Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba baaaa

[AdmiralViscen]

Obviously my post moved on from your 4 word post to the stupidity surrounding today's republicans/McCain machine as a whole.

And honestly, I don't know how you expect someone to separate your funny rolleyes jokes from the 'serious' posts you make that are just as stupid.

[MrAngryFace]

I dont get why ANYONE making less than 250k a year is a republican aside from giving in to fear.

[Van Cruncheon]

I dont get why ANYONE making less than 250k a year is a republican aside from giving in to fear.

especially given that obama is going to REDUCE their tax burden by shifting it to the rich folk

then again, most idiots who make 60k/household think they are "rich," and the gop preys on their ignorance

fuckers, you aren't upper-class until you crest at LEAST 250k/year, if not more

hell, my brother makes over 300k/yr and he's a dirty librul -- far moreso than even me -- and he has no problem paying higher taxes even though he'd take home more at a lower bracket because he understands that without a stable social infrastructure there is no market for boutique graphics design

stupid dirty american middle-class who don't realize they NEED government breaks and assistance

[Ganhyun]

I seen this somewhere on the web this weekend. I figured i'd share it with you guys since I know the more liberal of you will want to slam it.  

[Beardo]

I heard that most of the Midwestern red states are full of rich oil barons and CEOs!!

Oh those Evil repuglicans. (see what I did there? Im so clever.)

[Oblivion]

How much do you make, Drinky?

[Van Cruncheon]

i can't even begin to understand that comic

so, lemme try

the vice presidential "ring" of all things is desired by the evil lord WHO -- it can't be hilary, because she's gollum

but plucky palin happened upon it while having a riddle contest with hilary

so palin will take the ring to mount doom -- i mean the white house -- and cast it into the fire to end the power of the vice presidency forever WHAT

WHAT

WHAT

WHAT

WHAT

*** SEGMENTATION FAULT at 0x00FE330892 in pprole.exe: CORE DUMPED ***

[Eric P]

i just think it's sexist to have women fighting over a ring

[Van Cruncheon]

oblivion, it's a secret, but i will bet a copy of too human that i am far closer to that 250k/yr than any republican posting in this thread

[Tristam]

I dont get why ANYONE making less than 250k a year is a republican aside from giving in to fear.

especially given that obama is going to REDUCE their tax burden by shifting it to the rich folk

then again, most idiots who make 60k/household think they are "rich," and the gop preys on their ignorance

fuckers, you aren't upper-class until you crest at LEAST 250k/year, if not more

hell, my brother makes over 300k/yr and he's a dirty librul -- far moreso than even me -- and he has no problem paying higher taxes even though he'd take home more at a lower bracket because he understands that without a stable social infrastructure there is no market for boutique graphics design

stupid dirty american middle-class who don't realize they NEED government breaks and assistance

300k per year for boutique graphics design? WTF have I been wasting my time on?  :'(

[Ganhyun]

i can't even begin to understand that comic

so, lemme try

the vice presidential "ring" of all things is desired by the evil lord WHO -- it can't be hilary, because she's gollum

but plucky palin happened upon it while having a riddle content with hilary

so palin will take the ring to mount doom -- i mean the white house -- and cast it into the fire to end the power of the vice presidency forever WHAT

WHAT

WHAT

WHAT

WHAT

*** SEGMENTATION FAULT at 0x00FE330892 in pprole.exe: CORE DUMPED ***

lol. Trust me, I don't get it either. I just thought it was funny and figured i'd let you guys have a whack at it so to speak.

Consider it a free bashing object if you will.

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Or is it really all a trick to confuse and befuddle your liberal minds??

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Mwuahahaha

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Umm no, at least not on my part.

[close]

[Beardo]

hell, my brother makes over 300k/yr and he's a dirty librul -- far moreso than even me -- and he has no problem paying higher taxes even though he'd take home more at a lower bracket because he understands that without a stable social infrastructure there is no market for boutique graphics design

ORLY?

