Author Topic: The NBA thread (Read 1519564 times)

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4380 on:** March 12, 2012, 09:42:00 PM »

Quote from: Stoney Mason on March 12, 2012, 09:38:03 PM

Quote from: benjipwns on March 12, 2012, 09:27:54 PM
I remember arguing with people on a couple forums about Love before/during that Draft. Nobody had any explanation for why he was supposedly "too slow and unathletic" and "won't be a star, maybe a starter for a few years", etc. All his numbers were great but those evaluations were just repeated endlessly over and over. And if ever backed up they pointed to scouting reports that all said the same thing. I remember one site was saying he'd be a shorter Matt Geiger at best.

It's the white man's burden. All white non-euro players get stero-typed into not really an nba player until they prove it.

(Image removed from quote.)

Well, that's true in most cases. It's also true for most black players. Looking through past drafts is always fun for that reason. The superstars are usually obvious but everyone else is a crap shoot.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4381 on:** March 12, 2012, 09:47:19 PM »

I feel like a Bulls-Knicks series would go 4-1 but the '1' would be insanely entertaining

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4382 on:** March 12, 2012, 09:55:27 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on March 12, 2012, 09:47:19 PM

I feel like a Bulls-Knicks series would go 4-1 but the '1' would be insanely entertaining

Knicks might not even make it though. If they lose tonight they are tied for the 8th spot with the Bucks.

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #4383 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:08:06 PM »

And Cleveland has a really easy March. If they win a lot of games this month, Cleveland has a very good shot at being the 8 seed.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4384 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:10:20 PM »

Yeah, Hollinger was not optimistic on their chances the other day.

Somehow knew that Baron would take a crappy 3 there. Good game though.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4385 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:14:57 PM »

Knicks getting murdered on the boards but the Bulls do that to a lot of teams.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4386 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:20:48 PM »

Offensive goaltending - what exactly is the problem with it? Chandler just got hit with one, and I really don't get how it makes the game better. The ball was still in the cylinder, but it wasn't going in. Chandler beats his man and makes a good play (and often one which requires a spectacular, crowd-pleasing burst of athleticism...), and the Knicks get nothing for it. Why do we need this rule, again?

I mean, if the ball rebounds at a slightly different angle, it's a spectacular offensive rebound + put-back dunk. Everyone loves those!

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4387 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:21:22 PM »

Nasty Rose play. That was the exclamation point.

benjipwns · « **Reply #4388 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:21:45 PM »

There were also heavy stereotypes about Euro's being "soft" and "unproven" and I'm not sure it's necessarily racial in origin but instead that problem of trying to fit a whole range of players into one simple evaluation. Every SF who can handle the ball a little is Scottie Pippen, every 6-7 PG is Penny Hardaway. Every fat seven footer is "baby" Shaq. Every tall Euro was Dirk. Every high quality point guard for a while seemed to be compared to Stephon Marbury, now they're Derrick Rose. How many "baby" Jordan's were there outside of Harold Miner, every big scoring SG down to nbadraft.net's infamous comparison for DeShawn Stevenson.

There was an article back when the Nets signed Todd MacCulloch comparing it to the Sonics signing Jim McIlvaine. But one guy was a leaper with no other skills while the other was floorbound post-player with good hands. Yet they were both 7 foot, white and had "Mc/Mac" in their name so clearly it was the same!

And there were these notions about Darko that he was a sweet shooting Toni Kukoc/Dirk Nowitzki style player and thus would play small forward, even though nothing he did in Europe suggested he had that skill set. Teams were pillaged for years for taking European "projects" (even that notion that because they don't come over right away they're "projects") over "proven" college players like Jeryl Sasser and Kareem Rush. Yao was supposed to be this clear bust and the Rockets would forever regret not taking superstars Jay Williams or Mike Dunleavy.

But like I said it's not just racial stereotypes because you have things like how Rasheed Wallace was considered this crazy troublemaker due to his technicals and thrown in with the other malcontents, even though he basically never fought with his coach, opposing players or did cheap shots, mostly because he didn't talk to reporters, yet Juwan Howard was this "model citizen" because he graduated from college, was friendly to the media, etc. yet was racking up tons of flagrant fouls/tripping guys/etc. for years.

