Author Topic: The NBA thread  (Read 1519476 times)

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benjipwns

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4440 on: March 14, 2012, 02:12:29 AM »
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7684157/mike-dantoni-lost-new-york-knicks-locker-room-according-sources
Quote
D'Antoni, hailed as an offensive genius during his successful tenure in Phoenix, has lost the Knicks' locker room, the sources say.

"The players like Mike as a person," one source said. "They think he's a good guy. But he doesn't have the respect of the team anymore."

...

In addition to questioning D'Antoni, players are complaining about playing time, and confused about the offensive and defensive schemes.

...

Management, the coaching staff and the players know Anthony is hurting the offense and in turn, the defensive morale, according to the sources. While D'Antoni's offense calls for Anthony to plant himself on the wing at the 3-point line, he often creeps in to his favorite spot in the floor -- the area between the elbow, the arc and the post. That kills the Knicks' ability to run the high pick-and-roll and ruins the spacing that is so critical to D'Antoni's offense.

"That's at the very core of our problem," one person close to the situation said. "That messes up the fluidity of the offense. Melo could do it, but he's got to trust the offense."

When Anthony first returned -- and it still appears to be the case -- Lin would bring the ball up court and try to run D'Antoni's system. When Anthony would abandon the offense, Lin would not pass him the ball, which irritated Anthony, sources said. So when Lin tried to talk to Anthony on the court, Anthony would turn his back to the point guard and tune him out. The two never had heated exchanges, though, and the players tried to come to a compromise, agreeing to run D'Antoni's system while also mixing in post-ups for Anthony.

"But it's just a mess because D'Antoni's system is not designed for that," one source said.

Despite his often poor body language, many of the players believe Anthony is trying to adjust and sincerely wants to win. He has told people close to him that he is being asked to do things he's never done, saying that throughout his career he has always had plenty of post-up opportunities and that he is uncomfortable standing on the wing spacing the floor.

"Half the team is trying to do what coach says and the other half is doing something different," one source said. "Then it spills over to the defensive end because players are (ticked) off about somebody taking a bad shot."

...

Some players believe D'Antoni had the leverage to force Anthony to adjust to his system when he first returned from injury. The Knicks were rolling, showing they could win without Anthony, and their fan base was believing in D'Antoni's system. If D'Antoni had checked Anthony, perhaps even benching him, when he strayed from the offense, the players and fans would have been behind the coach and Anthony would have had no choice but to conform. But D'Antoni, ever the one to avoid confrontation with his players, would not do it, and now it's too late. That's when he lost the locker room for good.

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4441 on: March 14, 2012, 02:51:51 AM »
Bad situation there. Probably only a last-minute Steve Nash trade could save D'Antoni now, if it's that bad.
vjj

Beezy

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4442 on: March 14, 2012, 02:54:19 AM »
smh

etiolate

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4443 on: March 14, 2012, 03:17:25 AM »
I have this feeling that getting blown out by a shorthanded warriors team at home is going to get someone on the Kings traded in a panic cry by the Maloofs.

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4444 on: March 14, 2012, 03:30:07 AM »
Awesome-o, please stop with that BS.  I know you don't wanna face the truth but Lebron is by far the best player in the world atm.  There's no 1 for 1 trade for Lebron that makes sense for the heat. 

Speaking of trades, I wonder how the trade would out for the Bucks.  I can already smell a silent feud between Jennings and Ellis.  Two undersized shoot first guards have never worked out well in the NBA. 

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4445 on: March 14, 2012, 03:34:43 AM »
True that in isolation, it doesn't make sense...but the resulting Heat line-up kinda does.

I wonder if they could amnesty Bosh and sign Howard at a slight discount as a FA, that would be just insane. Wade, LeBron and D-12, sweet mamma
vjj

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4446 on: March 14, 2012, 03:39:14 AM »
But Bosh is too good to use the amnesty on.  Maybe Heat could pull some under the table deal with Stern's approval to get something in return.  Anything is possible after the CP3 trade. 

benjipwns

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4447 on: March 14, 2012, 03:39:27 AM »
Amnestying Bosh won't put them under the cap.

