Game of Thrones Season 8, we can finally stop waiting on GURM

[Cerveza mas fina]

Good episode

Lol@people hating they didnt get what they wanted

Canr wait for final two episodes

[Cerveza mas fina]

where my nicca podrick at 

Probably just camping somewhere till there is just two players left

[CatsCatsCats]

Good episode

Lol@people hating they didnt get what they wanted

Canr wait for final two episodes

Only 1 left

[Cerveza mas fina]

Nooooo

[Huff]

I think most people’s issues arnt the plot points but how rushed it feels to get there

https://twitter.com/dsilvermint/status/1125856091261136896?s=21

[BlueTsunami]

Qyburn getting fucked like he had a 1hp max

[Cerveza mas fina]

Sure but whe knew it was going to be sped up

[Cerveza mas fina]

Qyburn getting fucked like he had a 1hp max

One of the best bits imho

[nachobro]

where my nicca podrick at 

busy slanging d in winterfell

Podrick is present at the lighting of the funeral pyres for all who fell during the batlle, and during the celebration feast afterwards he ends up at a table with Brienne, Tormund, and Tyrion. As the latter three get involved in Tyrion's favourite dirinkng game, Pod catches the eye of two young Winterfell women, and is seen walking arm-in-arm with them out of the great hall.

[Himu]

I think most people’s issues arnt the plot points but how rushed it feels to get there

https://twitter.com/dsilvermint/status/1125856091261136896?s=21

Not in my experience. Most are like,”but what about the slaves she freed?! Daenerys is a good person!”

[Let's Cyber]

People reacting with anger over Dany like it hasn't been foreshadowed since the very beginning are baffling me today.

Yup.

She was threatening to burn cities to the ground or "turn them to dust" going all the way back to Season 2.  A lot of viewers were willing to overlook and justify her burning people alive or crucifying slavers when they felt it was for the Greater Good. 

[agrajag]

People reacting with anger over Dany like it hasn't been foreshadowed since the very beginning are baffling me today.

Yup.

She was threatening to burn cities to the ground or "turn them to dust" going all the way back to Season 2.  A lot of viewers were willing to overlook and justify her burning people alive or crucifying slavers when they felt it was for the Greater Good.

they were probably Nazis that needed to be deplatformed

 

[Himu]

People reacting with anger over Dany like it hasn't been foreshadowed since the very beginning are baffling me today.

Yup.

She was threatening to burn cities to the ground or "turn them to dust" going all the way back to Season 2.  A lot of viewers were willing to overlook and justify her burning people alive or crucifying slavers when they felt it was for the Greater Good.

The amazing thing is how this makes you look inward. We excuse barbarism when we consider it for good. But that doesn’t change what it ultimately is.

George has really made an excellent story here. You end up cheering for Dany, looking past foibles. But in the end she’s just a tyrant.

Real talk I need Winds of Winter.

[Raist]

[Momo]

This was a well written episode and didn't have any problems. I can't wait to see the conclusion to this season which hasn't suffered at all from fanfiction tier plots.

I too look forward to the conclusion of this most excellently written series. Never seen a series be on this long and not dip in quality comrade

[agrajag]

let's not act like the majority of fans were Dany fans. Maybe it's more true for show only people. She had a following, but she's had tons of detractors in most communities.

[agrajag]

(Image removed from quote.)

Raist steals my material once more and is probably going to be rewarded with likes for it

 

[Himu]

let's not act like the majority of fans were Dany fans. Maybe it's more true for show only people. She had a following, but she's had tons of detractors in most communities.

I agree. But I still like the way this story is heading in the books.

I think the show has highlighted her good side far more than George’s books which adds to last nights horror.

[agrajag]

go ahead, like his post man

[BisMarckie]

People reacting with anger over Dany like it hasn't been foreshadowed since the very beginning are baffling me today.

Yup.

She was threatening to burn cities to the ground or "turn them to dust" going all the way back to Season 2.  A lot of viewers were willing to overlook and justify her burning people alive or crucifying slavers when they felt it was for the Greater Good.

Me, an intellectual: Dany was guilty of  imperialism, when she imposed her views on the slavers.
Nulla poena sine lege.

[agrajag]

let's not act like the majority of fans were Dany fans. Maybe it's more true for show only people. She had a following, but she's had tons of detractors in most communities.

I agree. But I still like the way this story is heading in the books.

I think the show has highlighted her good side far more than George’s books which adds to last nights horror.

George's stuff is a lot more nuanced, as ham-fisted as it may be at certain times. Plus, a lot of people simply have a boner for Emily Clarke, let's face it.

