"A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics

[Human Snorenado]

He's like the only Democrat to ever figure out that Americans (not so) secretly like assholes.

[The Fake Shemp]

The right hates this guy.

[Brehvolution]

Because he tells it like it is.

[The Fake Shemp]

He tells it like it is... from a certain point of view. /Obi-Wan

Although humorous, I would appreciate a little bit of subtlety and tact from a politician. This guy might as well send a text alert to Rush Limbaugh when he gets on camera.

[Phoenix Dark]

He got pretty damn ridiculous after the initial media attention he received. I doubt telling Cheney to "stfu" is winning him many friends

[Brehvolution]

Why would he need republican friends?

[The Fake Shemp]

I don't think that appeals to moderates or independents either.

[Brehvolution]

I haven't seen him call any of them out though.

[Phoenix Dark]

He shoots his mouth off like a senator with nothing to fear. Dude is a congressman and up for re-election next year, and it's pretty obvious dems are going to either get shitcanned or take moderate losses.

Plus I don't like how Chris Matthews plays his enabler then acts shocked when he says something dumb

[Robo]

Unabashedly sticking it up Dick Cheney's ass is a fine way to win support from anyone who isn't a total fucktard.  I'd call that a good strategy if we weren't talking about Florida here.

[The Fake Shemp]

I'm not saying he's not within his rights to criticize Dick Cheney, but dragging crude Internet acronyms on-air is a pretty stupid way to do so. It comes off as immature to anyone that's not rank and file.

For instance - our President was always capable of slinging mud at his opponents' direction during his campaign without looking like an obnoxious tween.

[Phoenix Dark]

In short, me and Willco have changed targets from Franken to Grayson 

[The Fake Shemp]

Franken has been smart, and opted not to become a visible target in the Senate. I can't really hate on a Senator whose only real controversy is to support a bill that enhances a woman's legal rights after being gang raped by her employers.

[The Fake Shemp]

 

[Brehvolution]

To be fair, Willco, there is no PC way of telling someone to shut the fuck up.

[The Fake Shemp]

"I don't really think Cheney, considering his dubious track record as Vice President and unfavorability amongst moderate and liberal Americans, should really be speaking out against anybody - let alone the President."

There you go. I got the same point across, without sounding like a tween. Someone pay me an absurd amount per hour, and I'll type this stuff on the regular for Grayson.

[Brehvolution]

Yeah, but you can't be anymore concise than a good old fashioned stfu. 

[Human Snorenado]

I personally don't see the problem with it, but I would have taken a different route and said something like "Given how many times private citizen Cheney has been spectacularly wrong about national security matters I'm a little surprised that the press feels the need to enable him and give him an outlet for his dangerous views.  Do you guys also go to Bernie Madoff for his views on the economy?"  Of course then the press would beat each other bloodless to be the first to take down Grayson, cause you don't question the gatekeepers in the fourth estate, no sir!

[The Fake Shemp]

It's blunt to be sure, but politics is not a bar fight.

I have no idea whether or not his remarks have any bearing on his reelection, because I'm sure a Republican will have to pry his seat from his cold dead hands, but in terms of reception from the rest of the America - Internet acronyms do him no favors.

When other anchors on MSNBC are talking about his remarks, made on their own network, in a somewhat negative light... it's not a good light.

[Human Snorenado]

No one gives a shit about that, Federwang.  Don't catch Maurice disease here.

[The Fake Shemp]

I really didn't expect you to have a problem with someone telling Dick Cheny to shut the fuck up, Triumph.

[The Fake Shemp]

No one gives a shit about that, Federwang.  Don't catch Maurice disease here.

Want to bet? I'm sure there's going to be a dumb poll on his remarks sooner rather than later.

[Human Snorenado]

The media's obsession with Cheney just honestly baffles me.  Can anyone point to anything the fucker got right, EVER?  Then why the fuck to they keep going back to him... oh yeah, they have to be "objective" and represent "both sides of the issue" even if one side is actual reality and the other side is batshit insanity.

[Human Snorenado]

No one gives a shit about that, Federwang.  Don't catch Maurice disease here.

Want to bet? I'm sure there's going to be a dumb poll on his remarks sooner rather than later.

I'm saying, that's a dumb story that will move news cycles but have no repercussions.  If he loses his seat it won't be because he told Dick Cheney to stfu on MSNBC, which no Republicans watch anyway.  He'll lose because the economy is still in the shitter, no one can get a job and our President is trying to run the country like he ran the Harvard Law Review instead of growing some balls and telling stupid people to fuck off.

