The NBA thread

[Cormacaroni]

Really, what the Lakers should be doing is trading Kobe, keeping Gasol, Odom and Bynum and focusing on getting Paul and 2s and 3s of course but that'll never happen 'cause they'd get pilloried by insane-o fans

[benjipwns]

The NBA has caved to pressure from owners that the appearance of this deal, on heels of lockout, had to be stopped, sources tell Y! Sports.

today has been incredible

[Smooth Groove]

Best day ever.  I'm going to dinner with a bunch of friends who are Lakers fans.  I'm sure they would have talked a lot of smack.  Now I'm gonna be the one laughing. 

[Human Snorenado]

The funny thing is that all of these owners are just pissy that it's the Lakers getting Paul.  When he's eventually traded and the Hornets net less than they would have otherwise it will be hilarious.

[Smooth Groove]

Both Gasol and Odom are on the downslide.  Allowing the Lakers to trade two has-beens for arguably the best PG would have make the NBA look like the WWE.

[benjipwns]

Cuban strikes again:

Some owners pushed Stern to demand that trade be nullified, and the Hornets be made to keep Paul on the roster for the foreseeable future, sources said. Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban was one of the most vocal in a chorus of owners irate with the belief that the five-month lockout had happened largely to stop big-market teams from leveraging small-market teams for star players pending free agency.

[etiolate]

The Hornets weren't netting much. If the Warriors would give up Curry then I'd rather have that than Kevin Martin.

[Human Snorenado]

The Hornets weren't netting much. If the Warriors would give up Curry then I'd rather have that than Kevin Martin.

You will content yourself with your mediocre team's current make-up, plebian!

[pilonv1]

Never been so happy in my life  :kylielaff :kylielaff :kylielaff :kylielaff :kylielaff



"You'll take Monta Ellis, Charlie Bell and Andris Biedrins and you'll like it."

[Cormacaroni]

The funny thing is that all of these owners are just pissy that it's the Lakers getting Paul.  When he's eventually traded and the Hornets net less than they would have otherwise it will be hilarious.

Yeah. It's quite possible that they'll get nothing in return for Paul, after all. How that helps the league in any way is a mystery to me. But I can understand why they'd cave to pressure, today of all days. I mean they JUST signed the lockout away TODAY.

[Smooth Groove]

If you're gonna rig the league, why not just give CP3 and Dwight to the Heat?  Then the Heat will truly be the bad guys. 

[pilonv1]

NBA needs a superpower in the West to fight back.

[Human Snorenado]

Here's the problem.  If you're going to stop these small market teams from trading their stars away, then instead of getting stuff in return during their walk year the teams are going to start getting NOTHING, because super stars are not going to want to play in your shitty podunk white bread town when they can go play in LA, Miami and NYC.  That's a fact- these guys are going to go to the big market teams one way or another unless you actually institute slavery or something, which isn't very big these days.

So, trade them in their walk year and get something, even if that something is Odom and a pupu platter or get fucking nothing.  Gosh, that's a tough decision.

[Stoney Mason]

 

Hilarious story.

[Smooth Groove]

NBA needs a superpower in the West to fight back.

In every good story, the heroes always have to fight against overwhelming odds.  It's why a heel is usually the champion for most of the year.   

[Cormacaroni]

Here's the problem.  If you're going to stop these small market teams from trading their stars away, then instead of getting stuff in return during their walk year the teams are going to start getting NOTHING, because super stars are not going to want to play in your shitty podunk white bread town when they can go play in LA, Miami and NYC.  That's a fact- these guys are going to go to the big market teams one way or another unless you actually institute slavery or something, which isn't very big these days.

So, trade them in their walk year and get something, even if that something is Odom and a pupu platter or get fucking nothing.  Gosh, that's a tough decision.

No-one is going to stop this kind of trade getting done for any other team. The only issue here is that the Hornets are currently owned by the NBA, which raises all kinds of conflict-of-interest issues.

[Cormacaroni]

...although it would be very fucking amusing indeed if the league did start applying this rule retroactively. The Lakers would probably be quite happy to get Marc Gasol back for Pau now

[pilonv1]

Yeah as bad as that trade was 2 years ago it looks pretty good now.

[Smooth Groove]

If the Lakers do indeed fail to get either CP3 or Dwight, I'm buying a pair of the ridiculously overpriced Lebrons to celebrate.

