"A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics

[Mandark]

Yeah, I think you're talking about this: http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2011/0207_education_loveless.aspx


Really, the idea that teachers unions are ruining public education is silly on its face.

    Only 5 states do not have collective bargaining for educators and have deemed it illegal. Those states and their ranking on ACT/SAT scores are as follows:

    South Carolina – 50th
    North Carolina – 49th
    Georgia – 48th
    Texas – 47th
    Virginia – 44th

    If you are wondering, Wisconsin, with its collective bargaining for teachers, is ranked 2nd in the country. Let’s keep it that way.

Maybe that's not the best metric, but if unions were really the overwhelming factor here, wouldn't those states be whupping up on everyone else in some measurable way?

[Mupepe]

Jesus Christo.  Texas

[Mandark]

That doesn't include benefits though, like all the hand-shaped construction-paper turkeys you want, thanks to free child labor.

[Mr. Gundam]

I'm a school pyschologist, not a teacher, but I am part of the teacher's union. My big problem with the current structure is that it is basically impossible to get rid of bad teachers due to seniority. If you're not fired within your first two years in the profession, you're pretty much set for life as long as you don't hit a kid or sleep with them.

I'm on the same pay scale as teachers and make around $55,000 a year with a Master's degree and five years experience. I'd love to make more, but I can't really complain too much, what with great benefits, a pension, and summers off.

[Groogrux]

YOU'RE NOT HELPING 

[Brehvolution]

I'm a school pyschologist, not a teacher, but I am part of the teacher's union. My big problem with the current structure is that it is basically impossible to get rid of bad teachers due to seniority. If you're not fired within your first two years in the profession, you're pretty much set for life as long as you don't hit a kid or sleep with them.

I'm on the same pay scale as teachers and make around $55,000 a year with a Master's degree and five years experience. I'd love to make more, but I can't really complain too much, what with great benefits, a pension, and summers off.

Socialism

[Oblivion]

Seems like Obama firing up his base, and finally realizing the people who'll hate this decision were never going to vote for him anyway.

Prolly woulda helped if he did this before the election, eh?

[Oblivion]

It's the bigger picture, Beardo. Busting a union has NOTHING to do with a budget and everything to do with killing off a large democratic donor.

So thats all Public unions are? A "large democratic doner."

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Clearly worth every tax payer dollar.

[close]

While I agree we should make the system more efficient, personally, I'd rather have my tax dollars go to teachers than to fucks that helped crash the economy.

[Phoenix Dark]

It's the bigger picture, Beardo. Busting a union has NOTHING to do with a budget and everything to do with killing off a large democratic donor.

So thats all Public unions are? A "large democratic doner."

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Clearly worth every tax payer dollar.

[close]

While I agree we should make the system more efficient, personally, I'd rather have my tax dollars go to teachers than to fucks that helped crash the economy.

If by that you mean African Americans who bought homes they couldn't afford, I agree

[Oblivion]

It's the bigger picture, Beardo. Busting a union has NOTHING to do with a budget and everything to do with killing off a large democratic donor.

So thats all Public unions are? A "large democratic doner."

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Clearly worth every tax payer dollar.

[close]

While I agree we should make the system more efficient, personally, I'd rather have my tax dollars go to teachers than to fucks that helped crash the economy.

If by that you mean African Americans who bought homes they couldn't afford, I agree

Who else could I be referring to?

[TakingBackSunday]

can we just round up every kook who treats the constitution as an irreversible NEOBIBLE and just shoot them

[Dickie Dee]

Sheeple mobbing up and going after f'n schoolteachers as the reason why things are in the shitter has me convinced that we're forever fucked. It's erased any semblance of optimism I had about this POS country.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

Sheeple mobbing up and going after f'n schoolteachers as the reason why things are in the shitter has me convinced that we're forever fucked. It's erased any semblance of optimism I had about this POS country.

I'm really confused as to why there are so many republicans?  Not that there's an overwhelming majority of them in America, but why are there as many as they are.

They've become a party of naked corporate interest and are against every sort of social change.  They're against the...
-schoolaged persons
-college students
-immigrants
-children of immigrants
-poor and middle class
-non white persons
-intellectuals
-rights of women
-rights of anybody who doesn't want to get shot
-gay and transgendered people

who else does leave besides dumb and willfully ignorant honkeys, who are by and large the tea party/conservative movement?  They just get so much done because they're the most vocal of all groups and the most easily manipulated/exploited for votes.

