The NBA thread

[ToxicAdam]

My NBA knowledge is weak, but isn't that a foul?

[etiolate]

Only to his manhood.

[Smooth Groove]

Looks like he just missed the dunk and then some incidental contact

[etiolate]

Derrick Williams, PF     35    12-16   3-5   4-6   1   4   5   0   5   0   2   2   +22   31
DeMarcus Cousins, C   36   10-17   0-0   12-14   4   15   19   3   3   1   9   2   +31   32

[Mandark]

Unless I'm wrong, the body contact makes that a foul.  Sometimes it seems like plays don't get called cause they're too awesome, and I'm mostly okay with that.

The point about the Rudy trade is that the Raptors wanted to be rid of him (and from multiple reports had basically offered him to everyone), and the team taking on salary in a dump trade should get something to offset taking on a lousy contract.  Ujiri wasn't going to send a first rounder in this year's draft, but you can at least hold out for a second rounder or super-protected first to be conveyed in the future.

I think you're right about ownership wanting to have a good team in place for the new arena, and I think they're in the same boat as the Cavs, Wiz, Pistons, and maybe some other teams that are trying to accelerate their timetable for winning for whatever reasons (impatient owners, fan fatigue), even if they might be better served by being patient and stockpiling assets where they can pick them up.  Which is why everyone liked the Williams acquisition.  Trading for Rudy isn't the worst thing ever, but I don't think it's a good use for next year's cap space or even the best deal they could have struck to bring him to Sacramento.

[etiolate]

I just feel its harder to stockpile assets when you're dealing with the situation the Maloofs left behind. The Kings were a team that had very little trade assets. It's Isaiah Thomas, Salmons expiring, and Ben McLemore. They didn't have much cap space to wiggle with or absorb contracts. You're right in that they could have maybe flipped players for the sole purpose of turning themselves into a facilitator, but I am not sure that fit the situation they are in. The Kings have been tanking for years without success. (Wizards the same.) At a certain point, you're no longer tanking to get better. You're just a miserable team.

[Phoenix Dark]

Derrick Williams, PF     35    12-16   3-5   4-6   1   4   5   0   5   0   2   2   +22   31
DeMarcus Cousins, C   36   10-17   0-0   12-14   4   15   19   3   3   1   9   2   +31   32

looked up the boxcore and lo and behold, Jimmer Fredette is still in the league?

[etiolate]

Beno Udrih and Biyombo for John Salmons and Jimmer Fredette in the draft spot where Kawhi Leonard was waiting to be taken.

One of Petrie's worst trades, apparently prompted by Westphal saying he wanted Salmons and the Maloofs wanting to sell tickets. *shudder*

[Stoney Mason]

Jason Kidd thought he could make it work. Which, in itself, was the first sign of trouble.
The whole business of Kidd becoming the Nets' coach is built on assertions, assumptions, hopes. But it took Kidd exactly a month on the job before he abandoned the Larry Bird CEO model of coaching and threw aside the guy he said he had to have to make the transition work -- former assistant Lawrence Frank.

Frank was "reassigned" to preparing "reports" for Kidd and the remaining members of the coaching staff. What those reports could possibly involve is not currently being shared with the outside world (leading to this hilarious and profane parody), and is merely a cover for the inevitable financial settlement that will end Frank's stay with the team.
"We're a lot closer than the public thinks," Kidd said early Thursday night.
Then the Nets lost on national television to the Knicks by 30 at home.
"We feel we have enough talent to win," Kidd said afterward. "But we're coming up short."
Owner Mikhail Prokhorov has made it clear that, this season of all seasons, spending on the team is not a problem. But $6 million for a guy who prepares "reports?" Even The Billionaire Russian has to look at his spreadsheets and shake his head.
What is remarkable is that anyone in the Nets' organization would be surprised that this is how things would turn out.
This team, of all teams -- that employed Frank as its coach at Jason Kidd's request after firing Byron Scott in 2004 -- knew that whatever type personality is above "Type A," that was Frank. He is obsessed with the game, as anyone who had the stones to go from student manager at Indiana University to NBA coach must assuredly be. At every level, Frank is a tinkerer, a pleader, an irritant, a demander, the same kind of irritant that the Van Gundys are. He made players better, just as they did.
Kidd brought Frank in to run the defense, draw up plays, be the coaches' voice at practice. And then, Frank did that. And Kidd was taken aback.
Frog, meet scorpion.