[agrajag]

[Nintex]

This episode was a wake up call for all the characters. Don't believe in prophecies and gods, there is no lord of light, faceless gods or anything else to protect you when a dragon unleashes hell.
You may reject your title as king and 'follow' your queen but that means that you have no power or control over what happens and 'your' army will simply not listen to you.

Varys called it. He knew. He had served most kings and queens. Sansa did as well because she had been deceived by people who had 'two sides' all her life (Baelish, Cersei, Ramsay).
Now all characters will have to decide what to do next. Bend the knee and celebrate the victory with their new queen to build a new world and/or resist.

This episode was great.

[agrajag]

Varys was trying to put Visserys on the throne. That would have turned out much better, no people would suffer 

[Momo]

see you guys at the premier of the netflix willow remake tv show

[agrajag]

see you guys at the premier of the netflix willow remake tv show

Is Peter Dinklage in that one too?   

[Nintex]

Baratheon rule
- Wine
- Peace
- Joust

Stark rule
- Cold
- Hunger
- Rebellion

Lannister rule
- War
- Debt
- Incest

Targaryen rule
- Genocide

 

[Don Rumata]

Baretheon rule
- Wine
- Peace
- Joust

Stark rule
- Cold
- Hunger
- Rebellion

Lannister rule
- War
- Debt
- Incest

Targaryen rule
- Genocide

 

Also incest.

[Dickie Dee]

Ian McElhinney (Barristan Selmy) saying that GRRM has already finished book 6 and 7, but struck an agreement with D&D to not publish them until the show is done: Starts at 31:40

 

[agrajag]

Yes, give it to me!

[Raist]

Fake news

[Himu]

Ian McElhinney (Barristan Selmy) saying that GRRM has already finished book 6 and 7, but struck an agreement with D&D to not publish them until the show is done: Starts at 31:40

 

Lol bs

Winds, sure. But dream of spring? No way

[Human Snorenado]

Winds probably wouldn't even get to the point of Season 7 of the show, much less Season 8.

[Skullfuckers Anonymous]

http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/13/idiocy-on-the-internet/

[Dickie Dee]

https://twitter.com/ditzkoff/status/1127939683365924864

[MMaRsu]

I thought it was pretty dope

Wondering if Dragon fire does or doesnt cut rock isn't something I'm concerned with, and if you are you are just looking for shit to nitpick.

[Himu]

Every single one of your complaints is a nitpick, Glen.

From reddit:

All of the foreshadowing that lead up to last night's episode.

• 106 - Viserys, after seeing how much the Dothraki love Daenerys, becomes jealous and tries to run away saying “Who can rule without wealth or fear of love.” (Daenerys well echo this sentiment in 804 and 805)

• 204 – Daenerys “When my dragons are grown… we will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.”

• 206 – Daenerys “I will take what is mine with fire and blood.”

• 207 - Cersei Lannister “Half the Targaryens went mad, didn't they? What's the saying? "Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin."

• 210 – Daenerys has a vision of a destroyed throne room. She reaches out to the throne but never touches it.

• 303 – Daenerys when speaking about her brother Rhaegar “…he was not the last dragon.”

• 404 - Daenerys executes 163 Meereenese noblemen. In 406 we learn some of these men were innocent. Daenerys shows absolutely no regret.

• 405 – Daenerys speaking with Jorah. “You counseled me against rashness once in Qarth. I didn’t listen. It all worked out well.”

• 407 – Jorah tells Daenerys “The masters treated men like beasts, as you said. Herding the masters into pens and slaughtering them by the thousands is also treating men like beasts.” Reminding her “I wouldn't be here to help you if Ned Stark had done to me what you want to do to the masters of Yunkai.”

• 407 – Daenerys “They can live in my new world or they can die in their old one.”

• 505 – Daenerys executes an innocent Meereenese nobleman for the sole purpose of intimidating the other nobles.

• 505 – Daenerys reopens the fighting pits allowing for innocent men to kill one another for entertainment.

• 508 – Daenerys “I’m not going to stop the wheel. I’m going to break the wheel.”

• 604 – Daenerys murders the leaders of the Dothraki for the sole purpose of consolidating power.

• 606 – Dario to Daenerys “You weren’t made to sit on a chair in a palace. You’re a conquer, Daenerys Stormborn.”

• 606 – Daenerys to the Dothraki “Will you kill my enemies in their iron suits and tear down their stone houses?”

• 609 – Speaking about the masters Daenerys swears to “Kill every one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt.” Tyrion responds “You once told me you knew what your father was. Did you know his plans for King’s Landing?” Daenerys “This is entirely different!” Tyrion “You’re talking about destroying cities. It’s not entirely different.”

