"A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics

[Phoenix Dark]

Also, conservative doesn't simply equal republican - especially with only a fifth of the country willing to identify themselves as republican. smh

edit: the hc poll merely shows that when people don't know what the plan is ("based on what you know lolol") they support it less. When the public option or the thing about pre-existing conditions are explained, support goes up

[Brehvolution]

Compared with last month, Americans have become more likely to say the costs their family pays for healthcare will get worse if a healthcare bill passes. Forty-nine percent of Americans say this, up from 42% in September. Meanwhile, the percentage who expect their costs to improve is unchanged.

Thanks largely to the huge amount of FUD dished out by the GOP media.

[The Fake Shemp]

When is a respectable outlet like MSNBC or CNN going to spring Shep Smith from Fox News?

[youtube=560,345]OGefbh2osMQ[/youtube]

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

He must be banging someone high up on the Fox News food chain to still keep his job.

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, I don't get it. I thought he was going to get axed after that whole affair when he was mocking Glenn Beck.

[Phoenix Dark]

I bet he's paid to seem fair. Didn't he drop the f bomb live...
[youtube=560,345]OjCzfGm0njM[/youtube]
...without getting suspended?

[Great Rumbler]

Shep needs to have his own news network with just him doing news and stuff all day.

[Robo]

Hopefully he steps it up soon and moves on to anchor the Naked News.

[TakingBackSunday]

I bet he's paid to seem fair. Didn't he drop the f bomb live...
[youtube=560,345]OjCzfGm0njM[/youtube]
...without getting suspended?

IIRC that wasn't on the channel and never was aired, it was for a radio show.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

"whoops"

[close]

[Mandark]

I wonder how the roughly 3/5 of America who want a public option across almost all of the reputable polls convince themselves that it's a conservative position, then.

The only 3/5ths FoC cares about is the one the Founding Fathers described in the Constitution!   

[Phoenix Dark]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=18246475&posted=1#post18246475

paging The EXP

[Robo]

I wonder how the roughly 3/5 of America who want a public option across almost all of the reputable polls convince themselves that it's a conservative position, then.

The only 3/5ths FoC cares about is the one the Founding Fathers described in the Constitution!   

 

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=18246475&posted=1#post18246475

paging The EXP

Got your PM.

That post was made because it turned out he was beholden to special interests just like the other senators.  Pulling the "New America" card is difficult when you're bought and paid for by the same groups that are paying the old guard as well.  The thing about the black President is that because of this new (well, new to me then) revelation, that I wasn't going to vote for a special interest purchased candidate.  I would have most likely voted for Ralph Nader at that time.  I still might have if Hillary got the nomination!  I didn't want to seem like a racist if I picked Nader over Obama (if I were to vote right then and there) hence the disclaimer.

It was during my idealistic phase of hoping for a clean senator and clean presidential run.  My views are different now because it is essentially impossible to be perfectly clean on Capitol Hill, most especially a Presidential campaign.  Shades of gray I guess.

[AdmiralViscen]

It's not that cut and dry.

oh I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about rates of "conservatism" vs rates of approval of the public option. Not rates of approval on the messy hodgepodge bill that's currently being proposed.

For all you know the bulk of the people disapproving of the current bill in your poll feel that way because the public option is too weak.


I like how when people call you an idiot for conflating 'being conservative' with 'voting republican in 2010 and 2012,' your first reaction is to conflate 'support for the current direction of health care reform' with 'support for the public option' with 'voting republican in 2010 and 2012.'

[Oblivion]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

"Hey, I got nothing against gay people, except the fact that they're all pedophiles."

[The Fake Shemp]

Joe the Plumber

[Bocsius]

Blue Cross/Blue Shield of NC raises premiums by 11%.
Blue Cross/Blue Shield of NC sends out fliers urging recipients to mail pre-printed, postage-paid notes to NC Senator to reject "unfair competition" from proposed government plan.

Backfire.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/10/28/article/insurer_says_timing_of_mailings_unfortunate

[FlameOfCallandor]

http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/28/autos/clunkers_analysis/index.htm


Clunkers: Taxpayers paid $24,000 per car

The average rebate was $4,000. But the overwhelming majority of sales would have taken place anyway at some time in the last half of 2009, according to Edmunds.com. That means the government ended up spending about $24,000 each for those 125,000 additional vehicle sales

Government planning

[AdmiralViscen]

If only 125,000 of the 690,000 clunkers sales were actually customers who wouldn't have bought a car this year anyway, then auto sales would have completely collapsed in September instead of being about the same as the pre-clunkers rate.

Of course, you can't read.

Still, auto sales contributed heavily to the economy's expansion in the third quarter, adding 1.7 percentage points to the nation's gross domestic product growth.

...

"The whole purpose of the program was to provide some kind of catalyst to kick-start the economy," he said, "and by all accounts the extra production that was added this year was a boost to the economy."

