Author Topic: The NBA thread  (Read 1520810 times)

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TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7980 on: January 30, 2013, 05:36:53 PM »
Rudy Gay to the Raptors  :o
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Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7981 on: January 30, 2013, 06:13:44 PM »
my man Hollinger bustin' moves....i'm sure he is dying to write a Per Diem about the awesome cap implications of all this, and to explain why he is sticking the Grizz with Tayshaun Prince and Austin Daye

Lionel Hollins will be pissed though...that could get nasty. He has already taken a few shots at 'advanced stat guys' since Hollinger's advent
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TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7982 on: January 30, 2013, 06:27:31 PM »
is hollinger basically moneyballing the grizzles?  :lol
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Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7983 on: January 30, 2013, 06:36:37 PM »
well, Gay's contract was daft, it needed to go if they wanted any kind of flexibility. They overpaid 'cause they needed perimeter scoring in the worst way. The problem is they still don't have that, as far as I can see. More moves coming, I bet
vjj

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7984 on: January 30, 2013, 06:37:15 PM »
yeah, there's supposed to be a third team involved here soon
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7985 on: January 30, 2013, 06:39:08 PM »
Prince is a solid vet who will do well on a good team. But Daye?  :lol
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TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7986 on: January 30, 2013, 06:41:39 PM »
Celtics perhaps, Cormac?
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Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7987 on: January 30, 2013, 06:51:26 PM »
Ed Davis has been REALLY good for the Raptors since Bargnani actually but he doesn't seem like the Grizzlies' biggest need. Without Calderon and Davis, the Raptors will likely fall apart again with the fools gold tandem of Bargs and Gay jacking up jumpshots and not defending...but their season is done anyway.

Davis certainly fits the grid and grint personality of the Grizz but they need some scoring pretty bad surely? Prince can still score a little but he really needs to hog the ball to do it, from the little Pistons I have forced myself to watch.
vjj

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7988 on: January 30, 2013, 06:54:27 PM »
There was talk of Dallas or Boston aas a third possible team involved...any decent, tradable perimeter guys on those teams?
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Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7989 on: January 30, 2013, 07:02:36 PM »
Prince is a solid vet who will do well on a good team. But Daye?  :lol

Is Daye still only 200lbs?  I'm not even sure he'd dominate at the local gym. 

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7990 on: January 30, 2013, 07:07:51 PM »
should call him Austin Daye-light, yeah

He can stretch the floor I guess but so can a million other guys. Seems like half the league shoots 38%-plus on 3s these days
vjj

CajoleJuice

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7991 on: January 30, 2013, 07:21:26 PM »
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pilonv1

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7992 on: January 30, 2013, 08:01:28 PM »
is hollinger basically moneyballing the grizzles?  :lol

Not really, Gay has sucked this year and his contract is terrible. Prince fits better and Davis could be good. They still lack a shooter though.
itm

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7993 on: January 30, 2013, 08:14:03 PM »
Fans in Laker town are going nuts after 3 wins and talking about winning the championship again.  It's crazy how fickle fans are. 

I'm doing my share of getting their hopes up.  It will be so sweet when the fool's gold loses its glitter. 

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7994 on: January 30, 2013, 08:21:49 PM »
It's not like Kobe has never had big assist games before. First sign of desperation and he'll crack and start gunning, I bet. In the meantime, the Lakers are actually fun to watch though, wish they'd keep it up. The pecking order is pretty stable right now, could use a little shaking up - between the Lakers' mini-resurgence and the Celtics being taken out and the Grizzlies trade, I might get my wish. That said, the Heat's path to the Finals is easier than ever sans Rondo. Knicks and Pacers are the only East teams they'd have to show up against now...
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TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7995 on: January 30, 2013, 08:29:23 PM »
Pacers match up well with the Heat, as proven by their series last year and the few times they've met this year.  Should be a fun playoff series if they meet again.
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Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7996 on: January 30, 2013, 08:30:30 PM »
I love Reggie Evans but how he's gonna be the one talking smack on the Nets?

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7997 on: January 30, 2013, 08:35:41 PM »
BIRDMAN
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Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7998 on: January 30, 2013, 08:36:59 PM »
Pacers match up well with the Heat, as proven by their series last year and the few times they've met this year.  Should be a fun playoff series if they meet again.

