Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba baaaa

[Human Snorenado]

Florida definitely seems better positioned than Ohio at this point. The demographics in FL are better for Obama and McCain's had his head in the sand there for months, assuming that Obama wouldn't seriously compete there. Oops!

NC is Obama's if he can keep up the mix of "tied" and "+3 McCain" polling results. Anything near +2 McCain in the final polling means Obama wins here, McCain has nothing on the ground and NC Dems have been busting their butts like crazy for their ticket. Turnout is expected to be enormous given the races on the ballot this year.

and yeah, nothing good comes from Ohio. FACT.

You think so about NC, Frag?  I'm reminded of my overconfidence going into the TX and OH primaries- I thought that Obama's ground game would be enough to swing up to a four point advantage his way.  Didn't work out that way in the end, sadly. 

I *DO* think that there's a lot at stake in NC this election, tho.  We've got the shithead mayor of Charlotte trying to take over the state and Chuck Schumer wanting to add Liddy's scalp to his trophy case.  Out here in Wilmington, there's a particularly contentious state Senate race going on- Dem incumbent Julia Boseman is at risk because A) she's gay B) separated from her partner which resulted in a contentious custody battle for their child.  There's been shitty push polling asking basically "how would you feel about your Democrat state senator if you found out that she was a lesbian who had just had a court battle with her ex-partner over custody of their queer love child?"  Pretty sick shit.

[Phoenix Dark]

What do you guys think about the bailout plan, Paulson's idea? From what I understand it basically overpays for shitty assets, and because of this that extra money goes directly to these various firms/their CEOs/etc. They're asking for people and the government to bail them out, then requiring no oversight which makes no sense.


my limited understanding is based on econ lectures this semester as well as articles like this
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/opinion/22krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

And a big to Investopedia

[Mandark]

First Memento, now Paul Krugman.  PD's ruining everything I love.

[Rman]

What do you guys think about the bailout plan, Paulson's idea? From what I understand it basically overpays for shitty assets, and because of this that extra money goes directly to these various firms/their CEOs/etc. They're asking for people and the government to bail them out, then requiring no oversight which makes no sense.


my limited understanding is based on econ lectures this semester as well as articles like this
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/opinion/22krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

And a big to Investopedia

The lack of oversight is extremely troubling.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm coming after your library next

back on topic

In an interview with CNN's Larry King airing tonight, Bill Clinton offered a slightly unusual reason for postponing his campaigning for Obama: The Jewish high holidays of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, which he's not known to observe.

"When [the Clinton Global Initiative] is over, and after the Jewish holidays, which follow close on it, I intend to go to Florida, to Ohio, to northeast Pennsylvania, and to Nevada at a minimum," he said. "I may do events in Arkansas depending on what the Democratic Party does down there. And I've agreed to do some fundraising for them in California and New York."

"Are you kind of feeling Jewish that you're waiting until after the Jewish holidays?" King asked, according to a CNN transcript.

"No. But I think it would be -- if we're trying to win in Florida, it may be that," Clinton began, before discussing his real Florida target: "You know, they think that because of who I am and where my politic[al] base has traditionally been, they may want me to go sort of hustle up what Lawton Chiles used to call the 'cracker vote' there."

"But Senator Obama also has a big stake in doing well in the Jewish community in Florida, where Hillary did very well and where I did very well. And I just think respecting the holidays is a good thing to do," he said.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/
 

[Himu]

What do you guys think about Obama and McCain's energy plans and the bailing out business? I haven't really read this thread because I think politics are boring as fuck, I'd rather get high than read this shit, but I think these things are quite important.

[Bocsius]

Yeah... Bill will go campaign heavily for Obama... later. Uh, later than that. Still later. Oops! It's election day! Oh well, I guess we'll try harder in 2012 (with Hillary).

[Himu]

I dunno, I saw him pushing Obama hard on the daily show.

[Phoenix Dark]

Yeah... Bill will go campaign heavily for Obama... later. Uh, later than that. Still later. Oops! It's election day! Oh well, I guess we'll try harder in 2012 (with Hillary).