• 702 – Yara Greyjoy, Olenna Tyrell, and Ellaria Sand all try to convince Daenerys to use her dragons on King’s Landing. Tyrion convinces her to do otherwise. (This is important as Tyrion’s plans fail, and his repeated failures show Daenerys there’s no other option)

• 702 - Olenna Tyrell “Commoners and nobles are all children really. They won’t obey you unless they fear you.” And later. “You’re a dragon. Be a dragon.”

• 704 – After news of her army’s defeat at Casterly Rock, Daenerys questions Tyrion’s plans and his loyalty.

• 704 – Daenerys “Enough with the clever plans. I have 3 large dragons. I’m going to fly them to the red keep.”

• 705 – Daenerys executes Randal and Dickon Tarly when imprisonment was a perfectly viable option.

• 705 – Tyrion “Daenerys is not her father.” Varys “And she never will be with the right counsel. You need to find a way to make her listen.”

• 705 – Tyrion devises a convoluted plan to capture a wight to convince Cersi to help fight the night King. Over the rest of seasons 7 and 8 this plan goes horribly wrong and results in the death of a dragon. The failure of this plan further degrades Daenerys’ trust of Tyrion.

• 801 – Lyanna Mormon publically confronts Jon Snow about giving up his crown and swearing allegiance to Daenerys. This is the beginning of Daenerys’ realization that she has no love in Westeros.

• 802 – Daenerys is angry that Tyrion’s advice about Cersei turned out to be wrong. Saying “Either you are a traitor or a fool.” And “Cersei still sits on the throne. If you can’t help me take it back I will find another Hand who can.”

• 803 – Jorah is killed in battle. He has proven to be one of the few advisors Daenerys had that tried to temper her impulses.

• 804 – Daenerys sees people praising Jon Snow and becomes jealous.

• 804 – Tormund “What kind of person climbs on a fucking dragon? A madman, or a king!” (I’d like to point out when Tormund says “madman” it cuts to a shot of Dany, and when he says “or a king!” it cuts to Jon)

• 804 – Speaking about Jorah to Jon, Daenerys “He loved me and I couldn’t love him back. Not the way he wanted. Not the way I love you.” (Her love for Jon is not returned in 805)

• 804 – Daenerys “I saw them gathered around you. I saw the way they looked at you. I know that look. So many people have looked at me that way but never here.”

• 804 – Varys “These are the people you came here to protect. Do not destroy the city you came to save…” Daenerys “I’m here to save the world fromy tyrants… and I will serve it, no matter the cost.”

• 804 - Daenerys “Speaking to Cersei will not prevent a slaughter. But perhaps its good the people see Daenerys Stormborn made every effort to avoid bloodshed and Cersei Lannister refused. They should know whom to blame when the sky falls down on them.” (We should note she is directly talking about “The People” here)

• 804 – Missandei’s final words before her execution. “Dracarys”.

• 805 – Varys “They say every time a Targaryen is born, the Gods toss a coin and the world holds its breath.”

• 805 – Daenerys speaking to Jon “Far more people in Westeros love you than love me. I don’t have love here. I only have fear.”

• 805 – After a half hearted kiss with Jon, Daenerys says “Alright then. Let it be fear.” (Echoing what Viserys said in 106)

• 805 – Tyrion “The people who live there, they’re not your enemies. They’re innocents.” Daenerys “Your sister knows how to use their enemies weaknesses against them. That’s what she thinks our mercy is. Our mercy is our strength. Our mercy toward future generations who will not be held hostage by a tyrant.” (She’s all but saying she’s not going to show mercy and will butcher everyone in the city)

• 805 – Daenerys to Tyrion. “Next time your fail me will be the last time you fail me.”

And that’s just what I can remember off the top of my head.

Here’s the point. Daenerys threatened multiple times to burn cities to the ground, she executed/murdered innocent people numerous times to consolidate power, she realized without love all she has left to rule with was fear, and she grew to distrust the only advisor trying to prevent her from burning down King’s landing.

She wasn’t “acting out of character” at any point in 805. She literally did the thing she’s threatened to do for multiple seasons.

[Don Rumata]

Some people are going absolutely mental about this episode on Twitter.
Cindi you must be thrilled, it's pretty funny to see.

And here i thought the reaction to episode 3 were overblown.

[Himu]

Cindi you must be thrilled, it's pretty funny to see.

Fuckery.

[Himu]

Some of the nitpicks are hilarious.

Like

"since when can dragon fire burn stone and if it can burn stone how come it didn't burn the stone that jon was hiding under in winterfell?"

