Author Topic: The NBA thread  (Read 1519553 times)

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Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8580 on: February 24, 2013, 08:43:38 PM »
Yup, Old Man Vince has still been jumping higher than 99% of the league

He was just born to fly

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8581 on: February 24, 2013, 08:46:25 PM »
nice look at his career stats there...Clyde Drexler is a pretty good guy to be compared to. Everyone wanted more from him but they wanted more from Clyde too
vjj

pilonv1

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8582 on: February 24, 2013, 08:47:18 PM »
Watching Dallas - Lakers now. getting really sick of the 'Vince Carter OF OLD' meme - when did Vince ever stop dunking? Every single time he does something athletic people act like he hasn't done that since his rookie year on the Raptors. He's been very consistent, really, when not injured / 'injured'

Most people don't watch more than their favourite team occasionally and probably haven't seen Vince play since 2007, and just go by hearsay.

If they were talking about the "Richard Jefferson of old" dunking then I could agree.
itm

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8583 on: February 24, 2013, 08:52:35 PM »
'most people' aren't commentating though - Jeff Van Gundy and Mike Breen watch Vince all the freakin' time. It's disappointing from the supposed experts
vjj

benjipwns

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8584 on: February 24, 2013, 09:00:44 PM »
A funny thing is that Carter is actually dunking less often this season than any of the last three. (According to 82games anyhow.)
Most people don't watch more than their favourite team occasionally and probably haven't seen Vince play since 2007, and just go by hearsay.

If they were talking about the "Richard Jefferson of old" dunking then I could agree.
I think there's also an effect where people don't realize how few dunks a game players actually get. They may make up half the highlights of a game but that's often all the dunks in the course of a game. (And many of the rest are small putback dunks, etc.)

Factor in that Carter has seen his minutes drop from 40 a game to coming off the bench, etc. he may only get dunks every three or four games just from that while still dunking as often per minute.

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8585 on: February 24, 2013, 09:10:44 PM »
yeah - Bill Simmons had a fun bit where he talked about his kid expecting Blake to dunk on every possession. Just doesn't happen. You can lead the league with 2 dunks a game, and most of those will be unexciting.

I bet Vince will still be able to dunk at 50. Even older and tubbier, he still gets up pretty high, way higher than he needs to on an open dunk attempt. It's just not spectacular compared to young Vince or the guys in dunk contest now.
vjj

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8586 on: February 24, 2013, 09:31:12 PM »
shit, can't barkely even still dunk
püp

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8587 on: February 24, 2013, 09:52:23 PM »
I didn't know Rodney Rogers was paralyzed.  :-\

I guess I just missed the news when it happened.

benjipwns

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8588 on: February 24, 2013, 09:56:26 PM »
The most limiting factor is probably just that Carter doesn't drive or get out on breaks as often or as easily as he did in his younger days.

I didn't know Rodney Rogers was paralyzed.  :-\

I guess I just missed the news when it happened.
Yeah, that was a few years ago now.

I remember a story that after he retired he got a real job because he liked working with big construction equipment and trucks and stuff so much. He didn't need the money like many NBA players.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 10:00:00 PM by benjipwns »

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8589 on: February 24, 2013, 10:11:29 PM »
It was 2008. I think he started his own company rather than 'got a job' but yeah, it seemed to be something he enjoyed.

In other news about ex-players....did you all know Karl Malone impregnated a 13 yr old? Fuck that guy for real

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/080507
vjj

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8590 on: February 24, 2013, 10:21:56 PM »
Wow at Mailman

That guy was always telling young guys how to act too.  What a fucking hypocrite!

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8591 on: February 24, 2013, 10:27:14 PM »
I knew about the various out-of-wedlock kids he dumped so my opinion was not high to begin with but this news is a new low for him

Another meme that needs to die 'Russell Westbrook is not a true PG'

ok well what about the 60 or so PGs in the league who average less assists than Westbrook, they must all  be REALLY shit (Westbrook is 5th in the league at 9 a game)
vjj

benjipwns

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8592 on: February 24, 2013, 10:37:19 PM »
That one ties into the whole "you need a pass-first point guard to win" when until the 2008 Celtics and 2011 Mavericks basically every title team since 1990 had a scoring point guard. (And Isiah and Magic weren't exactly Rondo/Stockton types in terms of scoring.)