The Jewish voting bloc is very important in Florida and it makes perfect sense for Clinton to do this. In fact, Pawlenty is going to be campaigning for McCain in Florida and will be abstaining from campaigning during the holiday as well. Both parties are doing the same thing

[TakingBackSunday]

I dunno, I saw him pushing Obama hard on the daily show.

Eh, I always find he sidesteps full out saying THIS MAN SHOULD BE PRESIDENT

I mean, we all know he's endorsed him and is slightly compaigning...but Hildawg is doing much more.

[Himu]

I dunno, I saw him pushing Obama hard on the daily show.

Eh, I always find he sidesteps full out saying THIS MAN SHOULD BE PRESIDENT

I mean, we all know he's endorsed him and is slightly compaigning...but Hildawg is doing much more.

Yeah. That's true. I really only watch daily show and local news, so what do i know. i don't pay attention to this shit.

When Bill brought up how much Hilary was into supporting Obama my jaw dropped lol I knew she was supporting him, but not that much.

[Brehvolution]

The one question I have about the bail out is this:

Are these companies going to get reimbursed for the principal of the 'toxic asset' or principal plus interest and penalties associated for the asset?
I will not be happy if they are reimbursed for the interest accrued because at this point it was FAKE money!!!!!!!

[TakingBackSunday]

"yeah, JERK" 

[Phoenix Dark]

The Paulson Plan picked up an unusual endorsement last night when Jim Cramer, the bombastic host of CNBC's "Mad Money" and a former Wall Street executive, called for its passage. Cramer's support of the plan is noteworthy because he has been the loudest -- and we mean loudest -- critics of Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson for their handling -- or, in his opinion, the lack thereof -- of the financial crisis.

Last summer, Cramer had his viral 15-minutes when he unleashed a red-faced tirade against the Fed that whipped around the Internet and was met largely with snickering. Today, he looks prescient, having warned that foreclosures were destroying investment bank's balance sheets. "Bernanke's being an academic! It's no time to be an academic!" he shouted.

"He has no idea how bad it is out there! He has no idea! I have talked to the heads of almost every one of these firms in the last 72 hours and he has no idea what it's like out there! None!"

He added, correctly, "These firms are going to go out of business! And they're nuts! They're nuts! They know nothing!...This is a different kind of market and the fed is asleep...We have armageddon!"

For the administration head, he also had a message. "There was a president by the name of Hoover and no one thinks much of him now," said Cramer. "Will somebody come on TV and tell the truth about how bad it is?"

On his show last night, Cramer defended Paulson and Bernanke and noted that it may be the first time he'd ever done so. The conventional wisdom on Capitol Hill is that the point of the bailout is to rid the banks of their toxic assetts so that they can become stable. But that's not the primary purpose, argued Cramer.

Rather, the goal of Paulson's plan is to stem the foreclosures with the purpose of stopping the decline in housing prices. The collapse of the housing market has diminished the value of banks' holdings; reverse that decline and the system works again. Paulson's plan would slow foreclosures, Cramer argued, because the government would be the mortgage holder and could negotiate with the homeowner to help him or her stay in the house. Fewer foreclosures means less housing supply and the eventual bottoming out of the market, which he thinks will come in nine months.

He had kind words for Democratic components of the plan, too, arguing that executives who agree to work with the treasury should agree to work for free in 2009 and that the government should be given an equity stake in companies it bails out.

Cramer also noted that regardless of Paulson's skills at managing the economy, his record as a Wall Street trader is an impressive one. "Paulson knows how to make money," said Cramer, suggesting that Paulson's planned-for $700 billion dive into the market could end up being profitable for the taxpayer. "I'll bank with him."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/

[Human Snorenado]

What do you guys think about Obama and McCain's energy plans and the bailing out business? I haven't really read this thread because I think politics are boring as fuck, I'd rather get high than read this shit, but I think these things are quite important.