[Human Snorenado]

Meh, that wasn't too bad.


Politics and sausage making blah blah blah.

[proof that Walker believes this is the first part of a multi-pronged plan to cripple unions nationally]

Beardo:  JUST SOME LAWS BEING MADE, DOOP A DOOP

Jesus, you really are fucking distinguished mentally-challenged, aren't you?

Also, too:



Republicans fucked up this time.  There's too many middle class white people still in unions to properly demonize them with the REAL MURKIN crowd.  It doesn't work as well when you start picking on emts, teachers, cops and firefighters.

[Dickie Dee]

First, it's remarkable Ian Murphy, pretending to be Koch, even got through. He talked to Walker's chief of staff, Keith Gilkes, and said he couldn't leave a return number because, "My goddamn maid, Maria, put my phone in the washer. I'd have her deported, but she works for next to nothing." This, oddly enough, led Gilkes to invite "Koch" to call back and speak directly to the governor.

[Oblivion]

Somebody should call Walker's office again tomorrow, but disguised as Charles Koch this time.

[Phoenix Dark]

It was so obvious the conservative response would be "bubububu Soros/Andy Stern/etc visits Obama all the time!" Yea and all those visits are in the WH log. The fact that Koch has such command over Walker is troubling. He basically sounds like a dog trying to impress its owner

[Beardo]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3877174,00.html

Gaddafi: Barakeh Obama is friend

Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi considers the US president a blessing to the Muslim world. In a speech published in London-based al-Hayat newspaper on Saturday, Gaddafi praised Barack Obama, called him a "friend" and said there is no longer any dispute between his country and the US.
 
Speaking in the Libyan city of Sirt at an event marking the 24th anniversary of an American attack on Libya, he said, "At the time, we were the target of the American cannon, the American navy challenged us in the gulf of Sirt and attacked us all along Libya's shores. America tested Libya, and the Libyan people resisted the large country, but today, thank God, the difference is great."

He said, "Now, ruling America is a black man from our continent, an African from Arab descent, from Muslim descent, and this is something we never imagined – that from Reagan we would get to Barakeh Obama."
 
Gaddafi stressed that Obama's presidency is "a major historical gain" and said, "He is someone I consider a friend. He knows he is a son of Africa. Regardless of his African belonging, he is of Arab Sudanese descent, or of Muslim descent. He is a man whose policy should be supported, and he should be assisted in implementing it in any way possible, since he is now leaning towards peace."
 
He continued, "I urge all peoples to give him this chance and to support this policy, because America is a country that, when its policy is bad – harms the world, and when it is good – it helps the world."
 
The Libyan leader also expressed hopes that, "the dream that Obama has for a world free of nuclear weapons will come true. This is something that no previous American president has proposed. Obama is a man who opposes wars that previous American presidents were entangled in; he has declared that he will withdraw from Afghanistan and Iraq – something which has never been proposed before."
 
Despite the warm sentiments towards the American leader, he stressed, "The Arabs hate America, there is no doubt. There is not an Arab that loves America, and even the leaders who the United States considers allies or friends – hate it. The external love is merely hypocrisy or pragmatism. The reason for this is clear – Palestine."

In this context he said, "The Palestinians today are like the Jews of the past – dispersed in exile and persecuted. Now the Palestinians are at a point where they deserve to have the United States on their side and not on the side of the Israelis."
 
He reiterated his demand to allow the millions of Palestinian refugees around the world to return to the land where, according to his vision, a nuke-free democratic state by the name of Isratine should be established.

So who do you think will win the Democrat nomination next election?

[Great Rumbler]

"Barack Obama is my friend, man! Honest! Like, my best friend! Don't bomb me please."

[Beardo]

Real Talk:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Jimmy Carter 2.0

[close]

[Great Rumbler]

Wasn't it proven ages ago that Gaddafi is completely insane?

[Dickie Dee]

I know this question gets asked about every second page, but really, Beardo, are you this fucking distinguished mentally-challenged?

[Beardo]

Wasn't it proven ages ago that Gaddafi is completely insane?

You're not making a very good argument.

[Great Rumbler]

[youtube=560,345]pCbmfAdo8G8[/youtube]

[Phoenix Dark]

He also called Obama his son. Should we believe that too, Beardo? Also I would have thought the Carter comparisons would go out the window after Obama passed more major legislation than any president since LBJ.