Like I get criticism,, but you're not like going after anything concrete, in terms of structure or characterization or plotting. You're complaining about how rules work.  Which can certainly be annoying but like, isn't something to terribly be concerned about.

People like that are like the "i give this restaurant 1 star on yelp because they didn't come check on me while i was eating" of tv watchers.

[headwalk]

like i said before, there's a lot of brilliant TV production craft here from all the peons who actually put the graft into making this shit, but it's embarrassing what a rushed chop job the stortelling is and nothing lands as it should as a result. it's like watching a film on fast forward complete with squeaky voices and comedy movements.

the euron just popping out of the water to fight jamie is probably the laziest shit i've ever seen in a big production like this, it was like something out of hot shots. DnD don't give a fuck, and while this is clearly GRRM's napkin written ending and they had fuck all clue or desire to properly get there.

80 hours of being a paragon of virtue to becoming a mass murdering femcel in about an hour of screentime while everyone else devolves into a gawping sap staggering aimlessly to their plot destination.

[shosta]

What was supposed to happen to Cersei?

[agrajag]

On Glen's point about pikes and spears. Didn't the Sons of the Harpy hurt one of the dragons like that, or am I imagining things? Well, I guess those wouldn't be effective against an airborne dragon. So the scorpions were the only option. Seems like it would have been prudent to install some more scorpions on the Red Keep at least. I also like how they had the time to cast and carve out elaborate ornamentation on those scorpions. 

[Nola]

Every single one of your complaints is a nitpick, Glen.

From reddit:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

All of the foreshadowing that lead up to last night's episode.

• 106 - Viserys, after seeing how much the Dothraki love Daenerys, becomes jealous and tries to run away saying “Who can rule without wealth or fear of love.” (Daenerys well echo this sentiment in 804 and 805)

• 204 – Daenerys “When my dragons are grown… we will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.”

• 206 – Daenerys “I will take what is mine with fire and blood.”

• 207 - Cersei Lannister “Half the Targaryens went mad, didn't they? What's the saying? "Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin."

• 210 – Daenerys has a vision of a destroyed throne room. She reaches out to the throne but never touches it.

• 303 – Daenerys when speaking about her brother Rhaegar “…he was not the last dragon.”

• 404 - Daenerys executes 163 Meereenese noblemen. In 406 we learn some of these men were innocent. Daenerys shows absolutely no regret.

• 405 – Daenerys speaking with Jorah. “You counseled me against rashness once in Qarth. I didn’t listen. It all worked out well.”

• 407 – Jorah tells Daenerys “The masters treated men like beasts, as you said. Herding the masters into pens and slaughtering them by the thousands is also treating men like beasts.” Reminding her “I wouldn't be here to help you if Ned Stark had done to me what you want to do to the masters of Yunkai.”

• 407 – Daenerys “They can live in my new world or they can die in their old one.”

• 505 – Daenerys executes an innocent Meereenese nobleman for the sole purpose of intimidating the other nobles.

• 505 – Daenerys reopens the fighting pits allowing for innocent men to kill one another for entertainment.

• 508 – Daenerys “I’m not going to stop the wheel. I’m going to break the wheel.”

• 604 – Daenerys murders the leaders of the Dothraki for the sole purpose of consolidating power.

• 606 – Dario to Daenerys “You weren’t made to sit on a chair in a palace. You’re a conquer, Daenerys Stormborn.”

• 606 – Daenerys to the Dothraki “Will you kill my enemies in their iron suits and tear down their stone houses?”

• 609 – Speaking about the masters Daenerys swears to “Kill every one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt.” Tyrion responds “You once told me you knew what your father was. Did you know his plans for King’s Landing?” Daenerys “This is entirely different!” Tyrion “You’re talking about destroying cities. It’s not entirely different.”

• 702 – Yara Greyjoy, Olenna Tyrell, and Ellaria Sand all try to convince Daenerys to use her dragons on King’s Landing. Tyrion convinces her to do otherwise. (This is important as Tyrion’s plans fail, and his repeated failures show Daenerys there’s no other option)

• 702 - Olenna Tyrell “Commoners and nobles are all children really. They won’t obey you unless they fear you.” And later. “You’re a dragon. Be a dragon.”

• 704 – After news of her army’s defeat at Casterly Rock, Daenerys questions Tyrion’s plans and his loyalty.

• 704 – Daenerys “Enough with the clever plans. I have 3 large dragons. I’m going to fly them to the red keep.”

• 705 – Daenerys executes Randal and Dickon Tarly when imprisonment was a perfectly viable option.

• 705 – Tyrion “Daenerys is not her father.” Varys “And she never will be with the right counsel. You need to find a way to make her listen.”