Heat didn't have Bosh in the playoffs last year...and the non-LeBron Heat are cruising so hard i don't think the season matchups mean all that much. But yeah, the Heat will have to show up against them for sure. They won't actually be in any danger though
vjj

Flannel Boy

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #7999 on: January 30, 2013, 09:16:10 PM »
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/rudy-gay-sent-toronto-three-team-deal-doesn-002551538--nba.html
Quote
And Toronto? Again, we have no idea.

Once Aaron Gray and Linas Kleiza pick up their player options for next season, the Raptors will be over the luxury tax featuring a core of Gay, DeMar DeRozan and Andrea Bargnani. Three players that nobody seems to covet outside of the offices of Raptors GM Colangelo. Of course, the team could decline to keep Kyle Lowry’s non-guaranteed contract around, but that would leave the Raps with absolutely no point guards outside of John Lucas III — so named because he’s (and this isn’t a shot) always the best third-string point guard in the NBA.

Think of this deal for Toronto in terms that exclude specifics. The franchise had a competent point guard with a massive expiring contract and a very talented 23-year-old center who is working on a rookie deal paying him less than half of the NBA’s average salary. They turned those assets into Gay, who they’ll pay more than $37 million to over the next two years.

Quote
2. Good deal or bad deal for the Raptors?

Arnovitz: Bad deal, because in 18 months Davis will likely be the best player in the deal. Gay is pretty much the big gulp version of DeMar DeRozan -- a tall, inefficient slasher at his position who doesn't move the ball, doesn't shoot all that proficiently and doesn't stand out at the defensive end.

Crain: Bad deal. The Raptors have picked up salary for next season, lost a very valuable player and a good prospect and landed a player that has yet to live up to his reputation in college or the pros. Gay is a dynamic player but not someone you build a franchise around, even though he is paid like it.

Feldman: Bad deal. The Raptors' four leaders in usage rate -- Rudy Gay, Andrea Bargnani, DeMar DeRozan and Alan Anderson -- each have field-goal percentages below the league average. Everyone knows the best way to build a team is stockpiling low-efficiency and high-priced (Anderson exempted on the latter) scorers. Right?

Levy: It's a wash. Gay has his problems, but he's a huge upgrade over anyone else the Raptors have run out at small forward. It does create a new set of problems on the perimeter, where he and DeRozan give the Raptors one of the worst outside shooting wing tandems in the league. However, it's hard to criticize the Raptors too much for rolling the dice here.

Murphy: OK deal. They sold high on Jose Calderon and Ed Davis and bought low on Gay, the best player in the deal.Gay is overpaid but he is the best wing the Raptors have had since Vince Carter.

Nowell: Bad deal. Hard to see what the plan is in Toronto, where they are now building around an expensive core of athletic wings with limited creation skills. Perhaps, at least, this is the liberation Kyle Lowry and his army of blogger backers have been seeking his entire career.
MLSE  :lol :lol :lol


Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8000 on: January 30, 2013, 09:29:40 PM »
Selling high on Z-Bo might make sense now for the Grizz with Ed Davis and Darrell Arthur, but personally I'd want a LOT in return. Prince is pretty efficient but they'll need more points on the wing and trading Z-Bo might be the only way left to accomplish that.

The Raptors are just fucked...no-one wants Bargnani. They'll  be the softest team in the league if they start those guys.

Also, my god Birdman looks ridic
vjj

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8001 on: January 30, 2013, 11:22:26 PM »
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/54045/three-nba-doping-myths

oh god Henry, everything you say here is true but PLEASE shut up, PLEASE. No-one wants basketball to go down this route of persecuting athletes for using pharmaceuticals to train harder and recover faster, nobody but you

Does anyone really want Kobe's (say) career shitbinned because he got caught? Can we not just be happy that he is still playing at an elite level, and is seemingly in great health? Do we care why Russell Westbrook has never missed a game? Why LeBron recovers from injuries that would floor any of us? Or if Nash is just starting a 3yr contract at 40 because he eats Paleo and does yoga, or supplements with EPO or HGH?

