The NBA thread

[Stoney Mason]

I think Danny Ainge may have lost the team with the Perkins trade. Plus, they are missing Shaq, J O'Neal, Marquis Daniels, Troy Murphy, Rondo is in and out, so is Delonte West and Big Baby...I don't know if they have time to get used to the new line-up(s) before the playoffs start. It's tough - whoever gets the #1 seed in the East is gonna be playing a 30-35 win team. Whoever gets the 3rd could be playing Melo and Amare or the surprising Sixers. Tough time to fade.

Mandark - I wrote up a fairly long reply to Smooth Groove here -
http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=34032.msg1294573#msg1294573

I was razzing my brother about the Celtics yesterday since he is a Celtics fan. It is a bit funny to me that the Celtics seem to be pinning their hopes on a wait for Jermaine O'Neal and Shaq to get back argument. If you told Celtics fans at the beginning of the season, that was going to be the case, I think their heads would have exploded.

[Cormacaroni]

there were basically 2 issues Ainge felt he had to address -

- Marquis Daniels was lost for the season, leaving Pierce with no back-up
(little-known fact - Daniels is a weirdly accomplished post player, in the mould of Gary Payton. You'd never guess to look at him, but it's true)

- Perkins was going to command a healthy new contract next season that the Celtics probably couldn't afford without letting others go.

Were either of those a bigger threat to winning a title in 2011 than what they did? I really don't think so. Even betting on Shaq to return (which gives them the best statistical line-up in the NBA this whole season, btw...), Shaq still needs serious back-up. Krstic can maybe do that but Howard, Gasol etc would eat him alive.

If you also factor in that Perkins was almost as important to the defense as KG, and probably more important in terms of screens for Allen and Pierce, and offensive rebounding...and that he was beloved by the whole team (Rondo's best friend, and apparently ONLY friend on the roster...), as well as by the fans...and the fact that Green still doesn't have an identity after what, 4 seasons...ugh. Why did he do it. It may yet pan out but there are some pretty big 'ifs'. I'd have taken Perkins as center with this bunch for one last run. They were good enough to make the Finals and had a decent shot at winning it. Now...i'd say they are behind the Lakers, Heat, Bulls, Spurs, and Mavs, with the way they are playing. It's like the wind got knocked out of the whole team.

[Stoney Mason]

Spurs lost again. They might lose their #1 seeding in the conference to the Lakers if they continue at this pace.

[Cormacaroni]

dammit i was gonna watch that game later but could not resist the siren song of this thread

[Stoney Mason]

sorry

[Stoney Mason]

[youtube=560,345]#at=36[/youtube]
[youtube=560,345]#at=43[/youtube]

[Cormacaroni]

dude needs to get a cup of coffee in the NBA so we can vote him into the Slam Dunk contest

[Stoney Mason]

Spurs lost again tonight. Everything is coming together to guarantee another Lakers title.

[Cormacaroni]

I watched the last couple of Lakers games. They look really fucking good, dammit. Pin-sharp execution and dominant in the paint. Oh well, they won't have an easy ride in the playoffs, that I guarantee.

[OptimoPeach]

Can I be a Lakers fan now since the Kings are ditching us? Seems only fair

[etiolate]

Sure, you'll be a FILTHY TRAITOR, but sure go for it.

[OptimoPeach]

Nah I'd be afraid of someone burning my house down or something.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I will, however, be a closeted Kobe fan forever, even if he is anti-clutch and a poor man's Jordan

[close]

How does this work among REAL SPORTS FANS when a team moves away, though? It seems too opportune to have free pickings of a new team when the team that's moving away has been less than .500 for half a decade. Then again, I stuck with the Raiders through that terrible chokefest against the Bucs and fuggin JaMarcus, so maybe this is like cross-sports karma or something

[etiolate]

I'm just dropping the NBA. Some fans follow a team to the next city, but the Maloofs have been Rachel Phelpsing us for too long to root for them and fuck it, its socal. Fuck Socal. I could follow the Warriors but that doesn't feel right either. I've always sorta rooted for small market teams like the Blazers and Spurs. The problem is that the NBA is trash and without a local team, I can't trick myself into supporting a league thats become such an embarrassment. 

[etiolate]

How has it been one of the best seasons?

[Mandark]

We're not embittered Kings fans?

[etiolate]

I was tired of the league before the move.

[etiolate]

You have a lockout coming.
You have teams moving and things getting like the NHL where there's no team identity.
You have players breaking tampering rules to team up for superteams.
You have major problems with the officials and no sign of anything being done about it.
You have one of the weakest drafts that I can remember coming up.
The season is extremely typical: A handful of good teams while all signs point to the same old franchises being in the finals.
Stern's megalomania has started to leak out publicly and the thought of his continued control of the league is very depressing.