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4448 on: March 14, 2012, 03:43:34 AM »
I guess not. But thinking about it sure makes you realize the gulf between Bosh (a reputed superstar) and Dwight (2nd best in the league), doesn't it?
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pilonv1

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4449 on: March 14, 2012, 07:19:36 AM »
I have this feeling that getting blown out by a shorthanded warriors team at home is going to get someone on the Kings traded in a panic cry by the Maloofs.

I should be mad about it ruining the tank job but they played a type of basketball I haven't seen in Golden State for years. Monta is almost as bad as Melo.
itm

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4450 on: March 14, 2012, 11:56:07 AM »
The Knicks have given up an average of 110 points in March.  :lol

The Knicks are pretty brutal when Amare is on the court and decent when he's off. When he's on the court, the Knicks score 100.7 and give up 104.6 (per 100 possesions). When he's off, the knicks score 106.4 and give up just 96.9. Effective FG% allowed goes from 50.4% to 45.9%.

For a comparison, when Garnett is on the floor, the Celtics score 105.3 and give up 98.2; when he's off they're 97-102.

Beezy

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4451 on: March 14, 2012, 12:27:00 PM »
People have been bitching about Melo more than Amare. I never understood why. Good things hardly ever happen this season when he's on the court.

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4452 on: March 14, 2012, 12:29:23 PM »
Melo is the bigger star. Whenever things go bad (or good) all the heat or (praise) goes to the superstar.

Beezy

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4453 on: March 14, 2012, 02:18:27 PM »
News on twitter is that D'Antoni resigned. No word yet on who the next coach will be. :-\

etiolate

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4454 on: March 14, 2012, 03:00:17 PM »

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #4455 on: March 14, 2012, 03:00:32 PM »
 D'Antoni is a good coach but that knicks situation was never a good fit for him. In retrospect if they had just kept all the original pieces and not traded for Carmelo they would probably be better off right now. But hindsight is 20/20.

T234

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4456 on: March 14, 2012, 03:09:17 PM »
What happened to Linsanity? Amare and Melo happened? Or what?
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TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4457 on: March 14, 2012, 03:11:24 PM »
Lin is absolutely not to blame for their fall.  He's been playing solid PG games with solid PG numbers.  Obviously he's not hitting his highs like his first few games, but he's not the problem.  It's Amare, the surrounding cast not playing as well as when Lin was the team leader, and coaching.
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Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4458 on: March 14, 2012, 03:14:50 PM »
What happened to Linsanity? Amare and Melo happened? Or what?

Amare got slow and old in one year. And Melo is having his career worst year by far.
They both play no defense on a team that is already really weak defensively outside of Chandler.
Lin and Melo have an inherent conflict of interest because Melo needs the ball in his hands all the time to be "effective" which pretty much removes the effectiveness of somebody like Lin.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 03:28:50 PM by Stoney Mason »

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4459 on: March 14, 2012, 03:19:27 PM »
Quote
As they steeled themselves late Monday for a grinding, gripping final 12 minutes in Chicago, the Knicks broke into two factions along the bench. At one end, a swarm of players gathered around the coaching staff. At the other, Carmelo Anthony sat stoically, a towel over his shoulders, alone.

“I do that every game,” Anthony would say later, smiling.

Anthony knew he would be on the bench to start the fourth quarter, as he often is. It was perhaps not that vital for him to join his 14 teammates in the huddle. Yet in the context of the Knicks’ current struggles, the imagery was striking, and telling.

The Knicks are not a unified team. On one side is Anthony. On the other is everyone else.

It is evident in Anthony’s body language, in his teammates’ postgame remarks and in the minor wrinkles of the box score. It is most glaring in the win-loss ledger, which has been inverted since Anthony rejoined the lineup.

The Knicks were 7-1 without Anthony last month (including a victory over Utah in which he played only six minutes). They have lost 8 of 10 games since he returned.

