International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster

[Am_I_Anonymous]

I can't help but this ISIL is having a field day watching the most advanced nations on our planet bumblefuck shit up on the regular.


Edit: And people need to stop with the whole "Russia always violates international airspace" because so does the USA, CHINA, all of Europe, and any other nation that has an air force. I mean christ.

[Madrun Badrun]

Part of that narrative is that westerns don't want Russia to be seen as an equal again.  We wouldn't let Egypt or Iran violate airspace and so trying to treat Russia similar to those than to ourselves or China, shows the position we are trying to take with them.  Sure we are in a position were we can violate airspace (and sovereignty) but we want Russia to think twice before they try. 

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Part of that narrative is that westerns don't want Russia to be seen as an equal again.  We wouldn't let Egypt or Iran violate airspace and so trying to treat Russia similar to those than to ourselves or China, shows the position we are trying to take with them.  Sure we are in a position were we can violate airspace (and sovereignty) but we want Russia to think twice before they try.

What scares me is the things nobody is talking about.

1) European Sanctions hit russia recently, coupled with oil prices falling this means Russia economy is doing very poorly.
2) Putin is backing the opposite side of the Syrian conflict as the Turkish president.
3) If these pilots are dead Russia will not be satisfied with an "I'm sorry"
4) America hasn't said a damn thing yet, to my knowledge.
5) I'm unsure what Putin actually thinks of NATO as they didn't do anything at all during what clearly was a land grab for oceanfront property Russia employed in the Ukraine.

these are the things that I think about.


Also it's funny to see my facebook full of selfies, recipes, and bitching about partners posts during an event that puts us closer to war than anybody on their has ever seen. 

[VomKriege]

The reputation goes back to the Soviet Union, so I'd say the narrative is even simpler than that : Soviets / Russians are agressive. They will surely be the one to pull the trigger on WW3. We are a purely defensive alliance.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

The reputation goes back to the Soviet Union, so I'd say the narrative is even simpler than that : Soviets / Russians are agressive. They will surely be the one to pull the trigger on WW3.

Do you know WHY they were aggressive then? Because they were broke.

They are broke now.

[VomKriege]

The reputation goes back to the Soviet Union, so I'd say the narrative is even simpler than that : Soviets / Russians are agressive. They will surely be the one to pull the trigger on WW3.

Do you know WHY they were aggressive then? Because they were broke.

They are broke now.

Please note I was merely phrasing a narrative, not my actual opinion. Soviets of course felt the same way and were mostly concerned about defending themselves. On the matter of airspace intrusion, it is hard to argue that the US was much more agressive than the Soviets ever could.

Stalin had a rather liberal conception of what constituted a defensive buffer to be sure.

EDIT : I agree that Russia is now once more a worry for Europe.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

The reputation goes back to the Soviet Union, so I'd say the narrative is even simpler than that : Soviets / Russians are agressive. They will surely be the one to pull the trigger on WW3.

Do you know WHY they were aggressive then? Because they were broke.

They are broke now.

Please note I was merely phrasing a narrative, not my actual opinion. Soviets of course felt the same way and was mostly concerned about defending itself.

Stalin had a rather liberal conception of what constituted a defensive buffer to be sure.

EDIT : I agree that Russia is now once more a worry for Europe.

Technically if Hitler would have given them Poland, the Soviet Union would have probably stayed out of it. They wanted the territory. Hitler's major fuckup was bringing them into the war. But I digress, this isn't the place for this conversation

[VomKriege]

My remarks were more obviously adressing their Cold War policy and a possible war with NATO.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

 

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Welp



Somebody is lying

[Broseidon]

sweet 90-degree turn

[VomKriege]

After being defeated a few weeks ago, the law for cigarettes neutral packaging was finally passed tonight by 2 votes in France.

[Samson Manhug]

No more fumer tue?

[VomKriege]

No more fumer tue?

No, cigarette packs (and a certain number of tobacco products) will be sold in generic, plain packaging with no elements of the tobacco company branding (logos, fonts, graphics...). It has been adopted in Australia. The big ass warning signs stay.
I'm a big smoker but it's always nice to see political power standing for public health and giving the finger to big business.

[Madrun Badrun]

[Am_I_Anonymous]

To be fair Russia is backing a full blow mass murderer pretty much right out in the open.

