Author Topic: The NBA thread (Read 1519553 times)

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4260 on:** March 06, 2012, 01:08:01 AM »

I know he's having issues family and otherwise and all

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/02/sports/la-sp-lamar-odom-accident-20110803

but good lord he should have just retired if this was the effort he was going to give. Yeah he got kinda screwed by the Lakers too but it's a business. It's not like he got traded to the Bobcats or something. He needs psychiatric help.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4261 on:** March 07, 2012, 12:57:15 AM »

LOL @ Lakers losing to the Pistons cuz Kobe won't let Bynum shoot more than him.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4262 on:** March 07, 2012, 02:31:59 AM »

Knicks have come back down to Earth. The Celtics are playing better than them right now so they are almost locked in that 8th spot where they have to play the bulls in the first round.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4263 on:** March 07, 2012, 02:35:01 AM »

Watched the last couple of minutes when Carmelo didn't get to play even after the Knicks caught up. What happened? Was D'antoni mad at him?

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4264 on:** March 07, 2012, 02:39:06 AM »

Didn't catch the game. Too busy playing ME 3.

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4265 on:** March 07, 2012, 03:12:16 AM »

Watched Dwight get pwned by a rookie. Biyombo blocked 7 shots including a hook shot of Dwight. Dwight drives me fucking crazy. No doubt he's the best center in the league, but the league has so many SHIT centers he's got no excuse for not averaging 30 by now. Bobcats single-covered him the whole night and he scored 15, 4 or 6 of those were off offensive rebounds.

What the hell has he been doing in this league for 7 years without developing one offensive move? During warm ups he was taking 3s. After halftime he took a half court 3.

Dude is a joke and an embarrassment to players who actually try and get the most out of their talent. LeBron gets way too much hate, he actually has developed his game. Howard hasn't developed shit and blames Orlando for his shortcomings. It's beyond a joke.

Biyombo has developed more offensively in 30 games without practice than Howard has in 7 years in the league. Towards the end of the game the Magic went to Hack-a-Biyombo and dude started making FTs. Can't wait to see what this kid can do the rest of the year, he's got a ton of potential and apparently is a really hard worker too.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4266 on:** March 07, 2012, 03:17:22 AM »

Dwight is acting like a baby but a smart one. He doesn't want to play so good that Orlando would look like a title condender. He's doing just enough so that the media won't kill him like Vince Carter.

Beezy · « **Reply #4267 on:** March 07, 2012, 09:15:11 AM »

Quote from: Smooth Groove on March 07, 2012, 02:35:01 AM

Watched the last couple of minutes when Carmelo didn't get to play even after the Knicks caught up. What happened? Was D'antoni mad at him?

He was pretty terrible the whole game. Even Stat showed a lot of effort this game, even on defense! Melo... I'm not sure what's going on with him. He needs to get his shot back ASAP.

Joe Molotov · « **Reply #4268 on:** March 07, 2012, 11:41:55 AM »

Odom goes 1-9 with 4 rebs in 23 minutes. That 10 days off is really paying dividends.

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4269 on:** March 07, 2012, 12:18:16 PM »

Quote from: Smooth Groove on March 07, 2012, 03:17:22 AM

Dwight is acting like a baby but a smart one. He doesn't want to play so good that Orlando would look like a title condender. He's doing just enough so that the media won't kill him like Vince Carter.

It's not like he's holding offensive moves back. He doesn't have any and never has. I get what you're saying but that's not what I'm talking about. I agree that his effort was lacking last night too but I'm talking about his overall game.

Furthermore, Biyombo played him straight up a couple of weeks ago too. You could tell Dwight was getting frustrated last night and just couldn't do anything about it.

Mandark · « **Reply #4270 on:** March 07, 2012, 12:21:05 PM »

Dwight Howard has improved a lot and for years single-handedly carried Orlando's defense with a bunch of perimeter players who weren't shutting anyone down. Getting mad at him because he doesn't live up to the impression you get from his chiseled abs (ie every Bill Simmons column) is dumb.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4271 on:** March 07, 2012, 12:32:26 PM »

I think Orlando is an awful team relatively speaking with a bunch of mismatched parts. Dwight needs to get the hell out of there.

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4272 on:** March 07, 2012, 12:48:05 PM »

Quote from: Mandark on March 07, 2012, 12:21:05 PM

Dwight Howard has improved a lot and for years single-handedly carried Orlando's defense with a bunch of perimeter players who weren't shutting anyone down. Getting mad at him because he doesn't live up to the impression you get from his chiseled abs (ie every Bill Simmons column) is dumb.