What is there to be excited about?

[Mandark]

I was tired of the league before the move.

Oh, I know.

[etiolate]

pathetic

[Mandark]

 

Dude, this isn't an angry game of escalating countertrolls, GS-Ichi style.  This is a friendly ragging cause you're projecting the experience of a Kings fan (robbed by the worst officiated game in league history, broken up, two current building blocks are head cases, owners with a foot out the door) as the objective state of the league.

There are a bunch of first-ballot HoF players at or near their peaks, some dynamic up-and-comers, more good teams than yer average NBA season, and the promise of a lot of high-level, competitive basketball once we hit the second round of the playoffs.  The product on the court is as entertaining as I can remember, and as much as the labor situation sucks I don't care very much and it's got nothing to do with the games being played.

Nobody's forcing you to enjoy it, but it feels a little silly to act like there's been some drastic change for the worse over the last decade or two.

[etiolate]

Over the last decade or two? Yes, there's been a change for the worse. Stern modeled his league around Michael Jordan as a black Mickey Mouse. That worked financially until Jordan left. He kept up that model and it doesn't work without MJ. Not even Lebron can save that model because he villified himself over the summer. I had bad vibes with the league back during the Bulls run. This isn't a Kings fan thing, the team was irrelevant back then. I just saw something was amiss. It has continued on and now most people see the league as being borderline WWE. I don't see how that can be good. Now there's brand identity with teams moving and the officiating being bonk is a weird accepted reality.

Of course, casual fans aren't bothered by this. I don't see how there's more quality teams and play this year. I don't see that at all. The past had the Kings yes, better Mavs teams, better Spurs teams, better Suns teams, a stacked Blazers squad, and a brief run for the Twolves with Cassell and Spree to go with KG. The issue it was lopsided all to the West, with eastern teams being mostly one star making it for the entire team.

Guys like Wade and Lebron are in their prime, but their brand of basketball isn't exactly enjoyable. The way the league has grown into guys charging through people in the lane isn't exactly beautiful basketball. If you look at the top 5 in charges this year in the NBA, you will see a lot of the "stars". That is what the league has grown towards to accommodate the lack of shooting and the changes in rules. Bowling ball basketball. Even Super-Heat has been underwhelming because they are as ugly in the halfcourt as the Cavs were. How such a multi-talented guy like Lebron can't function in a NBA level offense is disturbing. I wonder if its because he can't do it, if the coaches he's had blow or if the coaches figure its a better strategy to just manipulate the refs into free-throws. I know OKC feels this way and maybe you like FT parades, but I don't. I don't know anyone who really does. Watching Kevin Martin for years made me ashamed.

Face it, I bring legit points (as usual).

[Mandark]

Has shooting actually deteriorated?  Has the leaguewide FT/FGA ratio shot up?  Were there as many teams with similar margins of victory as this year?  Was Minny good the same time as the Blazers?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Okay, I checked the answers at the back of the textbook on that last one.  During the Wolves one good year Portland was a .500 team.

[close]

[pilonv1]

As a lifelong Warriors fan I'm excited about this season. But I can see where etiolate is coming from, I find the Wade/Lebron style of play uninspired and shameful. Even if he is looking back with rose coloured glasses

How such a multi-talented guy like Lebron can't function in a NBA level offense is disturbing. I wonder if its because he can't do it, if the coaches he's had blow or if the coaches figure its a better strategy to just manipulate the refs into free-throws.

It's cause he's never had a real coach who's challenged him to get better. They all pander to him or coach to his "strengths" because no one will go against him. At least Wade had Riley for a short period of time.

[OptimoPeach]

Dayum I was mostly just bullshitting in this thread I've always been a super casual NBA fan, and I'm honestly too young to remember much of the league pre-2k, so I can't say a whole lot except that I'll agree games devolving into free throw contests with like half of the 4th to go does disrupt a lot of the excitement for me. The playoffs still seem to produce some pretty great series, though

All I know is I'm going to be starved for sports if the NFL lockout goes through

[Bacchus7]

There are a bunch of first-ballot HoF players at or near their peaks, some dynamic up-and-comers, more good teams than yer average NBA season, and the promise of a lot of high-level, competitive basketball once we hit the second round of the playoffs.  The product on the court is as entertaining as I can remember, and as much as the labor situation sucks I don't care very much and it's got nothing to do with the games being played.

Speak for the East.

[Stoney Mason]

Nuggests beat the Lakers today and they are 15-4 since the Carmelo trade.