This shit smells like Vietnam part II....just with more Russian and less Chinese support so far.

France goes in hard
United States back France
Russia backs Syria and loyal rebel forces
United States supports forces trying to depose a dictator
What? No really it's about ISIL....sure...

Next to happen
US puts forces in Turkey
Turkey Runs its mouth because it still thinks it's the Ottoman Empire
Russia slaps turkey
Here we go

[Samson Manhug]

There is already an airbase in Turkey and fighters and A-10s were already forward deployed there for anti-IS operations last summer. Now that Russia is deploying air defense artillery to the Northwest corner of Syria things could get interesting.

Edit: Also the US is not backing France, France is backing the US:



VomKriege mentioned this before, but France just doesn't have the military capacity to "go hard" (at least from an American perspective) in 2015.

[VomKriege]

To be fair Russia is backing a full blow mass murderer pretty much right out in the open.

This shit smells like Vietnam part II....just with more Russian and less Chinese support so far.

France goes in hard
United States back France
Russia backs Syria and loyal rebel forces
United States supports forces trying to depose a dictator
What? No really it's about ISIL....sure...

Next to happen
US puts forces in Turkey
Turkey Runs its mouth because it still thinks it's the Ottoman Empire
Russia slaps turkey
Here we go

I'd hedge my bets on :

Lots of bombing.
IS pushed back into clandestinity, still a problem for 20 years.
Syria and Iraq a total basket case.
Another djihadist group raising to prominence to steal IS thunder in a few years.
Rinse. Repeat.

[Samson Manhug]

French spellings of Arabic words really mess with me:

bordj

djoundi/djounoud

mintaka

marabout

bachaga (I think this is Turkish actually)

[Samson Manhug]

Some insight into David Cameron's 70,000 number from yesterday. Bolded part is a little scary IMO:

"As diplomatic efforts for Syria gain pace [...] the definition of “moderate” has been shifting. The most effective definition now must be based upon a combined assessment of (a) what groups are acknowledged as being opposed to ISIL and (b) what groups our governments want, or need to be involved in a political process."

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/yes-there-are-70000-moderate-opposition-fighters-in-syria-heres-what-we-know-about-them/

[Broseidon]

Do any of those groupings include Liwa Thuwwar al-Raqqa or any of the other smaller FSA groups working as part of Euphrates Volcano/SAC/SDF/whatever the fuck? They've probably got a few thousand fighters and I heard they've been undergoing expansion recently to bulk up the Arab contingent of the YPG/FSA alliance.

[Samson Manhug]

Yeah, Liwa Thuwar al-Raqqa is almost surely included as a faction of the Northern Free Syrian Army:



I assume you can read that but in case I have you confused with someone else it says FSA on the top and Liwa Thuwar al-Raqqa on the bottom. But where have you heard thousands? I didn't think they are quite that large. Here's a fairly recent interview quoting only 30 martyrs from Kobani, Tel Abyad, and Ain Issa combined which seems a little low for a brigade-sized element in those battles:

http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/liwa-thuwar-al-raqqa-history-analysis-interview/

[Broseidon]

For the couple of thousands figure I was speaking more of all the small Arab groups operating East of Jarablus, not just them explicitly. Sorry for not being clear. I don't really have a source, I was more going off videos and such over the last month or two of new recruits being sworn in etc.

[Samson Manhug]

Are the recruits just young people coming of age or something else? My understanding was that these small "moderate" militias are essentially tribal. They don't have an ideology to sell like the Salafists and thus recruitment is limited.

[Broseidon]

I don't really know, but it does look like there's some younger guys in there



https://twitter.com/arabthomness/status/668177577274531840

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people involved are from FSA-aligned outfits that were driven underground after the ISIS takeover and have now been able to re-establish themselves in the safety of Rojava. There's also probably quite a few Arabs in areas now under YPG/SDF control who simply want to fight back against ISIS.

Whatever the numbers, it seems Sunni Arabs those areas are sincerely trying to establish capable fighting groups.

[Madrun Badrun]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43556.htm#.Vlkoeq4xXfc.facebook

also this was interesting

https://i.imgur.com/P1Fh5Gj.png

[VomKriege]

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/nov/29/peaceful-paris-climate-gathering-descends-into-clashes-with-police

The votive candles that have piled up on the monument in the centre of Place de la Republiqué since the terror attacks were also hurled at police. Afterwards the street was littered with broken glass, candles and flowers.