[Van Cruncheon]

I dont get why ANYONE making less than 250k a year is a republican aside from giving in to fear.

especially given that obama is going to REDUCE their tax burden by shifting it to the rich folk

then again, most idiots who make 60k/household think they are "rich," and the gop preys on their ignorance

fuckers, you aren't upper-class until you crest at LEAST 250k/year, if not more

hell, my brother makes over 300k/yr and he's a dirty librul -- far moreso than even me -- and he has no problem paying higher taxes even though he'd take home more at a lower bracket because he understands that without a stable social infrastructure there is no market for boutique graphics design

stupid dirty american middle-class who don't realize they NEED government breaks and assistance

300k per year for boutique graphics design? WTF have I been wasting my time on?  :'(

he is an actual entrepreneur with the drive, passion, and talent most americans wish they had -- and unlike most folks in his pay bracket, he actually earns his money

yet he also recognizes a need for a stable society and his own social responsibility

maybe it's this maturity and perspective that makes him a true entrepreneur, and not an entrepreneur groupie/wannabe like most middle-class republicans

[MrAngryFace]

I seen this somewhere on the web this weekend. I figured i'd share it with you guys since I know the more liberal of you will want to slam it.  


(Image removed from quote.)

What's to slam? It was clear hillary wanted the presidency, and its safe to assume she would still like to be president.

[ShogunOfFear]

About the minimum wage thing I'd just like to say this.  While I'm sure it was done for a good purpose it has had a small negative affect on the middle class.  I can think of a couple of local examples where small businesses raised prices on their products the day it was raised, one even posted a sign about it (which is bad considering prices have increased due to gas prices anyway.)  Some cut hours, other hired less, and some put more responsibility on the worker to in their eyes justify the increase. 

I guess my question is how much have we helped someone when we throw them a dollar more, but the business in turn raises prices on certain products say 20%, and how did that help the middle class making things 20% more expensive for them? 

Can't we find a solution to provide more jobs that are better than minimum wage jobs in this country?  I suppose some of the problems with that are also connected to our education issues, but it's just a thought, carry on.

[MrAngryFace]

Most of the skilled labor is shipped overseas to save money, I am not so certain its an education issue even if lately, its become clear the quality of our education is fading. I mean we can bitch and moan bout min wage, but its really the low wage in some other country and a company's ability to shove work over there that hurts us.

[Tristam]

I dont get why ANYONE making less than 250k a year is a republican aside from giving in to fear.

especially given that obama is going to REDUCE their tax burden by shifting it to the rich folk

then again, most idiots who make 60k/household think they are "rich," and the gop preys on their ignorance

fuckers, you aren't upper-class until you crest at LEAST 250k/year, if not more

hell, my brother makes over 300k/yr and he's a dirty librul -- far moreso than even me -- and he has no problem paying higher taxes even though he'd take home more at a lower bracket because he understands that without a stable social infrastructure there is no market for boutique graphics design

stupid dirty american middle-class who don't realize they NEED government breaks and assistance

300k per year for boutique graphics design? WTF have I been wasting my time on?  :'(

he is an actual entrepreneur with the drive, passion, and talent most americans wish they had -- and unlike most folks in his pay bracket, he actually earns his money

yet he also recognizes a need for a stable society and his own social responsibility

maybe it's this maturity and perspective that makes him a true entrepreneur, and not an entrepreneur groupie/wannabe like most middle-class republicans

You can't get the last point through to Ganhyun, and now I know why: Rob Smith cartoons are inspiration for his political observations.

[Ganhyun]

About the minimum wage thing I'd just like to say this.  While I'm sure it was done for a good purpose it has had a small negative affect on the middle class.  I can think of a couple of local examples where small businesses raised prices on their products the day it was raised, one even posted a sign about it (which is bad considering prices have increased due to gas prices anyway.)  Some cut hours, other hired less, and some put more responsibility on the worker to in their eyes justify the increase. 

I guess my question is how much have we helped someone when we throw them a dollar more, but the business in turn raises prices on certain products say 20%, and how did that help the middle class making things 20% more expensive for them? 

Can't we find a solution to provide more jobs that are better than minimum wage jobs in this country?  I suppose some of the problems with that are also connected to our education issues, but it's just a thought, carry on.

