The NBA thread

[Joe Molotov]

You're gonna have those nights when you give up 140.

[Flannel Boy]

160 is the benchmark.

[Stoney Mason]

Maybe its time to start worrying that the cavs aren't exactly working out great...

[TakingBackSunday]

No, it's not time to.  When we're 30 games in, then we'll talk.  They still have the ability to be a top 3 EC team.  They're just being exposed as a new team...which they are.

[Phoenix Dark]

Didn't the Heat start out 9-8? Cavs should be fine however I wouldn't be surprised if they get rid of the coach. That offense looks bad, and while it's moreso due to bad execution I bet he'll take the fall.

[TakingBackSunday]

offense looks like it'll be fine once people play their roles.  Everyone needs to stop turning the ball over, though.  Lebron has been awful with turnovers this season.

It would be folly to chuck Blatt after one month, seriously dude?  Give it a season.

[Stoney Mason]

Didn't the Heat start out 9-8? Cavs should be fine however I wouldn't be surprised if they get rid of the coach. That offense looks bad, and while it's moreso due to bad execution I bet he'll take the fall.

Still small sample size but Love looks lost in the offense currently. And Lebron while good isn't the Lebron from the Miami years at the moment. He is not nearly as efficient. Whether that will be fixed of course is the million dollar question.

[naff]

Loving the Cavs low point, so beautiful seeing this team get crushed  Miss Bron in Miami, the inspirational return schtick never sat right with me, that Nike ad was the tipping point for peak cringe factor





i am also relishing this train wreck

[Brehvolution]

Noah's got that gaze

[Stoney Mason]

Watching the Lakers right now is honestly unlike anything I can remember in my NBA life. They have transcended basketball and become some meta public art piece that we can all enjoy.

Watching them play, and in particular watching Kobe Bryant play offense, gives the feeling of having jumped into a time machine to 1993. Bryant gets the ball on the wing early in a possession, backs down like some hybrid of Mark Jackson and Michael Jordan, and unleashes a preposterous 20-foot turnaround ripped from an ancient league.

NBA offenses over the last half-decade evolved to avoid precisely the kinds of shots that Bryant is taking at near record levels. It’s not just the simple analytics, either — the math that says a contested midrange shot is the worst one in the game.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-absurd-present-and-unknowable-future/

LeBron James was blunt in his criticism of his own play amid the Cleveland Cavaliers' uninspiring 5-7 start to the season.

"We got a four-game losing streak, so I stink," James said after shootaround Monday in advance of the Cavs' game against the Orlando Magic. "I'm not doing my job. I got to do a better job and it will help our team."

Through 12 games, James is averaging the least amount of points (24.7) on the lowest shooting percentage (46.7) of his career since his rookie season in 2003-04. In terms of win-loss record, he is also off to the worst start of his career since that season when the Cavs went 4-8 out of the gate.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11930890/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-says-do-better-job

[Stoney Mason]

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Lebron bossed out last night brehs.

[naff]

Burke was hot last night. PD your boy's finally starting to look decent, v balanced game

[Brehvolution]

If the 76ers lose 76 games......

[Phoenix Dark]

Who gets run out of town first, Derrick Rose or RG3?

[naff]

I've fucked my knee up a couple times, currently waiting on surgery for a ruptured acl and torn mcl, how easily and randomly it happens while playing puts the fear deep inside you. Sometimes I get a little teary thinking about it, i can't even imagine the sort of shit Rose must be dealing with. So many Ls being taken, remembering 2010/11 like it was a dream... Fuk any chi city niccas giving him shit for how he's handled this situation, no matter how good his surgeon is each time it happens there's a better chance it will happen again, nothing you can do. Bulls gotta take this L gracefully or be known as shit cunts forever.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

one of the saddest things i ever seen in sports

[close]

[T-Short]

(Image removed from quote.)

Harden

[Stoney Mason]

Given that the Lakers have the league's second-worst point differential (minus-9.6 entering Wednesday's game against the Memphis Grizzlies at Staples Center), it's not as though they've faced too many "crunch-time" situations -- which the NBA defines as the final five minutes of the fourth quarter or overtime with the score within five points -- this season, but they've had their share.