[Van Cruncheon]

obama is reagan 2.0

which is not a compliment

[Mr. Gundam]

Wasn't it proven ages ago that Gaddafi is completely insane?

This is the same guy who tried to pitch a tent and camp in the middle of NYC.

[Mandark]

As long as we're scoring dumb partisan points rather than saying anything halfway smart about current events (ie Beardo is posting), let's remember that the thawing of relations with Qaddafi's Libya was meant to be one of the big successes of the Bush administration, and a direct effect of the awesome Iraq war.

[Mr. Gundam]

The local right wing radio guys here in Seattle pretty much just said that Gadhafi is nuts and it doesn't mean a thing.

[Phoenix Dark]

Even the radical righties are sensible in Seattle? damn

[Positive Touch]

Minuteman Vigilante Shawna Forde Sentenced to Death

The anti-immigration activist who was convicted last week of first-degree murder for her involvement in the May 2009 murders of nine-year-old Brisenia Flores and her father Raul, has been sentenced with the death penalty.

CNN reports that the jury’s unanimous decision is binding:
 
"If the jury had not voted for the death penalty, the judge would have decided whether Shawna Forde should have received life with a chance of parole after 35 years or life with no possibility of parole.
Forde was convicted February 14 on eight counts, including two counts of murder for the shooting deaths of Raul Flores and his daughter, Brisenia, and the attempted murder of the child’s mother, Gina Gonzales."

On May 20, 2009, Forde and two alleged accomplices stormed the Flores’ home in Arivaca, Arizona. Two men killed Raul Flores Jr. and shot his wife and Brisenia’s mother Gina Gonzalez before shooting the 9-year-old girl point-blank. Gonzalez testified during the trial that she could hear her daughter, roused from her sleep in the living room where she was camped out so she could be close to the family’s new dog, ask why her parents had been killed, then silence as the shooter stopped to reload a gun, and finally two shots that went through the little girl’s head.

Forde reportedly planned elaborate heists of suspected drug dealers as a way to fund her anti-immigrant activism and her splinter group, The Minuteman American Defense. Nothing besides pot residue was found in the Flores home, according to Terry Greene Sterling. MAD was inspired by the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps, and both groups recruited civilians to patrol the border for migrants attempting to enter the country. Forde was found with Gonzalez’s wedding ring.

During the trial and sentencing phase, Forde’s defense was very disciplined about crafting a portrait of an unstable woman, a big talker with little follow-through. The prosecution argued she could have been both a braggart and a murderer. After Forde was convicted, she reportedly called a press conference. Forde’s defense asked psychologist Dr. Judith Becker how Forde’s actions, including the fact that she called for a press conference, should be interpreted.

“That does not surprise me,” Becker testified, the Green Valley News and Sun reported. “It shows poor judgment.”

Such information is crucial for shaping a jury’s understanding of a person’s health and frame of mind. It’s also a useful way to help anti-immigrant groups like Federation for American Immigration Reform, which have since tried to distance themselves from Forde, further disassociate themselves from one of their former members. Anti-immigrant groups may not want anything to do with Forde these days, but she certainly thought of herself as one of them.

Much of the chatter on the lefty blogs and immigrant rights networks in the weeks of the trial has been dominated by bitter confusion about the lack of media coverage the case got. As Gabe wrote last week, the tragic deaths of two 9-year-old Arizona girls received very different public responses. It may be that the country is not interested in the scary lessons that Brisenia Flores’ murder offers about the real life consequences of the national discourse surrounding immigrants.

i think this falls solidly in the "glad that she's gonna die" catagory.  good fucking riddance

[Mupepe]

There are a bunch of people who see her as a martyr.  Yeesh.  I even overheard a convo here at work the other day about her and let's just say it made me ashamed of humanity.

[Mr. Gundam]

Even the radical righties are sensible in Seattle? damn

They tow the party line, but even they know when a crazy dictator is a crazy dictator.

[Great Rumbler]

There are a bunch of people who see her as a martyr.  Yeesh.  I even overheard a convo here at work the other day about her and let's just say it made me ashamed of humanity.

A martyr? 

[Boogie]

Minuteman Vigilante Shawna Forde Sentenced to Death

The anti-immigration activist who was convicted last week of first-degree murder for her involvement in the May 2009 murders of nine-year-old Brisenia Flores and her father Raul, has been sentenced with the death penalty.