[Stoney Mason]

I think Pau is just suffering from not being the most dominant personality type in the first place along with having his balls castrated by Kobe. It's insane they struggle to make that work. I do hope the Chris Paul trade goes through.

It's also funny to see how fast owner solidarity fell apart once it went back to actually competing.

[Cormacaroni]

I think Pau is just suffering from not being the most dominant personality type in the first place along with having his balls castrated by Kobe. It's insane they struggle to make that work. I do hope the Chris Paul trade goes through.

It's also funny to see how fast owner solidarity fell apart once it went back to actually competing.

Minor correction: Kobe stole Pau's nuts from Pau's girlfriend's handbag, then crushed them

[pilonv1]

this day just keeps getting better

[Cormacaroni]

Well, don't go opening that champagne just yet. Now that Odom and Pau know that the Lakers were prepared to ditch them, they may as well go ahead and throw everything they have at the Dwight Howard trade. The Lakers will still likely come out of this smelling like roses. Paul may still join up down the road, even.

[Human Snorenado]

Here's the problem.  If you're going to stop these small market teams from trading their stars away, then instead of getting stuff in return during their walk year the teams are going to start getting NOTHING, because super stars are not going to want to play in your shitty podunk white bread town when they can go play in LA, Miami and NYC.  That's a fact- these guys are going to go to the big market teams one way or another unless you actually institute slavery or something, which isn't very big these days.

So, trade them in their walk year and get something, even if that something is Odom and a pupu platter or get fucking nothing.  Gosh, that's a tough decision.

No-one is going to stop this kind of trade getting done for any other team. The only issue here is that the Hornets are currently owned by the NBA, which raises all kinds of conflict-of-interest issues.

Kinda sorta, but the problem still remains for anyone who might want to buy the team:  Paul is NOT coming back next year.  Do you get something for him or let him walk and get jack shit?  The longer you wait to pull the trigger the less you get, too.

[Stoney Mason]

I hate the idea that now trades have to be acceptable apparently to owners not even involved in the deal. And the NBA is the one responsible since they took over the team and haven't been able to sell it. I feel sorry for Chris Paul.

[benjipwns]

To listen to the GM's, coaches, players, agents reaching out to me tonight: I think the NBA has changed forever with Stern's act tonight.

Well, that's good news.

[Cormacaroni]

I hate the idea that now trades have to be acceptable apparently to owners not even involved in the deal. And the NBA is the one responsible since they took over the team and haven't been able to sell it. I feel sorry for Chris Paul.

Well, today of all days, I can understand the owners being hyper-sensitive to it. I mean, they just sat down and signed a new CBA. No doubt Stern had to make all kinds of promises to the small market teams to get that done. You're right that the other owners shouldn't get a vote though, so long as the deal is legal under the CBA, and both parties are willing. Stern should have listened to the protests, smoothed over the ruffled feathers, and then (as John Hollinger said) quietly had Kevin Martin or someone 'fail' their physical and nix the trade that way

I don't know how this could really be avoided though. There was ALWAYS going to be a firesale in New Orleans, once the owners walked away. It's the only way it can work (and why this is a poor example of Creepy Old Guy's point). Someone was always going to walk off with Chris Paul, and the chances are it was going to be a contender or a big market team, since Paul had the veto. How else could this have played out and been 'fair' to ALL the owners?

[Stoney Mason]

I hate the idea that now trades have to be acceptable apparently to owners not even involved in the deal. And the NBA is the one responsible since they took over the team and haven't been able to sell it. I feel sorry for Chris Paul.

Well, today of all days, I can understand the owners being hyper-sensitive to it. I mean, they just sat down and signed a new CBA. No doubt Stern had to make all kinds of promises to the small market teams to get that done. You're right that the other owners shouldn't get a vote though, so long as the deal is legal under the CBA, and both parties are willing. Stern should have listened to the protests, smoothed over the ruffled feathers, and then (as John Hollinger said) quietly had Kevin Martin or someone 'fail' their physical and nix the trade that way

I don't know how this could really be avoided though. There was ALWAYS going to be a firesale in New Orleans, once the owners walked away. It's the only way it can work (and why this is a poor example of Creepy Old Guy's point). Someone was always going to walk off with Chris Paul, and the chances are it was going to be a contender or a big market team, since Paul had the veto. How else could this have played out and been 'fair' to ALL the owners?

