots will invest in new hardware.
If everything released this year runs pretty decent on PS4 Pro and Xbox One X though, it'll be a tough ride. But I think Sony will win in the opening salvo with a bunch of better looking ray-traced games, less confusion and an overall better focus and positioning of their new product. I'm getting quite certain actually that Xbox Series X won't even be released in Europe and Japan this year but in the US only like the Xbox One.

[Lonewulfeus]

It’s too soon to say what’s gonna happen this gen when there isn’t even pricing for either machine, the cheaper box has been the better seller each of the last few gens.  It’s way too soon to be calling for peoples heads when we have no idea how it’s all gonna shake out.  The way you guys make it seem this gen is over and decided and we’ve seen nothing but trailers, controller designs and the box shape.  Just chill out it’s not so serious

[Nintex]

On top of everything Microsoft's secrecy about the price and playing cat and mouse with Sony is utterly useless.
Sony knows Microsoft cannot introduce their cheaper console unless they announce the price of the PS5 first.

But Sony likely won't announce their price first leaving Microsoft with the problem of not being able to pitch their Series S unless they announce the Series X is very expensive first. 

Just look at this hot mess and compare

October 2019 - PS5 announced / Early hardware specs
CES 2020 - Logo revealed
March 18 - Full specs announced
April - New controller
June 11th -  Console reveal, games reveal (1st + 3rd party 'launch window' titles and teasers)
Games claimed to be running on actual hardware.

E3 2019 - Project Scarlett Announced / Early hardware specs
VGA 2019 - Xbox Series X reveal / Various specs released / Hellblade 2 announced
February 2020 - Various specs released
May 2020 - Full specs / features announcements in blog format / Xbox 20/20 announced / Indie showcase
June - Summary of specs / bunch of branding for 'Smart Delivery' and 'Optimized'
July 23 -  Xbox Games Showcase (starring Craig)
August - Xbox 20/20 cancelled / 343i promises to improve the graphics, confirms multiplayer for launch / Optimized branding removed from pre-order boxarts
Games running on 'comparable' PC-spec

[brawndolicious]

The only thing that matters is price. Among the 4K consoles, they're way too close in tech specs to affect anything. Crosspost but looking at the Xbox One X vs Xbox One S as an example:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

• 4X difference in GPU power
• More/faster RAM
• Same CPU
• Same HDD
• different casing/cooling/power supply

One was $300, the other was $500. Unless the manufacturing process for GPU/RAM chips has changed significantly in the last five years, I would expect a ~$200 price difference again. Add on the rumored BOM cost of the XSX and PS5 being around $500, then it's reasonable that the 4K consoles will retail for around $500 and the XSS will be around $300.

Also, I would expect the PS5DE to be about the same price as the regular PS5 just like what happened to the Xbox One SAD. Even if it costs $50 less to produce, retailers will mark up digital consoles more because they won't make any future sales on software. Actually, a lot of the time the regular Xbox One S was cheaper than the digital version because of that. Maybe they'll pack in the new Spider-Man game as a download code since it should be something most people are willing to play.

[close]

I'd argue that the launch line up and game pass is far more appealing on the xbox than what Sony is offering but the big elephant in the room is that 6-12 months from now, we'll be in the middle of a huge recession and people will definitely be value shopping. The marketing and corporate communications type stuff doesn't make an impression on anyone outside of the hardcore while the idea of financing an XSS with game pass ultimate for 24 months at $25/month would definitely sell well.

[Don Rumata]

They know they can't outsell Sony. They tried to for 3 generations now and failed miserably. So I get why they'd want another approach and say "Oh actually Google" is our real competition.

Cool, GamePass is awesome. But for how long will it be? If we just keep getting Indie Games, months old third party games and shit tier first party stuff, that may get old very quick. That's also assuming Sony won't have their own service. And if that happens, what does MS have?

Sony DOES have their own service, it's Playstation Now, but it's kind of shit.
The problem is, Sony isn't magical, they spent the whole of PS3's life time transitioning from 3rd party exclusives (which essentially made PS1 and 2's success) to 1st party ones, building some arguably incredibly solid teams like Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, etc.
It's not like MS can't also build a 1st party roster as good, but that shit takes time, so if they started now (acquiring all those decent to good studios) it'll take them another 10 years minimum to get them to that level (especially since now you need 5+ years to do a single AAA game).
So by contrast if they spend this whole generation building their "Netflix for games", and then Sony decides to jump in late in the game, they could have the same situation reversed. 
Point is, you don't just flip a switch and have a whole infrastructure of services, especially since, and correct me if i'm wrong here, but their massive Azure thing is a big part of it?

I don't know, i'm just thinking out loud here, but i do see the appeal of the "game console" going away more and more, even for hardcore gamers.

