The NBA thread

[Stoney Mason]

I guess the comparison would be the Celtics who have essentially been living off of moral victories the last few years by performing a lot better in the playoffs than they did during the regular season. There are so many differences though in their situations where its not gonna happen like it did for the Celtics.

[TakingBackSunday]

Celtics would win against the Lakers in a 7 game series

[Mandark]

So they should be tanking for... Mason Plumlee?

[Stoney Mason]

Duders.

I understand the how the draft warps incentives for lousy teams in American pro sports.

But surely rooting for one's team to win is still the default, expected behavior of a fanbase, that doesn't need to be explained as a particular neurosis or false consciousness?  Especially for a ~.500 team looking to re-sign a veteran star with an expiring contract, ahead of a weak draft?  I mean, they want their team to win.  I want my team to win.  You want your team to win.  We all might be crazy, but not for that.

I want my team to win generally speaking but there are certainly situations where I see the handwriting on the wall and prefer a different outcome. I do believe in the idea of moral victories in certain situation. I guess I just don't see the moral victory here. And there are absolutely times where I wish for my team to lose. I'm still a small magic fan and I wish that team went 0-82 or whatever guarantees them a chance for the top pick. I actually was happy they started losing a lot more after they started off the season performing a lot better than they were supposed to.

So they should be tanking for... Mason Plumlee?

I'm not trying to tell anybody else how to root. I'm just saying how I root I guess. Not a big deal so I've posted all I really want to on it.

[Smooth Groove]

plus, a million bucks or so in pure profit from every playoff game played at Staples

would be totally worth the Lakers making it if we got Clips vs Lakers though

yup, huge deal for Lakers management if not the fans

Jerry Buss' kids are gonna pay a huge estate tax which is also why people are betting on no coaching change for awhile

[Mandark]

Stoney: Yeah, but in this particular case are Lakers fans particularly irrational for rooting for their team?  What's the cost/benefit here?

[TakingBackSunday]

who cares, bottom line is lakers suck

[benjipwns]

You want your team to win.

Not yet.

Andre needs a backcourt Robin to go with his frontcourt Nightwing.

[Stoney Mason]

Stoney: Yeah, but in this particular case are Lakers fans particularly irrational for rooting for their team?  What's the cost/benefit here?

I get rooting for a playoff spot when it doesn't matter in some cases. Like for a young team. And truly for the Lakers now it doesn't matter unless they lose every single game from here on out because essentially the Lakers have turned it around and climbed back into contention. So yeah If I'm being strictly logical then yeah I get it because it doesn't matter if your draft pick is the 16th pick or the 17th pick that late. (Hell I honestly don't even know if the Lakers have their pick for the draft) A couple of weeks ago though the picture wasn't quite as rosy and there was a real chance they could have flamed out in a big way. I think the flameout would have been better for them.

This is such a lost season for the Lakers that from a fan perspective I personally wouldn't get one iota of enjoyment out of a playoff game versus not making it. I guess it depends on if a fan really thought the Lakers were dangerous as an 8th seed. I've lost that fear of them though as I think most of the league has.

[Smooth Groove]

 Lakers have no 1st round pick this year though

[Stoney Mason]

Lakers have no 1st round pick this year though

Yeah I thought about that during the last post which makes the whole thing moot. 

[benjipwns]

Nah, Mitch is going to sign-and-trade Antawn Jamison for two top five picks. And they'll bring in Tyreke to apprentice under Kobe. Sign Korver and Ben Gordon for some outside shooting. Shit will be on lock down next year.

[Mandark]

Hell, even if they did they were never in the bottom 10 in records, plus it's a crappy draft, plus their offseason hinges on bringing back Dwight (and crossing their fingers that he gets fully healthy and this isn't the new normal).  Even a very marginal advantage in keeping him around has to outweigh moving up a couple of spots in the middle of what's meant to be an unimpressive draft class.

Rooting for a full-on flaming wreck of a season when you know the team's bad and there's a Tim Duncan/LeBron waiting for you makes sense, but you can absolutely be too quick to tank.

[etiolate]

I thought we were just mocking how fairweather Laker fans are that one defined their own culture by it with a sense of pride.

[Mandark]

benji: The biggest Lakers fan I know IRL is convinced that 1) Dwight Howard is a complete worthless bum, and 2) the Lakers should be able to get either Kyrie Irving or both Tyreke Evans and DeMarcus Cousins for him.

Cause you know, Cleveland and Sacreattle would both be pretty confident on getting him signed to an extension.

[Stoney Mason]

I thought we were just mocking how fairweather Laker fans are that one defined their own culture by it with a sense of pride.

I was mocking the draft thing along with the recent resurgence of Lakers pride in them being a dark horse as they got closer to that 8th spot in the past week or so.

[Phoenix Dark]

Lakers should have tanked to draft Trey Burke 

[Mandark]

Hey, as deterministic as the NBA playoffs are compared to the other pro leagues, no shame in trying to sneak in and hoping for a series of fortunate blown ligaments.