Education could very well be a big part, but a bigger part is companies sending jobs overseas to cheaper labor. After all, why pay an American who buys your product minimum wage or a decent wage, when you can just overseas that to China/India/etc and pay them the equivalent of 2 dollars to do the same thing? Even with shipping back to the states they save and get more profit.

Edit: Wow me and MAF agreee, lol.

[Beardo]

Most of the skilled labor is shipped overseas to save money, I am not so certain its an education issue even if lately, its become clear the quality of our education is fading. I mean we can bitch and moan bout min wage, but its really the low wage in some other country and a company's ability to shove work over there that hurts us.

What should be done about education? In my opinion most of the kids (22 and below) dont understand the value of education. But I dont know how to solve that problem.

[Ganhyun]

I dont get why ANYONE making less than 250k a year is a republican aside from giving in to fear.

especially given that obama is going to REDUCE their tax burden by shifting it to the rich folk

then again, most idiots who make 60k/household think they are "rich," and the gop preys on their ignorance

fuckers, you aren't upper-class until you crest at LEAST 250k/year, if not more

hell, my brother makes over 300k/yr and he's a dirty librul -- far moreso than even me -- and he has no problem paying higher taxes even though he'd take home more at a lower bracket because he understands that without a stable social infrastructure there is no market for boutique graphics design

stupid dirty american middle-class who don't realize they NEED government breaks and assistance

300k per year for boutique graphics design? WTF have I been wasting my time on?  :'(

he is an actual entrepreneur with the drive, passion, and talent most americans wish they had -- and unlike most folks in his pay bracket, he actually earns his money

yet he also recognizes a need for a stable society and his own social responsibility

maybe it's this maturity and perspective that makes him a true entrepreneur, and not an entrepreneur groupie/wannabe like most middle-class republicans

You can't get the last point through to Ganhyun, and now I know why: Rob Smith cartoons are inspiration for his political observations.

Ok, I post 1 cartoon I found randomly browsing the web and thought was funy for you guys to make fun of, and its the source of all my political observations?

Brilliant!! (done in the Guiness beer commercial voice)

Love how you are quick to jump to conclusions Tristam.

[Beardo]

Ganhyun even admitted in his original post that he didnt know what to think of the comic. Poli-bore SMH.

[MrAngryFace]

The conservative in me would start preaching family values and involvement when it comes to education, but also teachers need to be paid more, and rewarded long term: A lot of teachers burn out within two years, after pouring all of their enthusiasm and sometimes some of their own money to properly educate children in an overcrowded and underfunded classroom. That deserves far more than a pat on the back.

I also think the drive for quality education begins at home and ends in school. If parents don't spend time methodically educating their children and fostering a desire to learn, then the kids probably wont give much a shit. Too many parents believe their child is some genius and they'll just go about learn'n their own way, but i believe children are largely a product of their environment, and if a parent fails to create the proper environment well then its over before it started.

[Ganhyun]

Ganhyun even admitted in his original post that he didnt know what to think of the comic. Poli-bore SMH.

lol Beardo. Its ok. Since i admitted I have Conservative leanings on alot of issues, Poli-bore does what they can, at least some do not all, to try and discredit me. The funny thing is, I must not be some total monster if MAF an I shared the same idea on the cause of a problem.

[Beardo]

I can agree with most of that. But how do you tell parents to shape up and start teaching their kids the value of education.

[MrAngryFace]

Ganhyun even admitted in his original post that he didnt know what to think of the comic. Poli-bore SMH.

lol Beardo. Its ok. Since i admitted I have Conservative leanings on alot of issues, Poli-bore does what they can, at least some do not all, to try and discredit me. The funny thing is, I must not be some total monster if MAF an I shared the same idea on the cause of a problem.

I'm realistic. All the education in the world won't make a job appear for a kid right out of university.

I can agree with most of that. But how do you tell parents to shape up and start teaching their kids the value of education.

You can't and that is the problem. Most of it stems from an apathy that has been growing for a while. One of the downsides of having a country with too many identities (LOL MELTING POT WAT) is that you never get that unified push towards universal goals; plus when that kinda stuff happens with govt involvement you have to worry. Its not that we cant, its just become so complicated to even suggest what 'needs to be done' without the proposition becoming volatile.