[The Fake Shemp]

I'm not talking about Cheney. I don't think anyone outside of the hard right actually cares about what he says. I think if left to his own devices, he would just be interpreted as a loud, obnoxious conservative tool.

Grayson, more or less, empowers him with stupid talk like this. Because I can tell you that regardless of their feelings on Dick Cheney, my folks will view any politicians that use crude Internet acronyms as pretty childish.

[Human Snorenado]

I'm not talking about Cheney. I don't think anyone outside of the hard right actually cares about what he says. I think if left to his own devices, he would just be interpreted as a loud, obnoxious conservative tool.

Grayson, more or less, empowers him with stupid talk like this. Because I can tell you that regardless of their feelings on Dick Cheney, my folks will view any politicians that use crude Internet acronyms as pretty childish.

Your mom isn't going to vote for a Democrat and would forgive a Republican because God, Jesus and the Bible.

[The Fake Shemp]

He'll lose because the economy is still in the shitter, no one can get a job and our President is trying to run the country like he ran the Harvard Law Review instead of growing some balls and telling stupid people to fuck off.

I already said I have no idea if it will have any bearing on his reelection, and that I doubt it will. I stated that it will likely hurt his national image, and by extension, slaps the Democrats with another liberal talking point for conservatives to drag out on air.

My mom did vote Democrat last election, despite her conservative values. And my father is borderline communist. He is a big Marxist.

[Human Snorenado]

Your mother voted for the schvartze?

[The Fake Shemp]

And I think you need to ask, "What did Grayson gain from this?"

Nothing.

That comment only appeals to a younger and/or liberal demographic that would find nothing short than allowing a few Gitmo detainees to fist Cheney live on national television as a satisfying punishment for enduring years of his tumultuous rule in the White House. In short, those folks have already decided that if Cheney was on fire, they would not piss on him to put him out.

It comes off as borderline inappropiate to everyone else, and offensive to the right. So instead of appropiately criticizing Cheney in a relatively civil manner, he decides to incite the right. Why? What benefit does this type of rhetoric have, other than making the country more divisive?

[Phoenix Dark]

The media's obsession with Cheney just honestly baffles me.  Can anyone point to anything the fucker got right, EVER?  Then why the fuck to they keep going back to him... oh yeah, they have to be "objective" and represent "both sides of the issue" even if one side is actual reality and the other side is batshit insanity.

Agreed. Same with McCain running around scaremongering about medicare while the media conveniently ignores the fact that he proposed much larger cuts. smh

To be fair though, maybe we shouldn't complain that Cheney and McCain are now the spokesman for the republican party

[Human Snorenado]

...because Dick Cheney needs to stfu?  DC is a town where everyone is concerned about propriety and no one cares about decency... it's what allowed those idiots to ruin everything for 8 years because if you tell the truth about them you must be a dirty fucking hippie and aren't a Very Serious Person.  Meanwhile, if your dad is an unjailed war criminal and your first name is Liz you get to go on Meet the Press to continue lying and undermining the country.  It's past time someone told these assholes to stfu.

[Phoenix Dark]

GOPers concerned about the growing Junpei menace

Standing in front of the Supreme Court this morning, a group of Republican lawmakers railed against the court system run out of the building behind them. A sign affixed to the plexiglas podium each spoke at in turn spelled out the reasons for their fears. "Protect our homeland," it read. "Keep terrorists out of America."

The justice system laid out in the Constitution, they said, is just too weak to protect American citizens from wiley terror suspects. From "activist judges" to courtroom sketch artists, the group reeled off a list of reasons the Obama administration decision to bring Guantanamo Bay detainees to the U.S. for trial could quite possibly end in, as Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ) suggested, a nuclear attack on the United States.

The group of conservative lawmakers have been arguing against bringing the Gitmo suspects to the U.S. ever since the decision was announced. They suggest, as do most Republicans and some Democrats, that the best way to try terror suspects is through military tribunals on the Guantanamo Bay base itself. Today, they repeated that argument. But they added new focus to their claim that the Constitution and bringing terrorists to justice can't mix.

Gitmo is "the best place to have [trials], it's the best place to house them. It's the safest place," Rep. Steve King (R-IA) told reporters. "More importantly, it's the place that keeps activist federal judges from making activist decisions that could end up turning [terror suspects] loose on the streets of America."

After the press conference, King elaborated on his worries about U.S. judges. "We wouldn't even be thinking about trying these detainees on U.S. soil if it hadn't been for activist judges who decided they were going to confer constitutional rights on people that have never seen the United States of America," he said, referring to the 2006 Hamdan v. Rumsfeld Supreme Court decision that said military commissions as set up by the Bush administration violated the Geneva conventions.