"The assistant's job is to stand up and call coverages," an NBA coaching source said last week. "Every time the offense comes down and calls a play, my defensive coach stands up and yells 'four down!' or 'get to the side.' Jason didn't like it. He thought Lawrence was coaching the team."
Well, he was. That's why he got a six-year deal. Just like Rick Carlisle was coaching the Pacers, more or less, every day that Bird had the title. And that's not written to demean either man. Bird was the big picture guy; Carlisle (and the late Dick Harter, who ran Indiana's defense) the detail man. There was nothing wrong with that arrangement.
The reason Brooklyn brought Frank in in the first place -- and paid him that $6 million -- was because Kidd acknowledged he needed help as he broke into the coaching game. Brooklyn waited weeks for Frank, who spent much of the summer with his ailing wife, to decide if he could be away from his family for the long stretches that make up the life of an NBA coach.
To say ego was not involved here is to say water is not wet. Frank's way -- "passive-aggressive undermining," as another coaching source put it last week -- is grating. Certainly, the new contract gave him a kind of cache -- diplomatic immunity for the basketball set -- above the other assistants. If he's the coach, you have to accept it -- it's what he's saying, not how he's saying it, and so on. (The other assistants have to accept it, too, by the way, as none of them were getting $1 million a year.)
But Kidd didn't have to accept it. He was no longer a player, and Frank was no longer his coach.
Kidd tried, gradually at first, to start putting his own imprint on the team. He would be, a member of the organization said last week, direct and honest with players in film sessions, going over things one-on-one with players -- "that's a bad shot, and here's why. That's losing basketball, and here's why," the source said. He tried to point out that he did know a couple of things about defense based on his career as a player (whether he specifically mentioned his four first-team all-NBA defensive team selections is unknown), and that he had ideas that were different from Frank's.
But Frank "wouldn't stop talking," the second coaching source countered.
And several outlets have reported Frank was angered that Kidd chose assistant Joe Prunty instead of him to coach the team in his absence while Kidd served his DUI suspension at the start of the regular season.
The denouement came in the now well-reported blowup Kidd had with Frank, where Kidd, according to a source, told Frank: "Sit the (bleep) down! I'm the coach of this (13-letter word) team! When you're on the bench, don't (bleeping) move!"
Frank did as he was told. Other coaches playing the Nets thought he was ill, he was so quiet during recent games.
In the few days since he left, Kidd has tinkered with the Nets' pick-and-roll defense, trying desperately to find coverages that will aid Brooklyn's horrible defense against the 3-pointer. The Nets are the NBA's worst team at guarding 3-pointers, allowing opponents to shoot 41 percent from there.
"We have a lot of guys coming in, and we're asking a lot of them," Garnett said Thursday. "We have a new system. We're changing things on the fly. Jason is putting in a lot of new stuff since Lawrence left. And not only that, guys who usually aren't playing a lot of minutes and not having a lot of responsibility are playing big minutes, and asking a lot of those minutes. We don't have Kirilenko, we don't have Paul, we don't have Deron. We just got Brook back. Chemistry doesn't just snap where you waive the magic wand, and voila. Those things play a big part into this. I'm a firm believer that when we're whole, and we have our team full throttle, that's what I believe in."
The Nets, of course, point immediately to their injuries as a far bigger reason for their dreadful record than the rancor between their coach and his former assistant. Tyshawn Taylor, starting at the point for the injured Deron Williams, was supposed to be playing most of this season for the Nets' Development League team in Springfield.
Shaun Livingston was supposed to be playing around 10 minutes a night, not 24. (The Nets had to put him back on the bench instead of starting, for fear that his surgically-repaired knee wasn't supposed to be taking this kind of pounding this early.) Pierce broke his hand. Andrei Kirilenko, who was going to have a major role this season, hasn't been himself most of the season with a bad back. Brook Lopez, the team's best player, has been in and out of the lineup with a sprained ankle.
But Lopez didn't hide behind the injuries, saying the chemistry the team has should compensate for lost players -- and this season is even more bizarre than the one where the Nets went 12-70 early in his career.
And the Nets remain behind Kidd, believing the rest of their assistants are more than capable enough of giving him a hand. Prunty worked for Gregg Popovich and is the head coach of Great Britain's Olympic team. John Welch was a trusted lieutenant for former Nuggets coach George Karl in Denver.
"It's not like these guys are novices, like Lawrence is the only one that can give knowledge to Jason," one source said.
But you wonder how Kidd can grow.
I asked him after Thursday's rout how he evaluates himself.
"Well, I think you get evaluated by being whole," he said. "It starts there. And once that occurs, then you're evaluated. And that's as simple as it gets. When you look at the guys, the guys are doing everything. But we have to protect the 3-point line and we have to rebound. Those are the two areas that's hurt us all season."
I am not sure he answered the question. It is not the only question that remains unanswered along Atlantic Avenue.