Quote from: Cormacaroni on March 12, 2012, 09:42:00 PM

Looking through past drafts is always fun for that reason.

I like the "best case/worst cases" on DraftExpress, Beasley:

Quote

Best Case: Amare Stoudemire Meets Antawn Jamison
Worst Case: Derrick Coleman

Cousins:

Quote

Best Case: Taller Al Jefferson
Worst Case: Derrick Coleman/Eric Dampier

I can't find it now but there's a player from one draft who had Best Case: Sam Cassell/Worst Case: Lee Mayberry. I think I've seen a Best Case: Less athletic Hakeem Olajuwon/Worst Case: Eric Mobley on there too.

Edit: Brandon Jennings has:

Quote

Best Case: Tony Parker
Worst Case: Sebastian Telfair

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4389 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:23:34 PM »

The Bulls are reminding me of the better iterations of AI's Sixers. One guy breaks down the defense, everyone else rebounds and defends hard.

Also, Melo passing up a shot against Kyle Korver. sigh

benjipwns · « **Reply #4390 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:23:55 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on March 12, 2012, 10:20:48 PM

Offensive goaltending - what exactly is the problem with it? Chandler just got hit with one, and I really don't get how it makes the game better. The ball was still in the cylinder, but it wasn't going in. Chandler beats his man and makes a good play (and often one which requires a spectacular, crowd-pleasing burst of athleticism...), and the Knicks get nothing for it. Why do we need this rule, again?

I mean, if the ball rebounds at a slightly different angle, it's a spectacular offensive rebound + put-back dunk. Everyone loves those!

Aren't they going to change that rule? I know the D-League switched to allowing touching balls on the rim supposedly as a test-bed for the NBA rule change.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4391 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:27:26 PM »

Well, it's a big league - 500 active players to keep track of, at least 50 new players coming in every year. I understand why the shorthand you describe exists. It doesn't help that a lot of the public commentators blatantly stopped following the minutiae of the league the day they cashed their last NBA paycheck. Maybe one day we'll have people like Hollinger and Abbott and Pruitt and Pelton doing color and a lot of the bullshit will get swept away....(probably not)

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4392 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:28:00 PM »

To be honest I kinda wish we could just skip ahead to the Bulls and the Heat as far as the eastern conference.

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4393 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:28:46 PM »

Biyombo with the game-winning block of Ariza's dunk attempt feels good man

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4394 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:28:51 PM »

Quote from: benjipwns on March 12, 2012, 10:23:55 PM

Quote from: Cormacaroni on March 12, 2012, 10:20:48 PM
Offensive goaltending - what exactly is the problem with it? Chandler just got hit with one, and I really don't get how it makes the game better. The ball was still in the cylinder, but it wasn't going in. Chandler beats his man and makes a good play (and often one which requires a spectacular, crowd-pleasing burst of athleticism...), and the Knicks get nothing for it. Why do we need this rule, again?

I mean, if the ball rebounds at a slightly different angle, it's a spectacular offensive rebound + put-back dunk. Everyone loves those!
Aren't they going to change that rule? I know the D-League switched to allowing touching balls on the rim supposedly as a test-bed for the NBA rule change.

Definitely worth experimenting with. I'd like to hear an argument for it other than 'but that's the way we always do it'. (which is bullshit because the rules get tweaked every year)

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #4395 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:28:59 PM »

Lin with a bad turnover $:-\$

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4396 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:31:27 PM »

Quote

The Orlando Magic's strategy for the moment on Dwight Howard, according to sources close to the process, calls for spending the next 48 hours or so making one last hard push to acquire the sort of difference-maker that would encourage Howard to commit his long-term future to the team that drafted him in 2004.

If no newcomer is acquired by Wednesday, sources said, Magic officials plan to spend the final 24 hours before Thursday's 3 p.m. deadline evaluating all of their trade options and then deciding Thursday whether to stick to their long-standing desire to roll the dice and keep Howard beyond the deadline or make the best available trade.