And in those moments, according to ESPN Stats & Information, Bryant is shooting 36.4 percent (12-of-33) from the field, which is below the league's crunch-time average (39.7 percent entering Monday) and far below his last full season (2012-13), when he shot 42.6 percent in crunch time.

That Bryant's crunch-time shooting is slightly below league average doesn't seem to be that big of an issue, but it's exacerbated by the large volume of the Lakers' late possessions Bryant uses.

Usage percentage measures the percentage of team possessions that a team "uses" -- basically, any time a possession ends with the ball coming out of the player's hands, such as when he shoots it -- when a player is on the court. Entering Monday, Bryant led the NBA with a 36.8 usage percentage overall, but in crunch time, that number skyrockets to 52 percent of the Lakers' possessions -- by far the highest such rate in the NBA.

Worse, among the league's top six leaders in crunch-time usage percentage this season, Bryant has the lowest true shooting percentage -- which accounts for free throws as well as the added value of 3-pointers -- of any of them at 45.2 percent.

In other words, when the game is on the line, nobody dominates the ball more for any one team than Bryant does for the Lakers -- and nobody misses more, either.

Carmelo Anthony, who has a similar crunch-time usage percentage to Bryant (46.3), has a much better true shooting percentage (76). LeBron James, whose clutch-time usage percentage is also comparable (38.6), also has a much better true shooting percentage (66).

Beyond that, Bryant has taken 33 crunch-time shots for the Lakers while the rest of his teammates have combined for 22. In fact, Kobe has taken more than four times as many crunch-time shots as any one of his teammates.

The next closest is Jeremy Lin, who has taken seven.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11938700/save-los-angeles-lakers-kobe-bryant

[naff]

do the lakers want to be saved from kobe? im with glen on this, best stealth tank ever.

[Stoney Mason]

Just some random thoughts.

I was wondering why the grizzlies have gotten off to such a good start as I haven't seen them yet this year. I thought maybe Vince Carter was having a big impact with them. Looked at the stats.

5.7 ppg. FG%:35 3 Pt FG%:30

Nope.


How is Lance Stephenson doing over in Charlotte.

9.7 ppg FG%:37  PER 10.97

Not so hot.


Why is it impossible for Mike Miller to play well when he is on the same team as Lebron during the regular season.

11.7 minutes per game. 28 FG% 20 3PT FG%  1.2 points per game.

This is after having a relatively strong bounce back role player season last year in Memphis where he played in all 82 games.

[Stoney Mason]

[Stoney Mason]

[Stoney Mason]

After missing the last six weeks with a fractured right foot, the reigning MVP is back as Kevin Durant will make his season debut Tuesday night against the New Orleans Pelicans.

Durant, 26, underwent surgery to repair a Jones fracture on Oct. 16 and had a timetable to be re-evaluated in six weeks. He returned to practice last week, going through mostly non-contact drills, but participated in a full practice Monday.

He previously had missed only 14 games total in his seven-year NBA career. Last season he averaged a league-best 32.0 points with 7.4 rebounds and 5.5 assists en route to his first MVP award.

Teammate Russell Westbrook returned from a fractured hand on Wednesday as the Thunder (5-12) have won consecutive games.

Westbrook was sensational in his return, scoring 32 points on 12 of 17 shooting with seven rebounds and eight assists in just 23 minutes as the Thunder blew out the Knicks, 105-78.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11968055/kevin-durant-oklahoma-city-thunder-return-fractured-foot-vs-new-orleans-pelicans

[jakefromstatefarm]

TIL that Rudy Gay -in his 9th season with career averages of 35.9 mpg and 24.8 usg%- had never logged more than 9 assists in a single game prior to tonight

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Cavs starting to look real good. I actually saw them play defense twice. Amazing.

[Stoney Mason]

Anthony Davis still beasting over everybody.

