star trek

[Himu]

I'm all for it. I can finally see Quentin do sci fi.

Also, I'm having discovery withdrawal.

[FatRiker]

I'm curious if it's going to be this idea. I'd be okay if the Kelvin timeline jumped to their version of TNG.

[toku]

so any guesses to what charlie brooker and co. are gonna try to say with this one?

[Joe Molotov]

so any guesses to what charlie brooker and co. are gonna try to say with this one?

Is this the dark, R-rated Galaxy Quest we were denied?

[Tasty]

Meth Damon tho

[FatRiker]

so any guesses to what charlie brooker and co. are gonna try to say with this one?

It'll be a holodeck episode.

[Stoney Mason]

It's hard to imagine a Tarantino style approach in a Trek film (not a knock. I adore the man). But ANYTHING is better than what those last three films were going for.

[chronovore]

Just finished "Yesterday's Enterprise" and I loved it. Might be my favorite episode so far.

That is one of my all-time favorite episodes, too! Jesus, what a fantastic story, and they don't even renege on the ending. There are a few more upcoming references to its repercussions in TNG, so look forward to those.

I want a model of the NCC1701C more than any other Enterprise.

Look forward to my other favorite one-off, "Lower Decks." 

[chronovore]

so any guesses to what charlie brooker and co. are gonna try to say with this one?

I don't think I'm ready for that. It looks like Galaxy Quest fucked the Orville, but it's Black Mirror so the baby's going to be a horror film.

[chronovore]

It's hard to imagine a Tarantino style approach in a Trek film (not a knock. I adore the man). But ANYTHING is better than what those last three films were going for.

Those were serviceable SF action films.

They just weren't particularly Star Trek, despite two actors doing fabulous imitations of McCoy and Spock.

[Himu]

Just finished "Yesterday's Enterprise" and I loved it. Might be my favorite episode so far.

Glad you enjoyed it.

[Himu]

I think Tarantino can definitely make a great Trek film. I imagine it'd be a spy type fun Trek film with adventure maybe. I haven't known him to fuck with science themes or philosophy except for maybe kill bill vol 2 and Pulp Fiction I guess. He's my favorite director but I have no idea what route he would take. He could take the Breathless route that is more expository dialogue and make it a more character based approach ala Deathproof, or maybe a more fun spy/infiltrator/thief type story like Jackie Brown or Reservoir Dogs. But I think that he has the potential for a mind fuck Trek as well (ala Pulp Fiction). Too many good options. And that's just limiting him to types of films he's done already. Maybe he'll surprise us.

[Stoney Mason]

It's hard to imagine a Tarantino style approach in a Trek film (not a knock. I adore the man). But ANYTHING is better than what those last three films were going for.

Those were serviceable SF action films.

They just weren't particularly Star Trek, despite two actors doing fabulous imitations of McCoy and Spock.

They are fine/standard action movies. Honestly, I would have less of a problem with them if they weren't Trek movies but some other franchise of space action movies. I just don't think they capture what is good about TOS outside of surface stuff.

I'll probably have more to say about them when I rewatch them as I continue through all the movies.

[Himu]

I liked the first one. Say what you want but it's what made me plunker down and watch Star Trek tv after not liking Trek most of my life. You guys may not like the new movies, and I think they're flawed too. But they (re)introduced a new generation to Star Trek. Before that movie I kind thought Trek was stupid and boring. I went to see Generations, Nemesis, and other Trek films in the theater with my dad (a Trekkie) as a kid. I watched TNG's final episode the night it aired. I watched Voyager almost every week with my dad and the show went in one ear and out the other. I never really had a relationship with Trek. The first movie was a nice re-introduction and I was now old enough to appreciate and even fall in love with Trek.

This speaks nothing of the films' quality (although I still like it after becoming a seasoned Trek vet) but in these discussions about how oh so bad the new movies are, that element is never mentioned much less respected. So there's that.