Anarchists   

[brob]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1aa6c886-91d1-11e5-bd82-c1fb87bef7af.html#axzz3ssri6UVh

There are signs that government cuts are damaging business confidence. The private sector, dependent on government spending, is reeling from the sharp retrenchment. “The business community feels there are too many sudden changes in regulations and where we’re going. We need stability in the way we move forward,” says Lama al-Sulaiman, vice-president of the chamber of commerce in Jeddah.

Private sector growth, which has this year fallen to 2.9 per cent from 5 per cent last year, is crucial for creating employment for the hundreds of thousands of Saudis who enter the job market every year, especially given the limits on expansion in the public sector.

The ruling family, backed by the clerical establishment, have for decades provided jobs and a cheap cost of living for their subjects in return for loyalty to the tribally based, authoritarian system of governance. At the height of the unrest that swept the Arab world, the government showered the population with salary increases and new social spending while cracking down on dissent. Five years on, moves to change the social contract threaten to upend that delicate balance of power as regional threats abound.

Human rights groups say the government continues to use the judicial system to stifle dissent by jailing Shia and pro-democracy activists for anti-government activity, as well as religious crimes such as apostasy or insulting Islam. The number of executions this year has risen to the highest level in two decades, prompting increasing scrutiny of the tough judicial system that mirrors some of the punishments meted out by Isis in the areas it controls in Syria.

[CatsCatsCats]

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/nov/29/peaceful-paris-climate-gathering-descends-into-clashes-with-police

The votive candles that have piled up on the monument in the centre of Place de la Republiqué since the terror attacks were also hurled at police. Afterwards the street was littered with broken glass, candles and flowers.

Anarchists   

I heard on democracy now this morning that's there's footage of the police being the ones trampling the candles and flowers 

Pretty convenient to be in a state of emergency banning all protests during the climate talk

[Madrun Badrun]

https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/3uugeh/russian_tv_claims_assad_granting_federalism_for/

that would be a big thing both in terms of the war and international relations if true.

[benjipwns]

Yeah, but Kiselyov...

Yeah, but:

Upon further research, it seems like Kiselev is actually right. Here's ekurd.net reporting about Assad promising to negotiate the autonomy. You can find the same quote repeated in multiple other sources.

“The Syrian leadership is ready to negotiate over the project for self-management,” National Reconciliation Minister Ali Haydar told Kurdish Rudaw news agency Sunday.

Assad also talked about negotating the autonomy in the interview to ria.ru back in September.

And yet, Rudaw didn't relay the news. This is strange. Because it's big and it should be a headline on their site http://rudaw.net/english. So weird a source not publishing its own news

[Samson Manhug]

Seems half true at best and it's not really that big of a thing since Assad would be negotiating over land he doesn't control and isn't fighting for.

[benjipwns]

Assad would be negotiating over land he doesn't control and isn't fighting for.

The best kind of offering!

[Samson Manhug]

I guess if Kerry can do it so can Assad. 

[VomKriege]

I heard on democracy now this morning that's there's footage of the police being the ones trampling the candles and flowers 

Pretty convenient to be in a state of emergency banning all protests during the climate talk

The trampling is possible (on video actually) but the immediate reporting mentioned candles and other stuff from memorial and demonstrations being thrown at police as shown here (starting at 1m30):



When you're coming with black masks and leather gloves, you're there to stir shit. No ifs about it, we see the same morons at all those summits. I don't think the emergency measures and their abuses (very worthy of discussion) gives them any more legitimacy.

[Samson Manhug]

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/paris-is-a-snapshot-of-our-hot-violent-militarized-future

Yesterday, protesters clashed with police, after France banned public demonstrations and 24 activists were preemptively placed under house arrest.

“Twenty-four environmental activists have been placed under house arrest ahead of the Paris climate summit, using France’s state of emergency laws,” France 24 reports. The TV station interviewed two of the arrestees, who told their stories:

“They entered the apartment with shotguns and assault rifles. It was quite violent. They pinned us to the ground,” said Amélie, a young barmaid who did not wish to give her full name. “It lasted quite a long time. We had no idea why they were there.”