Sorry to rant on this again but it kills me to think about the massive shitstorm this could result in
vjj

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8002 on: January 30, 2013, 11:34:49 PM »
Daye is another failed Dumars project that didn't pan out. Greg Monroe is rather inconsistent and perhaps one of the slowest big men in the league...but I still think he can be pretty good. Love me some Andre Drummond though, dude could be VERY good. The Pistons suck this year but I like how Frank is slowly developing Drummond. I haven't watched Calderon in ages but he can't be worse than Knight, who just isn't a PG. Move him to off guard, let Calderon run the team and keep bringing Stuckey off the bench. Eventually Drummond will replace Maxiel and we'll get to see how that works.
010

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8003 on: January 30, 2013, 11:59:48 PM »
Drummond and Monroe offer similar intriguing possibilities to Chandler and Eddy Curry back in the day. They could definitely dominate together, although separately seems more likely. Calderon is the most productive player in the whole deal but IIRC you only have him for the rest of the season on this contract.
vjj

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8004 on: January 31, 2013, 12:59:51 AM »
lulz. Looks like Lakers gonna blow a big 4th quarter lead.

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8005 on: January 31, 2013, 01:04:11 AM »
Lakers blow a 13 point lead. Get outscored 29 to 13 in 4th quarter.

 :rofl

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8006 on: January 31, 2013, 01:06:25 AM »
You know I like a Kobe Bryant that is actually trying to pass the ball more but what is the point of having Steve Nash in your lineup if Kobe is now your defacto point guard. Is this really the best way to run your team. Nash played 33 minutes and had 2 assists.


Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8007 on: January 31, 2013, 01:26:59 AM »



Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8008 on: January 31, 2013, 01:37:38 AM »
i'm catching up on Clips - Wolves and it's pretty damn entertaining.

Also read an Insider piece on perimeter defense that ranked VINCE CARTER #8 from all current players, 172 of which were eligible. Weirdly this passes the eyeball test too. He is still a weak sister with injuries but he's a very solid player, especially for his age
vjj

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8009 on: January 31, 2013, 01:47:01 AM »
To be fair, Vince had to carry less talented teams early in his career.  This was before the league came down hard on physical plays so opposing teams would hack him pretty hard, especially because they didn't want to end up on sportscenter. 

T-Short

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8010 on: January 31, 2013, 03:02:27 AM »
地平線

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8011 on: January 31, 2013, 03:13:41 AM »
Rudy Gay is actually below average PER I think; amazing how looking like a superstar can confuse the shit out people
vjj

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8012 on: January 31, 2013, 03:36:45 AM »
But Gay is clutch!  He hit that game winning shot against Lebron.

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8013 on: January 31, 2013, 03:37:38 AM »
Perkins has very good reason to avoid looking too closely at stats of course
vjj

pilonv1

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8014 on: January 31, 2013, 03:42:19 AM »
It's surprising sometimes how little some players pay attention to other teams.
itm

T-Short

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8015 on: January 31, 2013, 03:56:56 AM »
Perkins has very good reason to avoid looking too closely at stats of course

 :lol
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Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8016 on: January 31, 2013, 04:19:04 AM »
It's surprising sometimes how little some players pay attention to other teams.

There is an amazing bit on the Grantland podcast with David Lee and Steph Curry where they admit that neither of them know what true shooting % is. You'd think their agents would mention it to them at least, especially Curry's!
vjj

pilonv1

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8017 on: January 31, 2013, 05:02:13 AM »
Curry should because his is awesome :lol

I can understand them not knowing some advanced stats but Rudy Gay is shooting 40% and has his lowest scoring average since his rookie year. Also getting to the line the least of his career since his rookie year. \

But I can't imagine being a professional athlete and not scouting, watching and knowing your opponents inside out.
itm

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8018 on: January 31, 2013, 03:36:51 PM »
Pretty cool



Might as well toss this in.


Flannel Boy

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8019 on: January 31, 2013, 07:06:19 PM »
https://twitter.com/KendrickPerkins/statuses/296757137638567936

hehe
Rudy Gay is right there under Kyle Korver, Corey Brewer, and Chandler Parsons. #badtrade

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8020 on: January 31, 2013, 08:16:44 PM »
It's surprising sometimes how little some players pay attention to other teams.

There is an amazing bit on the Grantland podcast with David Lee and Steph Curry where they admit that neither of them know what true shooting % is. You'd think their agents would mention it to them at least, especially Curry's!

I wouldn't be surprised if they're lying just to appear unconcerned about stats.  Look at the uproar over Dwight Howard looking at the stat sheet after a loss.