[Stoney Mason]

I fully acknowledge I may be overly harsh on those new movies. Probably in a way that I'm generally not when it comes to fandom. Star Trek TOS is one of the few things I tend to be overly nerdy about in a purist kind of manner. Purist in tone I mean, not in lore canon and stuff like that.

I think those movies are fine for people new to the franchise or casual fans, (or if you just like them). The first one I went to see with my brother and my nephew and they fall into that casual/new group and they enjoyed it. So I understand they have appeal to people and those movies aren't just made for nerd purists like me.

My issue which is only reinforced after having re-watched the first 6 movies is that they don't reflect the things I value in TOS specifically and Trek in general. Oh, the names are there. The people acting like the characters are there. It's like watching an alien facsimile. It's certainly an approximation of TOS but it never feels like the spirit is there. The plots are complete throwaway. They are less diverse than the show or the old movies in tone. The relationships don't grip in the same way. They are decent/good modern circa 2010 action movies but poor trek movies to me. They are neither different enough to really seem fresh nor consistent enough where it feels like something actually like the tos show or movies were. They aren't bold movies that risk much even when they try to ala Vulcan genocide.   

There are reboots that are new but capture the essence of what the old thing was or improve it. The new MST3k reboot for example. BSG re-imagining. I think Discovery is a better reboot of trek than those movies. It takes more chances.

The best thing I can say about Taratino coming in if he does, is however it turns out, is that I know whatever he does will have a vision. It will have a unique take on the world and not just feel like a cobbled together thing to try to please everybody.
 

[Himu]

I don't usually care about that, though. The new movies absolutely made Star Trek more popular, and somewhat more acceptable fandom wise. Being the butt of the lol geeks joke for so long repelled people from ever wanting to touch the series, myself included. Trekkies themselves didn't help. I don't really care for the whole introducing a new generation angle anywhere mostly because when it comes to anything that has already been popular or somewhat popular for decades that's not all on whatever new installment reaped the benefits.

That's why reboots, soft reboots, etc. are an easy sell and are further relied upon by corporations. When something has gone on long enough it'll inevitably reach a point where less people are inclined to start because of the time sink. Why start Star Trek when there's 5 shows, a cartoon and ten movies to catch up on? A reboot with all the recognizable characters everybody has seen referenced and/or parodied everywhere without the decades long continuity but with high production values isn't the hardest sell.

Feels like it has less to do with the movie itself and falls more along the lines of praising the producers for knowing how well to sell a product.

I just don't think the first JJ film is that terrible and the third one is enjoyable fun.

[Himu]

I fully acknowledge I may be overly harsh on those new movies. Probably in a way that I'm generally not when it comes to fandom. Star Trek TOS is one of the few things I tend to be overly nerdy about in a purist kind of manner. Purist in tone I mean, not in lore canon and stuff like that.

I think those movies are fine for people new to the franchise or casual fans, (or if you just like them). The first one I went to see with my brother and my nephew and they fall into that casual/new group and they enjoyed it. So I understand they have appeal to people and those movies aren't just made for nerd purists like me.

My issue which is only reinforced after having re-watched the first 6 movies is that they don't reflect the things I value in TOS specifically and Trek in general. Oh, the names are there. The people acting like the characters are there. It's like watching an alien facsimile. It's certainly an approximation of TOS but it never feels like the spirit is there. The plots are complete throwaway. They are less diverse than the show or the old movies in tone. The relationships don't grip in the same way. They are decent/good modern circa 2010 action movies but poor trek movies to me. They are neither different enough to really seem fresh nor consistent enough where it feels like something actually like the tos show or movies were. They aren't bold movies that risk much even when they try to ala Vulcan genocide.   

There are reboots that are new but capture the essence of what the old thing was or improve it. The new MST3k reboot for example. BSG re-imagining. I think Discovery is a better reboot of trek than those movies. It takes more chances.

The best thing I can say about Taratino coming in if he does, is however it turns out, is that I know whatever he does will have a vision. It will have a unique take on the world and not just feel like a cobbled together thing to try to please everybody.

I completely agree Discovery is a better reboot. I'm still grateful for the first reboot film though.