McCain's energy policy is basically "drill for oil that we won't see for 10 years, tax cuts for corporations and let's talk some more about global warning."  Obama wants (or wanted to, before this bailout debacle) to invest 150 billion over 10 years into new infrastructure, research and technologies.  He also talks about doing an "Apollo project" for energy and getting us off of fossil fueled electricity within 10 years.  It's not surprising, but I like Obama's ideas on the issues a lot better.

As far as the bailout goes, both of them agree that it has to happen but they both roughly agree that there has to be a lot more oversight of the process than what was originally asked for.  Obama wants more regulation and McCain has, on varying days, said there should be more and less regulation.  I would believe him more if his economic plan wasn't written by your former Texas Senator, Phil "Deregulation Express" Gramm, who arguably got us into this mess in the first place. 

Hope that helped!

[Himu]

Sounds good.

I'm really feelin' Obama.

[Human Snorenado]

Sounds good.

I'm really feelin' Obama.

Of course you are!  He's

spoiler (click to show/hide)

a sensible, intelligent candidate.

[close]

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Lolz I bet you thought I was gonna say HE'S BLACK!

[close]

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He totally is, though.  Black, that is.

[close]

[Phoenix Dark]

What do you guys think about Obama and McCain's energy plans and the bailing out business? I haven't really read this thread because I think politics are boring as fuck, I'd rather get high than read this shit, but I think these things are quite important.

McCain's plan for everything: I dropped off the money exactly as per... look, man, I've got certain information, all right? Certain things have come to light. And, you know, has it ever occurred to you, that, instead of, uh, you know, running around, uh, uh, blaming me, you know, given the nature of all this new shit, you know, I-I-I-I... this could be a-a-a-a lot more, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, complex, I mean, it's not just, it might not be just such a simple... uh, you know?

[Phoenix Dark]

Breaking news on MSNBC

-McCain is suspending his campaign to work on bailout
-Asks for friday debate to be moved back

King of empty gestures and band-aid solutions.

[MrAngryFace]

hahaha

[Himu]

Sounds good.

I'm really feelin' Obama.

Of course you are!  He's

spoiler (click to show/hide)

a sensible, intelligent candidate.

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lolz I bet you thought I was gonna say HE'S BLACK!

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

He totally is, though.  Black, that is.

[close]

It's pretty accurate though. 

[MrAngryFace]

Using the financial crisis McCain is able to continue not having Palin or himself talk to the press and reveal how inept the both really are.

[Brehvolution]

They just may be saving it for the debates.

[Eric P]

Breaking news on MSNBC

-McCain is suspending his campaign to work on bailout
-Asks for friday debate to be moved back

King of empty gestures and band-aid solutions.

"i can't solve this crisis in one day!

i'll need like....two!

push back the debate

[Phoenix Dark]

Using the financial crisis McCain is able to continue not having Palin or himself talk to the press and reveal how inept the both really are.

His de-regulating ass is part of the reason we're in this mess, so what better way to save face than make yourself invulnerable from attacks while working to "fix the problem as an American first, politician second" 

He tried this during the hurricanes earlier this month

[Himu]

[Mr. Gundam]

Using the financial crisis McCain is able to continue not having Palin or himself talk to the press and reveal how inept the both really are.

STALLING!!

 

[MrAngryFace]

oh shits! bridge to nowhere: THE RETURN OF THE BRIDGE TO NOWHERE AKA I NOWHERED YOU DID LAST SUMMER

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/23/biden.earmarks/index.html

[MrAngryFace]

They just may be saving it for the debates.

Whenever they have those?

[Human Snorenado]

Oh McCain.  You so crazy.

[Phoenix Dark]

So...if you're in Obama's war room right now, you've got Obama to your left, Axelrod to your right, and Scarlett Johansson on your lap...what do you do/say?

[MrAngryFace]

WASHINGTON—Amid allegations that his thoughtless and insensitive decisions have damaged his relationship with the nation, President George W. Bush vowed Monday that he would, starting now, "make everything better."