No one is talking about his defense. You're dumb.

Mandark · « **Reply #4273 on:** March 07, 2012, 01:12:42 PM »

I know, you were talking about his lack of a post game, which you impute to laziness. Laziness which somehow doesn't manifest itself in defense or rebounding, which are notoriously effort-driven.

It's one thing to say that Howard's offense, especially in the half-court, is the weakest part of his game. But acting like it's some moral defect, or a willful choice? Does anyone think Jason Kidd just couldn't be bothered to learn to shoot jumpers on the move during his whole career? That Tim Duncan never practices free throws? That Dwight Howard doesn't want to score more points?

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4274 on:** March 07, 2012, 01:20:48 PM »

Tim Duncan and FTs? He's had five years where he shot over 70% and one year he shot almost 80% from the line. He's a career 76% ft shooter (surprising to me but whatever.) Tim Duncan was a poor choice.

My thoughts on Dwight are as much a reflection on him as they are on the rest of the league. Who was the second best center in the league during his career? A broken down Yao Ming? A baby Andrew Bynum? My point is he came along during the worst 'big man' era in the last 35+ years and he should dominate. If he had one post move he would dominate. Instead he seems content to coast on his athletic gifts. Is it being simplistic to view it that way? Perhaps, but I'm not going to write a thesis. Maybe it is a byproduct of his smile and his massive shoulders, I just think he should be at least competent offensively and he's not.

To be fair he is a fantastic passer out of the double team, which is exactly why the Bobcats didn't double him last night. Also, the Bobcats may have one of the few guys who can play him straight up. I'm not saying he won't have dominant games and doesn't dominate occasionally, but he either takes nights off or he's so limited offensively he can't exploit the terrible centers he faces on a nightly basis.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4275 on:** March 07, 2012, 01:24:59 PM »

Quote from: Stoney Mason on March 07, 2012, 12:32:26 PM

I think Orlando is an awful team relatively speaking with a bunch of mismatched parts. Dwight needs to get the hell out of there.

I'd agree with you if not for the fact that Dwight is willing to go to even more awful teams.

Mandark · « **Reply #4276 on:** March 07, 2012, 01:35:45 PM »

I thought of Timmy because he was making less than half during the playoffs a couple years ago, and he's the sort of player who wouldn't get his work ethic questioned.

It seems intuitive that Dwight would put up bigger numbers because he doesn't have any real rivals at his position, but it doesn't actually make sense. He'll rarely play the #2 or #3 center, and anyway if we're taking offense into account when doing those informal rankings, then it wouldn't make a difference anyway. What matters for his stats is the defense played by the overall big man population in the NBA, and even if there aren't as many marquee post players, I'd be surprised if there aren't at least as many competent defensive bigs now as there were 15 years ago.

Maybe Dwight's suffering from the same thing as LeBron. He's in his peak years as a player and hasn't won a championship, so it's hard to 1) pretend that his ceiling is much different from what he is now, or 2) avoid dwelling on his flaws. One reason I'm pulling for the Thunder to win one in the next few years is to avoid feeling that way about Kevin Durant.

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4277 on:** March 07, 2012, 01:39:57 PM »

Quote

I'd be surprised if there aren't at least as many competent defensive bigs now as there were 15 years ago.

That's a fair point that I hadn't considered. Obviously the game has evolved to a more guard-friendly game as well over the last 15 years.

As far as Duncan goes, his FT percentage was better than I thought. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of as a big, and better than his reputation. I guess that's why you see Hack-a-Dwight and not Hack-a-Duncan. They tried Hack-a-Biyombo last night and he started nailing his. Wish that strategy would die or get outlawed, fouling someone intentionally off the ball is about the lamest version of 'basketball' that exists.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4278 on:** March 07, 2012, 02:34:13 PM »

Quote from: Smooth Groove on March 07, 2012, 01:24:59 PM

Quote from: Stoney Mason on March 07, 2012, 12:32:26 PM
I think Orlando is an awful team relatively speaking with a bunch of mismatched parts. Dwight needs to get the hell out of there.

I'd agree with you if not for the fact that Dwight is willing to go to even more awful teams.