A lot of people have this vision about how basketball is SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED which is why Shaq wasn't really the best because he just "bullies" in the paint, etc.

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8593 on: February 24, 2013, 10:42:41 PM »
yup, I don't know why so many people separate a player's skills from his athletic abilities when judging his greatness

I've heard so many arguments that Lebron is not really a great basketball player just a great physical specimen.  Who gives a fuck if his superior performances are mostly due to athleticism and not skills? 

The only thing that matters is production.  Shaq with Duncan-like fundamentals but less power would still be a lesser player if he put up lesser numbers

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8594 on: February 24, 2013, 10:43:10 PM »
I don't know how you argue for Russ passing more unless you really think Thabo Sefolosha needs more shots. I mean, people like to hate on Westbrook because Durant is one of the most efficient ever, but Durant's usage rate is already historically high...the only way he could get more touches would be to run the point himself basically
vjj

Smooth Groove

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8595 on: February 24, 2013, 10:43:29 PM »
I knew about the various out-of-wedlock kids he dumped so my opinion was not high to begin with but this news is a new low for him

Another meme that needs to die 'Russell Westbrook is not a true PG'

ok well what about the 60 or so PGs in the league who average less assists than Westbrook, they must all  be REALLY shit (Westbrook is 5th in the league at 9 a game)

If you were OKC, knowing what you do now, would you have traded Westbrook or Harden?

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8596 on: February 24, 2013, 10:44:48 PM »
yup, I don't know why so many people separate a player's skills from his athletic abilities when judging his greatness

I've heard so many arguments that Lebron is not really a great basketball player just a great physical specimen.  Who gives a fuck if his superior performances are mostly due to athleticism and not skills? 

The only thing that matters is production.  Shaq with Duncan-like fundamentals but less power would still be a lesser player if he put up lesser numbers

unathletic white couch-dwellers like to judge according to their own perceived Protestant work/study ethic i guess...if you didn't learn it from a book it's not a real skill
vjj

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8597 on: February 24, 2013, 10:47:01 PM »
I knew about the various out-of-wedlock kids he dumped so my opinion was not high to begin with but this news is a new low for him

Another meme that needs to die 'Russell Westbrook is not a true PG'

ok well what about the 60 or so PGs in the league who average less assists than Westbrook, they must all  be REALLY shit (Westbrook is 5th in the league at 9 a game)

If you were OKC, knowing what you do now, would you have traded Westbrook or Harden?

Amnesty Perk, keep both. And i'd probably have tried to develop Harden as the primary ballhandler and Westbrook at the SG (his college position) from the jump (I stress that that is with hindsight!). Move KD to the 4 full time and start Collison.

That line-up CRUSHED historically. A whole season of it? Fuuuuuuu
vjj

benjipwns

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8598 on: February 24, 2013, 10:51:01 PM »
I've heard so many arguments that Lebron is not really a great basketball player just a great physical specimen.  Who gives a fuck if his superior performances are mostly due to athleticism and not skills? 
I had a guy on another forum argue that he was more talented than LeBron and pointed to the fact that LeBron doesn't shoot over 80% from the line as supporting evidence. He considered hitting 80% from the line as the minimum standard for being considered a talented basketball player.

He said something like the only reason he wasn't at LeBron's level is that he didn't have NBA size. Dude had posted other times that he was like 6-2, 180.

Same guy considers Chris Paul to be massively overrated.  :dizzy

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8599 on: February 24, 2013, 10:56:01 PM »
what height does he think Chris Paul is? :lol

LeBron doesn't actually have perfect shooting form, but as David Thorpe says, talent is when it goes in anyway.