[Tristam]

Oh brave martyrs, champions of American values!

If it weren't so easy to push your buttons I probably wouldn't even try. 

[Ganhyun]

The conservative in me would start preaching family values and involvement when it comes to education, but also teachers need to be paid more, and rewarded long term: A lot of teachers burn out within two years, after pouring all of their enthusiasm and sometimes some of their own money to properly educate children in an overcrowded and underfunded classroom. That deserves far more than a pat on the back.

I also think the drive for quality education begins at home and ends in school. If parents don't spend time methodically educating their children and fostering a desire to learn, then the kids probably wont give much a shit. Too many parents believe their child is some genius and they'll just go about learn'n their own way, but i believe children are largely a product of their environment, and if a parent fails to create the proper environment well then its over before it started.

Teachers do need more pay and need more support. Also, parents need to do their part, as you said.

[Ganhyun]

I can agree with most of that. But how do you tell parents to shape up and start teaching their kids the value of education.

Parents have to do their part. Too many never even try to help give theirs kids a desire to learn. Most just give them a bunch of toys now-a-days and leave it at that. No learning books they go over with them. No encouraging reading/learning.

Edit: but a big thing parents need to do is man/woman up and admit that their kid isn't a saint. I was watching the True TV show the other night about school Principals and students. The principal had a student in his office for skipping and while she was in there her cell went off. (There was a no cell phone in scholl policy) The principal took it from her and found out that not only was she skipping, she was texting a friend in another class as well, distracting that girl. So he calls that girl to the office and warns her about cell phone use and punishes the girl skipping with ISS. He also tells the girl skipping that she can't have her phone back, her mother has to come get it from him.  So he calls the mother and she gets there all pissed off because her daughter has gotten ISS. The principal gives the mother the phone and the mother immediantly gives the phone to her daughter and says that its her daughter's phone, she can have it on her when she wants. The principal explains that ok, it must be off at school as per policy. He warns that multiple abuses of the rule increases the puinishment on that. He states that if she keeps breaking that rule, the school will take the phone and keep it from her until the end of the year. The mother is pissed now. The principal explains that if she is unhappy with the policy, which is a standard in many schools, then she shouldn't have signed the form stating she read, understood, and agreed with the school policies. In the end, mother stomps out, kid smirks and starts using her cell right outside principal's door, and principal explains to viewers that this is how most parents are when their child gets in trouble: Its never the child's fault its the schools.

[Phoenix Dark]

The conservative in me would start preaching family values and involvement when it comes to education, but also teachers need to be paid more, and rewarded long term: A lot of teachers burn out within two years, after pouring all of their enthusiasm and sometimes some of their own money to properly educate children in an overcrowded and underfunded classroom. That deserves far more than a pat on the back.

I also think the drive for quality education begins at home and ends in school. If parents don't spend time methodically educating their children and fostering a desire to learn, then the kids probably wont give much a shit. Too many parents believe their child is some genius and they'll just go about learn'n their own way, but i believe children are largely a product of their environment, and if a parent fails to create the proper environment well then its over before it started.

qft

you'd be a good dad

[The Fake Shemp]

Massive education reforms have been needed for awhile.  The reliance on standardized test scores have failed the system as our nation has grown larger.  All we've created is a bunch of monotonous drones that only remember the bare minimum of information required to graduate.  Not to mention the lack of quality teachers or teachers in general due to the lack of pay, the fact that higher education seems so out of reach for impoverished families that most children don't even finish high school and stupid religious garbage like Creationism seeping into school curriculum.  Think any half way decent teacher wants to work in a public school system that is a proponent of Creationism?

Colleges are even bigger of a joke.  Even kids that live comfortably, such as myself, require assistance from their parents in the way of credit checks or what have you.  What about kids whose parents have awful credit?  Who make nothing?  Even if they get government assistance, it rarely covers the total cost of education and the loans are huge.  How many kids carry the heavy burden of costly student loans nowadays?  It's pretty bad.