As part of this process, one source said, Orlando will continue to seek a "definitive answer" from Howard about his future and hold out hope that he'd at least agree to exercise the option for next season on his current contract to give their marriage at least one more year. But Howard, according to associates, is determined to become a free agent in July in order to have complete control of his future and get to one of the top two destinations on his wish list: New Jersey or Dallas.

The Magic will thus have to decide Thursday if they can bear to keep Howard past the deadline as owner Richard DeVos wants and expose themselves to the possibility that the 26-year-old could walk away for nothing in July -- a la Shaquille O'Neal in the summer of 1996 -- or make the best possible trade they can make this week at the 11th hour.

Magic officials have been telling teams for weeks that they intend to keep Howard at DeVos' behest. The thinking there, sources said, is that the Magic still like their chances of changing Howard's mind -- believing that a successful playoff run or his deep roots in the Orlando community will ultimately make it hard to leave -- better than anything they can get in a trade.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4397 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:35:40 PM »

time for the Nets and Dallas to start spreading FUD about Nash and Rondo then

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4398 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:41:06 PM »

Knicks weren't going to win it anyway but that was a ridiculous 3 attempt.

Anyone think the rumours are true that the Knicks would make a run at Phil Jackson if they fire D'Antoni?

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4399 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:43:36 PM »

Carmelo's laziness is so disgusting. Loose ball is right at his feet and he just takes his sweet time getting it. D'anthoni looked pissed as fuck but didn't do anything about it. I think that would have been a good time to bench Melo for the rest of the game as a message to the whole time. "You play hard or you don't play at all."

benjipwns · « **Reply #4400 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:44:54 PM »

Hasn't Phil Jackson coming back home to save the Knicks been a rumor since 1999?

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4401 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:45:14 PM »

I think they should but it's hard to imagine Phil staying very long. They have a more realistic shot at him now that they are no longer 'rebuilding'. Their core is pretty much set now, which is the kind of situation Phil seems to like and do well in (not that he's ever really done badly so hard to tell of course...)

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4402 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:46:50 PM »

I'm pretty sure that Jackson would be pretty quick to demand a Melo trade if he played like this for Jackson.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4403 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:47:00 PM »

Quote from: Smooth Groove on March 12, 2012, 10:43:36 PM

Carmelo's laziness is so disgusting. Loose ball is right at his feet and he just takes his sweet time getting it. D'anthoni looked pissed as fuck but didn't do anything about it. I think that would have been a good time to bench Melo for the rest of the game as a message to the whole time. "You play hard or you don't play at all."

Agree about the lack of hustle but...he was benched in the 4Q in the last game, along with Amare. D'Antoni isn't really in a position to be benching all-stars regularly right now, sadly.

benjipwns · « **Reply #4404 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:47:34 PM »

It probably depends on his hips and back, can't he barely walk?

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4405 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:50:21 PM »

That's Stoudemire. Carmelo is fine.

Quote from: Cormacaroni on March 12, 2012, 10:47:00 PM

Quote from: Smooth Groove on March 12, 2012, 10:43:36 PM
Carmelo's laziness is so disgusting. Loose ball is right at his feet and he just takes his sweet time getting it. D'anthoni looked pissed as fuck but didn't do anything about it. I think that would have been a good time to bench Melo for the rest of the game as a message to the whole time. "You play hard or you don't play at all."

Agree about the lack of hustle but...he was benched in the 4Q in the last game, along with Amare. D'Antoni isn't really in a position to be benching all-stars regularly right now, sadly.

D'Antoni is a good coach but it seems like he's lost this team. Even HOF coaches usually haven't been able to survive situations like this. It's almost a certainty that he will be fired by the end of the season.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4406 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:51:43 PM »

That's either a hilarious mistake or a fantastic diss on Amare

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4407 on:** March 12, 2012, 11:28:17 PM »

Bill Simmons is doing color on the Clips - Celts game btw, worth a listen if you're a fan.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4408 on:** March 12, 2012, 11:38:11 PM »

I can't stand Simmons' voice. It's so dorky which is completely at odds with the cool guy image that he tries to portray.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4409 on:** March 12, 2012, 11:55:52 PM »

Not a great radio voice, I agree, but I'm so used to it from the podcasts I don't care.