[benjipwns]

Trek 09 does literally everything wrong, has a horrible nonsense plot full of dumb spectacles and undermines any good parts by slamming its head into the wall every ten minutes.

Into Darkness is really an amazing example of how to shoot a film off a one page outline of scene descriptions. (Somebody told me that FILM HULK dude wrote like a 30 page essay on this flaw in films with ID as the main example, so I'll just assume he said anything I could from now on.) Although I rarely see people point out my favorite part...when he's in the brig and goes "My. Name. IS KHAN." like anyone should know what that means. Even better it's not even fucking relevant to the plot that he be KHAN. (Runner up is when Spock calls up Old Spock to ask "who's Khan?" and Old Spock just says "he's very dangerous one of the most I've ever met" or something which is like total great help there, we all already knew that.*)

Beyond is great, Idris is quite wasted, the whole "debate" he's supposed to offer Kirk is kinda lost on THIS version of the franchise and stuck onto the end unnecessarily, as is all the stuff about the planet changing them and whatever. But THE ENSEMBLE, everyone is part of this movie. And they're split up, so we get pairs time that works well to finally give us stuff outside of Spock and Kirk, and then as they come back together, and it doesn't even degrade at that point, the Ensemble keeps on chugging with everyone seemingly part of it until Kirk runs off to get his shirt torn. Really the twist with Idris' character and plotline undermines what would have been a stronger point they could have fleshed out with him just being an alien who distrusts the claims of the Federation, especially the Abramsverse version, and has a desire to call attention to it, make his people a victim of Khan's weapons or something. It's not until the very end of the film that he even gets to articulate his dispute, and it's not even justified, it's selfish and his plan is petty revenge. (The ending is almost too TREKIAN with Kirk trying to appeal to his better nature, and argue in favor of the Federation/Humanity (odd conflation but shhhhh) and its goals rather than Kirk simply pointing out that he doesn't even believe his own bullshit and then building some kind of rudimentary lathe to mangle his body horribly in ways that shouldn't be allowed to be shown on screen.)

*I just realized they could have tossed in another but real sly Wrath of Khan call back there, Old Spock could have offered the tip that "his pattern indicated two dimensional thinking" and Spock could have raised his eyebrow like he just thought of something which is the plan he pulls off later which is the only decent part of the film. But that would have been a smart call back rather than slapping Trek names on a half 9/11 truther story.

[benjipwns]

I don't usually care about that, though. The new movies absolutely made Star Trek more popular, and somewhat more acceptable fandom wise. Being the butt of the lol geeks joke for so long repelled people from ever wanting to touch the series, myself included. Trekkies themselves didn't help. I don't really care for the whole introducing a new generation angle anywhere mostly because when it comes to anything that has already been popular or somewhat popular for decades that's not all on whatever new installment reaped the benefits.

That's why reboots, soft reboots, etc. are an easy sell and are further relied upon by corporations. When something has gone on long enough it'll inevitably reach a point where less people are inclined to start because of the time sink. Why start Star Trek when there's 5 shows, a cartoon and ten movies to catch up on? A reboot with all the recognizable characters everybody has seen referenced and/or parodied everywhere without the decades long continuity but with high production values isn't the hardest sell.

Feels like it has less to do with the movie itself and falls more along the lines of praising the producers for knowing how well to sell a product.

I mean, yeah, there's a reason they did Kirk/Spock/Scotty and all. Though I think TNG has almost reached a point now where you could do it.

I think though that Trek can be sold as a concept like Star Wars is being, the jedi, the force, etc. sell it, not dependent on Luke or even really Vader anymore. They seem to have introduced a new set of characters for a new generation just fine.

I also think there's a value in "my crew" as for most of us it was truly TNG with the films of the TOS more than the TOS episodes probably. Some poor souls probably "came in" with Voyager as "their crew" they first watched. Now people are getting Discovery...maybe.