CNN reports that the jury’s unanimous decision is binding:
 
"If the jury had not voted for the death penalty, the judge would have decided whether Shawna Forde should have received life with a chance of parole after 35 years or life with no possibility of parole.
Forde was convicted February 14 on eight counts, including two counts of murder for the shooting deaths of Raul Flores and his daughter, Brisenia, and the attempted murder of the child’s mother, Gina Gonzales."

On May 20, 2009, Forde and two alleged accomplices stormed the Flores’ home in Arivaca, Arizona. Two men killed Raul Flores Jr. and shot his wife and Brisenia’s mother Gina Gonzalez before shooting the 9-year-old girl point-blank. Gonzalez testified during the trial that she could hear her daughter, roused from her sleep in the living room where she was camped out so she could be close to the family’s new dog, ask why her parents had been killed, then silence as the shooter stopped to reload a gun, and finally two shots that went through the little girl’s head.

Forde reportedly planned elaborate heists of suspected drug dealers as a way to fund her anti-immigrant activism and her splinter group, The Minuteman American Defense. Nothing besides pot residue was found in the Flores home, according to Terry Greene Sterling. MAD was inspired by the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps, and both groups recruited civilians to patrol the border for migrants attempting to enter the country. Forde was found with Gonzalez’s wedding ring.

During the trial and sentencing phase, Forde’s defense was very disciplined about crafting a portrait of an unstable woman, a big talker with little follow-through. The prosecution argued she could have been both a braggart and a murderer. After Forde was convicted, she reportedly called a press conference. Forde’s defense asked psychologist Dr. Judith Becker how Forde’s actions, including the fact that she called for a press conference, should be interpreted.

“That does not surprise me,” Becker testified, the Green Valley News and Sun reported. “It shows poor judgment.”

Such information is crucial for shaping a jury’s understanding of a person’s health and frame of mind. It’s also a useful way to help anti-immigrant groups like Federation for American Immigration Reform, which have since tried to distance themselves from Forde, further disassociate themselves from one of their former members. Anti-immigrant groups may not want anything to do with Forde these days, but she certainly thought of herself as one of them.

Much of the chatter on the lefty blogs and immigrant rights networks in the weeks of the trial has been dominated by bitter confusion about the lack of media coverage the case got. As Gabe wrote last week, the tragic deaths of two 9-year-old Arizona girls received very different public responses. It may be that the country is not interested in the scary lessons that Brisenia Flores’ murder offers about the real life consequences of the national discourse surrounding immigrants.

i think this falls solidly in the "glad that she's gonna die" catagory.  good fucking riddance

May she burn in hell.

[Human Snorenado]

Hell is too good for her, and fictional besides.  May she spend eternity at a Mexican food market.

[Oblivion]

[Beardo]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/03/02/moore_on_wealthy_peoples_money_thats_not_theirs_thats_a_national_resource_its_ours.html

"They're sitting on the money, they're using it for their own -- they're putting it someplace else with no interest in helping you with your life, with that money. We've allowed them to take that. That's not theirs, that's a national resource, that's ours. We all have this -- we all benefit from this or we all suffer as a result of not having it," Michael Moore told Laura Flanders of GRITtv.

"I think we need to go back to taxing these people at the proper rates. They need to -- we need to see these jobs as something we some, that we collectively own as Americans and you can't just steal our jobs and take them someplace else," Moore concluded.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not your money sir.

[close]

lawl

[Groogrux]

Not that I'm a Michael Moore advocate, because I am most certainly not, but I think the point he is trying to make is that the rich keep getting richer while the poor keep getting poorer.  A fact well known to all people of this world.  What he's also saying is that the wealthy should have a higher taxes and stop outsourcing American jobs to third-world countries. 

I don't think he wants them to give him their money.

[Great Rumbler]

I really don't like one bit the current thinking that we can't tax rich people more because "Well, then they'll stop creating more jobs or, like, fire a whole bunch of people and then we'll be worse off" as if we ought bend over backwards to placate billionaires out of fear of economic retaliation.