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8021 on: January 31, 2013, 10:01:41 PM »
Thunder having NO MERCY on the Grizz post-trade
vjj

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8022 on: January 31, 2013, 10:36:38 PM »
Loved Hakeem doing what we laughingly now call 'the Rondo' there at the end :bow

Fascinating to see LeBron soak that stuff up. This is the diff between him and Rudy Gay, who has essentially acquired no new skills since entering the league
vjj

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8023 on: January 31, 2013, 11:20:38 PM »
Marv and C-Webb calling the GSW game, hoorah

vjj

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8024 on: January 31, 2013, 11:32:22 PM »
Kevin Pelton giving Hollinger some love. Quite exciting that they have a bunch of trade exemption cash to spend this season without worrying about the tax, as well the option of dealing Z-Bo without really getting worse this season.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
With Thursday's three-way trade sending Rudy Gay to the Toronto Raptors in exchange for a package headlined by Raptors forward Ed Davis and Tayshaun Prince of the Detroit Pistons, the Memphis Grizzlies are attempting to pull off the most difficult of NBA balancing acts -- building for the future while continuing to win now. Can they achieve both goals? Let's take a look.

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The obvious question for the Grizzlies is how they replace the point production Gay provided. At 17.2 points per game, he was the leading scorer on a team that is often starved for points. From the perspective of the Memphis front office, including Per Diem predecessor John Hollinger, that scoring came at a price. Gay was one of the league's most inefficient high scorers, with a true shooting percentage -- incorporating 3s and free throws -- of .478, far below the league average of .530. Prince, Gay's likely replacement in the starting lineup, has a superior .503 TS%.

At the same time, Gay's ability to create shots did have value. He was responsible for using a team-high 25.6 percent of the Grizzlies' plays while on the floor, far higher than Prince's usage rate in Detroit (18.3 percent). Memphis probably will fill in those extra plays by committee. My SCHOENE projection system sees each of the team's starters boosting their scoring average by at least 0.5 points per game (see table).

Scoring Averages To Go Up?
Player   Current PPG   Proj. PPG
Randolph   15.8   16.5
Gasol   13.7   14.2
Conley   13.0   13.7
Prince   11.7 (Det.)   12.9
Bayless   5.8   10.3
Allen   8.2   9.5
The player who figures to add the most scoring responsibility is sixth man Jerryd Bayless, who averaged 11.4 points per game last year in Toronto. Bayless has been less prolific this year, in part because he has focused on playmaking as the backup to point guard Mike Conley. The emergence of rookie Tony Wroten has freed up Bayless to play off the ball, and he has scored double figures in each of his past four games. Look for Bayless to continue to see more playing time and occasionally finish games at shooting guard next to Conley.

For the rest of the Grizzlies, more shot attempts will mean lower shooting percentages. Research has shown a consistent tradeoff between additional usage and TS%. When we account for the value of Gay's usage, his adjusted TS% is better than Prince's mark and nearly identical to Memphis' average as a team. So the Grizzlies probably will decline on offense, though not by much. SCHOENE projects the new Memphis lineup will rank 22nd in the NBA in offensive rating -- a slight decline from the Grizzlies' current ranking of 20th.

No matter who's at small forward, Memphis wins with grit, grind and defense. Only the Indiana Pacers allow fewer points per possession than the Grizzlies, and that doesn't figure to change by swapping out Gay for the long-limbed Prince. Though Prince is no longer regarded as an elite stopper, Detroit has defended small forwards better than any other position this season. Opposing 3s are posting a 10.9 PER against Prince, per 82games.com, an improvement on the 13.4 PER Gay has allowed.

There's no question that Gay is the more talented player, and has been more productive as recently as last season. However, Prince is perfectly capable of replacing the production Gay has offered during a down year for him. Consider this move mostly a wash in the short term, one tilting Memphis slightly more toward defense instead of offense. The Grizzlies remain in a fight for the fourth seed in the Western Conference and home-court advantage in the first round, but far behind the top three contenders in the West.

Future flexibility
By shedding some $4.5 million in salary this season, $7.5 million next year, and more than $10 million in 2014-15, Memphis has finally removed the financial noose that hung around the franchise's neck since extending or re-signing Conley, Gay, Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph in a 17-month span. The Grizzlies gathered a number of trade exceptions by creatively structuring both this deal and last week's trade with Cleveland. The team now has enough room to spend the largest of these exceptions -- $7.5 million for Gay himself -- to add salary before the trade deadline and still remain under the luxury tax line.