I tend to think that the actual form doesn't matter so much as the form you use being consistent, and just having good AIM. See Joakim Noah, Kevin Martin etc. LeBron may have some weird mental thing going on where he can focus better in the flow of the game than on the FT line. It is something of an anomaly and you'd like it to be higher (the better to crush AWESOME-O's dreams) but then again it's not like his FT% is killing the team or anything
vjj

benjipwns

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8600 on: February 24, 2013, 11:18:34 PM »
Personally I tend to overfocus and overthink with free throws because everything's stopped and I can start going "a little off to the left if I try to adjust just a bit this way to..." and altering my form and followthrough and stance and everything.

There was one of those stories about how Shaq or Ben Wallace would hit 70-80% in practice and then in the games would overcorrect or overapply whatever "tweak" they had been learning and it'd throw everything off worse than it was before.

If LeBron started hitting 85+% at the line we'd be approaching one of those "why bother playing the games" type situations. Especially if this three point thing isn't a fluke.

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8601 on: February 24, 2013, 11:20:27 PM »
shaq never shot better than 80% from the line, but top-tier shaq was a fucking beast

that dude's a moron.  does he even consider centers as good players?
püp

Mandark

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8602 on: February 24, 2013, 11:36:29 PM »
A lot of people have this vision about how basketball is SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED which is why Shaq wasn't really the best because he just "bullies" in the paint, etc.

There's a strong tendency to turn team sports into a morality play.  The Right Way to play football is defense and a power running game, The Right Way to play baseball is pitching, defense, small ball, etc.  Granted, Larry Brown always used that phrase and a lot of that stuff was just plain right (don't turn the ball over or make sloppy turnovers on offense, stay focused and remember the gameplan on defense), but there's just a lot of crap from blowhard fans and sportswriters.

Inverting The Pyramid, a book about the evolution of soccer tactics, was pretty interesting for me because it showed over and over for the better part of a century how the sports cultures of different countries have freaked out about changes in the style of play from what they were used to or considered proper.  Plus it added this nationalistic dimension of everyone fretting that they were going to lose their unique footballing heritage on one hand, or freaking out that they'd be left behind if they couldn't adopt foreign, modern tactics.

So yeah, you don't need a pass-first PG or an offense that starts by dumping it into the low post.  The fact that there are multiple strategies and styles that are viable at the championship level is something that should be enjoyed by fans rather than humbugged.

benjipwns

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8603 on: February 24, 2013, 11:54:15 PM »
Inverting The Pyramid, a book about the evolution of soccer tactics, was pretty interesting for me because it showed over and over for the better part of a century how the sports cultures of different countries have freaked out about changes in the style of play from what they were used to or considered proper.  Plus it added this nationalistic dimension of everyone fretting that they were going to lose their unique footballing heritage on one hand, or freaking out that they'd be left behind if they couldn't adopt foreign, modern tactics.
I'll have to check that out, sounds pretty interesting even if one is not really a soccer fan.

Laker fans were certainly underrepresented in complaining about how Shaq played and do seem to be over-represented in complaints about LeBron (and this "positionless evolution" in general), as one example.

benjipwns

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8604 on: February 25, 2013, 12:11:48 AM »
It doesn't help that the format of most sports journalism, like political or standard journalism, often isn't conducive or open to much more than short clashes between those type of statements. Skip Bayless vs. Stephen A. Smith or PTI only really differs from something like Crossfire/Hardball/Hannity and Colmes in terms of its topics. Sports talk radio and conservative talk radio isn't really that different either. When you do have something like Mark Cuban asking Skip what the Mavericks actually did against LeBron it's Cuban who's violating the rules and norms.

Not to blame them necessarily, audiences don't really want anything different. Forums like RealGM prove that.

Like Cormac said, the real frustrating thing is when people who do know better fall back on it.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 12:13:48 AM by benjipwns »

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8605 on: February 25, 2013, 01:33:50 AM »
At least Shaq had post moves and great foot work. Unlike Dwight Howard
010

T-Short

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8606 on: February 25, 2013, 01:26:32 PM »
地平線

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8607 on: February 25, 2013, 01:52:55 PM »
Veteran leadership +17 bonus
Intelligence +11 bonus
Defense -6 
010

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8608 on: February 25, 2013, 01:53:47 PM »
So weird. I don't know why they keep bringing him back.