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/features/david_aldridge/12/09/morning-tip-troubles-with-eastern-conference-fallout-from-jason-kidd-and-lawrence-frank-kobe-bryants-return-andre-drummond-qa/index.html

[Flannel Boy]

Dirk's PER is at 23.80, slightly above his career average. Carter's PER is at 12.7, a career low (why does he get so much fucking PT). Both players were drafted in the same year!

98 draft class:
1    LAC    Michael Olowokandi: Retired
2    VAN    Mike Bibby: Retired
3    DEN    Raef LaFrentz: Retired
4    TOR    Antawn Jamison: 8.1 PER
5    GSW    Vince Carter: 12.7 PER
6    DAL    Robert Traylor: Dead
7    SAC    Jason Williams: Retired
8    PHI    Larry Hughes: Retired
9    MIL    Dirk Nowitzki: Ballin' Übermensch
10    BOS    Paul Pierce: 12.3 PER
11    DET    Bonzi Wells: Retired
12    ORL    Michael Doleac: Retired
13    ORL    Keon Clark: Retired to a prison cell.

[etiolate]

Vince is terrible. He's doing the old man game thing and it's sad. Dirk will be valuable for years to come due to his size and skill set. At the end of his career, he can still do the Sam Perkins role.

Also, just for you:

[Stoney Mason]

http://firstrowus1.eu/watch/226754/2/watch-indiana-pacers-vs-miami-heat.html

Stream for Pacers Heat if you don't have NBA TV.

[Smooth Groove]

That was a great spin by Lebron but even better recovery by Paul George

Too bad, it looked like LeBron was gonna do something spectacular

[Smooth Groove]

Heat has ridiculously bad interior D

3peat gonna be hard without trading for a decent big

[benjipwns]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/friends-family-say-derrick-rose-hasnt-said-single,34793/

CHICAGO—Close friends and family confirmed Tuesday that Bulls point guard Derrick Rose has remained completely silent for the past 17 days, failing to utter one word since learning that the torn meniscus in his right knee will cause him to miss a second consecutive season. “Derrick just sits there; he hasn’t even moved,” said Rose’s friend Andre Hamlin, adding that the three-time All-Star spends most of the day on the couch staring at the ceiling. “Yesterday he inhaled deeply like he was about to say something, but then he just sighed and changed the TV channel he was watching.” Rose’s mother, Brenda, reportedly visited over the weekend and told her pajama-wearing son to remain positive in the face of adversity—an encouragement sources said the 2011 NBA MVP responded to with a shrug.

[benjipwns]

[Stoney Mason]

Nice win for the Pacers. I kinda just wish we could just skip ahead to the conference finals.

[Phoenix Dark]

NBA seasons should be 62 games at the most; 82 is ridiculous. These games don't matter.

[Stoney Mason]

[Smooth Groove]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/10115418/mike-dantoni-proud-los-angeles-lakers-efforts-kobe-bryant-return

[Stoney Mason]

 

[etiolate]

dat clipper broadcast

Kings fans are really excited for Rudy Gay. I think that explains how bad things have been here.

Now for a future clip on Shaqtin A Fool.

[TakingBackSunday]

I see your Jordan fail and raise you a Stat fail



stat pls

[CajoleJuice]

jesus christ

[Beezy]

 

[TakingBackSunday]

the knicks are also apparently gonna trade away a first rounder for Kyle Lowry

DOLAN WTF

[CajoleJuice]

remember jeremy lin?

fuck

[Beezy]

We have first rounders left?

[benjipwns]

What's the "Dolan Rule" going to be?

[Smooth Groove]

That Howard and Parsons staredown was hilarious.  Hope someone gifs it. 

[Phoenix Dark]

Watched the final 8 minutes of the Houston/Portland game. Dwight Howard was whipping out some post moves 

[Smooth Groove]

But Robin Lopez basically played Dwight even if you consider efficiency and touches. 

[benjipwns]

I love that Ujiri tried to use the Nets as leverage against the Knicks again. 

Knicks owner Jim Dolan is sensitive to the public perception that Toronto general manger Masai Ujiri bamboozled New York in the Carmelo Anthony trade, and the chance of getting panned for giving up too much in a deal for Lowry has become a hurdle in these talks, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Local radio is saying the Cav's are trying to move Waiters and Varejo to Houston....wtf would we get back? I don't want Asik and his pouting ass nor do I want anybody else on that roster.