For two weeks, the Knicks played a fluid, joyful game in which everyone thrived and pulled for one another. The joy has faded, pushed aside by tension and resentment and a six-game losing streak.

The causes are varied, and Anthony is not solely to blame. But multiple people with ties to the team cite a growing divide between Anthony and his teammates that is threatening to derail the season.

Anthony is breaking plays and demanding the ball in isolation, then snapping at teammates when they fail to get it to him. It happened late Monday, when Anthony called for the ball in the post, then smacked his hands in anger after Landry Fields went elsewhere. More often, Anthony saves the criticism for more private moments, on the bench or in the locker room.

Anthony wants the Knicks to play through him, as every team has throughout his career. He is, by is own admission, uncomfortable in an offense in which he is not the primary ball-handler. That role is now capably filled by Jeremy Lin and Baron Davis.

“He wants 20 shots a game,” a person with ties to another Knicks player said of Anthony. “He has had a scorer’s mentality his whole life.”

Yet the team that Anthony rejoined in late February no longer needs a 20-shot-a-game player. The Knicks have scoring options in Amar’e Stoudemire, Tyson Chandler, Steve Novak, Iman Shumpert, Fields and Lin — the group that spearheaded the seven-game winning streak last month. They have since added more scoring in Davis and J. R. Smith. They are at their best when everyone is involved.

That is the philosophy that Coach Mike D’Antoni preaches daily, one that is echoed by Stoudemire after nearly every defeat.

“All of us, every single player, has to buy into it, and give the coach a chance for his strategy to work,” Stoudemire said after Sunday’s loss to the Philadelphia 76ers. “If we don’t, then see what happens.”

These critiques and speeches about “sacrifice” are always unspecific and carefully worded, but it is understood that they are intended for Anthony, the only Knick talented enough to repeatedly break plays and get away with it.

The fact is, Anthony is not performing at a level that warrants more shots or self-indulgent play. He is shooting a career-low 40 percent from the field. The Knicks are 2-11 this season when he has 20 or more attempts.

For the past 10 games, the Knicks have been demonstrably worse when Anthony plays. With Anthony on the court, the Knicks are scoring at a rate of 97.7 points per 100 possessions. When he is on the bench, that rating soars to 109.8.

The contrast is just as sharp on defense: the Knicks give up 107.1 points per 100 possessions with Anthony on the court, 95.1 with Anthony on the bench. His personal differential, a minus-9.4 rating, is the worst on the team in that 10-game stretch.

Nor is Anthony fulfilling his presumed role as a clutch performer. He misfired repeatedly down the stretch in Chicago, adding to a string of fourth-quarter failures this season. He intentionally fouled Kyle Korver and sent him to the line on a key possession in the final minute, with the Knicks down by 4, after the players had been instructed to simply play defense.

This is not an issue of whether D’Antoni’s coaching or his system suits Anthony, or whether Anthony likes D’Antoni. The question is whether Anthony is willing to subjugate his game for the greater good, as his teammates are demanding.

If not, he risks losing more than just his team’s respect. Fans who swooned over Anthony 13 months ago are booing him during introductions. Columnists are dissecting every comment, every shot attempt and every sideline gesture.

The Knicks are 12-20 with Anthony in the lineup this season, and 25-34 since he put on the uniform.

Carmelo Anthony wanted the Knicks. He demanded the trade that cost them four starters and multiple draft picks, and the $65 million extension that came with it. Anthony wanted the New York spotlight. Now he must accept the glare.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/14/sports/basketball/anthonys-return-has-hurt-the-knicks.html?_r=1

Great Rumbler

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4460 on: March 14, 2012, 03:23:47 PM »
Quote
For the past 10 games, the Knicks have been demonstrably worse when Anthony plays. With Anthony on the court, the Knicks are scoring at a rate of 97.7 points per 100 possessions. When he is on the bench, that rating soars to 109.8.