"This time I'm serious," Bush said. "I am ready to make a fresh start if we can just put the past behind us. I promise."

Enlarge Image
Bush swears that this time he's really going to pay attention to all 280 million U.S. citizens, and try to do right by them for once.
An estimated 35 million citizens listened to the president's televised remarks while silently crying behind locked bathroom doors.

Though Bush told all Americans they owed it to him to give him one more chance, he admitted that there was no excuse for his mishandling of national affairs.

"Things have just been so crazy at work lately," he said.

During the 14-minute address Bush acknowledged that he and the country had drifted apart. He accepted some of the blame, but stressed that it was partly the American people's fault, and went on to chide them for not giving him an opportunity to explain, not standing behind him, and failing to understand his "very real" need for unchecked executive authority.

"My job is stressful," Bush said. "Trust me, things will calm down in a few months once I don't have to deal with it anymore."

The president, whose approval ratings have dropped steadily in recent years, said he had no idea how bad things had gotten until he found out that an overwhelming percentage of Americans didn't even bother responding to an opinion poll this month about his recent $3.1 trillion budget proposal.

Bush has since taken steps towards reconciliation with the American people, including promoting a promise to help alleviate the fiscal woes the U.S. has faced in recent months. Bush said he knew that the $300 he intended to give to every citizen "couldn't possibly make up for how [he has] governed," but nevertheless asked the nation to have faith in him.

"I know it's not much, but it's a start, right?" Bush said. "And it hasn't always been bad. Doesn't this remind you of that other $300 rebate I gave you in 2003? You always forget all the times I'm a really great president. We have really had some wonderful moments."

"Cut me some slack here, for Christ's sake," Bush continued. "I'm trying. I really am."

In addition to providing economic relief, Bush said he has taken other measures to strengthen his bond with the nation. According to the president, his newly proposed warrantless-wiretapping bill will greatly broaden the reach of his personal attention to the American people's needs and put him in a position to be more directly involved in their lives.

The president concluded by imploring the nation to help him rectify the situation, stressing that he always has America's best interests at heart but cannot be expected to improve things all by himself.

"You have to realize that everything I do, I do for you," Bush said. "Do you think I like denying health care to underprivileged children, or plunging the country deeper and deeper into debt? Well, I don't, and I hope someday you'll understand that. In the meantime, I'm asking the American people to try to meet me halfway on this."

Despite Bush's seemingly conciliatory stance, public response to Bush's promises has been frosty at best. Cato Institute policy scholar Brian Whitaker echoed the sentiments of many Americans, calling Bush's recent overtures "too little, too late."

"We want to believe that he's finally going to be the president we always wanted, but we've given him so many chances," Whitaker said. "I don't think we can handle another disappointment. Maybe it's time to realize that President Bush will never be the head of state we need him to be."

"Then again, maybe our expectations are unfair," Whitaker added. "He seemed so sincere this time. He wouldn't abuse his executive powers if he didn't care about us, right?"

Whitaker predicted that the nation will likely move forward and try to forget Bush, though it may be difficult for Americans to ever trust a president again. He said the current crop of presidential contenders offers little in the way of an alternative to Bush, but maintained that "at least Barack Obama listens to us."

[ShogunOfFear]

oh shits! bridge to nowhere: THE RETURN OF THE BRIDGE TO NOWHERE AKA I NOWHERED YOU DID LAST SUMMER

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/23/biden.earmarks/index.html

[Mr. Gundam]

Thats an Onion article, right MAF?

Right?

[MrAngryFace]

oh shits! bridge to nowhere: THE RETURN OF THE BRIDGE TO NOWHERE AKA I NOWHERED YOU DID LAST SUMMER

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/23/biden.earmarks/index.html

(Image removed from quote.)

I say we vote for the bridge as president.

distant: haha yeah, hard to tell anymore i know

[Ganhyun]

Thats an Onion article, right MAF?

Right?

It has to be an ONN article, not a CNN article. After all, Obama does no wrong AMIRITE?