[Nintex]

The only thing that matters is price. Among the 4K consoles, they're way too close in tech specs to affect anything. Crosspost but looking at the Xbox One X vs Xbox One S as an example:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

• 4X difference in GPU power
• More/faster RAM
• Same CPU
• Same HDD
• different casing/cooling/power supply

One was $300, the other was $500. Unless the manufacturing process for GPU/RAM chips has changed significantly in the last five years, I would expect a ~$200 price difference again. Add on the rumored BOM cost of the XSX and PS5 being around $500, then it's reasonable that the 4K consoles will retail for around $500 and the XSS will be around $300.

Also, I would expect the PS5DE to be about the same price as the regular PS5 just like what happened to the Xbox One SAD. Even if it costs $50 less to produce, retailers will mark up digital consoles more because they won't make any future sales on software. Actually, a lot of the time the regular Xbox One S was cheaper than the digital version because of that. Maybe they'll pack in the new Spider-Man game as a download code since it should be something most people are willing to play.

[close]

I'd argue that the launch line up and game pass is far more appealing on the xbox than what Sony is offering but the big elephant in the room is that 6-12 months from now, we'll be in the middle of a huge recession and people will definitely be value shopping. The marketing and corporate communications type stuff doesn't make an impression on anyone outside of the hardcore while the idea of financing an XSS with game pass ultimate for 24 months at $25/month would definitely sell well.

The price is an interesting subject.
A number of parts are expensive. The GPU generation the Xbox Series X and PS5 are based on, isn't even available for PC yet.

Anything that does ray tracing at a decent level is currently expensive, SSD's also relatively expensive especially the NVMe ones. According to leaks earlier this year the BOM for the PS5 was $450.
I'm expecting the Series S to hit $399 but both PS5 and Xbox Series X are unlikely to hit that number.

[EightBitNate]

I got an Xbox Series X/S controller. One of like the 3 people in the world who have one. AMA

[EightBitNate]

How'd you get it?  Pics?

I bought it

[Rufus]

Are the shoulder buttons more comfortable to reach?

Is the Xbox button still extremely mushy?

Does the shape of the dpad make it less fatiguing to use?

[Nintex]

I got an Xbox Series X/S controller. One of like the 3 people in the world who have one. AMA

Are the triggers as squishy as the Xbox One X controllers or more clicky?

Is the D-pad still garbage tier?

[EightBitNate]

- didn’t see this mentioned anywhere but triggers are wider than my S1 elite controller. I didn’t feel like there was a problem with the old triggers until I tried this controller. Less sharp, more comfortable to press.

- texture on trigger feels good, though I can see it wearing down over time. Triggers feel about the same. Maybe slightly more clicky but this is a new controller so that’s expected.

- entire back is textured. Feels good.

- ever so slightly smaller, but still very noticeable to me. Not a fan of this since I have big hands.

- home button is stilly mushy for sure

- like the D-pad. Never really had a problem with the old one though. Feels solid, very clicky.

[demi]

Its literally just an xbox controller, whats the big deal

[EightBitNate]

Its literally just an xbox controller, whats the big deal

Nuttin

[paprikastaude]

Xbox controllers are good.

[EightBitNate]

Real talk - could I get into legal trouble for sharing the video? I didn’t hear about the looting until after I purchased the controller. Thought maybe a store was selling them early or something.

[Don Rumata]

Really only have two questions:

1) Do the bumpers feel the same? Xbone and even 360 had very clicky ones not very satisfying to press (they had little to no run) and they broke all the time; really the one gripe i have with Xbox controllers.

2) Nice slender hands, do you play the piano? If not, you should think about it.

[EightBitNate]

Really only have two questions:

1) Do the bumpers feel the same? Xbone and even 360 had very clicky ones not very satisfying to press (they had little to no run) and they broke all the time; really the one gripe i have with Xbox controllers.

2) Nice slender hands, do you play the piano? If not, you should think about it.

1. Comparing it to my Elite controller, they’re actually a tad bit clickier IMO. Just compared them now. Could be because my Elite controller has seen some use. You definitely would not like them if you didn’t like the OG triggers.

2. You’re like the sixth person to tell me I have nice hands

[remy]

Watching your video it looks like they took a lot of cues from the elite series 2. The triggers and textured back especially, the dpad kinda.

[EightBitNate]

Yeah it’s honestly a very unremarkable controller but the Xbox One pad was pretty much perfect to begin with

[Don Rumata]

1. Comparing it to my Elite controller, they’re actually a tad bit clickier IMO. Just compared them now. Could be because my Elite controller has seen some use. You definitely would not like them if you didn’t like the OG triggers.