The contrast is just as sharp on defense: the Knicks give up 107.1 points per 100 possessions with Anthony on the court, 95.1 with Anthony on the bench. His personal differential, a minus-9.4 rating, is the worst on the team in that 10-game stretch.

Quote
The Knicks are 12-20 with Anthony in the lineup this season, and 25-34 since he put on the uniform.

Quote
He demanded the trade that cost them four starters and multiple draft picks, and the $65 million extension that came with it.

So, basically, the Carmelo trade is one the worst in sports since Herschel Walker?
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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4461 on: March 14, 2012, 03:38:19 PM »
So, basically, the Carmelo trade is one the worst in sports since Herschel Walker?

Worst since the Phil Kessel trade.

If that doesn't count, Pat Garrity and Dirk Nowitzki for Robert Traylor

Joe Molotov

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4462 on: March 14, 2012, 03:44:12 PM »
Carmelo is the 2nd worst player in the league after Lebron James.
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Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4463 on: March 14, 2012, 06:05:35 PM »
Quote
Dwight Howard has told several teammates, as well as members of the Orlando Magic organization, that he will not opt out of his contract at the end of this season, sources close to the situation said.

That would mean Howard would remain under contract in Orlando through the 2012-2013 season.

Howard has not signed a waiver of his early termination option at this point, which means nothing is guaranteed yet. Both Howard and his representation must sign the documentation.

This latest development comes one day after league sources with knowledge of the situation said Howard's public plea late Tuesday to remain in Orlando for the rest of the season only served to anger the Magic and has pushed them closer than ever to trading their superstar center.

Convinced that Howard, on the advice of his agent, is trying to manipulate the situation, the Magic are telling teams they will trade Howard before Thursday's 3 p.m. ET deadline if he does not commit to them beyond this season, league sources said.

"Dwight's dreaming if he thinks Orlando won't trade him without a commitment,'' a source said. "He needs to make some small commitment to them. They're saying it can't be one way.''

While the Magic would like Howard to sign a maximum extension that would keep him in Orlando through the 2014-2015 season, they would settle for a commitment from him to not opt out of the final year of his current contract. That would give the Magic more time to pull off a trade for a star to play beside him, enhancing their chances of keeping him long-term.

The tension between the two sides has grown. According to sources, the Magic are incensed with Howard's agent, Dan Fegan, who they believe has manipulated Howard and is the driving force behind his push to leave the franchise.

ESPN the Magazine's Ric Bucher, citing sources, reported Tuesday that the club had given Howard the right to decide the fates of general manager Otis Smith and coach Stan Van Gundy. The team responded to that report with a brief statement asserting that only ownership would make such changes.

And the Magic believe Fegan's statement Tuesday afternoon, in which he denied Howard had asked for or wanted that power, was nothing but a ploy to put the team in a bad light.

Already bothered, Orlando was angered even more by Howard's comments after Tuesday's victory over Miami, when he said he wanted to stay with the Magic throughout the season. When asked about the risk the Magic would be taking by doing that, Howard said they should "roll the dice."

Howard said Tuesday night that he has talked with Magic owner Rich DeVos and other front-office executives the past two weeks about his desire to stay.

The Magic believe Howard is legitimately torn. But they also believe his comments Tuesday were a ploy to allow the New Jersey Nets, the team Howard requested a trade to in the preseason, to keep their players and assets, thereby enabling Howard to join a stronger Nets team this summer as a free agent, sources said.

Upset and ready to move Howard unless he changes his stance, the Magic have essentially told other teams -- most notably the Nets and the Los Angeles Lakers -- to let the bidding begin.

If it had its druthers, New Jersey indeed would sign Howard as a free agent in July and team him with Brook Lopez, MarShon Brooks and the other solid role players it would lose this week if it traded for Howard.

Even so, sources say the Nets are hoping to trade for Howard this week to bring certainty and closure to their situation. While they feel strongly about their chances of landing him as a free agent, they realize that nothing is certain in free agency and that Dallas is a real threat to sign both Howard and Nets point guard Deron Williams.