• 705 – Tyrion devises a convoluted plan to capture a wight to convince Cersi to help fight the night King. Over the rest of seasons 7 and 8 this plan goes horribly wrong and results in the death of a dragon. The failure of this plan further degrades Daenerys’ trust of Tyrion.

• 801 – Lyanna Mormon publically confronts Jon Snow about giving up his crown and swearing allegiance to Daenerys. This is the beginning of Daenerys’ realization that she has no love in Westeros.

• 802 – Daenerys is angry that Tyrion’s advice about Cersei turned out to be wrong. Saying “Either you are a traitor or a fool.” And “Cersei still sits on the throne. If you can’t help me take it back I will find another Hand who can.”

• 803 – Jorah is killed in battle. He has proven to be one of the few advisors Daenerys had that tried to temper her impulses.

• 804 – Daenerys sees people praising Jon Snow and becomes jealous.

• 804 – Tormund “What kind of person climbs on a fucking dragon? A madman, or a king!” (I’d like to point out when Tormund says “madman” it cuts to a shot of Dany, and when he says “or a king!” it cuts to Jon)

• 804 – Speaking about Jorah to Jon, Daenerys “He loved me and I couldn’t love him back. Not the way he wanted. Not the way I love you.” (Her love for Jon is not returned in 805)

• 804 – Daenerys “I saw them gathered around you. I saw the way they looked at you. I know that look. So many people have looked at me that way but never here.”

• 804 – Varys “These are the people you came here to protect. Do not destroy the city you came to save…” Daenerys “I’m here to save the world fromy tyrants… and I will serve it, no matter the cost.”

• 804 - Daenerys “Speaking to Cersei will not prevent a slaughter. But perhaps its good the people see Daenerys Stormborn made every effort to avoid bloodshed and Cersei Lannister refused. They should know whom to blame when the sky falls down on them.” (We should note she is directly talking about “The People” here)

• 804 – Missandei’s final words before her execution. “Dracarys”.

• 805 – Varys “They say every time a Targaryen is born, the Gods toss a coin and the world holds its breath.”

• 805 – Daenerys speaking to Jon “Far more people in Westeros love you than love me. I don’t have love here. I only have fear.”

• 805 – After a half hearted kiss with Jon, Daenerys says “Alright then. Let it be fear.” (Echoing what Viserys said in 106)

• 805 – Tyrion “The people who live there, they’re not your enemies. They’re innocents.” Daenerys “Your sister knows how to use their enemies weaknesses against them. That’s what she thinks our mercy is. Our mercy is our strength. Our mercy toward future generations who will not be held hostage by a tyrant.” (She’s all but saying she’s not going to show mercy and will butcher everyone in the city)

• 805 – Daenerys to Tyrion. “Next time your fail me will be the last time you fail me.”

And that’s just what I can remember off the top of my head.

Here’s the point. Daenerys threatened multiple times to burn cities to the ground, she executed/murdered innocent people numerous times to consolidate power, she realized without love all she has left to rule with was fear, and she grew to distrust the only advisor trying to prevent her from burning down King’s landing.

She wasn’t “acting out of character” at any point in 805. She literally did the thing she’s threatened to do for multiple seasons.

[close]

None of that really establishes a motive or internal logic that justifies Dany going from wanting to rule by fear and take her crown by whatever means to having achieved all that and deciding to start firebombing the civilians for 30 minutes so D & D can lazily wrap up some other plot threads about characters they have also horribly mismanaged.

But at this point I am just in for the spectacle. Almost as funny as the people melting down over Dany not being the savior of the story are people trying to find good writing and well thought out intent from a bunch of hack writers that broke much of the plotting to service fan fic and are now just trying to bend the characters in whatever way provides the path of least resistance that gets them to hit GRRM's story beats so they can go start fucking up Star Wars more than it already is.

[agrajag]

I like how they reloaded them instantaneously in E4 but now it's a long, laborious process to wind them up. These little things seem like nitpicks, but they are things that pop out at you and take you out of the story. To me the laziness of their execution ruins the suspension of disbelief. And it's totally relevant to tthe discussion of writing when they create a powerful plot element in one episode, to make it completely weak and feeble in the next; as it suits their needs.

[Himu]

like i said before, there's a lot of brilliant TV production craft here from all the peons who actually put the graft into making this shit, but it's embarrassing what an absolute rushed chop job it is and absolutely nothing lands as it should as a result. it's like watching a film on fast forward complete with squeaky voices and comedy movements.

the euron just popping out of the water to fight jamie is probably the laziest shit i've ever seen in a big production like this, it was like something out of hot shots. DnD don't give a fuck, and while this is clearly GRRM's napkin written ending and they had fuck all clue or desire to properly get there.