I don't know what's the truth and what isn't about his plans. We'll see after the season. But I have a feeling he will end up in better situation than the current one. Simply going to New Jersey and teaming with Deron Williams is better than the current Magic.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4279 on:** March 07, 2012, 04:31:29 PM »

Props to Abbott for fighting the good fight against the foolishness of conventional sports wisdom. Too bad his own company will continue to treat him as a sideshow.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4280 on:** March 07, 2012, 05:21:53 PM »

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7649638/rumeal-robinson-journey-michigan-star-incarceration-espn-magazine

So sad. This story is like the anti-Blind Side.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4281 on:** March 07, 2012, 07:23:09 PM »

Even Jordan (and Kobe) took years and years to get their post games together, and no-one calls them lazy or unfocused. These things take thousands of hours of practice and even the best will inevitably have some weak spots in their early years due to focusing on what makes them special. In Dwight's case, it is his huge impact on defense - he makes up for 4 other guys. That gift was probably evident early, so that's what he has been coached to do, and that's what his team is built around. He is stiff offensively, so it will likely take hundreds and hundreds MORE hours of practice to get some moves that he can go to against NBA defenses. He can probably do a pretty decent Dream Shake in an empty gym, or guarded by Stan Van Gundy in practice, but he won't bust it out in game 'til he's sure it will work...

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4282 on:** March 07, 2012, 07:31:28 PM »

But Dwight doesn't really need that many moves since he's so athletic. All he needs is better touch around the basket and tighter protection of the ball before it goes up.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4283 on:** March 07, 2012, 07:41:08 PM »

Yeah but you agree that 'better touch around the basket' is either an innate ability or something that takes hundreds of hours of practice, right? If he doesn't have it already, it'll take time. Especially since he has other things to focus on.

Also, people don't remember that he is actually under-sized for a center. Because he can leap and has such amazing shoulders, you don't notice it so much. But he's only 6'9'' - it's not like he can just shoot over everyone.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4284 on:** March 07, 2012, 07:50:28 PM »

Yes, Dwight is on the smallish side for a center. My workout partner and I have often wondered whether Dwight's offensive struggles are partly due to his lack of length. For example, he always struggled against Yao, even after Yao's had a couple of surgeries. He also wasn't so hot against Gasol in the finals. Several people have told me that Bynum looks significantly larger than Dwight in person. Still, Dwight is so athletic that he should be able to go to the other side to get a shot off against a bigger defender.

With regards to the touch, I think Dwight should have perfected it by now. It's really not that hard for someone who will always try to get 95% of his points in the paint.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4285 on:** March 07, 2012, 10:08:17 PM »

lulz. Lakers lost to Pistons and Wizards back to back.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4286 on:** March 07, 2012, 10:10:23 PM »

Funny how so few in the media are calling out Kobe for his ridiculous selfishness this season. Best closer in the game!

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4287 on:** March 07, 2012, 10:34:08 PM »

If you can't see the difference between a guard adding a low post move to his game and a center I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps I was wrong to say he was 'lazy' but during warm ups last night he was jacking up 3s. I know that you don't work on your low post skills during warm ups but it just seems obvious he's content to coast on what he's got, which is incredible athleticism.

If Howard were going to develop a competent low post game we would have seen evidence of it by now, in his 7th season. It's not coming. That's fine, like I said he's still obviously the best center in the game. I just think he should be even better than he is, that's on me not him.

It also should be remembered that he was among the last few classes to come into the league right out of hs, so it's not surprising that he was so raw offensively coming in. He's still got time I suppose but I think he's content to be what he is.

Mandark · « **Reply #4288 on:** March 08, 2012, 12:19:30 AM »

Here's a thought: how many big men came into the league without any post game, and eventually developed a really good one? My understanding, from hearsay, is that Kevin McHale and Hakeem came into the league with some effective moves, and I certainly remember Shaq and Zo hitting the ground running.

It might just be one of those "innate" skills that's very difficult to improve more than marginally over the course of a career. I definitely think "finishing touch" would be under that category too, as someone who's watched Jared Jeffries play a couple hundred games.

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4289 on:** March 08, 2012, 12:30:21 AM »

Funny you should mention Shaq as he used to get killed for not having post moves too. But compared to Dwight he was a post move savant.

In direct contrast to what I saw last night, Al Jefferson absolutely abused Biyombo tonight. This was a guy who came into the league as a high flyer but a knee injury robbed him of his athleticism. He's got a nice repertoire of post moves, not sure if he came into the league with them or not.

I think it's probably a reflection of the AAU/HS failures in the US as much as anything. Two of the best guys in the post in the NBA are foreign, Scola and Gasol. Might have as much to do with coaching as anything.