The officers handed Amélie a restraining order informing her that she can no longer leave Rennes, is required to register three times a day at the local police station, and must stay at home between 8 PM and 6 AM.

It’s understandable that French authorities would be intensely worried about another attack, its vulnerabilities so recently laid bare, and with the city populated by the world’s chief governors. But instating and executing a law to curtail public demonstration—laws some critics are calling “precrime” laws—looks a lot like a slippery slope.

"I think what the government is really clamping down on ... [people who are] daring to oppose the government," Muriel Ruef, a lawyer representing one of the arrestees, told Al Jazeera. "It's the first time in a very long time I've seen anything like this."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/30/world/europe/france-uses-sweeping-powers-to-curb-climate-protests-but-clashes-erupt.html

Juliette Rousseau, the head of Coalition Climat 21, an umbrella group for environmental activists, said the authorities had searched homes and seized computers and other equipment belonging to activists who have no connection to terrorism.

“There’s clearly an environment to keep activists out,” she said. “The state of emergency is clearly targeting activist movements. This is not justified. These people under house arrest, they don’t have any kind of criminal record.”

Mr. Domenjoud said he had put in a request to demonstrate on Wednesday in advance of the climate conference, even though he knew that public marches had been banned. On Thursday, he said, police told him he was under house arrest because of his “leadership role” among activists.

“Thursday my neighbor called to say the whole building was filled with police,” he said. “Then the police called to say I should go to the police station, immediately.”

“It seems totally scandalous,” Mr. Domenjoud said. “I am being subjected to this without having been judged. To me, this is a very serious misapplication of the state of emergency.”

Liberté, égalité, fraternité

Terrorist attack two weeks ago, let's go kick some doors of environmentalists and ban public demonstrations. Interesting how a remnant of de Gaullean lite dictatorship from the Algerian war of the 1950s finds itself useful in 2015 battling environmentalists.

[VomKriege]

House arrests of political activists and administrative seizings will have to be relaxed before too long, it's already stirring people and the shock from the attack has been dulled. We have a fairly statist culture over here so people will not mind the use of that with regards to immediate threats (or to unlawful firearms detention and trafficking / drug dealing), but it will bite the governement in the ass if they use it for unrelated reasons. Keep in mind that Hollande will have to face the elections in less than 2 years and he is semi-expected to lose. Abusing emergency measures will not do him any favors, his popularity bumped in the wake of the attacks but he's still way under 50% in the approval polls.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

So ISIS killed a Russian "spy" and taunted Putin.

How stupid are these guys?

[Samson Manhug]

Not that stupid—IS appears strong when they antagonize great powers. Being bombed shores up support, creates more dependence from the population they control, and aids in jihadi recruitment. If IS can draw Russia into another Afghanistan-style graveyard of empires they earn their place in history. Next question.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Not that stupid—IS appears strong when they antagonize great powers. Being bombed shores up support, creates more dependence from the population they control, and aids in jihadi recruitment. If IS can draw Russia into another Afghanistan-style graveyard of empires they earn their place in history. Next question.

How does this even compare remotely to Afghanistan?

[brawndolicious]

Since they don't care about protecting a homeland, it's pretty different in that their idea of a winning is much...I want to say easier. It doesn't seem like they have any real goals beyond sustaining an insurgency in the region and fighting for the sake of creating chaos, which is probably the reason they don't feel the need to be backed by an ally that can give them antivehicle weapons. Plus a lot of them don't care about dying as shown by the suicide attacks. I think Russia/France/etc know this type of group is nearly impossible to permanently eradicate as they just appeal to those who want a new caliphate.

[Samson Manhug]

Not that stupid—IS appears strong when they antagonize great powers. Being bombed shores up support, creates more dependence from the population they control, and aids in jihadi recruitment. If IS can draw Russia into another Afghanistan-style graveyard of empires they earn their place in history. Next question.

How does this even compare remotely to Afghanistan?

The parallels are many: A Russian client state in the midst of a civil war, Russia increases troop presence to support the government they want in power, a country overrun with powerful foreign-backed fighters (most of whom are jihadists.) This only ends badly for Russia if they go all in.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Not that stupid—IS appears strong when they antagonize great powers. Being bombed shores up support, creates more dependence from the population they control, and aids in jihadi recruitment. If IS can draw Russia into another Afghanistan-style graveyard of empires they earn their place in history. Next question.