Not to mention that I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the end of the unemployment spike (10% anyone?).  We are no longer the center of jobs for pretty much anything.  Labor is being outsourced, technology is being outsourced and science and idea-based jobs are being cultivated elsewhere.  There is nothing driving jobs here anymore except for money and services.

[Beardo]

Actually Wilco the rising cost of education is a result of the rise government loans for education. If more people can go to college it will cost more which in turn leads to needing more money which will make college even more expensive.

[The Fake Shemp]

That's a load of crock.  Any halfway intelligent person will tell you that tuition costs have risen much faster than inflation or any market variables.  The real reason is most state universities have seen state funds cut or stay completely stagnant.

[Ganhyun]

Actually Wilco the rising cost of education is a result of the rise government loans for education. If more people can go to college it will cost more which in turn leads to needing more money which will make college even more expensive.

anecdotal evidence: During my college years, it was pretty much understood that the reason prices were so high for books, loans, etc, was because of government programs that guaranteed the money for the students. Like in Georgia. The state did the HOPE Scholarship. Once that happened, the avg price of Tuition rose around 10-20% every year because the schools knew the government would foot the bill because kids could get HOPE. So if their prices went up, then oh well, the kid wasn't paying (HOPE covers all tuition costs, and gives a lousy amount for books) for it the feds were.

 

[The Fake Shemp]

Why would Pell Grants raise the price?  It's federal financial aid exclusively for low income families, which has no bearing on the cost of tuition.  A university won't raise the price on tuition to avoid dirty poors entrance - that's silly.

The reality is what the two of you GOP dumbfucks fail to realize: over the past eight years, under mostly Republican rule (Maryland included - fuck you Erhlich!), universities have seen their state and federal funds cut.

[Mr. Gundam]

My wife and I make about $125,000/year combined. Under Obama our taxes would actually go down slightly, but we also realize the importance of paying taxes, and have no problem doing so.

[Ganhyun]

Why would Pell Grants raise the price?  It's federal financial aid exclusively for low income families, which has no bearing on the cost of tuition.  A university won't raise the price on tuition to avoid dirty poors entrance - that's silly.

The reality is what the two of you GOP dumbfucks fail to realize: over the past eight years, under mostly Republican rule (Maryland included - fuck you Erhlich!), universities have seen their state and federal funds cut.

Well, not sure about all the states, but I didnt realize PELL was dirty poor only. so I retract the statement that it is part of reason tution costs rose. I couldnt get it, I could only get HOPE anyway myself.

But I know GA limited HOPE to a certain number of credit hours per person because they started finding that basically the same people over and over and over kept going back to school on HOPE's dime and getting several different associates degrees and such and never actually working. It was as if school was their job.

[Oblivion]

Colleges are even bigger of a joke.  Even kids that live comfortably, such as myself, require assistance from their parents in the way of credit checks or what have you.  What about kids whose parents have awful credit?  Who make nothing?  Even if they get government assistance, it rarely covers the total cost of education and the loans are huge. 

I wasn't able to transfer to a university for 3 years because I couldn't get financial aid, since I wasn't living with my parents (that was 3 years AFTER I completed my required units, mind you). The whole FAFSA thing seriously needs a fucking rewrite.

[hyp]

same here, the wife and i have no problem with paying taxes and we're in one of the higher tax brackets.  in fact, it's part of our budget so it doesn't come as a surprise at the end of the year.  

[Mr. Gundam]

same here, the wife and i have no problem with paying taxes and we're in one of the higher tax brackets.  in fact, it's part of our budget so it doesn't come as a surprise at the end of the year. 

We got bumped into a higher bracket last year, so we're taxed even more now. Hooray for all the interest we're paying on our mortgage!

[hyp]

We got bumped into a higher bracket last year, so we're taxed even more now. Hooray for all the interest we're paying on our mortgage!

  i feel you brother.  hooray for the mortgage.  

[Ganhyun]

Colleges are even bigger of a joke.  Even kids that live comfortably, such as myself, require assistance from their parents in the way of credit checks or what have you.  What about kids whose parents have awful credit?  Who make nothing?  Even if they get government assistance, it rarely covers the total cost of education and the loans are huge. 