I shouldn't have singled out Dwight, it's not like there's a whole ton of guys in the NBA with an effective post game. I just think if he had developed a move or two along the way he would be a ton better than he is now. It was shocking to see a rookie who was so raw people wondered if he could even play in the league this year basically play Dwight straight up, but maybe Biyombo is better than anyone gave him credit for being. He certainly seems to be a hard worker as he has improved tremendously from where he was earlier this year.

That said, Jefferson had him guessing all night and ended up fouling him out while getting 31 pts on his own. That's what Dwight should have been able to do, but he wasn't.

etiolate · « **Reply #4290 on:** March 08, 2012, 12:45:30 AM »

I'm pretty sure Shaq didn't have any post moves as a rookie. That bank shot and flip hook only arrived after being with the Lakers for a bit.

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4291 on:** March 08, 2012, 12:46:59 AM »

That's how I remember it too.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #4292 on:** March 08, 2012, 12:50:49 AM »

I played AAU for a year and never ran into a player with a dedicated post game; I played center in junior high and PF in early high school, but once I got to AAU I was moved to SF. I think part of that is because the NBA game has evolved away from the traditional idea of a big man in the post, plus many kids would rather be a shooting guard, or forward that roams the wings/drives. Most of the big guys I ran across seemed like nothing more than defensive anchors.

Shaq was often criticized for not really having a post game, and instead relying on his brute strength. My dad was a pretty big Hakeem fan in the 90s and loved to point out the beauty of his post game, especially when he was out-performing Shaq (my favorite player).

I've never liked Howard's game.

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4293 on:** March 08, 2012, 01:20:22 AM »

Hakeem absolutely embarrassed Shaq when they met in the Finals, a lot of people think that taught Shaq a lesson and made him develop his post game more. Dwight still has time but he's shown no inclination of putting in the work offensively thus far.

The fact that both Kobe and Jordan, and LeBron this season have developed post games prove it's something that can be worked on, unlike 'touch' or the 'passing gene.' Post games may come more naturally to some than others but it's not some innate ability that people are born with. It's something that takes work and dedication.

etiolate · « **Reply #4294 on:** March 08, 2012, 02:19:11 AM »

I guess you could argue that Howard's postgame isn't that advanced because he hasn't had a big man to challenge his place atop the center chart.

Of course, if Cousins blows up on him a few more times maybe he'll care.

Mandark · « **Reply #4295 on:** March 08, 2012, 02:20:45 AM »

Funny thing about the "passing gene" is that I've always thought of passing as something that could be learned, at least for big men. Shaq, Tim Duncan, and especially Wilt (obviously a case where I'm going on stats and secondhand observation).

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4296 on:** March 08, 2012, 02:41:30 AM »

I'd probably agree with that. It's a lot easier for bigs to see over double teams than it is to do what Stockton, Kidd or Kendall Marshall for UNC can do on fast breaks or hitting people off of quick cuts.

etiolate · « **Reply #4297 on:** March 08, 2012, 02:46:40 AM »

There's passing out of traffic and double teams, and then there's seeing the game steps ahead and knowing where teammates will be and getting them the ball. I could immediatly tell with a young Rubio that he was mentally ahead of the entire defense at times. I think the passing gene is also very much a movement of players gene.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4298 on:** March 08, 2012, 10:02:02 AM »

Quote from: Smooth Groove on March 07, 2012, 10:10:23 PM

Funny how so few in the media are calling out Kobe for his ridiculous selfishness this season. Best closer in the game!

He was so shit last night. Something like 4 out of his last 23 and still kept chucking it up everytime and never looking for Pau or Bynum. Perfect game to illustrate the idea that Lebron being unselfish isn't nearly the bad thing people make it out to be.

Quote

After the loss to the Wizards (9-29), Brown attributed the second-half meltdown to poor ball movement, an over-reliance on individual play and inconsistent effort on the road -- critiques that have become familiar after L.A. losses.

"It's very simple," Brown said. "In the first half, we played the right way; in the second half, we didn't. We forced shots, and forcing shots is not a good thing for us."

It was easy to surmise that Brown was speaking about Bryant, who scored 30 points but did so on just 9-for-31 shooting. It was his second straight poor shooting night after making just eight of 26 shots in a loss to the Detroit Pistons on Tuesday.

