Author Topic: The NBA thread (Read 1519832 times)

etiolate · « **Reply #3122 on:** December 10, 2011, 05:19:33 AM »

The thing that became really apparent from this fiasco is that the press is way too deep into the hands of players and their agents. This outrage at Stern for doing something that was preventing a trade that damaged the league image is not really in line with all the shit Stern has done over the years and hasn't been taken to task for. Fuck over any market you want, make the league a joke internationally, don't hold your refs accountable, have a gambling and mafia problem with your refs, but dear god, don't tell the Golden Boy "no"!

The second thing learned is that Demps was a bad choice. The third thing learned was that they should have stayed in the lockout, but I knew that.

pilonv1 · « **Reply #3123 on:** December 10, 2011, 07:12:48 AM »

They also love Morey so no one was going to rip him for trading for old busted Gasol. Us press is disgusting.

etiolate · « **Reply #3124 on:** December 10, 2011, 07:34:07 AM »

Yeah I get the feeling that everytime Simmons mentioned an upset executive that he meant Morey.

Mandark · « **Reply #3125 on:** December 10, 2011, 02:49:59 PM »

Scola is a few months older than Gasol? smh @ you guys.

Beezy · « **Reply #3126 on:** December 10, 2011, 03:34:39 PM »

Tyson Chandler is officially a Knick.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #3127 on:** December 10, 2011, 04:07:09 PM »

Quote from: Beezy on December 10, 2011, 03:34:39 PM

Tyson Chandler is officially a Knick.

If they could somehow trade Amare for Paul or something they would have a really great team imo. As long as Chandler can stay healthy this should improve their team no matter how you cut it though.

Not sure what exactly Mark Cuban is doing unless he's waiting to make some secret big splash.

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #3128 on:** December 10, 2011, 06:07:04 PM »

Quote from: Stoney Mason on December 10, 2011, 04:07:09 PM

Not sure what exactly Mark Cuban is doing unless he's waiting to make some secret big splash.

According to Cuban he just couldn't keep his free agents under the new deal, he was having to offer them one year deals and there was no reason for any of them to take that.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #3129 on:** December 10, 2011, 07:13:05 PM »

Quote from: Stoney Mason on December 10, 2011, 04:07:09 PM

Quote from: Beezy on December 10, 2011, 03:34:39 PM
Tyson Chandler is officially a Knick.

If they could somehow trade Amare for Paul or something they would have a really great team imo. As long as Chandler can stay healthy this should improve their team no matter how you cut it though.

Not sure what exactly Mark Cuban is doing unless he's waiting to make some secret big splash.

There were apparently scenarios discussed in which the Knicks would use their amnesty on Amar'e and use the cap space for a sign and trade. Instead they used the amnesty on Billups (which will likely mean he ends up going to a contender as well, since he is telling all this crappy teams that he basically won't play for them...).

Cuban published an email saying that he's all about creating cap space flexibility this year. After all these years of careless abandon, I have to say this is a WEIRD FUCKIN' TIME FOR CAP DISCIPLINE, CUBES

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #3130 on:** December 10, 2011, 11:37:37 PM »

etiolate · « **Reply #3131 on:** December 10, 2011, 11:39:52 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on December 10, 2011, 07:13:05 PM

Quote from: Stoney Mason on December 10, 2011, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: Beezy on December 10, 2011, 03:34:39 PM
Tyson Chandler is officially a Knick.

If they could somehow trade Amare for Paul or something they would have a really great team imo. As long as Chandler can stay healthy this should improve their team no matter how you cut it though.

Not sure what exactly Mark Cuban is doing unless he's waiting to make some secret big splash.

There were apparently scenarios discussed in which the Knicks would use their amnesty on Amar'e and use the cap space for a sign and trade. Instead they used the amnesty on Billups (which will likely mean he ends up going to a contender as well, since he is telling all this crappy teams that he basically won't play for them...).