King suggested that "activist" judges could be inclined to release terror suspects over some liberal legal principle or another. "A judge can rationalize most anything," he said. "If you're a living, breathing -- how should I say it? -- 'evolving' constitutionalist than you can write anything you want to justify your own rationale."

Rep. Sue Myrick (R-NC) was troubled by what might happen when waterboarding and the American right to a fair trial met in a U.S. courtroom. She worried what might happen if terror suspects argued they'd been given "cruel and unusual" punishment at Gitmo.

"This is what scares me because they're in a U.S. court now and the rights are different," she said. "What will they say [about their detention] and what could happen and could they be out among the people again? It's very frightening."

How frightening? Mushroom cloud frightening, according to Franks. He said that a federal trial would give the suspects "a megaphone to speak to the planet," which he said "only hastens the danger" of, literally, a nuclear terrorist attack.

When a reporter pointed out that federal trials aren't televised, perhaps making the "megaphone" a little less likely, Republicans said there were other ways for terror suspects to peddle their propoganda from a U.S. courtroom -- for example, sketch artists.

"What we've seen happen is artists draw pictures and this will be written up and there will be defense attorneys taking the global stage," King said. "We are in an electronic era where they Internet and all these other media that we have will create a real time look at what's going on in New York."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/american-justice-system-too-weak-for-terrorists-gopers-say.php?ref=fpa

[The Fake Shemp]

I think you're mixing a lot of personal feelings into a statement I really don't understand, but I think you're trying to make the political version of, "What goes around comes around!" ... no?

Again, I would point to the fact that nobody really cares what Cheney says. Middle America is not rallying behind his remarks, or anyone really. Outside of Fox News' core viewership, he is more or less seen as the captain of the ship that ran the country into the ground.

To think that the majority of Americans take his remarks seriously, after leaving this country in shambles, is kind of a left wing conspiracy theory. Media coverage does not necessarily translate into support.

Instead of being viewed as that old guy blubbering about nonsense every other day, Grayson propels Cheney's words front and center by inciting the right. It's stupid.

He gains nothing. The left feel the same way about him, the right feel the same way about and folks that didn't know him (moderates and independents) will now know him as "that guy that talks like my teenage daughter".

[The Fake Shemp]

According to a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey released Thursday, 40 percent of people questioned say the U.S. would be better off if Democrats ran Congress while 39 percent feel things would be better if Republicans took charge on Capitol Hill. The 1-point margin is a statistical tie.

Support for Democrats is down from a 10-point advantage in August and a 25-point margin in January.

... Maybe someone at the DNC needs to tell Grayson to STFU.

[The Fake Shemp]

And one more point, I always felt the media coverage of Cheney's continual criticism to be more or less the mainstream's way of saying, "... can you believe this fucking guy?"

I think the fascination has less to do with approval and more to do with the audacity of it.

[Human Snorenado]

According to a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey released Thursday, 40 percent of people questioned say the U.S. would be better off if Democrats ran Congress while 39 percent feel things would be better if Republicans took charge on Capitol Hill. The 1-point margin is a statistical tie.

Support for Democrats is down from a 10-point advantage in August and a 25-point margin in January.

... Maybe someone at the DNC needs to tell Grayson to STFU.

Again, I think you're completely off base here.  If the media wasn't busy slurping tea partiers dicks and showing people freaking out on the tv all the time, and if the democrats weren't pussies those numbers would be better.

[The Fake Shemp]

I don't think this has anything to do with media coverage of the Tea Party movement (or Cheney for that matter), but do I agree with your assessment that the Democrats' lack of political backbone is a huge contributor.

But let's not confuse political backbone with crude remarks, or to be more concise, language most of us use as a joke on this very forum.

And if evilbore is to be the political thesaurus for the Democrats, then yeah, they're in trouble.

[Phoenix Dark]

Democrats control government at a time of high unenployment and worrying economic news. They're on the front lines so of course they take the hit; the Other Guy always sounds appealing when times are bad.

The economy is improving but regular people don't feel it. Right now businesses aren't hiring, but they're laying off less people as compared to just last month. Once people feel it, they'll chill out. And once people feel the health care bill (lower prescription pill costs, medicare at 55) they'll chill out even more. The question is when will people feel the economy is getting better.

Grayson's antics don't help, and I doubt they help him in his district. He'll get tons of money to campaign but that's it

[Human Snorenado]

I don't think this has anything to do with media coverage of the Tea Party movement (or Cheney for that matter), but do I agree with your assessment that the Democrats' lack of political backbone is a huge contributor.

But let's not confuse political backbone with crude remarks, or to be more concise, language most of us use as a joke on this very forum.