[MrAngryFace]

haha so touchy

[Ganhyun]

So...if you're in Obama's war room right now, you've got Obama to your left, Axelrod to your right, and Scarlett Johansson on your lap...what do you do/say?

You fuck Scarlett and ignore the others. Or if your gay, you fuck Obama and ignore the others. Or just have an orgy.

[Ganhyun]

haha so touchy

lol U MAD.

[Phoenix Dark]

[GilloD]

What do you guys think about Obama and McCain's energy plans and the bailing out business? I haven't really read this thread because I think politics are boring as fuck, I'd rather get high than read this shit, but I think these things are quite important.

McCain's plan for everything: I dropped off the money exactly as per... look, man, I've got certain information, all right? Certain things have come to light. And, you know, has it ever occurred to you, that, instead of, uh, you know, running around, uh, uh, blaming me, you know, given the nature of all this new shit, you know, I-I-I-I... this could be a-a-a-a lot more, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, complex, I mean, it's not just, it might not be just such a simple... uh, you know?

I'll tell you what I'm blathering about... I've got information man! New shit has come to light! And shit... man, the economy kidnapped herself. Well sure, man. Look at it... a young trophy economy, in the parlance of our times, you know, and it, uh, uh, owes money all over town, including to known pornographers, and that's cool... that's, that's cool, I'm, I'm saying, it needs money, man. And of course they're going to say that they didn't get it, because... itwants more, man! It's got to feed the monkey, I mean uh... hasn't that ever occurred to you, man? Sir?

[Eric P]

oh shits! bridge to nowhere: THE RETURN OF THE BRIDGE TO NOWHERE AKA I NOWHERED YOU DID LAST SUMMER

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/23/biden.earmarks/index.html

as presented it's inexcusable.  the question is why did they vote against the amendment?

[MrAngryFace]

Well thankfully Obama talks to the press, so maybe we'll find out IF they ask him.

[Phoenix Dark]

*** UPDATE *** NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports that Obama campaign strategist Robert Gibbs said, Obama initiated contact at 8:30 this morning after discussing it on the flight to Tampa yesterday afternoon and again last night. They discussed a joint statement of shared principles on the bailout package -- to help move it along toward consensus on the Hill.

At 2:35 p.m., McCain called back and mentioned whether they should meet at the White House and delay the debate. Asked whether they should delay the debate, Gibbs said that this is a global financial crisis -- and there would be no better way to shed light this crisis than to debate it.  Gibbs says they have not decided whether or not it would be better to postpone the debate -- but want to talk to the sponsors (the debate commission) first.

So Obama calls up McCain and wants to release a joint statement. McCain calls back and agrees...then says he's also going to suspend his campaign and wants Obama to do the same. McCain injected politics into this, not Obama. Suspending the debates may be a good idea, I'd probably agree to move it back a couple days. Suspending your campaign though? Fuck no

[Mandark]

oh shits! bridge to nowhere: THE RETURN OF THE BRIDGE TO NOWHERE AKA I NOWHERED YOU DID LAST SUMMER

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/23/biden.earmarks/index.html

as presented it's inexcusable.  the question is why did they vote against the amendment?

My guess:  Senate attitude towards earmarks is usually on a live and let live basis.  Going after someone else's pork can be the equivalent of triggering a Mexican standoff.

Pissing off Stevens would be especially risky since he would have been either #1 or #2 on the then GOP-controlled Appropriations Committee.  He could seriously impede someone's agenda if he chose too at that point.

The question I'd like to ask is whether that bridge in Louisiana wasn't going to get fixed without the earmark (otherwise the DoT would be allocating the funds and as bad as the Bush admin is I don't see them not paying to fix the bridge if it really was that important and that damaged).

[MrAngryFace]

*** UPDATE *** NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports that Obama campaign strategist Robert Gibbs said, Obama initiated contact at 8:30 this morning after discussing it on the flight to Tampa yesterday afternoon and again last night. They discussed a joint statement of shared principles on the bailout package -- to help move it along toward consensus on the Hill.