Move a draft pick and Varejo for Deng already, assholes.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Vince is terrible. He's doing the old man game thing and it's sad. Dirk will be valuable for years to come due to his size and skill set. At the end of his career, he can still do the Sam Perkins role.

Also, just for you:

It's so sad to see Vince trying to hold on....time to let it go man, you were great.

[TakingBackSunday]

Hmm.  Sideshow Bob is not having a good season, certainly not at the efficiency he was at last year.  Trading him for Asik is a good pick up I think, although I don't know if I'd want him starting alongside Bynum.  Maybe you can get Brewer?  Montejunas?

[Stoney Mason]

Watched the final 8 minutes of the Houston/Portland game. Dwight Howard was whipping out some post moves 

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Hmm.  Sideshow Bob is not having a good season, certainly not at the efficiency he was at last year.  Trading him for Asik is a good pick up I think, although I don't know if I'd want him starting alongside Bynum.  Maybe you can get Brewer?  Montejunas?

I know most people are going to disagree with this but I really think Kyrie's ego has gone stellar and he's hurting this team. I grow tired of wasting 160 dollars a game in tickets to see him dribble the ball for 20 seconds then chuck up leaning jumpshots while Bynum is standing is the post being guarded by a power forward pretending to be a center in the east.

It's no secret every issue, both internally and on the court, has to do with Kyrie. He needs to grow the fuck up and stop acting like my 6 year old.

[ToxicAdam]

Personally, I don't see why Houston would make that deal. Asik should be worth more than that and he's a nice insurance policy in case Dwight goes down (and he probably will).

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Personally, I don't see why Houston would make that deal. Asik should be worth more than that and he's a nice insurance policy in case Dwight goes down (and he probably will).

Are you fucking crazy? Asik needs to go. At this point they'd probably trade him for the rights to the 5th best player on the Cuban national team if they could.

[Mandark]

No, he's not "fucking crazy."  Asik's a very, very good interior defender and Houston clearly expects value in return.  If anything, they've been asking for too much.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

No, he's not "fucking crazy."  Asik's a very, very good interior defender and Houston clearly expects value in return.  If anything, they've been asking for too much.

It's not a talent thing, it's a team thing. No way I'd want that cancer anywhere near the Cav's. Why? Because hurt Bynum is still a better player than him and I don't want a sulking asshole on my bench.

[Mandark]

That's fine, but you're not running the Rockets.


edit: Though if we're talking about how important it is to keep sulking assholes off your team, surely that has to be held against Bynum as well?

[Am_I_Anonymous]

That's fine, but you're not running the Rockets.


edit: Though if we're talking about how important it is to keep sulking assholes off your team, surely that has to be held against Bynum as well?

So far he's doing okay. I think Andrew knows this is truly his last shot. If anything Kyrie is the douche right now....but at some point even I have to admit Talent>Attitude


Edit: I sit 2 rows from the court behind the Cav's bench....I actually heard Bynum say "I need to do more Mike, I'll be more aggressive" during a game. I about passed out. In addition I heard Andrew tell Kyrie to "act like a star" about 100 times this season.

[Stoney Mason]

Heat Fans Growing Frustrated With Team’s Lack Of NBA Titles Since June
SPORTS NEWS • Sports • NBA Basketball • ISSUE 49•50 • Dec 13, 2013


MIAMI—Saying that the organization must make some serious changes in order to do justice to its impassioned fan base, supporters of the Miami Heat told reporters Friday that they are becoming increasingly frustrated with the team’s failure to win a single championship since June.

“For this team to have gone a full six months without a victory in the NBA Finals is simply unacceptable,” said self-proclaimed Heat diehard Liam Sikes, noting that the team has played close to a dozen games this season without having won it all even once. “What’s it going to take for these guys to wake up and return the hardware to Miami where it belongs? A title drought like this one is just plain embarrassing.”

“We deserve better,” Sikes added.

The team’s attentive, devoted, and well-informed fans, who characterized the Heat’s recent failures as the most shameful in the franchise’s illustrious 70-year history, complained that the organization had lost the winning spirit that made its memorable 2010 championship run possible. Many of these same fans ascribed the team’s decline to a lack of motivation, noting that it took the Heat until October to even play their first game this season.

Others reportedly condemned the leadership shortcomings of head coach Derek Spoelstra.

However, a faction of Heat supporters placed the blame on the team’s current roster, suggesting that perhaps a personnel upgrade is needed to give the team a chance at winning a third title.

“We need to sign LeBron,” said Miami resident Omar Santos, noting that current starters Shaquille O’Neal, Antoine Walker, and Pat Riley “aren’t getting the job done.” “Or if we can’t get LeBron, we should at least try to land a solid power center that can play a full 60 minutes every night. These nobodies they’ve got right now just aren’t cutting it.”