80 hours of being a paragon of virtue to becoming a mass murdering femcel in about an hour of screentime while everyone else devolves into a gawping sap staggering aimlessly to their plot destination.

Eh. I won’t claim it wasn’t rushed. I just don’t see how the claim that Dany turns into a tyrant in four seconds has merit. I can understand why someone doesn’t like it, but to say the foundation isn’t there? I just disagree.

Every single one of your complaints is a nitpick, Glen.

From reddit:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

All of the foreshadowing that lead up to last night's episode.

• 106 - Viserys, after seeing how much the Dothraki love Daenerys, becomes jealous and tries to run away saying “Who can rule without wealth or fear of love.” (Daenerys well echo this sentiment in 804 and 805)

• 204 – Daenerys “When my dragons are grown… we will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.”

• 206 – Daenerys “I will take what is mine with fire and blood.”

• 207 - Cersei Lannister “Half the Targaryens went mad, didn't they? What's the saying? "Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin."

• 210 – Daenerys has a vision of a destroyed throne room. She reaches out to the throne but never touches it.

• 303 – Daenerys when speaking about her brother Rhaegar “…he was not the last dragon.”

• 404 - Daenerys executes 163 Meereenese noblemen. In 406 we learn some of these men were innocent. Daenerys shows absolutely no regret.

• 405 – Daenerys speaking with Jorah. “You counseled me against rashness once in Qarth. I didn’t listen. It all worked out well.”

• 407 – Jorah tells Daenerys “The masters treated men like beasts, as you said. Herding the masters into pens and slaughtering them by the thousands is also treating men like beasts.” Reminding her “I wouldn't be here to help you if Ned Stark had done to me what you want to do to the masters of Yunkai.”

• 407 – Daenerys “They can live in my new world or they can die in their old one.”

• 505 – Daenerys executes an innocent Meereenese nobleman for the sole purpose of intimidating the other nobles.

• 505 – Daenerys reopens the fighting pits allowing for innocent men to kill one another for entertainment.

• 508 – Daenerys “I’m not going to stop the wheel. I’m going to break the wheel.”

• 604 – Daenerys murders the leaders of the Dothraki for the sole purpose of consolidating power.

• 606 – Dario to Daenerys “You weren’t made to sit on a chair in a palace. You’re a conquer, Daenerys Stormborn.”

• 606 – Daenerys to the Dothraki “Will you kill my enemies in their iron suits and tear down their stone houses?”

• 609 – Speaking about the masters Daenerys swears to “Kill every one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt.” Tyrion responds “You once told me you knew what your father was. Did you know his plans for King’s Landing?” Daenerys “This is entirely different!” Tyrion “You’re talking about destroying cities. It’s not entirely different.”

• 702 – Yara Greyjoy, Olenna Tyrell, and Ellaria Sand all try to convince Daenerys to use her dragons on King’s Landing. Tyrion convinces her to do otherwise. (This is important as Tyrion’s plans fail, and his repeated failures show Daenerys there’s no other option)

• 702 - Olenna Tyrell “Commoners and nobles are all children really. They won’t obey you unless they fear you.” And later. “You’re a dragon. Be a dragon.”

• 704 – After news of her army’s defeat at Casterly Rock, Daenerys questions Tyrion’s plans and his loyalty.

• 704 – Daenerys “Enough with the clever plans. I have 3 large dragons. I’m going to fly them to the red keep.”

• 705 – Daenerys executes Randal and Dickon Tarly when imprisonment was a perfectly viable option.

• 705 – Tyrion “Daenerys is not her father.” Varys “And she never will be with the right counsel. You need to find a way to make her listen.”

• 705 – Tyrion devises a convoluted plan to capture a wight to convince Cersi to help fight the night King. Over the rest of seasons 7 and 8 this plan goes horribly wrong and results in the death of a dragon. The failure of this plan further degrades Daenerys’ trust of Tyrion.

• 801 – Lyanna Mormon publically confronts Jon Snow about giving up his crown and swearing allegiance to Daenerys. This is the beginning of Daenerys’ realization that she has no love in Westeros.

• 802 – Daenerys is angry that Tyrion’s advice about Cersei turned out to be wrong. Saying “Either you are a traitor or a fool.” And “Cersei still sits on the throne. If you can’t help me take it back I will find another Hand who can.”

• 803 – Jorah is killed in battle. He has proven to be one of the few advisors Daenerys had that tried to temper her impulses.

• 804 – Daenerys sees people praising Jon Snow and becomes jealous.