So I'm not sure that the Star Trek films necessarily need Kirk/Spock or even a rebooted Picard/Data/Worf. The new films actually haven't been blockbusters compared to the movie industry itself. They've outperformed the TNG films easily, but the TOS films did comparatively as well as these are doing. Toss out V ($101 million), and the old five TOS films made $132-271 million in adjusted dollars in NA. The new three have done $158-288 million. Both ID and Beyond did better elsewhere than in NA which is something to consider.

So I'm not sure you can't, in some way, create a new film only crew that's unique and for a new generation who have these adventures... just not at a $200 million budget which the next one won't be getting anyway unless Tarantino somehow can just demand it, and not pull in $300+ million at the box office that these are doing worldwide because that's just what the name does I guess.

[benjipwns]

As a side note, I guess Quentin probably has the clout to throw out the already planned film with Kirk's dad Thor coming back.

He's right in that video about how the obvious thing is remaking the TOS episodes which were held back by the format and budget and tech, which they had done a bit of in the reboot set comics. I think the second pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before" is an obvious place to start.

[Himu]

Didn't say it's laudibke because of that. Just that that aspect is never given merit is all.

[benjipwns]

Seems kinda not really measurable and certainly something I wouldn't argue for why I like/dislike them. So it's tough to give it a prominent place of merit.

Have the films (especially after the first one) really spawned a bonanza of new film themed merchandise like toys and stuff? (I really have no clue.) Other than the video game which hurt Into Darkness at the box office by being at least three times as enjoyable. (Source: J.J. Abrams. And myself.)

[benjipwns]

speaking of which, totally nailed that first season lineup of action figures for TNG:

[benjipwns]

They were making these before the show premiered and during its first season, so they didn't know what characters would be popular, they wound up producing so many Riker's that they were giving them away in all sorts of stuff. The "bearded" version was literally just drawn on with a marker as a way to sell excess inventory during the second season lol:


I wish they had drawn on the picture too.

[benjipwns]

NOPE

RAPE GANGS

THE RAPE GANGS

[benjipwns]

she also jumps into the frame and waves at the end of the episode before the one where she dies because it was filmed after, which is fun

[Yeti]

Tasha Yar was a much better security officer than Worf.

[Himu]

worf is a better character tho

[Joe Molotov]

Worf never even fucked a robot, the coward.

[TVC15]

http://deadline.com/2017/12/quentin-tarantino-star-trek-r-rating-mark-l-smith-the-revenant-drew-pearce-lindsay-beer-jj-abrams-1202222161/

R-rated and Tarantino hopes to direct. I still think the latter might just be something he's teasing so he could have more control over negotiations on the project. If he was really interested in directing, I think he'd want to write it himself. Then again, maybe him not writing this will be his excuse on how this doesn't count towards his 10 movies.

I want a Shatner cameo, bad. I want Shatner and Sam Jackson to interact.

[chronovore]

I'm LOVING the fourth season of Enterprise! Two consecutive three-part episodes?

It's so neat, they kind of gave them the heroes' welcome that almost could have been the end of the show. Then they get into the xenophobic backlash against all brown people aliens due to a terrorist act, even after we've emerged successful. Hell, Starfleet doesn't even try to permanently occupy The Expanse, so they've got wiser heads than our own in charge.

4, 5, 6 are all Dr. Noonian Soong focused, with hints of Khan (including specific camera shots!), 7, 8, 9 are internal turmoil on Vulcan, with nice analogs between Israel and Palestine. And I love the background Vulcan stuff. I remember T'Pau is referred to as a great spiritual leader of the Vulcans that saved them from some heavy stuff. All the interaction between Vulcans and Andorians is so good. Cmdr. Shran is a great character, and I'm sad that I won't see him again when this show ends.

I'm going to be so bummed when this is over.  :'(

[benjipwns]

Then there's even more good news! Pretty much the entire season is two or three part episodes. Maybe a few single episodes in the mix, including the Finale.

It's actually an interesting format for a show. Can't really think of another show off the top of my head that's done that continuously.

[Stoney Mason]

Re-watched First Contact and Insurrection.