C-Webb has also been great in the few games he calls recently. Would like to hear him do more.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4410 on:** March 13, 2012, 12:03:58 AM »

Enjoyed when Barry and Simmons were bitching about Blake playing too hard and trying to dunk too much just as Blake soared in for the reverse alley-oop finish and their jaws audibly hit the floor

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4411 on:** March 13, 2012, 12:12:38 AM »

Does Simmon also spout his random pop culture references or conventional basketball wisdom that has been disproved by stats?

Mandark · « **Reply #4412 on:** March 13, 2012, 12:14:42 AM »

Agree on Simmons' voice. Don't listen to the podcast, so it usually kills it for me when he does PTI.

I do like his basketball stuff a lot more than his other work, since he obviously cares about and really follows the league. Still has his infuriating tics but he's also sometimes willing to admit when he got things wrong, which is pretty refreshing.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4413 on:** March 13, 2012, 12:24:30 AM »

I like Simmons. Always have. I know you're supposed to hate him or something but I don't.

People like Rick Reilly are who I can't stand reading or listening to.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4414 on:** March 13, 2012, 12:50:37 AM »

I used to a be Simmons fan until he got so egotistical that he can't stop mentioning how he'd solve all the NBA's problems if he were to run it for a day.

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #4415 on:** March 13, 2012, 01:04:19 AM »

and he's a fucking patriots fan

etiolate · « **Reply #4416 on:** March 13, 2012, 01:33:16 AM »

I wonder how he dealt with Tom Brady being buddy buddy with Kobe.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4417 on:** March 13, 2012, 02:00:15 AM »

Quote from: Smooth Groove on March 13, 2012, 12:50:37 AM

I used to a be Simmons fan until he got so egotistical that he can't stop mentioning how he'd solve all the NBA's problems if he were to run it for a day.

I also find that annoying sometimes along with how his boston bias is a blinder for him sometimes although he's often aware of it. To be fair though the same thing often happens in this thread and on this forum or any forum and in real life everyday on just about every subject. Everybody thinks their an expert nowadays on everything. I just find his writing more entertaining than the average posters lets say.

etiolate · « **Reply #4418 on:** March 13, 2012, 02:13:34 AM »

You can call out Simmons and if the responses are strong enough, he'll address it in reply. I saw it happen when he dismissed Sacramento's moving situation.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4419 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:18:33 AM »

TJ Ford forced to retire. Sucks

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7676569/san-antonio-spurs-tj-ford-retiring-latest-injury-neck

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #4420 on:** March 13, 2012, 11:32:00 AM »

I would argue Simmons is a comedy writer doing sports and podcasts. Not sure why people get angry reading his stuff considering the context. Now whether somebody finds him funny is subjective. Mosts sport writers though are doing "serious" writing so they think. Every thing Simmons write is pretty much with tongue planted firmly in cheek. He writes and talks about Jersey Shore for goodness sakes.

David Brooks ain't doing comedy.

pilonv1 · « **Reply #4421 on:** March 13, 2012, 08:51:58 PM »

I AM SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4422 on:** March 13, 2012, 08:58:36 PM »

Yeah, team makes a lot more sense now...Jackson can get some kind of a defensive line-up out there occasionally now.

pilonv1 · « **Reply #4423 on:** March 13, 2012, 09:03:11 PM »

Shut Curry down, Bogut is gone. Tank mode is on and hopefully we can keep our pick.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4424 on:** March 13, 2012, 09:12:59 PM »

Amnesty Jackson in the offseason too, I'd imagine...would that give them much cap space?

benjipwns · « **Reply #4425 on:** March 13, 2012, 09:15:41 PM »

They can't, they already amnestied Charlie Bell. Plus you can't amnesty traded players.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4426 on:** March 13, 2012, 09:21:17 PM »

In that case...prepare for some more hilarious Stephen Jackson interviews about veteran leadership

pilonv1 · « **Reply #4427 on:** March 13, 2012, 09:24:48 PM »

JAX expires next year. It's not a big deal. The main thing is keeping the pick this year. Tank express headed for Kidd-Gilchrist!