• 804 – Tormund “What kind of person climbs on a fucking dragon? A madman, or a king!” (I’d like to point out when Tormund says “madman” it cuts to a shot of Dany, and when he says “or a king!” it cuts to Jon)

• 804 – Speaking about Jorah to Jon, Daenerys “He loved me and I couldn’t love him back. Not the way he wanted. Not the way I love you.” (Her love for Jon is not returned in 805)

• 804 – Daenerys “I saw them gathered around you. I saw the way they looked at you. I know that look. So many people have looked at me that way but never here.”

• 804 – Varys “These are the people you came here to protect. Do not destroy the city you came to save…” Daenerys “I’m here to save the world fromy tyrants… and I will serve it, no matter the cost.”

• 804 - Daenerys “Speaking to Cersei will not prevent a slaughter. But perhaps its good the people see Daenerys Stormborn made every effort to avoid bloodshed and Cersei Lannister refused. They should know whom to blame when the sky falls down on them.” (We should note she is directly talking about “The People” here)

• 804 – Missandei’s final words before her execution. “Dracarys”.

• 805 – Varys “They say every time a Targaryen is born, the Gods toss a coin and the world holds its breath.”

• 805 – Daenerys speaking to Jon “Far more people in Westeros love you than love me. I don’t have love here. I only have fear.”

• 805 – After a half hearted kiss with Jon, Daenerys says “Alright then. Let it be fear.” (Echoing what Viserys said in 106)

• 805 – Tyrion “The people who live there, they’re not your enemies. They’re innocents.” Daenerys “Your sister knows how to use their enemies weaknesses against them. That’s what she thinks our mercy is. Our mercy is our strength. Our mercy toward future generations who will not be held hostage by a tyrant.” (She’s all but saying she’s not going to show mercy and will butcher everyone in the city)

• 805 – Daenerys to Tyrion. “Next time your fail me will be the last time you fail me.”

And that’s just what I can remember off the top of my head.

Here’s the point. Daenerys threatened multiple times to burn cities to the ground, she executed/murdered innocent people numerous times to consolidate power, she realized without love all she has left to rule with was fear, and she grew to distrust the only advisor trying to prevent her from burning down King’s landing.

She wasn’t “acting out of character” at any point in 805. She literally did the thing she’s threatened to do for multiple seasons.

[close]

None of that really establishes a motive or internal logic that justifies Dany going from wanting to rule by fear and take her crown by whatever means to having achieved all that and deciding to start firebombing the civilians for 30 minutes so D & D can lazily wrap up some other plot threads about characters they have also horribly mismanaged.

But at this point I am just in for the spectacle. Almost as funny as the people melting down over Dany not being the savior of the story are people trying to find good writing and well thought out intent from a bunch of hack writers that broke much of the plotting to service fan fic and are now just trying to bend the characters in whatever way provides the path of least resistance that gets them to hit GRRM's story beats so they can go start fucking up Star Wars more than it already is.

We haven’t even seen the last episode though. Much less now she reacted to the destruction. Her face was never shown for a reason.  I think it’s fair and true to Dany, especially coming a book reader perspective.

Like I get criticism,, but you're not like going after anything concrete, in terms of structure or characterization or plotting. You're complaining about how rules work.  Which can certainly be annoying but like, isn't something to terribly be concerned about.

Okay, how about this:

Now all of Cersei's S5/6/7 arc gets destroyed in like half an hour. What's the point of rewatching episodes like The Winds of Winter (season 6 finale where she blows up the Sept of Baelor) now that we know that all of Cersei's machinations to get back into power get undone in 5 minutes of "battle" with previously established weapons not even being used? Everything from 2+ years amounts to a wet fart.

After everything we went through with her starting from the Walk of Shame, years of plot development ends in a few minutes with all her defenses folding like an old Toronto Raptors team against LeBron, with her scorpions firing off like 3 bolts total. She gets like 20 minutes of total screentime in the final season. Like wtf?

What does Cersei’s gaining power have anything to do with her losing it that quickly?

[agrajag]

anticlimactic endings are usually considered a failure of the writers

[Himu]

D&D have definitely fucked up though. I think most of the complaints rear from the fact they rejected doing full seasons. The entire execution was botched. I think they nailed the landing, but the flight had lots of turbulence. This would have been far more satisfying in the hands of more capable writers. But what we got last night? I don’t see any problem with it.