First Contact is a good movie. It has the Borg which Next Gen always excelled with. It's has that star trekian plot of lets do Time Travel (and ignore all the contamination issues this would cause)

It's generally a solid, entertaining movie and probably the best film of this era of Trek. The idea of Picard being haunted by his time as a Borg is a good idea even if I think the writing of it isn't handled in the best manner. Like randomly calling Worf a Coward. And the whole Picard as Ahab thing maybe needing a lighter touch since he behaves very different than he ever did on the show. It's still mostly an exciting movie with good action. And its a major step-up coming after generations if you can ignore that stuff.

I also actually like Insurrection. It would have been a nice 2 parter episode which also of course serves as a valid complaint tossed at the movie. It feels more like television in scope and scale than a movie. That doesn't bother me but I understand the complaint that perhaps a movie should be something grander in vision than an extended episode.

The most common complaint of course is why Picard's sudden change of stance from Journey's End to this episode. Whether a person agrees with Picard and what he did during this conflict or not, it is a jarring change since the episode philosophically is essentially the same. The fact that Picard doesn't even mention this is disappointing writing. It could have served to head off this valid complaint. He should have made a speech commenting on his regret at doing what he did in the past. Maybe showing the consequences. Instead the writers give him a generic speech about sins people have committed in the past. It's like the writers were either afraid to make Picard less heroic or were too embarrassed to admit they were recycling an episode plot for a movie. Unfortunate.

Outside of that, I kinda like the movie though. But like I said, I'm judging relative to a tv episode versus a movie. How you view that divide probably effects how you feel about the movie.

[Stoney Mason]

And I finished up the original run of movies by watching Nemesis.

So of course Nemesis is not a good movie but for me its not the whole trainwreck that Generations is. Generations is unsalvageable imo. There is almost nothing good in it. Nemesis has a few moments for me that work (the ending with data which I kind of liked and a few other moments)

The movie falls apart the moment Shinzon is introduced. He's an awful villain with the most ridiculous convoluted backstory ever. The idea that he has been treated like shit by the Romulans but still willing to do their bidding is odd. His mind rape fascination with Troi is completely unmotivated and embarrassing. The remans are an unnecessary plot point just to create some monster of the week villains.

Just watching the movie from moment to moment is a decent enough experience in a way. It's just once your brain actively engages you immediately realize how dumb the plot is. They try to create a decent moment when Picard tries to tell Shinzon he can still change. This is what should have been far more the focus with the Shinzon character. A battle between loyalty and what a true person's inner nature is. Instead they have poisoned the well too much by having him commit mind rape and and work underneath the romulans who have treated him like shit.

There is kernel of an idea there in what makes the man. Nature versus Nurture. But they blow it all in their need to create another big bad guy just to knock down by the end of the movie. And this is one of signs of what is the true issue of these later Trek movies for me. All of these movies are now about punching the psychotic bad guy or women at the end of the movie and killing them. There is no more possibility to do stuff like in Voyage home or the Motion Picture or even final frontier. The diversity of plot is gone. They are now all setups to beat a generic villain. Now that is a Star Trek plot. But its not the only Star Trek plot when you look at the old movies and tv shows. But for modern movies they started to feel like that was the only way to do it. From my mind's eye, that philosophy continues over to the recent movies also. But we'll see. I'll watch those final three next.

[benjipwns]

Nemesis had like 45 minutes cut out of it that spent more time on all the characters, it's where Wesley appeared, Shinzon's whole deal is explained more including the Troi stuff. They had to cut it to keep all the action like the JEEP and then the escape from inside Shinzon's ship and the stupid fist fight with Riker. Which was the studio's priority to help make the franchise into a blockbuster series!

Though the deleted scenes (which is only half the material still) on the DVD are not particularly great and some of it is even worse than what made the cut, there's some decent stuff with Picard getting a moment or two with each of his crew members. Like the B4 stuff at the end has more callbacks to a cut scene between Picard and Data that would have been earlier. Shinzon has an earlier introduction with Ron Pearlman discussing their plot and stuff which they cut so his REVEAL comes to the crew at the same time as the audience. Even though all that stuff was in the trailers, as was practically the entire final battle.