[benjipwns]

benji: The biggest Lakers fan I know IRL is convinced that 1) Dwight Howard is a complete worthless bum, and 2) the Lakers should be able to get either Kyrie Irving or both Tyreke Evans and DeMarcus Cousins for him.

Cause you know, Cleveland and Sacreattle would both be pretty confident on getting him signed to an extension.

One guy I know lusted after Dwight for two years to replace the "shitty useless Gasol" and now he just wants the Lakers to not even bother signing him but hopes Mitch can trick somebody into a deal like that.

I still don't know why Laker fans think Mitch is some genius, he's basically been handed all four of his big trades (including the Paul deal) and in all his years at the helm has never shown the ability to put together a decent bench. Kobe, Shaq and Malone basically were the leads and did the work on their big free agent signings. The rest of them were things like Samaki Walker.

[Mandark]

Their consistent lack of a bench is almost impressive.  In Kupchak's defense, the ability to spot a sucker can be a huge advantage for an NBA personnel man.  See Robinson, Thomas.

[Smooth Groove]

But Lakers fans don't think  Mitch is a genius

They've been killing him and Jim Buss since the Lakers lost to Dallas in the playoffs

Mandark is dead on about Dwight, current Lakers fans have this insane propensity to blame everyone but Kobe

[TakingBackSunday]

the fact that this media tongue-ing as of late in regards to his apparent youthful play is going on just keeps on perpetuating the notion that none of this is kobe's fault.

but its fuckball that mostly got them here, and funnily enough, its going to be fuckball that gets them the 8th seed.

[TakingBackSunday]

Why the fuck would you root for the team to not make the playoffs? Even getting swept in the first round is better than not making it at all. Besides that, they lost a winnable game tonight without Gasol, and on the road, on a night when Westbrook went off. Who says it's a four game sweep? It could go longer than that. If they manage to draw San Antonio instead, they might even advance a round.

I can't believe anyone would seriously suggest that fans should prefer to see their team finish 9th instead of 8th. Fuck that.

dude you can't honestly believe this.

[Smooth Groove]

Refs make it much more winnable than it really was

How often is the away team going to shoot 16 more fts than the home team?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

unless, of course, you're playing with this guy  :crazybron

[close]

[Stoney Mason]

I can't believe anyone would seriously suggest that fans should prefer to see their team finish 9th instead of 8th. Fuck that.

Actually if you read my later posts you would have seen that I didn't say that.

As far as the rest you're entitled to your opinion. I just don't have the same delusion as you that the Lakers are any good this season or that they've been "unlucky" as you keep insisting throughout the thread.

[Stoney Mason]

A sub-.500 record with a positive points differential is the very definition of unlucky. Just as Golden State's record is exactly the opposite. It means a disproportionate percentage of late-game lucky breaks are going your way.

The results will speak for themselves. The Lakers will either scrabble to a 8th place finish to get the crap kicked out of them in the first round or they will miss the playoffs. Neither result is good for all the expectations they had. When the book is written on this season, "unlucky" will be nowhere to be found.

[Mandark]

Spurs are +9 a game.

[TakingBackSunday]

I was 12 when I made that user name everywhere

are you going to make fun of a 12 year old

[Cormacaroni]

I don't know that we learned anything much from today. The Lakers have been playing better than an 8th seed but nobody was expecting them to beat OKC at this point.

[Smooth Groove]

I don't know that we learned anything much from today. The Lakers have been playing better than an 8th seed but nobody was expecting them to beat OKC at this point.

at least one guy did

[Cormacaroni]

there's no shame in that Smooth, you are an Angeleno to the core after all

[Smooth Groove]

I texted "Lakers #1" to all my Lakers loving friends today  :crazybron

[Stoney Mason]

I think most of it depends on how Dwight Howard is. If this is the real dwight howard the Lakers are going to be getting then they are in trouble. If Dwight Howard is the Dwight Howard of old next season then they are a different team even though I still don't like a lot of the aging pieces and how they fit together. Just him being really good on defense would be a huge step up though.

[Smooth Groove]

Lakers got too many selfish players that just want more buckets

other than Dwight and Pau, nobody complains about D'antoni system because it gets them more pts/game

but as seen today, that run and gun style obviously won't get them far with the current personnel

[Stoney Mason]

Is there any indication that he'd stick around, though?

Most people believe he will. For a myriad of reasons. Money and him being a knucklehead leading the charge at the moment.

Dwight had back surgery in the off-season or close to it and that's why most people assume he's not quite right. The conventional wisdom is to assume he will be able to recover this off-season and return to his form of old next season although some players have never quite recovered from back surgery to be the player they were.
 

[Cormacaroni]

It doesn't make sense for anyone else to be the focus though, unless you really want to pander to Dwight's ego. Pau has been horrible, Nash is almost my age...