[etiolate]

I'd root for the Nuggets since they're entertaining to watch but they'll get screwed in the playoffs.

[Stoney Mason]

Despite their run they are stuck in the 4th or 5th slot which means they have to play a tough Thunder team anyway which limits their chances.

[Stoney Mason]

Looks like the Lakers have stumbled a bit at the finish line and won't get the top seed out West.

Boston and Miami might have a really important match-up on Sunday to determine which one gets the 2nd seed. Bulls kicked the crap out of the Celtics last night.

[Cormacaroni]

Rondo got absolutely smoked by Rose, aargh. I mean, no-one can stay in front of Rose, but he was just sonning the Celtics. You can't even put him on his ass 'cause he just dances around you. He has air control like in the original Quake. Gonna be a dogfight of a series for sure, and I have to say I'm a little bit concerned now, which I wasn't early in the season. If Shaq can give them a good 20 mins a night, I'd still give the Celtics the edge over the Bulls or the Heat but that seems like a real stretch, doesn't it? 

[Stoney Mason]

Between the Bulls and the Celtics I've kinda jumped to the Bulls bandwagon. I just don't like the Celtics relying on people like Shaq and
Jermaine. Although playoff experience and toughness does count for something.

The heat will still have to prove me wrong. They have improved recently but I still don't trust them when it counts.

But the Celtics/Heat versus the Knicks will be an entertaining first round match-up even if both of those teams should handle the knicks.

[Stoney Mason]

Also no one is talking about it but Dwayne Wade quietly put together a great season after a slow start.

He's shooting 50% which is the best of his career. His rebounds were a career high. His assists numbers were down but that's because the offense goes through Lebron. And his scoring remained pretty consistent only down a bit from last season (26.6  to 25.7)

[Cormacaroni]

Well, Wade is age-wise at his absolute prime right now. I expected an amazing season from him. His spin-dunk on Perkins is in contention for my play of the year, along with that long lob to LeBron. Griffin over Mozgov still wins though. It really has been a toss-up between him and LeBron this season for MVP of that team, and neither would be a bad choice for league MVP. There are plenty of MVP candidates - Rose, Dirk, Howard, LeBron, Wade - who have basically all been fantastic. Rose is the only real surprise out of that bunch, and the difference in wins will nail it for him. But I wouldn't pick him first in a high stakes pick-up game vs those other guys. LeBron is still #1.

[Mandark]

Rose's team had low expectations, while Wade's team had unrealistically high ones.  Cormac's right about the number of legit MVP candidates.  Dirk especially seems to be a victim of his own consistency (and maybe bad memories of accepting his award after losing a series to Golden State) where everyone's taking him for granted these days.

Looking forward to the playoffs.  Lakers looking like the team we thought they'd be, making the West seem less open than it was a month ago, Nuggets surging out of nowhere (but running into a wall with OKC), Boston crumbling, Spurs maybe crumbling (or Pop is easing off at just the right times), Memphis being all feisty, etc.

Oh, and a big to all the college ball purists.

[Phoenix Dark]

text message convo from Monday night

nba fan: ha that game was horrible, I can't believe you watched it all
me: smh
nba fan: no response, no retort about traveling, refs, star treatment? ahahaha take that take that /diddy
me: smh

Great tournament overall, shitty finals.

Anyway time for me to jump on a bandwagon fellas. Philly seems like they can win this here tournament. Elton Brand's experience will definitely carry them a long way!

[Stoney Mason]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]


Heat versus Celtics this afternoon in a big game for the #2 seed in the east.

[Stoney Mason]

Heat crushed the Celtics today. Celtics drop to 3rd place in the east.

[OptimoPeach]

Have the Celtics always been looking that pathetic since their trade? If so, is Shaq supposed to be back before the playoffs? Thirdly, is anyone still picking the Celtics to make it the finals again?

MMM I love to hate the Celtics more than anyone

[Stoney Mason]

Have the Celtics always been looking that pathetic since their trade? If so, is Shaq supposed to be back before the playoffs? Thirdly, is anyone still picking the Celtics to make it the finals again?

MMM I love to hate the Celtics more than anyone

Shaq is supposed to be back for the playoffs but who knows how much he actually has left to play significant minutes.

[Phoenix Dark]

14-10 since the Perkins trade? damn. Not long ago it seemed like they had a chance to come out the east. I wonder if their window of opportunity will be closed after this season

[Mandark]

Hard to blame their skid directly on Perkins' absence, because he only started six or seven games before he was traded, but I'm open to buying that the psychological blow of losing him tipped the scales, with the sheer age of the team and the double O'Neal injury situation making them more fragile than they looked.