Asked about Bryant's shot selection -- he was 3-for-18 in the second half -- Brown said, "He was one of the guys that I did not think took great shots in the second half. I thought in the first half, our flow was there, and he got great looks and made the game easy. In the second half, our looks weren't as good."

Those comments are well-founded. Bryant did take some ill-advised shots, particularly in the fourth quarter.

However, they landed strangely with several players just a day after Brown said Bryant should be the MVP because of the way he's carried the team offensively this season despite battling through a serious wrist injury and a concussion.

"[Bryant] and I actually talked about that," Brown said Tuesday night before the loss to the Pistons. "We talked about: 'Hey, we're going to have to rely on our defense. I'm going to let you go on offense quite a bit, you're going to have to carry us offensively because there's a stretch of games that we can win, try to get us over .500, start us heading in the right direction.'

"It was, 'Go get it, I'll take care of the defense and we'll go from there.' And he went and did it."

Bryant refused to comment on Brown's criticism of his shot selection, saying only "OK" and "It's fine" when pressed on the situation.

"He was one of the guys".

He was the only guy. He sucked up all the shots.

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4299 on:** March 08, 2012, 12:34:28 PM »

Another thing, you can see 'passing gene' almost immediately if you know the game. I knew Kyrie had it in just a couple of games at Duke.

And not all elite PGs have it. Not sure if Deron Williams has it (although he has no one really to pass to on NJ, didn't see him play much at Utah.) Don't think Derrick Rose has it either.

Chris Paul though definitely has it.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #4300 on:** March 08, 2012, 01:30:56 PM »

Is Al Jefferson going to make the All-NBA second team? Billy Rygar, discuss.

Re: Bryant
He's the only player averaging more than 20 shots per game (23.9). He takes 5.5 more shots than James even though his TS% is ten percentage points lower. At least Bryant's good at crunch time.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

.279 FG% with the 7th worst TO rate

[close]

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4301 on:** March 08, 2012, 02:33:38 PM »

Dude was a flat out beast last night. Most impressive inside player I've seen in person yet this year.

Between him, Favors and Millsap they dominated the offensive boards.

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4302 on:** March 08, 2012, 04:12:57 PM »

Amazing stat that sums up what Howard is doing this year.

Only two players with 3 games of 6 or more blocks are Ibaka and Biyombo. Biyombo did one of his games against Howard.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #4303 on:** March 08, 2012, 04:15:26 PM »

Quote from: AWESOM-O on March 08, 2012, 04:00:59 PM

The issue with Kobe is he looks so damn effective when he isn't forcing his offense.

Why can't anyone convince him not to force it?

When Kobe is trying to force it in there, he just won't take "no" for an answer.

T-Short · « **Reply #4304 on:** March 08, 2012, 04:16:40 PM »

Quote from: Flannel Boy on March 08, 2012, 04:15:26 PM

Quote from: AWESOM-O on March 08, 2012, 04:00:59 PM
The issue with Kobe is he looks so damn effective when he isn't forcing his offense.

Why can't anyone convince him not to force it?
When Kobe is trying to force it in there, he just won't take "no" for an answer.

HIYOOOOO

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4305 on:** March 08, 2012, 04:21:45 PM »

Quote

"I don't think there's a player in the NBA that wants to be a nobody," Howard said after shootaround Thursday morning. "I think everybody wants to be that guy to take the last shot or be that guy that everybody is leaning on, for whatever reason.

"And I don't think there's any problem wanting to be that guy. I've been that guy for this team since I've been here. And my whole life I've been put in the position of leadership, and I take on that role and I love doing it. Just by what people think, it's very tough being a leader."

How many game winners have you hit Dwight? Shit, they can't even pass it to you in a close game down the stretch for fear of you bricking FTs. This guy is delusional.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4306 on:** March 08, 2012, 04:50:03 PM »

Quote from: AWESOM-O on March 08, 2012, 04:00:59 PM

The issue with Kobe is he looks so damn effective when he isn't forcing his offense.

Why can't anyone convince him not to force it?

There is a school of thought that Kobe takes so many shots because he gets frustrated when Bynum and Gasol are ineffective at leading the team and commit turnovers when they are doubled.

I would argue last night was a prime example of that being bullshit. He couldn't hit shit but kept jacking it up anyway. It was really bad to watch.

When Kobe is on, he's something special but when he is off he's as bad as Iverson ever was.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4307 on:** March 08, 2012, 06:53:07 PM »

A few thoughts for DJ Tet -

Howard is playing out the string in Orlando waiting to be traded - I wouldn't read a whole lot into chucking a few 3s in warm-ups.