The Lakers have been active in talks around the league, mainly about trading Pau Gasol and adding a point guard, but sources say they are still interested in Howard as well.

The Magic would also be interested in a Knicks package of Carmelo Anthony and Tyson Chandler, sources say, should the Knicks make such an offer.

The Knicks have discussed the deal internally but have been given no indication that Howard would remain with the Knicks long-term if the deal takes place. That being the case, they have thus far refused the temptation to engage Orlando in trade talks.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7686147/sources-orlando-magic-dwight-howard-opt-end-season

pilonv1

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4464 on: March 14, 2012, 07:28:46 PM »
Feel sorry for Pringles, he wasn't the problem. Even Jackson couldn't save this mess.
itm

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4465 on: March 14, 2012, 07:42:33 PM »
Melo and Chandler for Dwight - I think i'd do that if I were the Knicks, if the Magic're actually interested and not just trying to drive up the price from other suitors (which i think is likely)
vjj

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4466 on: March 14, 2012, 08:01:54 PM »
Big Game.

Miami at Chicago tonight.


Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4467 on: March 14, 2012, 08:04:21 PM »
thanks for the heads-up!
vjj

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4468 on: March 14, 2012, 08:23:08 PM »
Is Dwight good or at least decent at running pick and rolls?  If so, Knicks should try their best to make that trade.  While I think that Chandler is a highly underrated player and clearly the Knicks' MVP, I can't shake the feeling that he only has 2-3 good years left even though he is only 29.  Chandler just seems to move quite awkwardly for a guy his age. 

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4469 on: March 14, 2012, 08:27:14 PM »
Bethlehem Shoals on the departure on D'Antoni. Tend to agree that in the absence of info to the contrary, we should be blaming Dolan/the poisonous system he has created:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Mike D'Antoni bailed on the Knicks today as the mightiest sports city in the world claimed another easy victim. The team has lost its last six games, and questions about the relationship between D'Antoni and Carmelo Anthony were clouding the future. The Knicks' best player is a poor fit for the coach's system; it was all too much for D'Antoni, so he skulked back to the hills of Appalachia where he could further his efforts to clone Steve Nash from a single strand of hair.

Of course, last month, D'Antoni's system turned Jeremy Lin into an overnight sensation with Melo in street clothes, had Tyson Chandler looking like a two-way beast, and made invaluable contributors out of Steve Novak, Iman Shumpert, and Landry Fields. The Knicks went on a seven-game winning streak, Lin became the most popular athlete on the planet, and the team had finally found its identity. D'Antoni was vindicated then, but hey, before Lin's emergence, he had been on the hot seat. No one said this town played fair.

It's true that neither D'Antoni nor Melo seemed to understand how they could practically work together. D'Antoni has a system that's been proven to get results, and wring the most out of players far less talented than Melo; Anthony's deliberate pacing and need to work with the ball in space has made him one of the game's most potent scorers, and not in a way easily discounted or explained away.

Do we want to believe that the two butted heads, and over a matter of weeks, things got so bad that D'Antoni decided to throw in the towel? Could the man who coached one of the best teams of the decade through several deep playoff runs not handle the attention? Is Mike D'Antoni so weak? Is Carmelo Anthony that virulent a coach-killer, even with stand-up dude Tyson Chandler and Amar'e Stoudemire, who owes his career to D'Antoni, as important voices in the locker room? Is there any man up to the challenge of coaching the New York Knicks?

Maybe D'Antoni was frustrated with his team and yes, probably the New York tabloid media. It's hard to imagine, though, that a little bit of professional discomfort, and a freaking basketball problem, could make him storm out the door. Something pushed him, making D'Antoni lose that famous temper of his and storm off, more annoyed than defeated. We may never know exactly what it was, but again, he's a pro who also happens to be one of the decade's most successful coaches. I seriously doubt that New York, in all its majesty, reduced him to brainless jellyfish of a man. It's special, but not that special. Media is media, and the Knicks, really are just a basketball team.