“Everyone’s going to have to bear down and make some serious baskets if they want to win another cup,” Santos continued.

While some Heat fans suggested that the team could perhaps regain some of its former glory were it to build a new stadium, all were adamant that nothing short of a championship victory would suffice, indicating that the team would have to win at least one title within the next few weeks in order to keep their supporters interested.

“We cheer their names, buy their jerseys, and take photos of ourselves at the games, and for what?” said Heat season ticket holder Isaiah Stroud, noting that the two periods he watched of the team’s Tuesday non-title-winning matchup against the Atlanta Pacers were “disgraceful.” “If they want to keep us around, they’re going to have to show us another NDA Championship. It’s just that simple.”

“You know, if this keeps up, I’ll start following the Orlando Magic, just you watch,” Stroud continued. “Now there’s a team that cares about winning.”

 

[Phoenix Dark]

Imagine Dwight Howard in like 10 years, when he has 11 kids out of wedlock and is paying child support out the ass. Better take some broadcasting classes now, breh.

[TakingBackSunday]

if they were in the east they'd be a 5 seed

[Stoney Mason]

Random post of something worth watching.

[Phoenix Dark]

Watched some Pistons. Josh Smith, 3-13 from the field. Why anyone would pay this guy to play on the perimeter is beyond me. But hey, that's Joe Dumars for you.

I'd trade Greg Monroe and move Smith to the 4; I'd rather trade Smith but who would trade anything for him?

[Stoney Mason]

http://regressing.deadspin.com/josh-smith-and-the-deeply-constipated-offense-of-the-de-1481488296

[Stoney Mason]

"The fact that I'm not getting the ball in the post affects directly my aggressiveness," he said. "When I'm not getting the ball where I want to, where I'm most effective, where I can bang guys and utilize my skill, that affects my aggressiveness and overall intensity.

"This year hasn't been ideal, certain things are not ideal for me, but that's not going to change any time soon."

"It's also a nice excuse not to play hard," D'Antoni said. "That's a classic, 'I don't know what I'm supposed to do.' Well, you don't have trouble getting up to the paystub line. You know what you need to do to get your check. You know what to do. They will. They'll figure it out.

"That's one thing. They don't want to do it that way. I understand that. That's when you have to accept it or not. But there's no reason not to play hard."

Now there's a good player/coach relationship!

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/hoya2apacer/status/411701550294118401

[ToxicAdam]

The East is truly amazing. Every team is only a 3 game winning streak away from being a "playoff contender".

[Am_I_Anonymous]

The East is truly amazing. Every team is only a 3 game winning streak away from being a "playoff contender".

You by chance a Cav's fan? I heard the word playoffs about 20 times during the broadcast today.....we're fucking 9-13.....

[Stoney Mason]

https://twitter.com/hoya2apacer/status/411701550294118401

 

He got long ass balls.

[ToxicAdam]

You by chance a Cav's fan? I heard the word playoffs about 20 times during the broadcast today.....we're fucking 9-13.....

I watch all Cleveland sports, but the only team I consider myself 'a fan' of are the Indians.

[Smooth Groove]

Cody Zeller looked garbage against the Lakers.

His play is basically why Lakers won.  Dude couldn't make a layup, couldn't hold on to rebounds and gave up a bunch of putbacks.  He showed no glimpses of why he deserved to be drafted so high.  Looks like another MJ bust.

[CajoleJuice]

Random post of something worth watching.

seconding this as really great. watched it a couple of weeks ago on Netflix.

[etiolate]

That Bird-Magic docu is enjoyable. I will third the recommendation.


I found it really weird that the Rockets let Harden come back into the game against the Kings. He twisted/rolled his ankle pretty bad in the middle of the game. You could hear him scream when it happened. He limped off to the locker room and I thought he was done. Then he came back into the game and played at... like 50% of his regular game. He couldn't drive and couldn't cover anyone. He limped around, sat outside and bricked threes. The game wasn't important to the Rockets and they weren't playing well enough to win. I just don't understand why you risk him making his ankle any worse. It was just a really pointless decision.

[Phoenix Dark]

Cody Zeller looked garbage against the Lakers.

His play is basically why Lakers won.  Dude couldn't make a layup, couldn't hold on to rebounds and gave up a bunch of putbacks.  He showed no glimpses of why he deserved to be drafted so high.  Looks like another MJ bust.

Told you guys MJ would draft him, and that he's a bust. Can't create his own shot, no post game or strength, not a bad shooter but it's harder to execute in the NBA.