At 2:35 p.m., McCain called back and mentioned whether they should meet at the White House and delay the debate. Asked whether they should delay the debate, Gibbs said that this is a global financial crisis -- and there would be no better way to shed light this crisis than to debate it.  Gibbs says they have not decided whether or not it would be better to postpone the debate -- but want to talk to the sponsors (the debate commission) first.

So Obama calls up McCain and wants to release a joint statement. McCain calls back and agrees...then says he's also going to suspend his campaign and wants Obama to do the same. McCain injected politics into this, not Obama. Suspending the debates may be a good idea, I'd probably agree to move it back a couple days. Suspending your campaign though? Fuck no

Yeah McCain camp jumped on the opportunity to make it seem like he's doing it, whether or not thats the case. Obama Camp HAD to have seen this coming and probably dont care all that much.

I think if anything McCains media blackout has put even MORE coverage on Obama and EVERYONE around him leading to more gaffes, which is normally...well normal...but since the McCain camp act like this is communist stfu media land and aren't saying anything, the gaffes on the democrat side are amplified.

So this could work out for Obama's camp as well.

[Phoenix Dark]

ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos and Rick Klein report: Sen. John McCain on Wednesday said he would “suspend” his presidential campaign to come to Washington to help negotiate a financial bailout bill, a dramatic move designed to seize a powerful issue.

However a senior Obama campaign official said Obama "intends to debate."

"The debate is on," a senior Obama campaign official told ABC News.

Obama supporter and chief debate negotiator Rep. Rahm Emanuel, D-Ill., told MSNBC that "we can handle both," when asked about his reaction to McCain's call to postpone the first debate because of the administration's bailout plan.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/mccain-not-comm.html

[MrAngryFace]

boboobobobo McCains 72!

[Mr. Gundam]

If this is how McCain reacts to emergencies when he's just a nominee, how will he handle crises as President?

[Phoenix Dark]

What's changed today in the financial crisis other than John McCain's poll numbers tanking? Isn't this the campaign equivalent of faking an injury when you're down late in the 4th quarter? Note too that McCain was in the midst of debate prep when he made this decision.

[Human Snorenado]

If this is how McCain reacts to emergencies when he's just a nominee, how will he handle crises as President?

True dat.  He's basically thrashed all over the map for a week, acting bipolar and now he wants to beg off from a prior commitment to debate on Friday.  Why should I think he'd act any differently as a President?  Someone should get a bunch of Asian people in black pajamas around him to chant "Di mi mao!" at all of his campaign events, see if it triggers some sort of flashback to his POW days and makes him flip out on stage.

[tiesto]

LOLLLLL, Laura Bush says Palin lacks foreign policy experience:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080924/ap_on_el_pr/palin_laura_bush

[Mr. Gundam]

Hasn't the Pentagon said they won't release his psychiatric evaluation? I'm REALLY curious as to what is in there. I'm sure people have brought up concerns about possible PTSD, but I haven't heard it.

[GilloD]

Smart move: Obama changes the debate topic to "The Economy".

[Phoenix Dark]

Obama press conference/comments in 15min or so

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

The economy is Obama's ace in the hole because it so easy to trace McCain to various legislations that led to the crisis.  Plus McCain admitting he knows nothing about the economy will fuck him over.  Palin has no economic experience either so she has nothing.

Plus the economy is the GOP's second biggest strength (security being #1).  Obama taking that away from McCain is going to give McCain very few options on how to campaign.

[Brehvolution]

Obama press conference/comments in 15min or so

Is it before or after McCain/Palin's?

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lol

[close]

[Beardo]

Mccains not going to win the election.

[Mr. Gundam]

Mccains not going to win the election.

He's totally turning into a crazy old man. It's sad.

[Phoenix Dark]

Can't hear it (no headphones today) but fuck, McCain either killed his campaign today or made another surprise tactic that might work. Don't think it will

This might be over unless Bush pulls Osama out of the bag