One interesting name to watch is J.J. Redick, who might be available in the final season of his contract with the Orlando Magic and would fit neatly within Memphis' new trade exception. Redick would give Memphis more scoring, shooting and creativity at the two-guard spot, their biggest long-term need. Since plenty of teams covet Redick, trading for him would probably require giving up the newly acquired Davis.

Then again, the Grizzlies may see Davis and not Randolph as their power forward of the future. After moving into the Toronto starting lineup in place of Andrea Bargnani, Davis thrived, averaging 12.9 points and 7.7 rebounds per game on 55.7 percent shooting. The 23-year-old Davis is a better fit with the rest of the team's core (Conley is 25 and Gasol 28) in terms of age than Randolph, 31.

The trick is finding the right landing spot for Randolph. Though he's an All-Star, the combination of his age and salary ($34.3 million over the two seasons after this one) makes him a tough fit for most of the teams that have a need at power forward. One notable exception is the Brooklyn Nets, who could build an offer around Kris Humphries' shorter contract and have hardly shied away from adding salary. A package of Humphries and MarShon Brooks might give the Grizzlies both scoring prowess on the perimeter and a chance at cap space in the summer of 2014.

Because the luxury tax is no longer looming, Memphis doesn't have any pressure to move Randolph. However, if trading Gay even after getting under the tax this season has taught us anything, it's that the new Grizzlies front office won't shy away from making aggressive moves.

The danger for Memphis was becoming a Western Conference version of the Atlanta Hawks of recent vintage -- never seriously a contender, with little hope of ever getting to that point and a window in danger of snapping closed. Instead, the Grizzlies have extended their timetable by getting younger and adding financial flexibility. And it looks as though they've done it without dealing their chances this season much of a blow, if any.

/spoiler]
[close]
vjj

Great Rumbler

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8025 on: January 31, 2013, 11:51:04 PM »
KD's stats this year are just crazy, well above his personal average [which is already crazy as it is] in pretty much all the major stats. And the Thunder overall just look incredibly hard for anybody to beat consistently. I know San Antonio still has a one game lead over them, but after last year it's just really hard to see them making any kind of significant run in the playoffs.
dog

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8026 on: February 01, 2013, 12:09:07 AM »
but that athleticism also makes it hard for Lebron to be a consistent outside shooter

Robo

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8027 on: February 01, 2013, 01:06:25 AM »
KD's stats this year are just crazy, well above his personal average [which is already crazy as it is] in pretty much all the major stats. And the Thunder overall just look incredibly hard for anybody to beat consistently. I know San Antonio still has a one game lead over them, but after last year it's just really hard to see them making any kind of significant run in the playoffs.

San Antonio didn't have a significant run in the playoffs last year ... ?
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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8028 on: February 01, 2013, 09:54:34 AM »
Oops, I was thinking about two years ago. :-\
dog

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8029 on: February 01, 2013, 01:39:53 PM »

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8030 on: February 01, 2013, 03:47:29 PM »

Beezy

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8031 on: February 01, 2013, 04:36:10 PM »
 :lol

ToxicAdam

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8032 on: February 01, 2013, 04:48:45 PM »
He looks like a guy trying to get to the front row at a festival concert. :lol

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8033 on: February 01, 2013, 08:16:10 PM »
Quote
Celtics rookie Jared Sullinger will miss the rest of the season with a back injury, league sources tell Y! Sports. He will need surgery.

When it rains it pours

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8034 on: February 01, 2013, 08:19:32 PM »
lol, him and Bradley were the only bright spots left

this is fucked up. Oh well, at least they gave it a shot. Now Ainge can blow it all up with a clear conscience and the fans won't riot
vjj

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8035 on: February 01, 2013, 08:36:49 PM »
Miami getting their ass kicked in Indy. How not surprising.  :-\

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8036 on: February 01, 2013, 08:56:21 PM »
regular season indy match ups just suck for miami
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Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8037 on: February 01, 2013, 10:36:37 PM »
I wouldn't be surprised if Lebron moved again.  He's the only that still looks hungry.

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8038 on: February 01, 2013, 11:35:31 PM »
lol what

not until wade retires and the rest of the team sucks, at the very least
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Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8039 on: February 02, 2013, 12:03:01 AM »
Miami has had a half season to realize this pure small ball crap doesn't work against certain teams. It's more of a change of pace attack during a game or something that works against specific teams. Their offense is better than last year but their defense is clearly worse which is troublesome.