[Mandark]

For all the talk about pieces not fitting together, the Lakers have a good offense.  Kobe isn't killing them and I don't think you could get much better results trying to run things differently with the personnel they've got.  The bigger problem is that they need peak Dwight Howard to cover for the age and defensive shortcomings of the rest of the roster.  Having Ariza rather than Artest at this point would probably help them, but they did win a ring after that switch, so you can't blame them.

[Cormacaroni]

slow-ass perimeter d, and a big man that can't show and recover like he used to. It'll likely get better next season as Dwight recovers but then the old guys will be a year older. They really need a couple of defensive guards off the bench but despite all the supposed charms of LA life, they never seem to get any bargains there.

[TakingBackSunday]

Good win celtics

[Smooth Groove]

Lakers making Hornets look like Suns during Nash's MVP seasons

Who won't the Lakers slow things down?

[Cormacaroni]

Awesome sequence by the Celtics against the Pacers at the end. We need sulky Rondo reaction shots though

[Stoney Mason]

Streak in jeopardy. Magic giving the heat all they can handle.

[Stoney Mason]

Miami Steals it. They were fucking awful in the second half.

[Mandark]

Stoney, how many of your posts have been carping about the Heat during their 16 game win streak?

[Stoney Mason]

Stoney, how many of your posts have been carping about the Heat during their 16 game win streak?

None at all. Lebron had a terrible game a few games back which I mentioned. Only mentioned tonight because they almost got beat at home when they had a big lead in the 3rd quarter.

[Stoney Mason]

Hornets collapsing big time right now. Getting outscored in the 4th quarter 27-9.

[Stoney Mason]

As big a choke as I've seen from a team in awhile here with the hornets. Not to take anything away from the Lakers who have played well here in the 4th.

[Stoney Mason]

Stunning. Lakers were down 25 at one point in the game. Lakers go on 20-0 run over the last 6 minutes of the game. Outscore the hornets 33-9 in the 4th quarter.

Kobe finishes with 42 pts. 12 assists. 7 rebounds.

I'll go ahead and say they will catch the Jazz for the 8th spot at least.

[Stoney Mason]

Add J.J. Redick to the list of former teammates who were none too pleased with Dwight Howard's recent comments about his Orlando Magic teammates.

This week Howard told KCAL, a Los Angeles CBS affiliate, that "My team in Orlando was a team full of people who nobody wanted, and I was the leader, and I led that team with a smile on my face."

That characterization of a Magic team that went to the NBA Finals in 2009 hasn't sat well with his former teammates.

"I'm not surprised by it," Redick told ESPNLosAngeles.com Wednesday evening before his Milwaukee Bucks played the Los Angeles Clippers. "I would be more surprised when Dwight starts taking responsibility. That would be the most negative thing I can say, but that's the truth.

"You can't take all the credit and not accept any of the blame."

In the two days since the interview aired, former teammates Jameer Nelson told the Orlando Sentinel that he was "disappointed" in Howard's comments while Rashard Lewis said Howard's comments were "disrespectful."

"It's disrespectful more than anything. We helped Dwight become the player he was," Lewis, now a member of the Miami Heat, told the Sentinel on Wednesday.

"We made a good run. Hell, look at those (conference and division) banners hanging in the stands. They don't say Dwight Howard on them..."

Nelson, who was once one of Howard's closest friends on the Magic, said he was disappointed in Howard's comments.

At some point, when are you a gonna as a man, when are you going to take ownership and stay out of the media in a professional manner," Nelson told the Sentinel.

"I would be less of a man to comment on certain things that people comment on about me and my teammates. We had a great run as a group, as core guys, and he was a part of it (reaching the 2009 Finals) and for him to say things about anybody in a negative manner, that's up to him.

"That's his opinion. If that's how he feels, that's how he feels."

I actually agree with Howard but yeah he should have kept his mouth shut. It only adds fuel to the fire.

[Mandark]

Yeah.  He may have a point, but he's being shitty for no real reason.

So many lulz at Rashard Lewis for taking even partial credit for turning Howard into the player he became, though.

[Cormacaroni]

watched two games today, both came down to the final play, Celtics and the LeBrons both win

[BlackMage]

[Cormacaroni]

haha, exactly the clip i was looking for on League Pass, good job

[Stoney Mason]

Fun little interview with Parker.

[TakingBackSunday]

Yeah, that was LeBron-esque from Kobe tonight.

Edit: before BrandNew starts to rage, I'll revise that statement. Almost LeBron-esque.

I ain't hatin', Kobe was amazing last night.  Played much better than Bron.

[Smooth Groove]

[Cormacaroni]

Amazing game from Kobe, will give him old man dap for that

[Beezy]

Knicks without Melo got the lead on OKC going into the 4th. JR is on fire.

[Stoney Mason]

Yeah, it just started the 4th quarter if anybody wants to start watching now.

[TakingBackSunday]

jr smith is infuriating to watch