And if evilbore is to be the political thesaurus for the Democrats, then yeah, they're in trouble.

Dude, whatever.  Americans like assholes, end of story.

[Van Cruncheon]

wtf, federman? i want to see MORE trash talking by the left, not less. fucking effete "moderates". more taibbi, more grayson, more franken: i want Republicans HUMILIATED to the point that "conservative" becomes a bad word. it worked for the right and "liberals" -- now let's show them how the REAL assholes take down the opposition. i want to hear more butthurt teabagger squeals, not less!



eh eh eh eh bu bu bu bu bu we need to act better than that *wrists flapping, mincing*

[Van Cruncheon]

also alan grayson is my fuckin hero, and i wish he'd get even meaner and harsher

politics is not a civilized business, figgurts.

[Van Cruncheon]

still doesn't diminish my approval for his choice of words, although i wish he was even crueler in his assessment

common sense is now an elitist value!

[The Fake Shemp]

What's this? Liberals craving schadenfreude?

Call me when that helps your caucus.

Reality time, friends - while Grayson running around the Hill talking like a wrestler on WWE Smackdown might tickle your political fancy after eight years under the oppressive Bush regime, it does little to appeal to moderates (i.e. me).

Again, do not confuse political backbone with potty talk; liberals did the word "liberal" a disservice, not the right. Republicans just made them out to be the push overs they actually are. Americans are unhappy with Democrats because they voted the party into power to change policy, and all they've done is compromise and beat around the bush (oh the possibilities of that pun). Not because Republicans have turned the word "liberal" into a dirty word.

But - hey - if your party is about to get a swift kick in the pants next election, and has failed to do anything of significance since attaining majority control of Congress, I guess all you have to look forward to is political trash talking.

p.s. Prole, I don't think anyone cares about what color commentators say, but elected officials are expected to display some degree of political decorum. Even Franken had the brains to realize this when he took office.

[Van Cruncheon]

we don't want to appeal to moderates if moderates are fuckin' pussies!

and no, officials are NOT expected to display decorum. otherwise, explain sarah palin, or really, ANY recent right-wing political phenomenon! only swishy libtards and little girl moderates expect civilized discourse, even though this country has NEVER EVER had a history of civilized political discourse!

shame needs to be applied to america, and liberally. bring on the elitists!

[The Fake Shemp]

Sarah Palin, who is no longer an elected official and is pretty much a punch line in political circles? Has there been any crazed, wide-mouthed conservative official that has been able to do anything but appeal to only his or her own base?

It's not like as if the Bachmann's and Palin's of the world are taking America by storm.

EDIT: I do not expect all political discourse to be civil, which is why I stress "some degree" and not "complete and total".

[The Fake Shemp]

And one more note, moderates don't want to align with liberals if they are pussies. The way to demonstrate you can get things done is to get things done, not go on Hardball and spout Internet acronyms.

[Van Cruncheon]

so, they should pander to arch, effete moderates like they are doing, who continue to apparently elect the current spineless, useless set of political toolboxes? which way do you want it?

you don't think palin would get re-elected as senator or governor of alaska? i bet she'd take it inna landslide.

[The Fake Shemp]

I doubt it. She was pretty unpopular on her way out; her approval ratings tanked. And with all her incompetency catching up with her, it was only a matter of time until a legitimate scandal broke.

... I expect liberals to do what they were voted into office to do, Prole. America voted behind a platform of change, and Obama and the Democrats have delivered, uh, a Nobel prize?

We're now further entrenched in Afghanistan, the economy is still in the dumps, the banks robbed us blind (and Obama and the Democrats are more than happy to let them do so), nobody has any health care, etc.

The biggest travesty is the complete lack of regulation of the markets, and the fact that there still really is none! Where's the accountability for TARP funds? Why has nobody explained why we let the banks rob us blind? Etc.

Americans, by and large, like firm leadership - even when they don't necessarily agree with it. This short-lived Democratic era can only be defined by futility and compromise.

[Van Cruncheon]

you're the one acting all affronted by grayson's behavior, not me! fuck, i'm only sad that this is merely an irregular occurrence, and not a way of life for him. "oh oh oh oh oh" gasps the college intellectual in a grand mal of faux-pragmatism "doesn't he know that he is HURTING HIS CHANCES when he speaks something resembling the truth? i don't care about the message, i caaaaare about his electability! oh oh oh how considerate and realistic am i? ah ah ah ah i am menstruating, and right when i seem to have a case of the vapours!"

[Van Cruncheon]

I doubt it. She was pretty unpopular on her way out; her approval ratings tanked. And with all her incompetency catching up with her, it was only a matter of time until a legitimate scandal broke.