Also like some recent movies, a lot of the trailer lines are all in the deleted scenes.

[Joe Molotov]

Do any of the deleted scenes explain why Shinzon hid B4 right next to Bartertown or why the away team forget to wear their spiked shoulder pads to the dune buggy chase?

[chronovore]

I'd heard about the goofy episodes of Enterprise which explain why Klingons look different between TOS and TNG (Actually Search for Spock, but…) — I'd been dreading it, but it was actually pretty good. I've been a fan of John Schuck for years, and this was a good role for him. Also fun seeing a darker side of Starfleet with the espionage stuff.

Unfortunately, it was a great two-parter followed up by a weird piece of out-of-place fanservice, Bound, where Orion Slave Girls get the boys on Enterprise to fight each other! Let's face it: all of s4 is fanservice, but it's not been SEXY fanservice with uncomfortable gotchas and ha-ha-ha-women-are-manipulative-tramps themes. It was like some inept, woman-hating screenwriter said, "This should keep those lefties in check! I've written a turnaround in the third act!" Prurient awkwardness is the worst look for us geeks.

[Stoney Mason]

Rewatched Star Trek reboot 2009.


So giving it the best benefit of the doubt I can I think half of the movie is okay/fine and I think half of the movie is a mess.

The okay bit is the first half where its all basically just character building. Spock and Bones are done well. I've always been slightly less enthusiastic about Pine's version of Kirk, but I'm fine with acknowledging it as take on the character. I wish the entire movie was this with a much lighter plot

I would really potentially like that movie and their first adventure into space. Something where Bones and Spock and Kirk go on an away mission on a planet and you get to see the characters conflict with each other. Basically get in later in the movie and start faster rather than needing to show me kid kirk driving fast car off a cliff.

I understand why they took the plot the way they did. It's all dramatic for Vulcan to be destroyed and for Spock to have to play off of that. I just wish personally wish things were smaller in the first movie. The lead bad guy is a pure plot machination. Nemo is barely in the movie. His justification is silly thin. His is so poorly characterized and designed that he's indistinguishable to me from the other bad guy romulans he is with. He is as stock and generic and unmemorable a villain as you can put on the screen. He is only there to serve a plot point.

Nimoy shows up and delivers his usual gravitas and care into the role and its fine, even though it's a transparant/cynical attempt to lend importance and credibility to the film. This is the stupidest part of the movie. Spock dumps Kirk randomly into space at the exact point where he finds future spock. Spock then plot dumps the rest of the movie to Kirk since he's futureman. It's really dumb and only remotely "works" because we all respect Nimoy and just say fuck it whatever.

The rest of movie feels like any generic action movie of the last 10 years. It's one long action sequence that while it propels itself also feels confusing and just generally kind of boring to me at least. Nemo also has a dumb line where he says he should have killed Spock instead of his dumb Bond-esque decision not to kill spock right away and instead let him hang around and "suffer" the same way Nemo has. It's always great when writers give lines to their characters to sandpaper over the plotholes.

I get I'm in the minority on this one. This movie got excellent reviews and a lot of the general public and even hardcore star trek fans still like this movie to this day. It still baffles me a bit. Re-watching something like Wrath of Khan or Voyage Home make me admire those movies more. This just doesn't feel remotely like something that is on the level of those things. It's not a horrible movie by an means. It's fairly competent by modern movie standards. I just think that's a low bar to judge something on. I think the characters and actors are fine. But you need a decent or interesting plot for that to hang on to let them showcase their skills and for me that isn't this movie. Or it is maybe for only like half of it.

[Himu]

A lot of people like me like it for the first half. The second half is definitely not good but it's servicable and fun. Which definitely isn't a high bar but not Nemesis tier either.