[Van Cruncheon]

americans worship the wealthy. they are our godhead; our avatars of success. you don't diminish god with your heresy.

on the other hand, filthy poors are PROOF of the morality of our system. they are the punished, and when they lack penitence, they must be LEARN'T BUT GOOD.

that's the job the middle class has taken upon itself: sociocultural hierophancy, fat little epopts of the monied gods, who vocally and obstreperously petition for an unlikely ascension into heaven through fawning and parroting a destructive dogma. the wealthy don't care, and perhaps even hate their willing priests, because to them, there is no difference between a priest and a pauper save that the priest expects favors.

[Mandark]

$50k/year teachers are leeching off too much money from the rest of us and need to be crushed, while billionaires deserve what they have fairly gotten.

lolwut?

[Van Cruncheon]

i'm starting to think it isn't so much about the idea that the wealthy DESERVE their wealth, but that americans believe their economic salvation LIES with these crony capitalist aristocrats, and deserving or no, they only way we will get anything is to LEAVE THESE CAPTAINS ALONE and let them share their wealth with us -- that access to the annals of wealth is obtained through fealty and obeisance to the preferred credo of the 2% pantheon. the american middle class has been beaten into whimpering submission by the alphas, and now begs kindly for a dram or two, if that wouldn't put anyone out, and really who ARE these other people daring to demand from YOU, the GIVERS, now could you in your glorious wisdom and embodiment of american ideals deign to employ us?

teachers? what are teachers? they teach the wrong things, and make our kids into secular heretics who will not adopt the tribal dogma we need to SURVIVE as a cohesive whole. the world is dangerous and we must circle our wagons and push out the outsiders and the leeches and PRAY TO OUR GODS FOR SALVATION

basically, we're goin' medieval on ourselves.

[Beardo]

The idea that rich people's money is a "national resource" and a community commodity is pretty shocking. But, I'm guessing nobody here agrees.

[Van Cruncheon]

what do YOU think it is, beardo?

[Beardo]

It's also funny to hear Moore talk about Rich people as  "Them" and "they."

I guess multi-millionaire is the new working class.  

[Mupepe]

No.  It's idea that their wealth is built on the backs of others and to a certain extent should be distributed to better everyone and in turn keep the cycle going that keeps their fatasses rich.

And the reason why so many Americans believe rich people are untouchable is that we're raised to believe that if we work hard enough that will be us and when we're there we don't want someone taking it from us because by god, if you're not there you just didn't work hard enough for it.  

[Great Rumbler]

Rich people deserve to be allowed to be rich, but when we're having to contemplate slashing teacher salaries and fire them en mass, maybe, just maybe, we ought to consider letting the people with the fattest wallets and the greatest ability to spend considerably more without harming their ability to provide basic care for themselves and their family cough up a little bit extra to help the cause.

[Van Cruncheon]

personally, all money is just a representation of an explicitly or implicitly negotiated transaction between two or more parties. it is a manifestation of a social behavior and cannot exist without a community or society. it has only extrinisic value, the parameters of which are determined by a society's participants. as such, it is a piece of the social consciousness made manifest for purposes of common contract and exchange.

does that make it a "national resource"? i have no fucking idea what a "national resource" *is*. is it a commodity? anything that can be bought and sold is a commodity, and contracts in ANY form -- even paper, even digital, even handshakes -- can be bought and sold. does it belong to a community? it EXISTS at the whim of a community.

what is money supposed to be otherwise -- especially "rich people's money"?

[Beardo]

Since none of you guys think money is private property, you wont mind if I just take a little bit from your bank accounts do you?

Thanks guys!

[Van Cruncheon]

Since none of you guys think money is private property, you wont mind if I just take a little bit from your bank accounts do you?

Thanks guys!

did we negotiate a contract for you to do that?

[Van Cruncheon]

No.  It's idea that their wealth is built on the backs of others and to a certain extent should be distributed to better everyone and in turn keep the cycle going that keeps their fatasses rich.

And the reason why so many Americans believe rich people are untouchable is that we're raised to believe that if we work hard enough that will be us and when we're there we don't want someone taking it from us because by god, if you're not there you just didn't work hard enough for it.  

it's worse than that. the fear is that if money becomes devalued as the validator of success, our society will fall apart and the hippies will gay rape all of our pets while we are forced to sing folk music and wear beads.

[Beardo]

Ffffuuuu

I just remembered that "private property is a foreign concept to you fegs.

did we negotiate a contract for you to do that?

Meh I just take what I want whenever I need it. It's the only way to be fair really.

[Mupepe]

Since none of you guys think money is private property, you wont mind if I just take a little bit from your bank accounts do you?