Manufacturers added shifts at factories(at no cost to the taxpayer), dealership owners added shifts for their salesmen (at no cost to the taxpayer), and hundreds of thousands of high-emissions , low-FE vehicles were taken off the roads.



Anyway, here is Edmunds' reasoning

In order to determine whether these sales would have happened anyway, Edmunds.com analysts looked at sales of luxury cars and other vehicles not included under the Clunkers program.

Using traditional relationships between sales volumes of those vehicles and the types of vehicles sold under Cash for Clunkers, Edmunds.com projected what sales would normally have been during the Cash for Clunkers period and in the weeks after.

So if you went to a dealership with a clunker trade in mind, and for any reason your car was not an eligible clunker, or you chose to buy a car that was not eligible under the program, then Edmunds says the program had no influence on you. In fact, it is a GOOD thing that this program increased traffic even among those not ultimately receiving the government handout. That's the taxpayer getting more than they paid for.

You can't use numbers likely to be inflated by an outside influence to determine what overall sales would be with that influence removed.

[Brehvolution]

2010 and 2012 are going to be such glorious year. Can't wait to taste your butt hurt tears.

Republican Party favorability

            Fav   Unfav

All         21    67
South     48    37
NE           6    87
Midwest  10    78
West      12    75

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Se...27_NBCPoll.pdf

You were saying?

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

.

FOC annihilated yet again

[FlameOfCallandor]

So basically taxpayers payed $24,000 per car to increase traffic and get a few extra shifts at the dealership.

At least it's not temporary... oh wait.

[TakingBackSunday]

wow, you really are a fucking nut

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

2010 and 2012 are going to be such glorious year. Can't wait to taste your butt hurt tears.

Republican Party favorability

            Fav   Unfav

All         21    67
South     48    37
NE           6    87
Midwest  10    78
West      12    75

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Se...27_NBCPoll.pdf

You were saying?

That is why I didn't get why some people were pissed that so many southern states wanted to secede again.  I think they should and see if they can take Utah with them.

Also, the GOP being completely toxic (except for the south but who gives a fuck about them) as a party is unsurprising.  There is no clear leadership whatsoever - it consists of roving bands of gangs committed to political guerrilla warfare, focused only on winning little battles here and there with absolutely no long term planning.  It might work for them in 2010 but it will get them killed in 2012.

[AdmiralViscen]

So basically taxpayers payed $24,000 per car to increase traffic and get a few extra shifts at the dealership.

At least it's not temporary... oh wait.

Did you or did you not look at where that $24,000 figure was derived? They got it by saying that 5/6ths of clunker purchases just don't count and then multiplying the clunker rebate by 6.

[brawndolicious]

Is it just me or did it seem like they hyped the environmental benefit of cash for clunkers more than the economic one?  I ask because it doesn't seem that there's any way for the CO2 created by manufacturing an entirely new car will be offset by saving a few mpg.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Not that anyone is surprised but the birther movement appears to be rapidly approaching it's deathbed.  Now O'Reilly is ridiculing the movement.

[Robo]

This is my favorite part:

On her Web site, Taitz wrote, "Keep in mind, what OReilly did, is more dangerous, more harmful then what some idiots like Rachel Maddow or Keith [Olbermann] did, since people believe O’Reilly to be fair and balanced."

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

I really wanna see O'Reilly's piece on this, little help?

[Dickie Dee]

I really wanna see O'Reilly's piece on this, little help?

Just follow the link, dude.

There's nothing surprising or novel here.  O'Reilly was shrugging this notion off nearly a year ago.  Even the much-maligned Beck looks at the birthers with distaste. 

"much-maligned" vs. "objectively fucking bonkers"

Just another little insight into JayDubya's mind as not really libertarian "strict originialist" above it all but just another conservo-cunt looking to justify his cuntitude.

[Dickie Dee]

You fuck your incestuous whore of a mother with that mouth

and hope I'll spawn twins so I can kill two fetuses with one coathanger!

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

You fuck your incestuous whore of a mother with that mouth?

Seriously, exercise your second amendment right to eat a pistol.

Could you stop losing your shit every time someone makes a follow up to one of your posts?  Even FOC takes it better than you and he gets annihilated every post he makes.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

You fuck your incestuous whore of a mother with that mouth?

Seriously, exercise your second amendment right to eat a pistol.

Could you stop losing your shit every time someone makes a follow up to one of your posts?  Even FOC takes it better than you and he gets annihilated every post he makes.

What follow-up?  Fucktard here couldn't make a point if his life depended on it.

You have the tendency to fly off the handle if someone doesn't agree with your viewpoints.  All that does is increase the amount of shit you catch.  Just saying.

[Dickie Dee]

You fuck your incestuous whore of a mother with that mouth?