I wasn't able to transfer to a university for 3 years because I couldn't get financial aid, since I wasn't living with my parents (that was 3 years AFTER I completed my required units, mind you). The whole FAFSA thing seriously needs a fucking rewrite.

It does need to be rewritten. The current system is broken since the same students can go to the same school long enough to get 3-6 associate degrees in completely different areas and get aid, yet those who try to further themselves in their picked career get shafted.

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, furthermore, Pell Grants rarely cover the total cost of education.  And it's incremental.  The government will give you more assistance as you go along - basically proving to them that you aren't wasting taxpayers' time.

A lot of aid isn't accessible to a good portion of students that hover between poverty and lower middle class too.  They're kind of just stuck.  It's unfortunate.

Also, I'd be happy to take home less, as long as we used the increased funds to fuel job growth and our economy.  I'm a big supporter of creating a labor and scientific workforce for the sole purpose of researching and manufacturing green products.  It would help us ween off of fossil fuels, help the environment and create much needed jobs.  Is there any reason why we can't be the number one manufacturer of Tesla electric cars?  More efficient solar panels and installation?

[Van Cruncheon]

Why would Pell Grants raise the price?  It's federal financial aid exclusively for low income families, which has no bearing on the cost of tuition.  A university won't raise the price on tuition to avoid dirty poors entrance - that's silly.

The reality is what the two of you GOP dumbfucks fail to realize: over the past eight years, under mostly Republican rule (Maryland included - fuck you Erhlich!), universities have seen their state and federal funds cut.

Well, not sure about all the states, but I didnt realize PELL was dirty poor only. so I retract the statement that it is part of reason tution costs rose. I couldnt get it, I could only get HOPE anyway myself.

But I know GA limited HOPE to a certain number of credit hours per person because they started finding that basically the same people over and over and over kept going back to school on HOPE's dime and getting several different associates degrees and such and never actually working. It was as if school was their job.

so you point to a few folks that abuse the system, and suddenly those edge cases are the root cause? how do you feel about them welfare moms?

[The Fake Shemp]

One of the Huffington Post articles stated that McCain and one of his spokespersons defended the sex-ed ad attacking Obama. To anyone who saw it: how exactly did they go about defending something like that?

He said that even if it didn't teach them about sex ed, it taught them about STDs.  I'm not even sure if that's true, though.

[Van Cruncheon]

what's the obsession with keeping kids ignorant about sex? a healthy discussion about it sure beats having them inevitably learn about it from mtv, miley cyrus, and consumer culture in general

BOBOBOBO THE MARKET SEZ SEX SELLS

[MrAngryFace]

One of the Huffington Post articles stated that McCain and one of his spokespersons defended the sex-ed ad attacking Obama. To anyone who saw it: how exactly did they go about defending something like that?

KELLY: Why did John McCain suggests in an ad that Barack Obama supported, comprehensive sex-ed for kindergartners?

BOUNDS: You'll notice that the Obama campaign has never refuted that. They voted for that in Barack Obama's committee. His committee that he chaired voted to pass that legislation. If you examine the language in the bill--

KELLY: I looked at the language in the bill.

BOUNDS: I know you will have an Obama person on later, I hope that you will ask them if there was language in the bill that actually talked about sex education for kindergartners.

KELLY: The language in the bill talks about age appropriate sex ed, including education about child predators and inappropriate touching. What is wrong with that?

BOUNDS: And sexually transmitted diseases.

KELLY: Right. Why wouldn't you want a kindergartner to be educated somewhat about inappropriate touching from adults?

BOUNDS: About sexually transmitted diseases?

KELLY: No! No! [crosstalk] His campaign says that's not fair, what he was backing was trying to educate little kindergartners on how to avoid sexual predators' and that you are distorting the language of the bill. Your response.

BOUNDS: We did not distort the language of the bill. We told voters that he voted in favor of this education. That is a reform that is on his record. If we cannot talk about the votes that he's actually taken, if we can't talk about the fact that he is supporting higher taxes or has proposed more taxes in a down economy when americans are struggling, what can we talk about? It is an important debate. Let's talk about the facts. No more of the dishonest, sleazy accusations. What he is trying to do is divert attention away from the fact that he is no proven record of making reforms. When voters go to the ballot in November, they will vote for someone who has a record of reform and bipartisanship. That is John McCain, not Barack Obama.