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4428 on:** March 13, 2012, 09:29:06 PM »

I thought he makes $10 million next year, which would be a big deal if he gives them nothing but still bitches at playing time etc...

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #4429 on:** March 13, 2012, 09:36:58 PM »

Howard is trying to get a close game in his last home game as a Magic. OT there with Miami.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4430 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:10:11 PM »

I was watching the Heat-Magic game with my dad who is a very casual basketball fan. He kept asking why Howard is so coveted when he is such a horrible scorer. My dad says that all Howard does is spin around with no purpose before throwing up a shot that is usually a brick.

I kept trying to explaing Howard's value in the other aspects of the game but my dad wouldn't listen. He insisted that Orlando should just trade him because that's not a player that you build around to win a championship. I think PD would have loved talking about Howard with my dad.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4431 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:10:39 PM »

Eh, who are they going to trade him for? Bynum? I'm guessing they just let him walk and blow the team up at this point...

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #4432 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:13:58 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on March 13, 2012, 10:10:39 PM

Eh, who are they going to trade him for? Bynum? I'm guessing they just let him walk and blow the team up at this point...

Orlanda goes to the playoffs this year, then they need to really focus on FA/rebuilding in the next two/three seasons. They're going to be bad without Howard, so they'll get a good lottery draft for several seasons.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4433 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:14:15 PM »

I'm not watching Heat-Magic but apparently Dwight has 24pts-26rebs-3stl-2blks...I pity l'il Smooth trying to impress Daddy with his grade school play

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #4434 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:15:50 PM »

Quote from: BrandNew on March 13, 2012, 10:13:58 PM

Quote from: Cormacaroni on March 13, 2012, 10:10:39 PM
Eh, who are they going to trade him for? Bynum? I'm guessing they just let him walk and blow the team up at this point...

Orlanda goes to the playoffs this year, then they need to really focus on FA/rebuilding in the next two/three seasons. They're going to be bad without Howard, so they'll get a good lottery draft for several seasons.

Yeah, but you just said this was his last home game, as if you expect him to be traded? Are they still mathematically a lock for the playoffs even if they trade him then?

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #4435 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:17:59 PM »

I think they'll trade him, yes. They'll probably be a 5 or 6 seed if Howard is traded, I think. The bottom of the East possibles aren't that good to get really hot in the next few months.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #4436 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:21:51 PM »

Quote from: Smooth Groove on March 13, 2012, 10:10:11 PM

I was watching the Heat-Magic game with my dad who is a very casual basketball fan. He kept asking why Howard is so coveted when he is such a horrible scorer. My dad says that all Howard does is spin around with no purpose before throwing up a shot that is usually a brick.

I kept trying to explaing Howard's value in the other aspects of the game but my dad wouldn't listen. He insisted that Orlando should just trade him because that's not a player that you build around to win a championship. I think PD would have loved talking about Howard with my dad.

Well he's right

pilonv1 · « **Reply #4437 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:24:45 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on March 13, 2012, 09:29:06 PM

I thought he makes $10 million next year, which would be a big deal if he gives them nothing but still bitches at playing time etc...

He does, expires after next season (12/13). They did the trade today to see if they could re-route him before the deadline. I don't see Jax being a problem in Oakland again.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4438 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:36:50 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on March 13, 2012, 10:14:15 PM

I'm not watching Heat-Magic but apparently Dwight has 24pts-26rebs-3stl-2blks...I pity l'il Smooth trying to impress Daddy with his grade school play

He did miss 4 straight FTs in the OT while laughing the whole time like he didn't care. Heat couldn't capitalize but it still looked pretty bad for a team captain.

DJ_Tet · « **Reply #4439 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:42:25 PM »

Quote from: Smooth Groove on March 13, 2012, 10:36:50 PM

He did miss 4 straight FTs in the OT while laughing the whole time like he didn't care.

shocking

News:

Author Topic: The NBA thread (Read 1519564 times)