Seriously, exercise your second amendment right to eat a pistol.

Could you stop losing your shit every time someone makes a follow up to one of your posts?  Even FOC takes it better than you and he gets annihilated every post he makes.

What follow-up?  Fucktard here couldn't make a point if his life depended on it.

Moral indignity is a lot more effective coming from people that aren't amoral.

[Dickie Dee]

You fuck your incestuous whore of a mother with that mouth?

Seriously, exercise your second amendment right to eat a pistol.

Could you stop losing your shit every time someone makes a follow up to one of your posts?  Even FOC takes it better than you and he gets annihilated every post he makes.

What follow-up?  Fucktard here couldn't make a point if his life depended on it.

Moral indignity is alot more effective coming from people that aren't amoral.

If that were true, you'd spare us all your bullshit.  Or maybe you just don't care about your efficacy.

Who is this "us" you speak of?

[Dickie Dee]

You fuck your incestuous whore of a mother with that mouth?

Seriously, exercise your second amendment right to eat a pistol.

Could you stop losing your shit every time someone makes a follow up to one of your posts?  Even FOC takes it better than you and he gets annihilated every post he makes.

What follow-up?  Fucktard here couldn't make a point if his life depended on it.

Moral indignity is alot more effective coming from people that aren't amoral.

If that were true, you'd spare us all your bullshit.  Or maybe you just don't care about your efficacy.

Who is this "us" you speak of?

Anyone caught in the radius of tragedy that you produce.

Well that's what your Uncle's badger said about your Aunt!

Wait, this isn't Monkey Island?

[Dickie Dee]

You fuck your incestuous whore of a mother with that mouth?

Seriously, exercise your second amendment right to eat a pistol.

Could you stop losing your shit every time someone makes a follow up to one of your posts?  Even FOC takes it better than you and he gets annihilated every post he makes.

What follow-up?  Fucktard here couldn't make a point if his life depended on it.

Moral indignity is alot more effective coming from people that aren't amoral.

If that were true, you'd spare us all your bullshit.  Or maybe you just don't care about your efficacy.

Who is this "us" you speak of?

Anyone caught in the radius of tragedy that you produce.

Well that's what you're Uncle's badger said about your Aunt!

Wait? This isn't Monkey Island?

"... that's what you are Uncle's badger said..."

Humor is a lot more effective coming from people that aren't dumbfucks.

lol, your worldview is hinging on a typo before I even read it back and modified it.

Your power bar is turning red.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

So, uh, how about that Obama?

[brawndolicious]

jaydubya, most people in that thread just wanted you to admit that you were wrong in saying that scalia was completely a strict originalist when interpreting the constitution, specifically wrt Heller V. DC.  I initially made it pretty clear that I thought that you and Scalia were capable of making lucid, well-thought out arguments supporting most all of your decisions/beliefs.  However, when we make simple, factual arguments showing how he can not have used the same legal philosophy on all of his decisions, you abandoned the thread.  It makes people lose faith in your reasoning abilities the next time you enter a political thread.

[The Fake Shemp]

Oh, JayDubya.

[Mandark]

PROTIP:  If someone applies their "philosophy" selectively, then it's called a "justification".

In 90-odd percent of the politically charged cases that come before him, Scalia reaches conclusions that gel with standard American conservatism.  If he can construct an originalist argument to get there he will.  If he can't, he'll get there anyway.

Sometimes, he just says outright moronic things which nobody can pretend are tied to some set of judicial principles.  Guy's a clown.

[Mandark]

Yeah yeah.  We already know which aspects of libertarianism are the important ones.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I remember some ruling Scalia made where he basically stated it was "beyond satire" (his words) that toxic chemicals can't be transmitted through the soil into groundwater.  Which is funny because I took an entire class on that.

The man has his lips wrapped around the collective corporate cock.

[brawndolicious]

The dude who cheerleads for the principle of textualism but imperfectly / inconsistently applies it is still better than the dude that has no principle.

"I mean, isn't it arguable that the best place for -- for really toxic stuff is at the bottom of a lake so long as it stays there . . ."

I don't think he really cares how he has to "justify" his decisions.  It seems that the originalist argument would support his views more often and that that is the only reason why he claims to support that principle of textualism and whatever.

[Mandark]

The dude who cheerleads for the principle of textualism but imperfectly / inconsistently applies it is still better than the dude that has no principle.

If he applies it inconsistently, then it's not a principle.  He does what he wants to based on his political biases and, when it's convenient for him, pays lip service to something you actually believe in.

Were I a libertarian, I'd be pretty damn livid about Republican hacks like Scalia who appropriate the language of my philosophy to further their own agendas.

Actual libertarians don't seem to have this problem, I think because 1) they're only really animated by the injustice of people getting social services, or 2) they'd rather not face up to their status as a fringe movement, and filing the Scalias of the world under "Flawed Allies" rather than "Sanctimonious Tories" makes them feel less alone.  It's understandable.