This was on Fox News of all places. Not to mention Oreilly paying lip service to Obama in an interview, even if somewhat muted.

[tiesto]

The only people who cant afford healthcare are poor people who dont work hard enough.

What if somebody gets laid off from their IT job because the company in question wants to lower costs and increase shareholder profits by outsourcing to India... then they are unable to find another job right away because the economy isn't exactly in good shape... and god forbid they fall and break their back? I've heard of this happening to somebody, he ended up owing almost $80,000 in medical bills.

Not every job offers healthcare, either. I can think of one giant company who's name rhymes with "Sprawl Fart" that purposely cuts down worker hours just so they're not fulltime, and the company doesn't have to pay for healthcare. In fact, this company is a primary employer out in poor, rural areas.

[Flannel Boy]

I was in class all morning; I can't believe this thread has moved so fast. Has FoC created more joke characters?

I can think of a couple of local examples where small businesses raised prices on their products the day it was raised, one even posted a sign about it (which is bad considering prices have increased due to gas prices anyway.) 

This assumes that the merchant is being honest, and not using this as a convenient opportunity to raise prices.

I guess my question is how much have we helped someone when we throw them a dollar more, but the business in turn raises prices on certain products say 20%, and how did that help the middle class making things 20% more expensive for them?  

Such large increases in prices could not result from such small increases in salaries for such a small part of the economy. I think less than 2% of workers make the federal minimum wage or less. And their wages account for far less than 1% of the costs of all goods and services in America. So how would an increase in their wages lead to things being 20% more expensive for the middle class.

For example, if you doubled farm laborers' salaries, you would increase the price of lettuce by only six percent. Now this is a good which requires many low wage earners. Other good, like cars, which require few low wage earners, would not be affected at all.

Don't pull numbers from your ass.

[tiesto]

John McCain Rolls Out New Economic Policy, "Work Harder, Stop Complaining"

Did McCain hire Ken Kutaragi as policy maker now?

[duckman2000]

what's the obsession with keeping kids ignorant about sex? a healthy discussion about it sure beats having them inevitably learn about it from mtv, miley cyrus, and consumer culture in general

BOBOBOBO THE MARKET SEZ SEX SELLS

Fucked up social views based on fear of primal urges, combined with good old see-no-evil community base. It's akin to Ma and Pa Christfellow seemingly believing that a man and a woman sleeping in the same room automatically means that they are going to nookie.

[Ganhyun]

Why would Pell Grants raise the price?  It's federal financial aid exclusively for low income families, which has no bearing on the cost of tuition.  A university won't raise the price on tuition to avoid dirty poors entrance - that's silly.

The reality is what the two of you GOP dumbfucks fail to realize: over the past eight years, under mostly Republican rule (Maryland included - fuck you Erhlich!), universities have seen their state and federal funds cut.

Well, not sure about all the states, but I didnt realize PELL was dirty poor only. so I retract the statement that it is part of reason tution costs rose. I couldnt get it, I could only get HOPE anyway myself.

But I know GA limited HOPE to a certain number of credit hours per person because they started finding that basically the same people over and over and over kept going back to school on HOPE's dime and getting several different associates degrees and such and never actually working. It was as if school was their job.

so you point to a few folks that abuse the system, and suddenly those edge cases are the root cause? how do you feel about them welfare moms?

I feel for them in a way, but honestly Prole, I can't feel as bad as I want for most.

HOPE/PELL/etc are great programs. They are there for a reason. To help people go to college. I agree. But the HOPE system wasn't just a few people. I read that basically every technical college/trade school in GA had hundreds of students doing this. The 4 year schools did as well. Students would get an associate in something then start a new path, and keep going.  Basically abusing the system, which leads to issues such as Oblivion's, where legit students get shafted.