A post-up game depends to a large extent on getting fouled - and as we all know, he can't hit his FTs. It makes more sense for him to make quick moves followed by dunks, lay-ups or short hooks or a kick-out to shooters rather than a 5-10 second series of moves that stops the ball and risks sending him to the line. His shooting % remains stellar, he gets double-teamed almost everywhere, and Orlando is built around those kick-outs - it just isn't that much of a problem for Orlando, offensively.

(PS this is going to be a major issue with Blake Griffin as well - he is trying real hard to diversify his game but he remains stiff and the FTs are killing him. Also, while I'm bitching about one of my favorite players ever, his wind-up on the jumper is sooooo sllooooooow. He really needs to stop telegraphing it. And the FTs - aargh! He does this whole squat motion but doesn't even use it for the shot. Maddening)

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4308 on:** March 08, 2012, 09:10:00 PM »

No doubt that the Magic have built their offense around playing off of Dwight's deficiencies. What's going to happen when he gets traded to a team without 5 3point shooters?

And I agree with you about Griffin, it's only his second real year though so let's give him a little time before saying he's going to have the same problem as Dwight. As a rookie he bested Dwight in scoring in all but one of his years. He's also got a decent jumper which is something Dwight doesn't have.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4309 on:** March 08, 2012, 09:58:24 PM »

now you're just hatin'

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4310 on:** March 08, 2012, 10:09:04 PM »

If Dwight wasn't a special player I wouldn't give a shit one way or the other.

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #4311 on:** March 08, 2012, 10:29:47 PM »

Turkeyglu is stupid

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4312 on:** March 08, 2012, 11:23:09 PM »

Quote from: DJ_Tet on March 08, 2012, 10:09:04 PM

If Dwight wasn't a special player I wouldn't give a shit one way or the other.

Sure. But 'built around Dwight's deficiences' is just

The Magic did not build a $100 million team and $xx million arena around anyone's deficiencies. They did it because he's a player that can take a mediocre team to the Finals with the right breaks.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4313 on:** March 09, 2012, 12:07:43 AM »

It's crazy how VC can still throw down better than most 24 yr olds.

Mandark · « **Reply #4314 on:** March 09, 2012, 12:12:30 AM »

Quote from: Smooth Groove on March 09, 2012, 12:07:43 AM

It's crazy how VC can still ~~throw~~ fall down better than most 24 yr olds.

fix't

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4315 on:** March 09, 2012, 12:16:25 AM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on March 08, 2012, 11:23:09 PM

Quote from: DJ_Tet on March 08, 2012, 10:09:04 PM
If Dwight wasn't a special player I wouldn't give a shit one way or the other.

Sure. But 'built around Dwight's deficiences' is just The Magic did not build a $100 million team and $xx million arena around anyone's deficiencies. They did it because he's a player that can take a mediocre team to the Finals with the right breaks.

Guess you misunderstood me.

Quote

His shooting % remains stellar, he gets double-teamed almost everywhere, and Orlando is built around those kick-outs

They surrounded him with great shooters to play off his strengths and try and cover for his offensive deficiencies. You agreed. They weren't wrong to do this, Howard is still the best center in the league by far and a top 5-10 type of player. Even with his offensive deficiencies. Any team would be lucky to have Howard.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4316 on:** March 09, 2012, 12:18:07 AM »

DJ TET, are you Chris Broussard?

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=7655677&_slug_=star-guards-excelling-lack-quality-big-men-nba&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fstory%3fid%3d7655677%26_slug_%3dstar-guards-excelling-lack-quality-big-men-nba

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4317 on:** March 09, 2012, 12:22:01 AM »

I don't have Insider, but I'd have a lot more freckles if I were Chris Brussard. And money.

Mandark · « **Reply #4318 on:** March 09, 2012, 12:45:06 AM »

I think it's just "built around his deficiencies" is a damn weird way to put it. It's not like San Antonio hasn't always tried to space the floor around Duncan.

What it comes down to for me is how eager everyone seems to be to trash Dwight and speculate on how his he's some how competitively deficient. I mean, I expect PD to do it, because he only follows the sport to talk shit about great players. But everyone else?

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4319 on:** March 09, 2012, 12:54:21 AM »

Mandark, you and Cormac are too kind on the players though. Last year, I called out Carmelo for being overrated but you both shot me down.

Dwight is a great player but his slow offensive improvement is pretty glaring for someone that talented atheletically.

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