I'm really ready for Stern to go. It's one thing to have a benevolent dictator which stern has always tried to foster the image of but this is starting to feel like the final days of Castro or something where he's still trying to pretend he's the wise old dictator of old.

[pilonv1]

I hate the idea that now trades have to be acceptable apparently to owners not even involved in the deal. And the NBA is the one responsible since they took over the team and haven't been able to sell it. I feel sorry for Chris Paul.

The owners are in the deal, each of them own a part of the Hornets currently

The NBA announced today the finalization of their proposed takeover of the New Orleans Hornets. Officially, the league's 29 other teams purchased the Hornets from majority owner George Shinn.

[Stoney Mason]

I know. That's my point. You can't have a team run as a puppet team. Either the team can function as a separate unit or it can't. But what shouldn't happen is the league running them to not inconvience other teams. If they can't do that then just contract them.

[Cormacaroni]

They can't possibly be allowed input into basketball decisions like this though - it's a huge conflict of interests. (although I guess the Lakers would have voted 'yes' )

Stern is really screwed on this one. What trade DOES he allow now, that won't look similarly unfair? If he lets Paul go to the Knicks, say, a nation of Lakers fans will turn against him permanently. If he lets Paul fester on the Hornets, he looks bad for the whole season.

The Hornets' management must feel totally screwed, having brokered a pretty solid deal. Now they have to start all over again but noone knows what the criteria are. Who is going to want to trade with them, knowing that Stern might rescind it again? (probably after the news has gone public, by which point your relationship with your own players in the deal has soured...)

[Stoney Mason]

Yep. What's the criteria for a trade. That it doesn't offend anyone. That it doesn't involve one superstar joining another. That it doesn't involve a star team. That a league owned team can't make any trades. What is the specific reason that this trade can't go through is what I would like to hear from Stern.

[Stoney Mason]

Just to be clear I'm annoyed with this from a logic and FairPlay sense.


From an entertainment value and drama sense it's still the funniest thing that's happened in ages. And nobody deserves to get screwed more than the Lakers whether it's right or wrong.

[Cormacaroni]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=At_MCea0tR2fjoZ6_q4Uws28vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_chris_paul_lakers_hornets_nba_120811

Dan Gilbert weighs in!

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sadly there is no mention of the font he employed

[close]

[Human Snorenado]

Money quote here:

“We were all told by the league he was a trade-able player, and now they’re saying that Dell doesn’t have the authority to make the trade?” said an NBA executive who had periodic talks with New Orleans throughout the process. “Now, they’re saying that Dell is an idiot, that he can’t do it his job. [Expletive] this whole thing. David’s drunk on power, and he doesn’t give a [expletive] about the players, and he doesn’t give a [expletive] about the hundreds of hours the teams put in to make that deal.

Just now noticing, are we?

[Stoney Mason]

I wish you hadn't posted that. It just made me more angry to read it. Fuck Stern.

[Cormacaroni]

Howard asking for a trade to the Nets?

http://www.sbnation.com/2011-nba-free-agency/2011/12/9/2622858/dwight-howard-new-jersey-nets-nba-rumors-orlando-magic

Lopez, Turkoglu etc would presumably be part of the deal. Howard and D-Will, a new stadium and an owner prepared to spend big - could well work out better than the Knicks IMHO.

[Cormacaroni]

I'm really thinking it's time for Stern to go. He really can't keep his thumb on the scales like this. He isn't really needed 'til the next CBA. He should get the i's dotted on this deal and GTFO, and reinstate the CP3 trade on the way out. Screw Dan Gilbert as well - the guy is irrational. No f'ing way was this lockout about 'competitive balance' - a pipedream unless you have like 4 teams, all with the same budget. It was about the owners wanting more money, end of story.

[Human Snorenado]

It was time for Stern to go roughly five-ten years ago.  He's easily the worst commissioner in all of sports.

[etiolate]

It was time for Stern to go roughly five-ten years ago.  He's easily the worst commissioner in all of sports.

.


The fact that this move is causing outrage towards Stern is... shaaaaaameful.

[Mandark]

So while I wasn't paying attention, the NBA turned into a fantasy league where the owners get to veto trades.

Faaaaaaaaantastic.

[Flannel Boy]

It was time for Stern to go roughly five-ten years ago.  He's easily the worst commissioner in all of sports.

This further confirms that you don't follow hockey.