But, and this is anecdotal Prole, so I know it doesn't apply to all, but this sours me on welfare:

My grandmother has Epilepsy. She cant drive a car, she cant work most jobs since she has attacks pretty often and would have to have alot of supervision. So she gets SSi/welfare. She gets 7-800 a month. Her apartment, government sponsored, takes 1/4 of that for rent. so 200 from 800. that leaves 600. She has to pay for lights/food/phone/etc. That leaves her with no money and usually us helping with her bills too. Yet in the same complex, I see welfare moms with 3-4 kids with new cars and sound systems in and specialty rims on the cars whining because they don't get enough money.  Yet the government wants to lower the amount my Granny gets and give these people who do nothing but sit on their asses all day more? Why should i help them?

I am agreeable to helping legit welfare moms who try to get jobs and such. But these like i see? no.

[The Fake Shemp]

I think there is a growing backlash in the media over this McCain crap.  Political doubletalk and stretching truths are one thing, but flat out lies are another.  The whole bit where McCain says Palin NEVER took earmarks as governor?  Are you kidding me?

[MrAngryFace]

Too bad the media doesn't matter. They've convinced the dumbs to go one way already, and the dumbs will not change course in fear of looking WRONG.

[Phoenix Dark]

On afternoon conference call, Obama and Michigan Democratic officials say they are seeking an injunction to block alleged “caging” by the state GOP– using home foreclosure lists to seek to block residents from voting.

Obama counsel Bob Bauer: “It is an absolute attack on their right to vote” and a “completely false and completely illegal basis” to challenge votes.

“This is a standard operating procedure within the Republican party that’s been under legal challenge.”

The Macomb party chair denies the comments attributed to him.

http://thepage.time.com/2008/09/16/o...hisement-plan/

oh hell yea

I'm sure the GOP will pull off some shenanigans but Obama's legal team+dem control in battleground states like Ohio=less bullshit. I wonder what would have happened if Kerry had a similar legal team/ground game.

[Van Cruncheon]

society will ALWAYS have leeches. to make welfare work perfectly, you will hafta raise taxes and create an untenable bureaucracy chasing an unrealistic dream. really, shouldn't you be happy that your granny is getting the assistance she needs, and spend less time worrying about society's worthless leeches? remove welfare, and they will find new ways to be leeches (most of their "wealth" comes from their association with illegal drugs and fencing) -- it's what they do. part of becoming an adult is recognizing that there will ALWAYS be people who are little boils on society in general, and that is neither your duty nor obligation to hold society back or refuse to help people because of said leeches existence.

[MrAngryFace]

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/09/16/palin-to-meet-foreign-leaders-at-un/?mod=blog -- this still doesnt count as foreign policy experience, come on.

[The Fake Shemp]

Too bad the media doesn't matter. They've convinced the dumbs to go one way already, and the dumbs will not change course in fear of looking WRONG.

Dude, some spokesperson for McCain claimed he created the BlackBerry today.  I don't even think John McCain knows how to use a microwave.

[hyp]

i'd love for there to be universal healthcare available.  at least that would give me the option of freelancing or working as a consultant.  right now i'm on lockdown at my job because my family depends on the health benefits. sucks to be me.

there are many cases where universal healthcare would be beneficial.

[Ganhyun]

society will ALWAYS have leeches. to make welfare work perfectly, you will hafta raise taxes and create an untenable bureaucracy chasing an unrealistic dream. really, shouldn't you be happy that your granny is getting the assistance she needs, and spend less time worrying about society's worthless leeches? remove welfare, and they will find new ways to be leeches -- it's what they do. part of becoming an adult is recognizing that there will ALWAYS be people who are little boils on society in general, and that is neither your duty nor obligation to hold society back or refuse to help people because of said leeches existence.

I agree that society will always have leeches.

But I still say that maybe visits to check on these people or to at least check to see if they are trying to get jobs is a valid option.

But yea, i'm happy my granny at least gets what she gets, but other than that me and the rest of the family take care of her. It is my granny after all.

[The Fake Shemp]

Palin is a ball of lies.  Federal earmarks, going into Iraq (not!), her flight layover in Ireland constituting as foreign policy experience, this whole Troopergate fiasco, etc.

But people love her.  Go figure.