But what does make the Knicks special, and working for them so singularly unpleasant, is their famously rude, stupid, arrogant, impatient, meddlesome, and counter-productive ownership. The work environment James Doland creates, as has been documented a zillion times over, is far from ideal. He wants Isiah around because only Isiah feels this stuff is normal. If this were just about basketball, even a stubborn Carmelo, D'Antoni probably would have stuck around through year's end.

Coaches solve problems; it's their job. At the same time, Melo isn't exactly interested in being seen as the guy who ran a big name coach out of town. Chances are, something happened in the last few days, to make D'Antoni decide it wasn't worth it, something above and beyond what coaches are used to dealing with. My bet would be on Dolan. He's what makes the Knicks unlike any other basketball team, and why a coach like D'Antoni might truly come face to face with things he might not have deal with anywhere else (well, except for maybe with the Clippers.) New York exceptionalism is vain, if illusory; Knicks exceptionalism is a plague.



Read More http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-q/2012/03/mike-dantoni-has-left-the-building.html#ixzz1p8mQHOER
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Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4470 on: March 14, 2012, 08:28:24 PM »
Knicks crushing Portland tonight.

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4471 on: March 14, 2012, 08:29:54 PM »
Is Dwight good or at least decent at running pick and rolls?  If so, Knicks should try their best to make that trade.  While I think that Chandler is a highly underrated player and clearly the Knicks' MVP, I can't shake the feeling that he only has 2-3 good years left even though he is only 29.  Chandler just seems to move quite awkwardly for a guy his age. 

Chandler has missed a lot of games with flashing-red-light injuries, it's true. Love him, but there is nothing he can do that Dwight can't do better (oh wait - FREE THROWS)
vjj

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4472 on: March 14, 2012, 08:44:14 PM »
Rose is out tonight, need another game to watch instead.
vjj

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4473 on: March 14, 2012, 09:32:53 PM »
The Hollinger piece on D'Antoni's departure was depressing. Honestly, that trade for Dwight sounds like a fucking bargain, if Melo really has entered the downside of his career (hard to believe but apparently this is not unusual for wing players in his weight class who lack a great outside shot...). Trade him before his value plummets!

Of course the Knicks won't do it though, and we'll get 3 more years of this crap instead of an up-tempo Lin-driven offense and hustle on defense.
vjj

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4474 on: March 14, 2012, 10:45:54 PM »
Watching on delay but the Bulls are actually kicking ass here...impressive.
vjj

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4475 on: March 14, 2012, 10:46:03 PM »
Melo's fall is kind of stunning. I watched him in HS and college, dude was amazing; he also seemed like a relatively chill guy. First few NBA seasons were solid; his rookie year was better than LeBron's iirc.

Now...wtf? His game has devolved somewhat steadily ever since his first couple seasons. Is this the case of a very talented guy who simply stopped giving a shit, working hard, etc? It's pretty shitty, he was one of my favorite players for a long time
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Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4476 on: March 14, 2012, 10:50:47 PM »
He kicked ass individually just last season (although it didn't help the team that much...), and in D'Antoni's system. As did Amare when D'Antoni was riding him.

The conventional wisdom will no doubt become that he is Lazy and a Bad Person but the more likely explanation seems to be that he just isn't good enough anymore to run isos for all game long and expect him to carry an offense. He's always been lazy on defense.

Like I said, it blows my mind that he could have peaked already, at his age, but that does appear to be the historical trend for his type of player. I'd like to see some more data on that though.
vjj

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4477 on: March 14, 2012, 10:56:50 PM »
Watching on delay but the Bulls are actually kicking ass here...impressive.

If I was forced to bet I would go with the bulls over the heat in a series this year. But that's just my opinion.

