"A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics

[Van Cruncheon]

Im a liberal and I want to lose weight, Im gonna go gorge on twinkies cause its clearly a better solution than not eating.

i'm a conservative and i'm starving to death, i'd like some of that government cheese but dying seems like a better solution

[FlameOfCallandor]

Im a liberal and I want to lose weight, Im gonna go gorge on twinkies cause its clearly a better solution than not eating.

i'm a conservative and i'm starving to death, i'd like some of that government cheese but dying seems like a better solution

If government were the only place to get cheese that I might agree with you.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I want to hear you say that Bush saved american jobs (however small you think that may be) by invading Iraq. I bet haliburten was stimulated.

[brawndolicious]

Actually I'm pretty sure most of the workers are either local or shipped in from third world countries who will probably work for really cheap from some story or documentary I saw a couple years ago.  The materials definitely come from the surrounding region though.  Apparently a good deal from Iran so woo.

[Barry Egan]

thanks for the link Drinky, this article is really informative for someone not well versed in economic theory.

Moreover, the classic right-wing critique fails to explain how the economy recovered at all. In one of his columns touting Shlaes, George Will observed that "the war, not the New Deal, defeated the Depression." Why, though, did the war defeat the Depression? Because it entailed a massive expansion of government spending. The Republicans who have been endlessly making the anti-stimulus case seem not to realize that, if you believe that the war ended the Depression, then you are a Keynesian.

wow. Jaydubya am cry  :'(

[Phoenix Dark]

thanks for the link Drinky, this article is really informative for someone not well versed in economic theory.

Moreover, the classic right-wing critique fails to explain how the economy recovered at all. In one of his columns touting Shlaes, George Will observed that "the war, not the New Deal, defeated the Depression." Why, though, did the war defeat the Depression? Because it entailed a massive expansion of government spending. The Republicans who have been endlessly making the anti-stimulus case seem not to realize that, if you believe that the war ended the Depression, then you are a Keynesian.

wow. Jaydubya am cry  :'(

I never thought of it that way lol. Mind fuck total

[Cheebs]

They'll never admit their wrong though, I mean they still don't admit FDR helped save the economy in the 30's. If in 4 years the economy is showing signs of getting better, Obama re-elected...etc they'll find some new excuse to explain it away that doesn't include Obama's massive changes and expansion.

[Cheebs]

they're  :'(

[Phoenix Dark]

I propose a $69 Michigan teenagers million grammar stimulus 

[AdmiralViscen]

Im a liberal and I want to lose weight, Im gonna go gorge on twinkies cause its clearly a better solution than not eating.

i'm a conservative and i'm starving to death, i'd like some of that government cheese but dying seems like a better solution

If government were the only place to get cheese that I might agree with you.

so your claim is that non-government entities are in the mood for laying down big new investments on american soil right now?

[Mandark]

I want to hear you say that Bush saved american jobs (however small you think that may be) by invading Iraq. I bet haliburten was stimulated.

The Iraq war wasn't fought during a recession.  Doof doof.

[Van Cruncheon]

keynesianism suggests that the government CUT spending and build a surplus during boom, anyhow!

[Human Snorenado]

keynesianism suggests that the government CUT spending and build a surplus during boom, anyhow!

A spending freeze, you say?  Truly we're all Keynesians now. 

[Mandark]

Yep.  The big liberal Keynesian criticisms of Bush's fiscal policy the first term were 1) aiming the tax cuts at the higher brackets during the recession (giving less bang for the buck cause rich people tend to save) and 2) creating a structural deficit with the tax cuts and the Iraq war that shouldn't exist during an expansion.

Which reminds me, how did the entire Republican party go from supporting fiscal stimulus in 2001 to pretending it has no effect on the economy in 2009?  It's not even "we'd really prefer this in the form of tax cuts" or "the long-term costs will outweigh the benefits", it's "government has never created a single job!!!~!"

  Political movements where Newt Gingrich is considered a genius

[ToxicAdam]

I dunno, I remember most people scoffing at Bush's measley 300 dollar infusions. He just had the polticial capital (post-9/11) to get it done.

---

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid hoped to win enough GOP votes for the spending bill to offset Democratic nays

Republicans are holding back the country again!!

Several Republicans whose support Reid had anticipated did not deliver, but the most costly defection was that of  Sen. Robert Menendez (N.J.), a member of the Democratic leadership, in protest of a little-noticed Cuba provision that would ease U.S. rules on travel and imports to the communist-led island.

The Menendez rebellion was a jolt of political reality for Reid,  House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Obama, signaling that the solidarity of the stimulus debate is fading as Democratic lawmakers are starting to read the fine print of the bills they will wrestle with in the coming weeks and months, and not always liking what they see.