Oh i'm fine with the triggers (in fact, i think they're better than the DS4's) my problem is with the bumpers, so RB/LB, or R1/L1, to be clear, which on Dualshock are usually better and last longer.
I've had 6 or 7 Xbox gamepads between 360 and Xbone, and in all of them, the bumpers were always the first part to fail.

[EightBitNate]

1. Comparing it to my Elite controller, they’re actually a tad bit clickier IMO. Just compared them now. Could be because my Elite controller has seen some use. You definitely would not like them if you didn’t like the OG triggers.

Oh i'm fine with the triggers (in fact, i think they're better than the DS4's) my problem is with the bumpers, so RB/LB, or R1/L1, to be clear, which on Dualshock are usually better and last longer.
I've had 6 or 7 Xbox gamepads between 360 and Xbone, and in all of them, the bumpers were always the first part to fail.

My bad. Mistyped but I meant bumpers.

[Transhuman]

I wanna fuck your slutty little hands you little fuckslut

[Pissy F Benny]

[Nintex]

New Dash for all of Xbox

[Raist]

You'd think that after the July (or whenever it was) event backlash, MS would realize that people do not give a fuck about videos that are 90% folks talking about how awesome their stuff is.

[Akala]

xbox UI has been pretty trash since about mid-360 cycle when they got rid of the BLADES. 

[Joe Molotov]

BUT WHAT'S THE PRICE??

[MMaRsu]

BUT WHAT'S THE PRICE??

599 USD

[Trent Dole]

[Nintex]

https://www.thurrott.com/games/239188/a-closer-look-at-halo-infinites-turbulent-journey#

HALO Infinite development sounds like a fucking mess.

Management distracted by the TV Show. Outsourcing not going well and a 'fake' trailer at E3 2019

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/_h0x0d_/status/1303165187369832448

$299

[nudemacusers]

looks pretty cool; big lol at the number of people who think that's a speaker grille, with an additional lol or two at people thinking anyone cares about disc drives in 2020

[Bebpo]

I haven't been paying any attention. What's a Series S? Is it just the current Xbox One X rebranded?

[benjipwns]

It's a cut down cheaper version of the Series X, it will supplant the One X and become the middle-tier.

Xbox One S
Xbox One X Xbox Series S
Xbox Series X

[Bebpo]

I don't get it. So from launch they're launching a weakened version of Series X?

So developers for next-gen games have to make 3 SKUs? Xbox Series X, PS5 and Series S? And at $299 it'll be like, what, a Switch version this gen equivalent of PS5/Series X games?

[benjipwns]

We can confirm the Xbox Series S is $299, and the Series X is $499.

Xbox Series S and Xbox Series X will launch on November 10, 2020.

[Sho Nuff]

I don't get it. So from launch they're launching a weakened version of Series X?

So developers for next-gen games have to make 3 SKUs? Xbox Series X, PS5 and Series S? And at $299 it'll be like, what, a Switch version this gen equivalent of PS5/Series X games?

If the CPU lines up on S and X, it's no big deal. I think the thing just has way less fill rate but I could be wrong.

[demi]

$500 is about what I expected - bring on November

[Don Rumata]

299€ is damn good, if it's like rumored, the same console with a weaker GPU for 1080p gaming.

[Beezy]

https://twitter.com/Xbox/status/1303213264441024514

[Bebpo]

I don't get it. So from launch they're launching a weakened version of Series X?

So developers for next-gen games have to make 3 SKUs? Xbox Series X, PS5 and Series S? And at $299 it'll be like, what, a Switch version this gen equivalent of PS5/Series X games?

If the CPU lines up on S and X, it's no big deal. I think the thing just has way less fill rate but I could be wrong.

Just seems weird that you can have like a $299 system that handles next-gen games. Like why even bother making the series X. Just release a $299 console and win the market and release the series X two years later as the Pro version upgrade.

The price difference is pretty huge too. Like wasn't the PS4 Pro just $100 more than the regular PS4? At $200 price difference seems like a huge difference in tech power, I just don't see how this doesn't cause fuckery in developing next-gen games for a machine that is gonna be a lot further behind than the other two. With Switch they could get away with just not making Switch versions of games that couldn't run on Switch. But Series S is advertising as being able to play every.single Series X game.

I guess we'll see how next-gen plays out.

[recursivelyenumerable]

I like the look of the series s better than most consoles in a while, idk why people on resetera think it looks bad

[Don Rumata]

I don't get it. So from launch they're launching a weakened version of Series X?

So developers for next-gen games have to make 3 SKUs? Xbox Series X, PS5 and Series S? And at $299 it'll be like, what, a Switch version this gen equivalent of PS5/Series X games?

If the CPU lines up on S and X, it's no big deal. I think the thing just has way less fill rate but I could be wrong.