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8609 on: February 25, 2013, 02:14:40 PM »
as far as I remember he hit a few clutch threes last year in the playoffs
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TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8610 on: February 25, 2013, 03:56:28 PM »
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime

quite possibly the dumbest article I've read in a long time
püp

Mandark

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8611 on: February 25, 2013, 04:17:13 PM »
Teams are financially burdened by guaranteed deals for players who don't produce.  We need shorter contracts!

Teams have to deal with constant speculation about their stars leaving when their deals expire.  We need longer contracts!

Fix the system!

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8612 on: February 25, 2013, 04:38:58 PM »
010

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8613 on: February 25, 2013, 05:17:49 PM »
what the fuck

I can't even see the ball
püp

Beezy

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8614 on: February 25, 2013, 05:23:18 PM »
Why the fuck doesn't he do the dunk contest?

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8615 on: February 25, 2013, 09:24:09 PM »
i dunno really. Pre-ring, I can see why he'd want to avoid Vince Carter Syndrome and go the 'I'm only focused on a championship' route. But now it's at the point where he's starting to look like a pussy for not doing it.
vjj

pilonv1

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8616 on: February 25, 2013, 09:29:14 PM »
Inverting The Pyramid, a book about the evolution of soccer tactics, was pretty interesting for me because it showed over and over for the better part of a century how the sports cultures of different countries have freaked out about changes in the style of play from what they were used to or considered proper.  Plus it added this nationalistic dimension of everyone fretting that they were going to lose their unique footballing heritage on one hand, or freaking out that they'd be left behind if they couldn't adopt foreign, modern tactics.
I'll have to check that out, sounds pretty interesting even if one is not really a soccer fan.

I've got it as well, it's awesome. Even the first chapter alone where one team complains because the other team started passing rather than dribbling around them is amazing
itm

Steve Contra

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8617 on: February 25, 2013, 09:29:34 PM »
I wish the NBA could just say "fuck you, you're doing the dunk contest" to whoever they want.

I also think when it's all said and done one of the reasons Jordan will be more fondly than Lebron is his dunk wins.
vin

benjipwns

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8618 on: February 25, 2013, 09:52:23 PM »
23/22 with 2 steals and 2 blocks from Horford.

21 from JONAS JEREBKO! 16 in the fourth and a couple of dunks. Sweet behind the back pass.

benjipwns

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8619 on: February 26, 2013, 12:10:18 AM »
Quote
Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
Several sources believe the Jazz will keep Raja Bell simply so he doesn't sign with the Lakers. Utah and L.A. will compete for playoff spot.
Nobody wants to help L.A. A lot of people are enjoying their struggles. It proves the rich don't always get richer and super teams can fail.
For what it's worth, Raja Bell has been telling players and friends around the league that he'll join the Lakers. We'll see if it happens.

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/features/david_aldridge/02/25/morning-tip-trade-deadline-recap-kenneth-faried-stand-q-and-a-yao-ming/index.html
Quote
The Clips stood pat, but not by their basketball people's choice. L.A. and Washington had a done deal Wednesday night that would have sent forward Trevor Ariza to the Clippers in exchange for Caron Butler, giving L.A. a long, defensive-oriented body to throw at the likes of Kevin Durant in the playoffs. (Butler, who still has an offseason home in the D.C. area, and who was loved by the locals, didn't have a problem returning to a non-Arenas Wizards locker room. He'd have been welcomed back as a much-needed offensive option, according to sources.)

But sources indicated that Clippers owner Donald Sterling nixed the deal Thursday morning, not wanting to gamble on the team's chemistry being affected in any way down the stretch. My interpretation: we don't want to do anything that could, in any way, be held against us by assistant general manager Chris Paul this summer if we don't get far in the postseason.
Quote
By the way, here's what happened between Gregg Popovich and Howard during the All-Star Game, according to a source who witnessed it: in the third quarter, Pop called out a play, but Howard jacked up a corner three instead. Pop immediately turned to the bench and said 'get him the (bleep) out.' That was it, really. No extended swearing or shouting, just Pop being Pop.