Stuff it with earmarks! You know what to do.

[Mandark]

$300 lump sum stimulus checks were in Bush's second term.

[ToxicAdam]

http://www.nber.org/digest/apr05/w10784.html

Is it just semantics you're debating here? They were tax rebates, but still cash-in-hand ala the stimulus checks.

[Mandark]

Oh, I thought you were talking about the later ones.

What I mean is that my post was referring to the semi-permanent marginal rate cuts, which were pushed as a way to boost the economy, and which were criticized by Brad DeLong etc. for being poorly targeted and inefficient.

[ToxicAdam]

Cap n trade, the final dagger in the midwestern manufacturing base.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123655590609066021.html#printMode

The Congressional Budget Office -- Mr. Orszag's former roost -- estimates that the price hikes from a 15% cut in emissions would cost the average household in the bottom-income quintile about 3.3% of its after-tax income every year. That's about $680, not including the costs of reduced employment and output. The three middle quintiles would see their paychecks cut between $880 and $1,500, or 2.9% to 2.7% of income. The rich would pay 1.7%. Cap and trade is the ideal policy for every Beltway analyst who thinks the tax code is too progressive (all five of them).

But the greatest inequities are geographic and would be imposed on the parts of the U.S. that rely most on manufacturing or fossil fuels -- particularly coal, which generates most power in the Midwest, Southern and Plains states. It's no coincidence that the liberals most invested in cap and trade -- Barbara Boxer, Henry Waxman, Ed Markey -- come from California or the Northeast.

[Mandark]

Looks like the costs to the bottom quintile are offset by the refundable credit, so yay.

[ToxicAdam]

except for the whole "reduced(loss of) employment or output" thingy. Yay.

[Mandark]

The lost output and jobs are assumptions of the nameless WSJ editor.  If the money's recycled back into the economy via tax cuts, I don't see where a big net negative would come from.

Like with trade, the real problems (which will be pretty frightening to coal mining towns) are distributional.

Actual clean coal would smooth over a ton of this, but that's assuming a can opener at this point.

[ToxicAdam]

A get worried about a cap and trade system has been on the table for over 6 years now and no one has done a proper study into how many job losses this could/would incur. The CBO gently says that 80,000 coal workers would be effected, but then doesn't measure the  collateral job losses of the communities that rely on that industry (significant). Nor does it estimate how many manufacturing companies could move/relocate because of these higher costs.

The same kind of information that was missing from the lips of politicians before NAFTA was passed.

The only estimates I could find is from a right-wing think tank study that pegs it to about 600-700k by 2015. But that seems inflated.

[siamesedreamer]

Dr. Doom strikes again:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29598949

He appears to be getting more and more pessemistic. Unemployent well above 10%? What does that mean? 12-13%? In his latest RGE post he says the equities markets could go to 5000/500.

Anyone have a good argument for the SEC suspending the uptick rule? Seems like reinstating it could mitigate some of the losses. 

[Human Snorenado]

Yeah, imo keeping unemployment below 10% has always been a pipe dream.  To be honest, though, a 36 month recession would be a pretty good end result of all the stupid, stupid decisions that have been made.  I want to see what they're going to do with financial regulation- if Gramm-Leach-Bliley doesn't go away then it's a real failure.

[FlameOfCallandor]

What is this?
[youtube=560,345]FoCsFsU_irY[/youtube]

[siamesedreamer]

What is this?

Buyer's Remorse

[recursivelyenumerable]

how does that count as a "slam"

[Ganhyun]

Eh, figured I'd post it here. Heard it on the radio this morning.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N09478499.htm

[Van Cruncheon]

Eh, figured I'd post it here. Heard it on the radio this morning.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N09478499.htm

Klaus, whose position is largely ceremonial in the Czech political system

[Eric P]

i don't think that detracts from what he's saying.  I know a few post-communist immigrants  and they're really anti-government intervention because of how the 20th century political process operated in those parts of the world.

[ToxicAdam]

I thought that occurred pre 9-11. 

Hey, I think you are right.


-- --

Has our transition into socialism occurred yet? I'm getting tired of waiting.

[Eric P]

I thought that occurred pre 9-11. 

Hey, I think you are right.


-- --

Has our transition into socialism occurred yet? I'm getting tired of waiting.

are your boots leather and shiny or is all of your outfit grey and sooty?

those are the first two indicators, i think

[Human Snorenado]

Also, are you currently posting this from a bread line?  If so, does your neighborhood soup kitchen have wireless?  If it does, we're still not in a depression yet and you're not a socialist.

[ToxicAdam]

Nope.