Just seems weird that you can have like a $299 system that handles next-gen games. Like why even bother making the series X. Just release a $299 console and win the market and release the series X two years later as the Pro version upgrade.

The price difference is pretty huge too. Like wasn't the PS4 Pro just $100 more than the regular PS4? At $200 price difference seems like a huge difference in tech power, I just don't see how this doesn't cause fuckery in developing next-gen games for a machine that is gonna be a lot further behind than the other two. With Switch they could get away with just not making Switch versions of games that couldn't run on Switch. But Series S is advertising as being able to play every.single Series X game.

I guess we'll see how next-gen plays out.

They wouldn't win the market, they'd be the one with the weaker console, again.
Besides, MS has no practical way to "win" against Sony, no matter what (unless PS5 costs 1000$).
I think having two SKUs is a fine choice in and of itself, it's the naming and branding they that fucked up badly.

Xbox One S; Xbox One X; Xbox Series S; Xbox Series X.
This worst than the WiiU.

[Nintex]

This is basically Microsoft giving up on the next-gen performance crown while simultaneously promoting the most powerful console on the market.
Games made exclusively for PS5 will have a higher baseline spec.

On the flip side, they are giving Nintendo a big opening for a Switch 2 in 2021/2022 with comparable power at that price point thanks to Nvidia's AI magic.
This could either work out really well (i.e. cheaper upgrade for a recession for Xbox One base owners) or it could end up in a Saturn/Wii U like disaster.

[who is ted danson?]

No disc drive? 
Could have been an ace back compat / general media machine

[mormapope]

Relevant information

Series S is powerful than all current gen consoles by far.
It’s a next gen console that targets 1080p, instead of 4K.

Same Zen 2 CPU as XSX and PS5.
Same RDNA 2 GPU architecture as XSX and PS5.
Same GDDR6 RAM as XSX and PS5.
Same NVMe SSD as XSX.

It’s expected to have similar raytracing features, machine learning/AI capabilities as XSX as well.

[Nintex]

No disc drive? 
Could have been an ace back compat / general media machine

No disc drive is weird too. Consumers on a budget would likely be more interested in physical bargain bin prices.
Although GamePass offsets some of that.

I guess for $300 + GamePass you get a lot of 'next-gen' value if you are still stuck on 1080p.
But the only way I can see this work is if they start pulling Xbox One S from the shelves ASAP as well or clear them out at $99.

It all depends on Sony too. If Sony manages to get the PS5 Digital out there for $399 the XSX doesn't make much sense.
If Sony's offerings start at $499 there is a gap there.

[mormapope]

No disc drive? 
Could have been an ace back compat / general media machine

No disc drive is weird too. Consumers on a budget would likely be more interested in physical bargain bin prices.
Although GamePass offsets some of that.

I guess for $300 + GamePass you get a lot of 'next-gen' value if you are still stuck on 1080p.
But the only way I can see this work is if they start pulling Xbox One S from the shelves ASAP as well or clear them out at $99.

It all depends on Sony too. If Sony manages to get the PS5 Digital out there for $399 the XSX doesn't make much sense.
If Sony's offerings start at $499 there is a gap there.

Xbox one inventory is pretty much cleared out at this point and production of current gen Xbox consoles has ceased.

The Xbox Series is going to take up all Xbox retail space, while left over One consoles may get clearance pricing or potentially sent back to Microsoft for recycling.

Looking up Xbox One consoles on Target and Best buy, they're not available or in stock. Xbox One and misbranding is a non issue. Covid moved all the Xbox Ones that would've trickled out in 2021.

[MMaRsu]

https://mobile.twitter.com/_h0x0d_/status/1303252607759130624

[Cerveza mas fina]

No disc drive makes perfect sense in 2020

Do phones /ipads have disc drives?

[MMaRsu]

 

[Nintex]

https://mobile.twitter.com/_h0x0d_/status/1303252607759130624

This looks like a more appealing product than the Xbox Series X they have been pushing for the past 12 months ever did 

[Ghoul]

No disc drive makes perfect sense in 2020

Do phones /ipads have disc drives?

Yeah get locked into buying at a higher price? No thanks.

[nudemacusers]

No kid out there cares about physical media my dudes.

[Nintex]

Going after Nintendo! No wonder why Nintex is so miffed.

They just handed Nintendo a gift by opening the door to ports by not locking 'next-gen' behind the 9TF PS5 barrier.
If Nintendo wants, Nvidia can easily get them up to parity with their next-switch if they include some DLSS tricks.

Switch 2
Handheld mode: 720p - 1080p (no ray-tracing / no DLSS)
Docked mode (embedded Tensor cores): 1080p / 4k (DLSS/Ray-tracing)