How does this even compare remotely to Afghanistan?

The parallels are many: A Russian client state in the midst of a civil war, Russia increases troop presence to support the government they want in power, a country overrun with powerful foreign-backed fighters (most of whom are jihadists.) This only ends badly for Russia if they go all in.

Lol no.

[Boogie]

Not that stupid—IS appears strong when they antagonize great powers. Being bombed shores up support, creates more dependence from the population they control, and aids in jihadi recruitment. If IS can draw Russia into another Afghanistan-style graveyard of empires they earn their place in history. Next question.

How does this even compare remotely to Afghanistan?

The parallels are many: A Russian client state in the midst of a civil war, Russia increases troop presence to support the government they want in power, a country overrun with powerful foreign-backed fighters (most of whom are jihadists.) This only ends badly for Russia if they go all in.

Lol no.

Yeah, your "loud drunk uncle" foreign affairs analysis is much more insightful.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Not that stupid—IS appears strong when they antagonize great powers. Being bombed shores up support, creates more dependence from the population they control, and aids in jihadi recruitment. If IS can draw Russia into another Afghanistan-style graveyard of empires they earn their place in history. Next question.

How does this even compare remotely to Afghanistan?

The parallels are many: A Russian client state in the midst of a civil war, Russia increases troop presence to support the government they want in power, a country overrun with powerful foreign-backed fighters (most of whom are jihadists.) This only ends badly for Russia if they go all in.

Lol no.

Yeah, your "loud drunk uncle" foreign affairs analysis is much more insightful.

Never claimed to be an expert but let's get one thing straight, neither are you hamfisted solo for life leftist shitards.

[Boogie]

Not that stupid—IS appears strong when they antagonize great powers. Being bombed shores up support, creates more dependence from the population they control, and aids in jihadi recruitment. If IS can draw Russia into another Afghanistan-style graveyard of empires they earn their place in history. Next question.

How does this even compare remotely to Afghanistan?

The parallels are many: A Russian client state in the midst of a civil war, Russia increases troop presence to support the government they want in power, a country overrun with powerful foreign-backed fighters (most of whom are jihadists.) This only ends badly for Russia if they go all in.

Lol no.

Yeah, your "loud drunk uncle" foreign affairs analysis is much more insightful.

Never claimed to be an expert but let's get one thing straight, neither are you hamfisted solo for life leftist shitards.

Lol

Not to get all credentialist here, but Manhug is practically an expert, since he has a degree in international studies, and focuses on insurgencies, and is a veteran with multiple tours in theatre. 

Me? I'm out of date academically, but I do have a degree in history and poli sci, with a focus on international relations and Russian history and foreign policy.

But yeah, keep pretending you're the one with the knowledge on this subject.

You really need to stop pretending that you're posting on a forum of 15-year olds.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Not that stupid—IS appears strong when they antagonize great powers. Being bombed shores up support, creates more dependence from the population they control, and aids in jihadi recruitment. If IS can draw Russia into another Afghanistan-style graveyard of empires they earn their place in history. Next question.

How does this even compare remotely to Afghanistan?

The parallels are many: A Russian client state in the midst of a civil war, Russia increases troop presence to support the government they want in power, a country overrun with powerful foreign-backed fighters (most of whom are jihadists.) This only ends badly for Russia if they go all in.

Lol no.

Yeah, your "loud drunk uncle" foreign affairs analysis is much more insightful.

Never claimed to be an expert but let's get one thing straight, neither are you hamfisted solo for life leftist shitards.

Lol

Not to get all credentialist here, but Manhug is practically an expert, since he has a degree in international studies, and focuses on insurgencies, and is a veteran with multiple tours in theatre. 

Me? I'm out of date academically, but I do have a degree in history and poli sci, with a focus on international relations and Russian history and foreign policy.

But yeah, keep pretending you're the one with the knowledge on this subject.

You really need to stop pretending that you're posting on a forum of 15-year olds.

Oh yeah? Spend a lot of the time on the ground around insurgents do you? Oh wait, that "idiot uncle" of mine did. No offense here but I'll take the word of the guy who walks through the puddle, not the one from a guy who read it was wet. Awesome to disrespect solders though, very classy look...so new age  liberal of you.