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8620 on: February 26, 2013, 12:39:50 AM »
Pop :bow2

(btw that interview with Dwight after that 3 was one of the cringiest things I've ever seen)

I like that Chris Paul is running the Clippers, like a boss. If the alternative is Sterling, let him go for it. Bledsoe for KG would have been killer for them, and strategically it would have prevented OKC from getting KG for Perkins etc. But it turned out everybody basically stood down at the 11th hour
vjj

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8621 on: February 26, 2013, 01:24:36 PM »
010

Flannel Boy

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8622 on: February 26, 2013, 03:37:02 PM »
-few feet inside FT line
-clearly was next to the guy (where did his left foot go?)

Mandark

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8623 on: February 26, 2013, 03:56:35 PM »
Psh, look at that guy coasting on his athleticism.  Show some fundamentals!

Phoenix Dark

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8624 on: February 26, 2013, 04:04:51 PM »
Psh, look at that guy coasting on his athleticism.  Show some fundamentals, boy!

fixed for historical accuracy
010

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8625 on: February 26, 2013, 07:42:37 PM »
:lol
vjj

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8626 on: February 26, 2013, 11:55:10 PM »
Kings versus Heat was a pretty crazy game tonight. just got through watching it on league pass.

etiolate

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8627 on: February 27, 2013, 12:08:09 AM »
The Kings are nice when they give a fuck. Good to see all the players the Kings traded for get 12 minutes so far in three games.

Flannel Boy

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8628 on: February 27, 2013, 12:24:13 AM »
Dirk had 20 rebounds*?  :o And the Mavs lost?  :o

Mike James, PG   11   0-4
Vince Carter, SG   26   0-8   

Mike James is turrible.

*Andrea Bargnani has less than 20 rebounds in the entire month of February. In his defense, the month is only 28 days long.


Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8629 on: February 27, 2013, 12:55:36 AM »
heh, Blake THREW the lob tonight, to DeAndre Jordan. From the top of the key no less. :bow2

vjj

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8630 on: February 27, 2013, 01:38:44 PM »
btw Lebron's PER right now is at 31.94. If he finished the season there it would be the highest single season per on record.

TakingBackSunday

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8631 on: February 27, 2013, 01:42:21 PM »
 :troll :troll :troll :gladbron :gladbron :gladbron :troll :troll :troll
püp

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8632 on: February 27, 2013, 08:08:26 PM »
LP didn't have the Heat-Kings game from yesterday so catching up on it now. They showed the pre-game dunk highlights too, :o

Also, you have to wonder if the young Chris Andersen realized he'd grow up to be the world's first and only 6'10'' tattooed chicken.
vjj

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8633 on: February 27, 2013, 08:16:15 PM »
Another  mind-blowing LeBron factoid - his LOWEST FG% this season was 52. Meaning he essentially hasn't had an off-night all season. May hit 64% for Feb, which would be the first time anyone has done that for a month
vjj

Flannel Boy

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8634 on: February 27, 2013, 08:49:27 PM »
 :troll--[stats, stats, stats, stats]

 :childplease--[rings, rings, rings, rings, rings]

 :orly

 

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8635 on: February 27, 2013, 10:25:50 PM »
You probably should turn on ESPN to the Knicks warriors game. Curry is going off.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 10:35:39 PM by Stoney Mason »

Cormacaroni

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8636 on: February 27, 2013, 10:29:12 PM »
will queue up the whole game next, cheers
vjj

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8637 on: February 27, 2013, 10:33:25 PM »
Insane. Might be the best shooting game I've ever seen from a player.

Stoney Mason

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8638 on: February 27, 2013, 10:42:24 PM »
Crazy game

Beezy

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Re: The NBA thread
« Reply #8639 on: February 27, 2013, 10:48:51 PM »
Holy hell that game was amazing. Now me and my parents regret not going.