[benjipwns]

I doubt you're in the minority here Stoney. (Also, "Nemo" )

I think it's even worse than average because it drops every single premise that makes it unique (they spend what...20 minutes at Starfleet Academy?) to go chase a Romulan in a big ship, which was done better in Nemesis. And they could have avoided a shit load of the plot holes by simply having it be a straight reboot instead of tying it to time travel and the old universe. Which doesn't matter because Nero never really explains it to Pike other than he's pissed at Spock, OLD SPOCK DOES in a flashback montage. (Thankfully a Romulan irrationally pissed at a crew member is new ground too...oh...wait.)

If they had altered it so Nero is just an angry Romulan dude who happens to come across this red matter shit and let it be a straight reboot they probably could have written the whole thing better. Even could have left in the whole Kirk opening by having it be some test Nero did back then, and the reason why nobody ever finds out about this for 25 years is that it took that long for Nero to stabilize it or whatever so he could fire it at Vulcan. With the whole prior event being an accident rather than a blatant and recorded attack that Starfleet doesn't seem too concerned about. And the only person to ever connect the dots is Kirk because he happened to be in the "wrong" place at the right time twice. (His birth and when Uhura comes into the dorm talking about the Klingon chatter.) If Nero is more of a terrorist Shinzon-like with a superweapon on an actual mining ship you can also justify a bunch of the shit like WHY DOES NO ONE CARE ABOUT THIS MASSIVE SHIP, WHY IS THE ENTIRE FLEET GOING ANYWHERE, WHY IS EARTH NOT BEING DEFENDED, etc. because nobody except the Enterprise crew is aware that it's got the superweapon on it and him putzing around the galaxy with it is more plausible.

The desire to ram all the old stuff into a reboot rather than exploring the new stuff is the same core problem Into Darkness has, on top of being even worse written. It also completely ditches all the premises it starts with to be mindless instead.

It's incredible that it takes until Beyond before anyone except Kirk-Spock-Uhura/Scotty interact for more than a few seconds or have an actual conversation other than some Kirk-McCoy set-asides. Kirk probably spends more time with Khan than he does his crew.

[benjipwns]

Do any of the deleted scenes explain why Shinzon hid B4 right next to Bartertown or why the away team forget to wear their spiked shoulder pads to the dune buggy chase?

Yep, replicators can't make pig shit. Weird flaw nobody has worked out of the system.

[chronovore]

Yesterday I saw both The Last Jedi and the series finale for Star Trek: Enterprise

I was really happy with TLJ, and pretty sad over the ending of Enterprise.

The Terra Prime stuff with Peter Weller looked like it would be a new organization to pursue action against. The increased emotion between Tucker and T'pol was fantastic - actually teared up a bit, but anything about parents and kids does that to me. The two-parter made sense, had clear and appropriate levels of government focus, and actually started giving Mayweather a few things to do, like show off his piloting skills and interact with a woman-of-questionable-intent.

Then we get to "These Are the Voyages…"

It's meant to be a send-off for Enterprise, but it's a hook back into a TNG episode. Both Frakes and Sirtis look older and heavier than they did during the series, but Frakes is enjoyable to watch as the never-before-seen "Chef." Instead of focusing on what made Enterprise work, they retreated to what worked best for Trek most recently, which is Next Gen. Though, since ENT was canceled, obviously it didn't work enough.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Killing off Tucker that way was inconsistent bullshit with the tone of the rest of the show. There was NOTHING that hadn't been faced better, previously. Bringing back Shran for the show was cool, and at the same time the duplicity of why they needed that gem, why the privateers were able to catch up with a WARP FUCKING SEVEN NX-01, how they were able to transport directly onto the ship, in warp…

[close]

It was just a dumb way for things to unravel just so they could kill off the fan-favorite character. All that other stuff is left unaddressed, mainly as highlights between historical footnotes for the TNG crew to peruse and say, "Yeah, the ENT stuff is, like, still super-important even now. I had to memorize Archer's speech in grade school!" — and then yet leave that speech unheard by the audience.

It also is shot fairly poorly and cheaply - there's a battle in what clearly looks like a hastily set-dressed warehouse, because I guess most of the budget was blown by Union/Guild workers retrieving the TNG hallways and a portion of Ten-Forward.