Thanks guys!

you can't be this hard headed.  You really can't.  no one is advocating pillaging their bank accounts.  what's said is that when shit hits the fan, rich people, who can afford the cost much easier than the average person, should be forced to sacrifice some in order to keep the system that allows their lifestyle stable.  Deciding now is not the best time to buy that extra yacht is not the same thing as deciding that now is not the best time to take my child to the doctor.

[Beardo]

Since none of you guys think money is private property, you wont mind if I just take a little bit from your bank accounts do you?

Thanks guys!

you can't be this hard headed.  You really can't.  no one is advocating pillaging their bank accounts.  what's said is that when shit hits the fan, rich people, who can afford the cost much easier than the average person, should be forced to sacrifice some in order to keep the system that allows their lifestyle stable.  Deciding now is not the best time to buy that extra yacht is not the same thing as deciding that now is not the best time to take my child to the doctor.

How are you gonna enforce this sacrifice?

[Great Rumbler]

Since none of you guys think money is private property, you wont mind if I just take a little bit from your bank accounts do you?

Thanks guys!

you can't be this hard headed.  You really can't.  no one is advocating pillaging their bank accounts.  what's said is that when shit hits the fan, rich people, who can afford the cost much easier than the average person, should be forced to sacrifice some in order to keep the system that allows their lifestyle stable.  Deciding now is not the best time to buy that extra yacht is not the same thing as deciding that now is not the best time to take my child to the doctor.

How are you gonna enforce this sacrifice?

Taxes?

[Van Cruncheon]

Ffffuuuu

I just remembered that "private property is a foreign concept to you distinguished effete fellows.

did we negotiate a contract for you to do that?

Meh I just take what I want whenever I need it. It's the only way to be fair really.

private property is a social contract. i agree to stay outta your shit if you agree to stay out of mine. (legal disputes that arise when we can't agree on who owns what notwithstanding.) we supersede that in specific instances through separate, localized contracts between individuals. if society by and large says FUCK YOU to the idea of private property, then it is as if PRIVATE PROPERTY NEVER EXISTED.

same thing for money. we as a society agree that it should have representational value. if we decide that the notion of currency is antiquated and that all exchanges and transaction must be represented as interpretative dance installations, then MONEY DOESN'T EXIST FOR US.

rich people are rich because society thinks that it is okay to consolidate power and influence through currency. it can, quite easily, think it is less and less okay if the abuses become too egregious. if we wish to maintain a stable status quo -- to avoid swift and transformative changes in society -- we must REGULATE it, and that means tweaking a few valves and running some of that currency, influence, and power from areas of inordinately high concentration to those areas starkly deprived of it. taxes are the easiest way to do it. revolutions happen to be more exciting, though.

socialism has failed for the same reason -- power and influence, through bureaucracy and hierarchy rather than currency -- stifled too many people for too long, and out came the forces of balance with their pitchforks and torches. perhaps if the erstwhile trotskyites had agreed to share their power a little broader and with a little less force de rigeur, they woulda survived and even thrived. perhaps we will get the chance to say the same about democratic capitalists. let's find out!

[Beardo]

Since none of you guys think money is private property, you wont mind if I just take a little bit from your bank accounts do you?

Thanks guys!

you can't be this hard headed.  You really can't.  no one is advocating pillaging their bank accounts.  what's said is that when shit hits the fan, rich people, who can afford the cost much easier than the average person, should be forced to sacrifice some in order to keep the system that allows their lifestyle stable.  Deciding now is not the best time to buy that extra yacht is not the same thing as deciding that now is not the best time to take my child to the doctor.

How are you gonna enforce this sacrifice?

Taxes?

And if they choose not to pay?

[Great Rumbler]

Since none of you guys think money is private property, you wont mind if I just take a little bit from your bank accounts do you?

Thanks guys!

you can't be this hard headed.  You really can't.  no one is advocating pillaging their bank accounts.  what's said is that when shit hits the fan, rich people, who can afford the cost much easier than the average person, should be forced to sacrifice some in order to keep the system that allows their lifestyle stable.  Deciding now is not the best time to buy that extra yacht is not the same thing as deciding that now is not the best time to take my child to the doctor.

How are you gonna enforce this sacrifice?

Taxes?

And if they choose not to pay?

What happens when YOU don't pay YOUR taxes?

[Beardo]

Rich people are rich because other people dont steal their money!!!