[headwalk]

We haven’t even seen the last episode though. Much less now she reacted to the destruction. Her face was never shown for a reason.  I think it’s fair and true to Dany, especially coming a book reader perspective.

no one's got any issue with the book's mad queen ending, more that the whole third act is written on one page. it actually makes anakin's turning in the prequels look like it has a shakespearean understanding of the truth of the human condition by comparison. a wookiepedia list of vague authoritarian sentiments, often by way of personal compromise (the fighting pits) don't explain her going full school shooter with a weapon of mass destruction against a city of screaming innocents for a whole afternoon.

it could've been great, like i said earlier the whole sansa/dany mistrust dynamic would've been a great foundation for a season long power struggle, but we got fuck all of it.

[Nola]

Don't really care enough to fight this out too much, but that is the problem with the shows approach imo, it betrayed the books arc for her too much and so this sudden shift is not established enough to be believable to her present character in the show(same goes with what has happened with a lot of characters).

Unlike the books they did a shit poor job establishing that part of her personality. Too busy chasing "My Queen!" fan fic. Power hungry, yes, a willingness to go to extremes to secure her throne, absolutely, cruelty in punishment, yep, foreshadowing with symbolism and lines of dialogue what GRRM likely told them years ago, for sure.... Suddenly going from wanting to instill fear as a ruler to committing mass genocide in the throws of unconditional surrender because you didn't get some dick and the Red Keep triggered you(per dumb and dumber)? 

The show needed some better set up is all, but without it it is jarring and I get a lot of the backlash.

[headwalk]

Unlike the books they did a shit poor job establishing that part of her personality. Too busy chasing "My Queen!" fan fic. Power hungry, yes, a willingness to go to extremes to secure her throne, absolutely, cruelty in punishment, yep, foreshadowing with symbolism and lines of dialogue what GRRM likely told them years ago, for sure.... Suddenly going from wanting to instill fear as a ruler to committing mass genocide in the throws of unconditional surrender because you didn't get some dick and the Red Keep triggered you(per dumb and dumber)? 

The show needed some better set up is all, but without it it is jarring and I get a lot of the backlash.

yeah, this is exactly it. they were so scared of pissing off tumblr normies and their yaaas queen of dragons that they avoided doing any groundwork, so instead we get a WWF heel turn.

[agrajag]

but now she has no city and no peasants to lord over..

Methinks you guys need to get your stories straight. Did she snap, or is this a premeditated intimidation tactic?

[nachobro]

@glen in the books dragon fire is supposed to be able to melt steel (unlike jet fuel) and stone

[Tasty]

[Tasty]

To me the laziness of their execution ruins the suspension of disbelief.

100% agreed with this. It feels like the physical laws of reality could be jettisoned at any point in order to suit the story's needs, and that doesn't make for satisfying storytelling.

[Tasty]

but now she has no city and no peasants to lord over..

Methinks you guys need to get your stories straight. Did she snap, or is this a premeditated intimidation tactic?

I’ve said repeatedly I think it works best to think she never planned to let them surrender and the idea of her simply snapping is stupid so not sure who you think needs to get their story straight.

Reading is fundamental.

I'm gonna go with "It was always in the back of her head, but being in the moment and seeing the Red Keep in person and having all the adrenaline of battle is what tipped the scale back towards vengeance."

[I'm a Puppy!]

I don't think you need to be like "there were no signs she'd go crazy". They were obviously there. BUT. I do think it's a bit like
Khal Drogo and baby dead? Killed the woman responsible
New husband betrays her?  Eh
2 dragons die? Small grimmace
Ser Friendzone dies right in front of her. She mourns a few minutes.
Translator dies (Which frankly was Dany's own fault)? BURN EVERYTHING DOWN!!!

Don't necessarily think it's being nit picky to be like "That's some shitty writing"

[Tasty]

If dragonfire was concussive, Night King would have been blown three miles away (still intact of course, but yeah, dude took a fire blast to the face and didn't move an inch...)

[agrajag]

but now she has no city and no peasants to lord over..

Methinks you guys need to get your stories straight. Did she snap, or is this a premeditated intimidation tactic?

I’ve said repeatedly I think it works best to think she never planned to let them surrender and the idea of her simply snapping is stupid so not sure who you think needs to get their story straight.

Reading is fundamental.

Damn you're an ass. The show is literally spelling it out for you that she snaps. "Every Targaryan is a coin flip." But you choose to ignore everything and go with your own interpretation?

[headwalk]

Glen has a point that it’s inconsistent with buildings exploding and people directly hit looking like Freddy Krueger but I don’t see where it gets you to focus so much on shit like that other than an inability’s to suspend your disbelief.  Not really something people should be proud of;  yay you enjoyed something less!

you flip between "just turn off your brain bro" for things that blatantly don't work and "of course it makes sense, you clearly just haven't thought about this subtle foreshadowing" for massive missing chunks of character development.

like it's simultaneously too smart and too dumb for everyone who thinks it's all a bit trash.