The Celtics have certainly appeared to rise and fall with their emotions more than the other contenders over the last few years.

[Beezy]

Celtics drop to 3rd place in the east.

Damn you, Celtics. I want my Knicks/Heat playoff matchup.

[Stoney Mason]

Much like the Lakers, I still think most people think the Celtics will up their game in the playoffs. Especially since the playoffs make it much more of a defensive game and somebody like Rondo and Garnett become much more important figures with the way playoff basketball is played on the offensive and defensive side.

It's just disconcerting to see them playing so poorly recently and hear so much talk about how Shaq will right the ship.

Celtics drop to 3rd place in the east.

Damn you, Celtics. I want my Knicks/Heat playoff matchup.

As a rivalry fan I find the Celtics Knicks to be a much more interesting series but we'll see.

[Beezy]

Knicks vs Heat will be faster paced and high scoring games which is always more fun to watch. Plus I think they actually have a chance against the Heat in a series.

[Cormacaroni]

The Knicks have no chance against the Heat, get real.

Celtics looked bad, again. Jeff Green is such a fucking tweener. He takes as much off the table as he puts on it, to use a Bill Simmons metaphor. It's horrible when the Celtics have 3 tweeners at once on the floor with Green, Big Baby and Delonte West, just horrible. Rondo has been bizarre since the trade, unstoppable one night, totally absent the next. I presume he still knows that this is his team in a few years? 'cause he sure doesn't look like a leader right now.

The Celtics look like a 2nd round exit unless they get a solid 20-25 mins from Shaq. That line-up is great for them - everyone clearly loves playing with Shaq, and he with them. I preferred it to the line-up with Perkins, in all honesty, but would have loved to see Perkins taking all the remaining minutes at center rather than the garbage they have right now.

[Beezy]

The Knicks have no chance against the Heat, get real.

You think they have a better chance against the Celtics?

[Cormacaroni]

The Knicks have no chance against the Heat, get real.

You think they have a better chance against the Celtics?

no, they have no chance against the Celtics.

[Beezy]

 

Anyway, I'd rather see them play the Heat.

[Cormacaroni]

It'll be a huge media blitz at least. Good for the Knicks. But they're not going to pull an upset, no way.

[Phoenix Dark]

It'll be a huge media blitz at least. Good for the Knicks. But they're not going to pull an upset, no way.

And if they get close, the refs will ensure they don't succeed

:etiolet

[Cormacaroni]

yeah, the refs really have it in for those small market teams

[Stoney Mason]

Lakers have dropped 5 in a row. They are the 2nd seed right now in the West but the 2nd to 4th seeds in the west are all within a game of each other.

Knicks are hot again. Have won 7 in a row.

[Cormacaroni]

I think the only major team that hasn't really slumped at any point is the Bulls. Even when they weren't destroying everything in their path, it was clearly because of major injuries to key players, and they still never had a major losing streak that I can remember. They are in pretty great shape for the playoffs, although Boozer is always a ticking injury time bomb I guess.

[Stoney Mason]

That's why I find this year's playoffs are more interesting than most. There is generally a perceived front runner for the title but I think the case is much weaker this year. I think the Bulls and the Lakers (despite the slump) go in as the favorites in both conferences but I don't think anybody would be shocked if both teams don't make it. 


[youtube=560,345][/youtube]
[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[Great Rumbler]

OKC has made a pretty good push the last few weeks, including a nice fourth-quarter thumping of the Lakers last night. Wouldn't be too surprised if they made some noise in the playoffs this year.

Edit: They're 18-3 since losing a close game to the Lakers on February 27th, with a number of wins against playoff teams.

[Cormacaroni]

OKC has really clicked since the Perkins trade. As I expected. Not that I'm alone there!

Tweeners. Fucking tweeners. Green messed up OKC for years by being just good enough to be worth starting him, even though he fucked up everyone ELSE. That's why Durant ended up playing a bunch at PF, and why Ibaka ended up playing a lot of center. Now they're both playing at their natural SF and PF positions, and just fucking wreckin' shop. It's beautiful to watch. This is what the Celtics HAD and lost it. Everyone on the Celtics had their role, and it was a role that played to their strengths. Now it's all a sloppy mess and no-one knows wtf they are supposed to be doing half the time.

[Stoney Mason]

Heat lock up the #2 position tonight. Celtics will stay 3rd.

Looks like it will be the Celtics versus the Knicks in the first round.

[Beezy]

bah

[Bacchus7]

Glad the Lakers tanked themselves right into the 3rd seed while Portland's been working so hard to clinch the 6th seed so they could play the Mav's.

[Mandark]

Wizards rounding into form just in time for the playoffs.  Oh yeah!