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4478 on: March 14, 2012, 11:19:49 PM »
Is that Heat fan self-hate or because you think the Bulls improved more than the Heat did? I don't think the regular season record is that reliable this year, and I haven't watched the Bulls that much for whatever reason.
vjj

Mandark

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4479 on: March 14, 2012, 11:22:10 PM »
Like I said, it blows my mind that he could have peaked already, at his age, but that does appear to be the historical trend for his type of player. I'd like to see some more data on that though.

*Checks Bernard King's page on basketball-reference.com*

Oh, shit.

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4480 on: March 14, 2012, 11:26:05 PM »
Probably half self hate and half I really do believe it.

I do think it helps the bulls to have played the Heat last year and mentally and physically see what it takes to play against them. I think they will be better for that.  I also think the bulls are legit a better team than they were last year.  So are the heat of course but I just don't like them. I still think their flaws when it comes down to it are worse than the bulls flaws will be. Of course their highs are also higher than the bulls.

Honestly either team could win a series but I trust the bulls a bit more even with what happened last year. I would of course love to be proven wrong.

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4481 on: March 15, 2012, 02:04:31 AM »
Perfect example of why I think Bill Simmons is terrible and much prefer Hollinger's takes instead:

I went to Sunday's nationally televised Knicks-Celtics game in Boston. Carmelo made what seemed to be the clinching basket; Pierce made a 3 to tie; then Carmelo had a chance to win the game in regulation. As 'Melo was getting off the shot, everyone in the building had a collective slow-motion heart attack. Noooooooooooooooooo! We all thought that shot was going in. In my opinion, seven 2012 players make opposing fans crap their pants in a big moment: Kobe, Wade, Durant, Rose, Dirk, Carmelo … and just on reputation alone, Ray Allen. If you employ one of those players, you have a better chance of winning the title than everyone else. That's the way basketball works. Everything slows down, the pressure turns suffocating, games swing on one or two possessions, and playoff series hinge on two questions: "Can you get a stop when it matters?" and "Can you get two points when it matters?" You have the second question covered thanks to Carmelo. You need to work on the first question. In short, I think you should give this a few more weeks. You go 10-deep. Your team is scary. Take a deep breath and enjoy the ride … and remember, five years ago, the most riveting Knicks-related story you were following was a sexual-harrassment suit.

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4482 on: March 15, 2012, 02:08:53 AM »
As recently as March 8, Hollinger was telling Knicks fans in chat to relax, and that Melo would probably start hitting shots soon though, so it's not like even he is immune to a player's rep.

Then again, his negativity is more directed at the fact that the Knicks have 3 more seasons of max money to Melo and Stat rather than bemoaning Melo's performance this year...2015 doesn't look promising...
vjj

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4483 on: March 15, 2012, 02:14:54 AM »
Of the seven players Simmons mentioned, Dirk is the only one that I would believe is almost certain to hit a game winner and that was only during his super hot streak last year. 

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4484 on: March 15, 2012, 02:18:52 AM »
I was genuinely terrified of Kobe anytime from 2000-06 at least, now I'd be praying for him to force something.
vjj

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4485 on: March 15, 2012, 02:19:21 AM »
I just hate it when Simmons passes off his own opinion as absolute truth.  When I hear about how clutch Kobe, Melo and Rose are, I just think "overrated fucks". 

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4486 on: March 15, 2012, 02:24:42 AM »
It's pretty much a fact that NOBODY is anywhere near as good in the clutch as they are normally so I kind of wish people would STFU about it. Most games aren't that close anyway. The 1st quarter is statistically just as important as the 4th - but it's usually not anywhere near as entertaining 'cause everyone is saving themselves to be a hero at the end
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Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4487 on: March 15, 2012, 02:26:19 AM »
Another reason why coaches should never take out their players with 2 fouls by the way - players are just as useful in the 1st, 2nd period IF THEY'RE ALLOWED ON THE COURT. Let your best players play, coaches, stop trying to pretend you make a difference
vjj

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4488 on: March 15, 2012, 02:40:15 AM »
Maybe it's a coach's way of showing deference to the officiating? I wouldn't be surprised if some petty ref continues to give quick fouls to a player that a coach won't take out, even with 2 fouls in the 1st or early 2nd. 