... I expect liberals to do what they were voted into office to do, Prole. America voted behind a platform of change, and Obama and the Democrats have delivered, uh, a Nobel prize?

We're now further entrenched in Afghanistan, the economy is still in the dumps, the banks robbed us blind (and Obama and the Democrats are more than happy to let them do so), nobody has any health care, etc.

The biggest travesty is the complete lack of regulation of the markets, and the fact that there still really is none! Where's the accountability for TARP funds? Why has nobody explained why we let the banks rob us blind? Etc.

Americans, by and large, like firm leadership - even when they don't necessarily agree with it. This short-lived Democratic era can only be defined by futility and compromise.

you'd hafta vote actual liberals into office for that to happen! instead, you elected moderates, moderate, and that's because you let conservatives control the dialogue! HEAVEN FORFEND CONSERVATIVES CONSIDER ME A LIBERAL BY THEIR EXTREME DEFINITION, I MUST SPEAK IN A CONCILIATORY QUASI-CIVILIZED MANNER LEST THEY CALL ME A LIBFAG AND THREATEN TO KILL ME, OH NO.

[The Fake Shemp]

 

Here's where this whole, "I think he should do it more!" argument falls apart: what did he gain from doing that, Prole? Your respect? Were you going to vote for Cheney next election anyway? No? Then...

[The Fake Shemp]

you'd hafta vote actual liberals into office for that to happen! instead, you elected moderates, moderate!

Fair point.

[Human Snorenado]

Yet the alternative to the milquetoast democrats are the insane republicans.  If what you're saying is true (America is frustrated with the democrats for... not governing to the LEFT enough) then you'd be seeing a splinter group on the left showing promise and moderates in the democratic party getting driven out.  Which is totally not the case- the country has had a hissy fit because OMG SPENDING AND BLACK PRESIDENT AND GLENN BECK TOLD ME THAT THERE ARE FEMA CONCENTRATION CAMPS.

[The Fake Shemp]

The country is upset because it's poor and they see a government that has done nothing but spend money. And no tangible results. The argument that Americans are upset because Obama is a secret Muslim Kenyan is the Glenn Beck contingent and they represent a vocal minority. That is not why Democrats are polling down.

If health care was done and people had jobs and the government held Wall Street accountable, all things the Democrats could have done by now, they'd be the most popular party since Mario Party (because a Mario Party don't stop).

[Van Cruncheon]

Here's where this whole, "I think he should do it more!" argument falls apart: what did he gain from doing that, Prole? Your respect? Were you going to vote for Cheney next election anyway? No? Then...

he needs to do it MORE and so do other folks of a liberal persusion until folks think twice about spewing conservative stupidity into public discourse.

[The Fake Shemp]

You act as if that kind of discourse will humiliate them outside of the liberal contingent. Conservatives sullied liberals not with Internet acronyms or potty talk, but just outright lies and deflection. Which is a lot more acceptable to uninformed Americana than "stfu dick cheney".

Tell me a civil lie, and I likely will believe it a lot more than theatrics from a fringe contingent (Tea Party included).

[The Fake Shemp]

And I would stress neither lies and deflection or political trash talk is necessary if Democrats could just find a spine and get things done. Actions speak louder than words, especially in this country. The problem is that it seems like all politicians have are words nowadays.

So yes, if your goal is four more years of Democratic futility, then perhaps the party should gravitate towards political grand standing and potty talk. That way they can continue to do nothing, which is totally pointless, but is perhaps better than tearing down the country altogether.

[Oblivion]

we don't want to appeal to moderates if moderates are fuckin' pussies!

Eh...in all honesty this sorta sounds like teabagger talk, but from the other side.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

and not in the good way 

[close]

[Barry Egan]

I know you didn't address this towards me but whatevs:

The question isn't whether or not its depressing but whether or not it's true.

 

Society makes the rules.  Placing our heads in the sand about that fact only allows the bad guys to use it to their advantage.  

[Van Cruncheon]

Prole and Mandark, as much as you may disagree with Objectivism, do you really want to make the assertion that people should have no rights except what society chooses to give them (and that these rights can be taken away at any time)? It seems to me that following this logic, one could say that the Holocaust was justified by the anti-Semitic nature of German society at the time. After all, who is to say that a minority group has the inalienable right to live? Even if we back away from such an extreme, one could certainly justify all sorts of discrimination or even wholesale apartheid if we take the position that humans have no rights except what society decides.

it wasn't merely justified by the society at the time, they actually went ahead with it! i shan't justify it, but i am also not living in weimar germany. neither am i going going to pretend i'm an island and free from the norms and modes of the culture and society i participate in, even now.