Top Ten in PER

1   Anthony Davis,            33.33   
2   Stephen Curry             27.88   
3   DeMarcus Cousins      27.82   
4   Chris Paul                27.26   
5   Brandan Wright           26.93   
6   Marreese Speights       26.58
7   James Harden              24.98   
8   LeBron James              24.22
9   Dwyane Wade              24.20   
10   Marc Gasol                  23.56

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Yeah, he is definitely a beast. Never seen another player like him. Puts him in the Lebron/Durant level.

Wait a minute...

5   Brandan Wright           26.93 

 

[Stoney Mason]

Wait a minute...

5   Brandan Wright           26.93 

 

PER is just a measure of relative performance. So relatively speaking in the minutes, he is playing, Wright is currently playing way above normal. It tends to work itself out by the end of the year like a batting average.

Some minor players tend to do really well though in the limited minutes role they have relatively speaking. Not that PER is a perfect statistic though.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Wait a minute...

5   Brandan Wright           26.93 

 

PER is just a measure of relative performance. So relatively speaking in the minutes, he is playing, Wright is currently playing way above normal. It tends to work itself out by the end of the year like a batting average.

Some minor players tend to do really well though in the limited minutes role they have.

I know how per is calculated. I still would not have expected this statue to be there :-)

[Stoney Mason]

He seems to be a recent staple of the list as he was 13th last year. Maybe he just hits the sweet spot for how PER works.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/year/2014


Honestly, I almost never get to watch the Mavs unless its the playoffs so I can't really comment on him.

[TakingBackSunday]

has PER become the basketball equivalent to QBR?

[Stoney Mason]

has PER become the basketball equivalent to QBR?

I just think basketball is tougher than obviously say baseball when it comes to this stuff. I think PER is a nice window into something but it alone in a vacuum like any statistic can be misleading.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

He seems to be a recent staple of the list as he was 13th last year. Maybe he just hits the sweet spot for how PER works.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/year/2014


Honestly, I almost never get to watch the Mavs unless its the playoffs so I can't really comment on him.

He's great for 6 minutes a game. And by great I mean he isn't going to kill you...he won't win games for you either.

Per needs to have a minutes weight attached to it to make full sense.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

has PER become the basketball equivalent to QBR?

Nah because nobody on the planet can figure out QBR. Such a stupid stat.

[Stoney Mason]

The thing is Holinger may have improved some of his  formulas and such but we don't really hear from him on these subjects as much anymore since he became an exec with the Grizz. There is also a lot of new stat tracking breakdowns that can be done with the motion cameras in nba arenas that we don't necessarily get currently as the general public.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

The thing is Holinger may have improved some of his  formulas and such but we don't really hear from him on these subjects as much anymore since he became an exec with the Grizz. There is also a lot of new stat tracking breakdowns that can be done with the motion cameras in nba arenas that we don't necessarily get currently as the general public.

Meh, at this point I turn my brain off when the nerds start over analyzing shit like "Lebron is 3.8% less likely to dribble with his left hand in Memphis on the weekend"

[Stoney Mason]

Too much of anything can grate but I much prefer this era of fact based discussion relative to just eyeball tests and the regular stats which can be completely deluding. It also ushered in the end of the era of people like Jordan, and Isiah, being able to just parlay their success on the court as a means of being able to evaluate talent in a meaningful way.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Too much of anything can grate but I much prefer this era of fact based discussion relative to just eyeball tests and the regular stats which can be completely deluding. It also ushered in the end of the era of people like Jordan, and Isiah, being able to just parlay their success on the court as a means of being able to evaluate talent in a meaningful way.

I mean as a guy who played a sport for a long time I do believe there are natural born winners. I've played against and played with them.

You'll never be able to properly quantify why Tom Brady or Joe Montana are so great when their actual mechanics are average. But nobody can argue with their outcome.

[TakingBackSunday]

I can argue Spygate 

[Stoney Mason]

On another random note, Pau Gasol is doing really well in Chicago. Much better than his last two years in LA.

Kind of makes me think of two things.