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4489 on: March 15, 2012, 02:43:22 AM »
Usually it is accompanied by screaming at the ref in question, is it not :lol
vjj

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4490 on: March 15, 2012, 02:48:35 AM »
Yeah, but it obviously doesn't do much since Stern has made the refs pretty much invicible except when someone is caught being friendly with the gambling underworld. 

I wish like fan day, every once a week the fans would get to pick a "call your own fouls" game.  It'd be fun to see who likes to call soft fouls or who is too proud to call any fouls at all. 

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4491 on: March 15, 2012, 03:04:25 AM »
Quote
In addition to his on-court struggles, it appears that Wizards center JaVale McGee is a bit delusional. Sources say he has informed the Wizards that he will be looking for a contract averaging around $14 million when he becomes a free agent after next season.

there is not enough :lol

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7685875/nba-trade-chatter-48-hours-deadline

vjj

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4492 on: March 15, 2012, 03:28:33 AM »
LA radio was spreading rumours of a Steve Blake for Jamal Crawford trade.   Dunno why Portland would even consider that trade but it's impossible to predict what Portland would do since Paul Allen fired one of the best GMs in the NBA.  If Blake is enough to entice Portland, then the Clips should hurry up with their offer of Eric Bledsoe.  Clips are sorely lacking a quality player at SG. 

Human Snorenado

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4493 on: March 15, 2012, 03:29:57 AM »
Everything I get interested in this season turns to shit.   :-\  First Rubio, now the Knicks.  RUN AND HIDE, KEVIN LOVE!
yar

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4494 on: March 15, 2012, 04:05:18 AM »
LA radio was spreading rumours of a Steve Blake for Jamal Crawford trade.   Dunno why Portland would even consider that trade but it's impossible to predict what Portland would do since Paul Allen fired one of the best GMs in the NBA.  If Blake is enough to entice Portland, then the Clips should hurry up with their offer of Eric Bledsoe.  Clips are sorely lacking a quality player at SG. 

Well, Felton is easily one of the worst-performing PGs in the league. Blake wouldn't be much of an upgrade but I guess they have happy memories from his last tenure there. They know the season is a bust now anyway though, so Crawford wants out. Crawford would help the Clippers a lot, I agree.
vjj

DJ_Tet

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4495 on: March 15, 2012, 06:14:37 AM »
Good, hopefully that means Cho isn't going to send DJ Augustin to Portland for Crawford.  I like Crawford but that's not enough to give up on DJ yet, we'd need another pick and they still owe the Bobcats a 1st.

Rich Cho :bow
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pilonv1

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4496 on: March 15, 2012, 06:49:01 AM »
It's kinda funny that the Walsh plan was all about clearing cap space... and now the Knicks are stuck with two max players who kinda suck.

I used to think Chris Cohan was the worst owner in the NBA but Dolan runs fucking rings around him.
itm

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4497 on: March 15, 2012, 08:40:44 AM »
Sterling?
vjj

Flannel Boy

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4498 on: March 15, 2012, 01:04:30 PM »
I just hate it when Simmons passes off his own opinion as absolute truth.  When I hear about how clutch Kobe, Melo and Rose are, I just think "overrated fucks".

Quote
Kobe Bryant
Kobe slowly morphing into the anti-LeBron, an end-of-the-game killer

NBA Player "Clutch" Stats
Bryant .279 FG%
James: .400

There are three subjects where facts are almost always irrelevant: religion, politics, and sports.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 01:07:24 PM by Flannel Boy »

Flannel Boy

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Re: The NBA thread (Fall of the Knicks. Bring back Isiah!)
« Reply #4499 on: March 15, 2012, 01:05:22 PM »
Another reason why coaches should never take out their players with 2 fouls by the way - players are just as useful in the 1st, 2nd period IF THEY'RE ALLOWED ON THE COURT. Let your best players play, coaches, stop trying to pretend you make a difference

 :bow Cormac :bow2