Gah, I am annoyed. I think ENTERPRISE is as good as TNG overall, and its final season is now my favorite season of Trek, with the exception of that self-serving and petty series finale.

[Himu]

Wow. I gotta catch Enterprise now.

[chronovore]

You totally should.

The first season is pretty good, out of the gate. Other Trek shows take some time to get up and running, but this was enjoyable from Day One. Season 3 is very clearly a shift to talk about post-9/11 stuff, which I felt was too on-the-nose. At the same time, it's the first completely serialized season of Trek, which I enjoyed.

With the falling ratings, I understand that Brannon/Braga kind of threw it to a husband and wife team who loved trek and gave them free reign -- but it was too little, too late. Well, shit, it's not even "too little." Season 4 is awesome if you're into Trek lore. So many callbacks, references, and just a bunch of fun.

One last dig at the series finale, which I found in a review: "But ultimately, I can’t hate this episode, because it’s scripted by Berman and Braga, and going into it, I never even had the slightest glimmer of hope that they would rise to the occasion and pull off something worthy of the end of a franchise. Hating this episode is a bit like hating Michael Bay for making big, dumb, loud movies. Hating this episode is like hating your dog for pooping on the carpet. I mean, he’s a dog. What else did you expect him to do?"

[benjipwns]

[benjipwns]

better

[Tasty]

The Wrath of Khan one was hot as fuck.

[Stoney Mason]

lol at the trailers.

I think I like the motion picture more.

[Himu]

Motion Picture one was fantastic. Wow.

[benjipwns]

maybe the only changes i'd make to really modernize it is to use some kind of popular song and carelessly reveal more of the plot like directly show Ilia's whole thing when she becomes a probe, plus oh, more shots of the klingons from the start of the movie as if it's a grand battle scene

setting up spock's line and the last shot of the trailer being the ending was

[Momo]

First time seeing this, saw it on reddit earlier

[Stoney Mason]

http://variety.com/2018/tv/features/star-trek-ds9-25th-anniversary-interview-1202648047/

Also discovery is back this week.

[Momo]

Oh hey, so star trek was on last night and they revealed the incredibly obvious

spoiler (click to show/hide)

different universe, socially awkward girl is captain and tyler = klingon

[close]

stuff, yay.

[Madrun Badrun]

Kira with white hair - OMG i feel old now. 

[Momo]

[Stoney Mason]

meh episode of discovery last night.

I think its a little early in the run of the show to go full on

spoiler (click to show/hide)

mirror universe for extended time.

[close]

That's a plot mechanic you generally save for later rather than earlier since you generally want to build out the universe before you do it. We'll see where it goes.

Stuff happened in the episode in the form of the expected.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

(reveal of Voq)

[close]

And unexpected when he

spoiler (click to show/hide)

killed Doctor.

[close]

but it felt mainly like a setup episode which is why it felt meh.

[Stoney Mason]

Thought this was a fun listen also.

Also related.

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/09/star-trek-discovery-klingon-language-translation-1201880882/

[Himu]

When Mike and Rich say Discovery is not for Star Trek fans what they really mean is that it's not for TNG fanboys it seems.

[Momo]

Eh, I'd encourage you to watch some of DS9 at least, not going to cape for Enterprise like some here and wont pretend Voyager isnt 60%+ rage inducing episodes but DS9 is legit. TNG is my favorite and I go back and watch it and DS9 eps often.

[Himu]

I dunno, I'm new to Trek but I can definitely say neither Discovery nor The Orville appeal to me. If I were to be more honest neither Voyager nor DS9 are shows I'm keen on starting. I've reached the 6th season of TNG and plan on watching TOS plus all the old timeline movies(good or not) and I'm fine leaving it at that.

DS9 is the best Trek. That would be a mistake. DS9 is a complimentary show to TNG. TNG is "this is the future, that future is an utopia". DS9 is "so you've created an utopia, how do you make it stay that way? What next?"