A.) How the Lakers were completely fucking him over.

And

B.) There were rumours that the Heat had the inside track on Pau until he found out Lebron wasn't giving Miami any love. I wonder how the big three in Miami with Gasol added in the mix would have done.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

On another random note, Pau Gasol is doing really well in Chicago. Much better than his last two years in LA.

Kind of makes me think of two things.

A.) How the Lakers were completely fucking him over.

And

B.) There were rumours that the Heat had the inside track on Pau until he found out Lebron wasn't giving Miami any love. I wonder how the big three in Miami with Gasol added in the mix would have done.

I always liked both Gasols. He wasn't a fit after Phil left.

Gason to the Heat with the big 3? Title.

[TakingBackSunday]

Chalmers
Wade
Lebron
Bosh
Gasol

fuck

[Stoney Mason]

 

[naff]

The thing is Holinger may have improved some of his  formulas and such but we don't really hear from him on these subjects as much anymore since he became an exec with the Grizz. There is also a lot of new stat tracking breakdowns that can be done with the motion cameras in nba arenas that we don't necessarily get currently as the general public.

stats.nba.com has moved to using PIE instead of PER. Incorporates more defensive stats or something...

i would be keen to try synergy. The other day i was thinking about dwight and wanted to know how many points he's been scoring off pick n roll vs post ups and how his percentage scoring off using post vs pick n roll moves had changed since he's been working with houston vs la and his last years with orlando. Synergy has all that... I mean, people report on it, it's obvious dwight sucks (relatively) in the post and should stick to the pick n roll offense as much as he can, and he seems like he's been using it more in houston, but it would satisfy me to know facts.

Also, this looks like a great timesink

http://statm.us/W1ZC7YREeI

76ers get their first win

Jazz bench getting destroyed still making another 2nd half comeback as usual.

Their starters are actually p good, and i love favors heaps but their bench is a turd sandwich. Bench went 38-12 the other night against Denver, down 22, then they come back to within 1 point. Teams got potential, and the starters are fun to watch, trade Kanter, keep Gobert, hope Burke becomes consistent.

[Stoney Mason]

[TakingBackSunday]

Monta has been Kobe-ing it up lately.  really fun to watch

[Your Stalker]

He's been chucking his team out of games and being a locker room cancer? That's sad to hear.

[Stoney Mason]

http://grantland.com/features/everybody-loves-mike-miller-nba-cleveland-cavaliers-lebron-james-memphis-grizzlies-orlando-magic-tracy-mcgrady/


Nice article on Mike Miller

[Am_I_Anonymous]

http://grantland.com/features/everybody-loves-mike-miller-nba-cleveland-cavaliers-lebron-james-memphis-grizzlies-orlando-magic-tracy-mcgrady/


Nice article on Mike Miller

From what local media says here Lebron tears down Kyrie and then Miller builds him back up.

[Stoney Mason]

[Stoney Mason]

Cavs defense looking awful tonight.

[Stoney Mason]

Kyrie going off. Lebron having a crap night.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Kyrie going off. Lebron having a crap night.

10 Points 10 assists 5 rebounds and 2 steals in 3 quarters something you do a lot bro?

[Stoney Mason]

4 turnovers. 2 of 10. Bad shot selection.

[Stoney Mason]

lol. Amare more active than Tristan.

[TakingBackSunday]

Kyrie going off. Lebron having a crap night.

10 Points 10 assists 5 rebounds and 2 steals in 3 quarters something you do a lot bro?

Bro cmon.  Lebron is better than this.

[naff]

still Love and Lebron the only ones putting up positive +-. kyrie 0 ast, bron 10. kyrie and dion playing iso all night while their teammates get frustrated. lame

[Stoney Mason]

The Cavs have looked terrible tonight all around. And they are playing the Knicks. That being said, one good run and they could steal it so there is always that.

[Stoney Mason]

[insert joke about number of racist comments Trump and O'Reilly have probably shared tonight]

[Stoney Mason]

Huge 3 there by bron