Speaking of cliche's, this new depression has been a bust so far. No cardboard in my shoes, no soup lines, no milling about street corners looking for daily labor jobs.


I'm starting to think our great grandparents exagerrated the whole era so we would feel guilty for wanting new shit all the time as kids. A bogeyman to keep us in line.

[Van Cruncheon]

on the plus side, we can exaggerate it for our own grandkids' discomfort and shame. if we aren't all dead from aids and/or global warming, of course.

[Van Cruncheon]

i don't think that detracts from what he's saying.  I know a few post-communist immigrants  and they're really anti-government intervention because of how the 20th century political process operated in those parts of the world.

oddly, i know a fair few who really despise capitalism on account of how badly they botched the transition in the post-gorbachev years. capitalism has NOT been kind to russia and its former affiliated states.

[Eric P]

i know only one of those.

[ToxicAdam]

Capitalism in new areas of the world works pretty good if you can ignore brief transition time where mean people with guns terrorize locals and shake down and drive out competition and eventually become respectable businesspeople.

[Eric P]

ah yes, the temporary Mafiacracy

russia's going to escape that any minute now

[Human Snorenado]

In Soviet Russia, state kills journalist!  No joke, we just do.

[brawndolicious]

oddly, i know a fair few who really despise capitalism on account of how badly they botched the transition in the post-gorbachev years. capitalism has NOT been kind to russia and its former affiliated states.

yeah, the free market comes way before the free press.

I think Chinese and Singaporeans feel the opposite way though.

[Phoenix Dark]

Sam Stein obtained an email from Sen. John McCain's chief of staff that suggested the Arizona senator was putting together a major economic plan structured, in some ways, off of Newt Gingrich's famous "Contract With America."

The email asked an outside adviser for help with a "ten principles" program that the senator could use as a "definitive" platform to rescue America's economy. However, the only policy guidance given was "No Tax Increases."

The fact that McCain is going to outside consultants suggests he "is laying the groundwork for more comprehensive opposition."

http://politicalwire.com/

no words

[siamesedreamer]

Because it was only a matter of time:

House Democrats are looking at yet another economic stimulus bill beyond the $787 billion one just enacted as investors and consumers continue to show little faith in the economy.

At a special meeting of the Democratic Steering and Policy Committee on Tuesday morning, Democrats heard again from their trusted band of economists and came away reinforced that Congress would need to spend billions of additional taxpayer dollars in the coming months to help pull the economy out its severe recession.

One proposal being considered is an additional economic stimulus bill. Just last month, President Obama signed a $787 billion stimulus measure that Democrats contended was needed to save or create 3.5 million jobs and that Republicans derided as nothing more than debt-spending on wasteful federal projects.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/house-dems-eyeing-another-stimulus-bill-2009-03-10.html

This was a forgone conclusion the day Obama signed Stimulus I. Krugs, Roubs, et al were all calling for more. Now, obviously, getting a second stimulus would be much more difficult as the odds of siphoning off 3 more REPs in the Senate would be next to impossible. But, if they waited until Franken was seated they would only need two. Throw in a special Kennedy vote and they only need one. So, I suppose it would depend on the situation at the time its introduced.

It brings up an interesting dilemna for the White House though. Obama used a lot of well earned political capital getting Stimulus I implemented. We've seen him touting its supposed benefits at construction sites, at factories, and other various places. Friday he even attended the graduation of 25 new police officers who's jobs were saved because of the plan. He has promised it will create or save 3.5 million jobs...90% of which will be in the private sector (which makes his chest thumping at the police graduation all the more interesting - but that's a different argument).

So, what happens when the Democrats introduce Stimulus II? Doing so basically admits Stimulus I was not enough. That all the supposed benefits were trumped up. That it failed to do what we were all promised it would do. It would leave Obama in a very difficult place and significantly weaken his credibility.

[Mandark]

i don't think that detracts from what he's saying.  I know a few post-communist immigrants  and they're really anti-government intervention because of how the 20th century political process operated in those parts of the world.

oddly, i know a fair few who really despise capitalism on account of how badly they botched the transition in the post-gorbachev years. capitalism has NOT been kind to russia and its former affiliated states.

"Everything they taught us about socialism was a lie.  Everything they taught us about capitalism was true."

I get the sense that most Russians soured on IMF-style shock treatment capitalism (not that they're Marxists; they seem to dig national greatness authoritarianism), but a lot of older Iron Curtain emigrants love them some free market.  Ahnuld, for example.

I think it's cause American immigrants are a self-selected bunch.  Cuban Americans want to restore Batista-era property claims, Iranian Americans tend to be Christian and very anti-Ayatollah, etc.  I had poli sci professors who were Persian and Egyptian and both of them supported the war.

[siamesedreamer]

And another Obama pick bites the dust... 