[AdmiralViscen]

I can't believe he codified that small town vs big city bullshit into a fucking Supreme Court opinion.

[Human Snorenado]

Shit just got real.(Mandark, this is a link.  Click it, you colorblind bastard.)

In a huge development in the NY-23 special election, Republican candidate Dede Scozzafava has announced that she is suspending her campaign, citing an inability to win in light of recent polls and a lack of money -- leaving this race as a vote between Democrat Bill Owens and Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman, and a strong message that the Republican Party can no longer nominate moderate candidates, or else face a right-wing revolt.

Scozzafava told the Watertown Daily Times that the new Siena poll, which said she was in third place, meant that she would be unable to catch up with Owens and Hoffman.

Hooray for purity purges!  No place for tolerating teh gheyz or abortion rights in today's GOP!  This needs to be broadcast far and wide, I think.

[Phoenix Dark]

Hoffman is probably going to win, which is a good thing imo. I'd love to see more hyper-conservative types come out the woodworks, splintering the GOP while scaring off moderates.

[Mandark]

JD, I don't know how I can explain this more simply.

Scalia does not share your philosophy.  Scalia does not have a philosophy, other than his conservative leanings.

If he only speaks the language of originalism when it gives him a favorable result, then he's not using it as a judicial philosophy, he's using it as a fig leaf.  It had nothing to do with his decision process, and everything to do with ex post facto justification.

Yeah, I know that he talks up originalism in his public speaking appearances.  Bush talked about a commitment to spreading democracy.  That doesn't mean that was his "real" philosophy, and that his policies towards all of our ME allies were exceptions.

It just meant that he, like Scalia, wanted people to see him as a man of principle rather than a grubby practitioner of realpolitik.  Don't be duped by it.



PS  "Oh yeah, well since the world is so binary, I bet you totally love this other guy, right?"  You bitch about me making you explain actual positions you took, then expect me to defend someone I've never said boo about?  Motes and beams, duder.

[Van Cruncheon]

man, how did i miss all this awesomeness

[Human Snorenado]

man, how did i miss all this awesomeness

i dunno, i guess i slept on the Scalia thread in question.

[brawndolicious]

So does HOW somebody defends a philosophy (that you may agree with) matter at all to you?  I mean if you're on the supreme court, your decision-making process kind of matters to most people because you are on the supreme fucking court.  You will influence how other people in the future interpret the law and constitution and perhaps even the environmental impact of toxic waste.  ya know?

Just I dunno, maybe these guys don't get hired to just vote on their gut.  The arguments that they throw around might matter a little.

[Van Cruncheon]

originalism and textualism frequently come into conflict, so i'm not sure why you're forward-slashing the two, unless you're trying to point out that scalia really is a self-contradicting toolbox and that it's okay.

(of course, i support neither textualism nor originalism, since they're wholly disingenuous and our best amendments came about by contradicting much of the original body of the constitution, both in text and in intent. still, arguing from the minds of the founding fathers, who we know less about with each passing day -- and better yet, trying to reconcile it with the English language of the period -- seems like hilarious dogmatic wanking. the difference between idiots like scalia and the folks advocating the kjv bible grows more and more confused every time the former opens his senile yap.)

all documents should evolve with their people. if that means everyone gets a free ride and queers hump your kids in schoolyards and fetuses are fired out of cannons at the special olympics, so be it!

[Human Snorenado]

The Constitution is awesome and infallible- it tells me that Pee Dee only counts for 3/5 of a real, white person.

[Phoenix Dark]

The Constitution is awesome and infallible- it tells me that Pee Dee only counts for 3/5 of a real, white person.

That's how god intended it to be 

[Human Snorenado]

The constitution would be cool if it were like, ice cream, or something useful.

Terlet paper, even.  Hell, Bush basically treated it as such for 8 years, and now you have people who still won't apologize for voting for him twice or admit he did anything wrong screeching about how their Constitutional right to live without a Black President is being violated, etc etc.

[Human Snorenado]

Overly moralistic teetotalers are progressive now!  Oh revisionist history, thou art DELICIOUS.

[Human Snorenado]

True or false: noted socialist, and probably worse President ever according to you FDR campaigned on repealing prohibition and Annheiser Busch's first shipment of beer post repeal went to him in the White House.

[Van Cruncheon]

Contracts don't just magically change terms because those beholden to the terms want them to.

WAT

given that we the people are both owners and deliverers of said contract, of course we can -- and are supposed to! -- renegotiate it. do i need to remind you what books to read again

or do the numinous spirits of the founding fathers own the contract

sometimes i really wonder if you aren't actually a religious man

[Phoenix Dark]

Point the first, why, yes, FDR was a vile piece of shit.

?