And no offense but busting out a Poly Sci degree is the functional equivalent of a marketing degree. Everybody has one and nobody works in the field.


And to finish comparing ISIS to Afghanistan is pretty ridiculous. Consider that there weren't a plethora of nations over there and it pretty much as an excuse to test US technology versus the Russians without inciting the world.

[Mandark]

Boogie ain't a liberal and Samson served overseas.  Also I'm pretty sure Boogie was calling you the drunk uncle in this scenario.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Boogie ain't a liberal and Samson served overseas.  Also I'm pretty sure Boogie was calling you the drunk uncle in this scenario.

Ah it that case, noted and accept 

[benjipwns]

Oh yeah? Spend a lot of the time on the ground around insurgents do you? Oh wait, that "idiot uncle" of mine did.

Your uncle hung out with insurgents?

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Oh yeah? Spend a lot of the time on the ground around insurgents do you? Oh wait, that "idiot uncle" of mine did.

Your uncle hung out with insurgents?

Actually during the first Iraqi war apparently most of them (Not sure we called them insurgents back then, I think we went with friendly militia or whatever buzz word was prevalent in the 90's) were trying to hop of the US bandwagon. So we of course trained them and then they used it against us when we left them in the lurch, same thing we did in Afghanistan.

And then we learned our lesson.....just kidding.....we did the same thing with W's war too.

[Boogie]

Yeah, that totally sounds like something that happened.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Yeah, that totally sounds like something that happened.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/18/the-terrorists-fighting-us-now-we-just-finished-training-them/

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/03/blowback.html

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/313792-turkey-islamic-state-syria/

[Mandark]

Who was the US training during the first Gulf War, though?  Don't remember using proxy forces for that.

[Boogie]

Who was the US training during the first Gulf War, though?  Don't remember using proxy forces for that.

I mean, it's been obvious for a while that his reading comprehension of others is lacking, but I didn't realize it extended to shit he writes himself, too.

[Mandark]

There were the uprisings in '91, from Shiites in the south and Kurds in the north, which IIRC the first Bush administration encouraged through radio broadcasts, etc.  Saddam's forces stomped it out, and I think the no fly zone was a pretty direct result of this (to keep his forces from pursuing the Kurds).

But that's not really a case of blowback, since the groups involved were Kurdish forces and groups like SCIRI.  Those groups weren't sources of the insurgency after the second Iraqi War.

[Samson Manhug]

Sorry for being a ham-handed foreveralone, Am_I_Anonymous, but there were a "plethora of nations over there" during the Soviet-Afghan War. The US, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the UK, and even China worked directly through Pakistan's ISI to support the jihadists. The two conflicts aren't perfect facsimiles, but I think Russia is wary of making the same mistakes again.

The Russian foreign minister even went so far as to suggest that the US take an increased role in Northern Syria with the Kurds to close the entire Turkish border.

[Boogie]

There were the uprisings in '91, from Shiites in the south and Kurds in the north, which IIRC the first Bush administration encouraged through radio broadcasts, etc.  Saddam's forces stomped it out, and I think the no fly zone was a pretty direct result of this (to keep his forces from pursuing the Kurds).

But that's not really a case of blowback, since the groups involved were Kurdish forces and groups like SCIRI.  Those groups weren't sources of the insurgency after the second Iraqi War.

Yeah, that was my only thought as well, but as you say those groups didn't "come back against us".

But other than "encourage" that Shiite uprising, did the US even fund or train any fighters involved in it?

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Who was the US training during the first Gulf War, though?  Don't remember using proxy forces for that.

I mean, it's been obvious for a while that his reading comprehension of others is lacking, but I didn't realize it extended to shit he writes himself, too.

I mean i'm not going to do it for you. Perhaps you should go read about Saudi Arabia and the Gulf war a little bit. Just saying you sound pretty bad here. I am aware you get a boner trying to fuck with me but jesus man, at least ground it in some type of reality

And you'll counter with "I wasn't aware Saudi Arabia was involved in ISIS" and then I'll laugh and we can move onto talking about PD and dicks or whatever.

[Mandark]

I mean i'm not going to do it for you. Perhaps you should go read about Saudi Arabia and the Gulf war a little bit. Just saying you sound pretty bad here. I am aware you get a boner trying to fuck with me but jesus man, at least ground it in some type of reality