[Human Snorenado]

And another Obama pick bites the dust... 

Yeah, that's because the only debate you're allowed to have on the Israel-Palestine boondoggle is if Israel is awesome or SO awesome, tho. 

[TVC15]

So, what happens when the Democrats introduce Stimulus II? Doing so basically admits Stimulus I was not enough. That all the supposed benefits were trumped up. That it failed to do what we were all promised it would do. It would leave Obama in a very difficult place and significantly weaken his credibility.

It was a foregone conclusion that there would be a further stimulus bill, even before the first one passed.  This is why I was bitching about the first stimulus bill being labeled THE stimulus bill.  Not being clear back then means their opponents will get to score some easy points on Team Obama.

[siamesedreamer]

At least he appears to have paid his taxes though. So, from that standpoint, the pick was an improvement.

[brawndolicious]

Iranian Americans tend to be Christian and very anti-Ayatollah, etc.  I had poli sci professors who were Persian and Egyptian and both of them supported the war.

Most muslims dislike the clergies power.  Any middle-easterner who supported the war in that political climate is most likely unbalanced though.

WRT capitalism, I think I read it was because of eastern Germans disgust with it that the socialist party gained so many supporters in Germany.

[Human Snorenado]

Two of my favorite things are colliding tonight:  2G2D and public tv!  SecTreas Timid Timmy Geithner will be on Charlie Rose.

[Boogie]

ah yes, the temporary Mafiacracy

russia's going to escape that any minute now

yeahhhh, I'm betting not....

[Van Cruncheon]

well, that's just the price they should pay for dabbling in socialism!

besides, you can't teach an old apparatchik new tricks, am i rite

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Didn't most of the former Eastern Bloc vote the communists back in 4-5 years after the curtain fell?

[recursivelyenumerable]

iirc they are mostly "former communists"

[brawndolicious]

yeah, they're the socialist parties right now I believe.

[Fragamemnon]

In Soviet Russia, state kills journalist!  No joke, we just do.

Russia did sort of kill it, though it took Tsar Putin I to do so.

[Fragamemnon]

I get the sense that most Russians soured on IMF-style shock treatment capitalism (not that they're Marxists; they seem to dig national greatness authoritarianism), but a lot of older Iron Curtain emigrants love them some free market.  Ahnuld, for example.

At least from where I saw it, one of the problems of the transition was that the whole thing was basically a large-scale neoliberal experiment where they took all of these great ideas that didn't even work that well in practice in long-time capitalist economies and shocked it into Russia's planned economy infrastructure. It was the free market fundie's first great experiment-the second later came with monumental fuckup that was Iraq's first year-and god it was a nightmare for the country, their GDP was like halved I think in the span of just a few years.

[ToxicAdam]

Just as the National Labor Relations Act, the 40 hour week and the minimum wage helped to pull us out of the Great Depression and into a period of unprecedented prosperity, so too will the Employee Free Choice Act help reinvigorate our economy," the senator said in a statement.

 

Talk about a stretch.



Check out this letter sent to the Mexican government from concerned Democrats in 2001.

We understand the secret ballot is allowed for, but not required by Mexican labor law. However, we feel that the secret ballot is absolutely necessary in order to ensure that workers are not intimidated into voting for a union they might not otherwise choose.

We respect Mexico as an important neighbor and a trading partner, and we feel that the increased use of the secret ballot in union recognition elections will help bring real democracy to the Mexican workplace.

The same people who signed this letter also co-sponsor the Employee Free Choice Act here in the US, better known as Card Check. Kevin Mooney exposes the hypocrisy for The Examiner:

Democrats leading the charge in 2009 for legislation that critics say will abolish secret ballots for employees voting in U.S. Workplace unionization contests signed a 2001 letter urging Mexican officials to protect their workers’ electoral privacy as a defense against union thugs. …

Rep. George Miller (D-Calif.), the main “card check bill” sponsor on the House side, and nine other Democratic co-sponsors,” all signed the letter to Mexico demanding that the secret ballot be maintained. Rep. Joe Baca (D-Calif.), Rep. Bob Filner (D-Calif.), Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-Ohio), Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.), Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Calif.), Rep. James McGovern (D-Mass.), Rep. Pete Stark (D-Calif.). All joined Miller in both co-sponsoring EFCA and signing the 2001 letter.

[Eric P]

Just as the National Labor Relations Act, the 40 hour week and the minimum wage helped to pull us out of the Great Depression and into a period of unprecedented prosperity, so too will the Employee Free Choice Act help reinvigorate our economy," the senator said in a statement.

 

Talk about a stretch.

as a dirty pro-labor guy myself, i view that as a bit of a stretch as well.