[Smooth Groove]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7329584/nba-alters-emphasis-shooting-fouls-2011-12

I like most of the rules changes.  However, they probably still won't be applied to superstars. 

[Mandark]

I would hate to be the ref who has to judge, in real time at NBA speed, whether contact was initiated before or after a shooting (or layup) motion while a player was flying towards the basket.

The new rule on rip-throughs sounds good, though.  I'd like to see a similar tweak for when the defender gets faked into the air and the shooter leans forward to create contact.  Not sure what the letter of the law is, but the way it's called tends to reward cynical non-shots once you get your man off his feet.

[Flannel Boy]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7329584/nba-alters-emphasis-shooting-fouls-2011-12

I like most of the rules changes.  However, they probably still won't be applied to superstars.

Rip-through" moves, in which an offensive player swings the ball into a defender's outstretched arm and then attempts a shot once he has created contact, will be considered non-shooting fouls if the contact begins before the offensive player starts his shooting motion.

Also, on drives to the basket, a shooting foul will be called only if contact occurs after the offensive player has begun his shooting motion, not after he has initiated his leap toward the basket.

"Certain types of contact involving the shooter were all being called in his favor," Jackson said. "It doesn't look good for the game. There was a strong feeling that those types of plays were creating an ill-advised reward for the shooter, often with three free throws."

The league will also make traveling in the post and on the perimeter a point of emphasis, with a player hopping off of and landing on the same foot viewed as an automatic violation.

The league continues to go after the Miami Heat. tsc. tsc.

[Smooth Groove]

The swing through move is more about Kobe though. 

[Cormacaroni]

Wade does it a TON though, often in transition.

[etiolate]

Kobe will still get his calls. This hurts Maggette and Martin and others.

[Joe Molotov]

League's really sticking it to Kobe today.

[Human Snorenado]

It was time for Stern to go roughly five-ten years ago.  He's easily the worst commissioner in all of sports.

This further confirms that you don't follow hockey.

I said sports, not whatever it is you vodka snorting atheists do on skates.

[Joe Molotov]

LOL, Stern said this morning that the reason he nixed the trade was because Chris Paul was too important to the Hornets and it was more valuable to the league to keep him in New Orleans than to let him be traded. Uh...right. In 7 months, is he going to force him to resign with the Hornets?

[Stoney Mason]

Stern is getting slammed on this big time. Good.

It won't happen but this is resign worthy imo.

[Himu]

I'm not sure if Gasol is worth losing both martin and scola. I mean, theoretically, speaking, it could be a good team if they based it around gasol and billups but...I'm not sure about that trade.

[Mandark]

I think Houston was meant to be freeing up salary so they could offer a max deal to Nene and team him up with Pau.

Seriously, I hope the league gets enough shit from this that Stern relents, and they have the Lakers add a conditional pick or some other kind of fig leaf so they can pretend the new deal is somehow different.

[Himu]

Yeah, Houston is trying to get Nene. But if Houston didn't get Nene I'd be curious about the team's state

[Mandark]

They'd still have a ton of cap room for next offseason, I assume, and could go after D-Will.

The Rockets seem to be a really well-run franchise, but they're a good illustration of how hard it is to become a contender without lucking into a superstar through the draft.

[Himu]

They'd still have a ton of cap room for next offseason, I assume, and could go after D-Will.

The Rockets seem to be a really well-run franchise, but they're a good illustration of how hard it is to become a contender without lucking into a superstar through the draft.

definitely

[Phoenix Dark]

I was going to go on a mini-Joe Dumars rant concerning the resigning of Tayshawn Prince, but I see the Pistons are dumping Rip Hamilton so I'll give him a pass

[benjipwns]

They aren't even using the amnesty on him, he agreed to a buyout.

[Cormacaroni]

Starting to look like Stern will bend and allow the Paul trade anyway, with a few face-saving alterations. The Celtics seem to have inveigled themselves into the proceedings, and may get David West (and dump J O'Neal) out of it, which is nice...wouldn't mind if the Lakers are forced to give up more now either . They're in a bad situation now, with Odom clearly pissed and no doubt Gasol furious as well.

Still very disappointed at the Mavs not even keeping last year's team together. Really really hard to see Dirk repeating without major-league help. The Heat are practically guaranteed to be much stronger, with the ability to give a mid-level exception to someone good, then pick up an amnesty tax victim on waivers, not to mention getting Haslem back and potentially dropping Mike Miller via the amnesty clause to free up cap space...