Cuban published an email saying that he's all about creating cap space flexibility this year. After all these years of careless abandon, I have to say this is a WEIRD FUCKIN' TIME FOR CAP DISCIPLINE, CUBES

Maybe he wants a chance at Deron

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #3132 on:** December 11, 2011, 12:28:54 AM »

Deron says he's 90% certain he'll re-up with the Nets so that would appear to be a long shot. He also mentioned specifically that Chandler would need to be on the Mavs for him to be interested, I think.

Plus, if Howard goes to the Nets, Deron is staying surely. All in all, I expect all three of those guys to be off the board by next summer (D-Will, Howard, Paul). Although the kicker is that they can and likely will all opt out to take advantage of more beneficial terms offered by the new CBA, giving a crack of daylight for the Mavs and other suitors. But the incumbent teams really should have them locked up by then.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #3133 on:** December 11, 2011, 12:30:13 AM »

oh yeah, latest news - CP3 to Lakers is off again, as the Lakers have pulled out and are sending Odom to the Mavs. See, I toldja they'd have to trade him. Good spot of bargain hunting there by the Mavs, I guess. Odom can spell Dirk pretty well I think.

Mandark · « **Reply #3134 on:** December 11, 2011, 02:04:39 AM »

Just for a trade exception? Hm. What are the rules on how those can be used in conjunction with other things in trades? IIRC, you can't throw them into a player-for-player trade to take on a bigger salary, but I don't know any of the rules anymore.

etiolate · « **Reply #3135 on:** December 11, 2011, 02:13:50 AM »

I think they work similar to how having a player with that salary would work.

Mandark · « **Reply #3136 on:** December 11, 2011, 02:31:25 AM »

https://webfiles.uci.edu/lcoon/cbafaq/salarycap.htm#Q75

Looks like a trade exception can't be combined with a player to get back a player with a higher salary. That's from a FAQ about the last CBA, but considering all the changes were in the direction of restricting payrolls and player movements, I'd be very surprised if that changed in the new deal.

So the Lakers couldn't package this with Bynum to make the money work in a deal for Howard, for instance. But they could add it into a trade for Howard to take back a similar contract (Hedo?) that Orlando was looking to dump.

etiolate · « **Reply #3137 on:** December 11, 2011, 02:33:55 AM »

I think Hedo is about 2 mill more per year than the trade exception for Odom.

Hedo's contract plus Howard's new contract would probably begin to kill LA with luxury tax rules in a couple years. I guess they can afford it though.

pilonv1 · « **Reply #3138 on:** December 11, 2011, 04:34:15 AM »

LOLKERS

Mavs are going to be tough this year.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #3139 on:** December 11, 2011, 07:01:29 AM »

Someone is going to make out LIKE A BANDIT on the Chris Paul trade now, no matter what Stern says. I can see the Clippers being given a pass from Stern just because they've sucked for so long. If they can get him without giving up Griffin (not on the table but anyway) or Gordon (could be the best 2 guard in the league in a few short years), the Clippers will be fuckawesome in no time. They'd probably be my most-watched team on League Pass if that came off.

All this shit is TOO CRAZY! Can't believe the games start in 2 weeks and everyone is still running around like headless chickens

etiolate · « **Reply #3140 on:** December 11, 2011, 07:13:16 AM »

Gordon and parts for Paul is way better than what the Hornets were being offered before.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #3141 on:** December 11, 2011, 07:51:10 AM »

from the standpoint of rebuilding, yes. From the point of view of winning games at a reasonable price? Hell no. They were being given 3 quality starters and a backup PG. That's practically a whole team.

etiolate · « **Reply #3142 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:16:21 AM »

stuck in the middle sort of team is the worst place to be

any fanbase thats been through it would rather go through the rebuild

Akala · « **Reply #3143 on:** December 11, 2011, 10:04:11 AM »

hornets

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #3144 on:** December 11, 2011, 01:41:42 PM »

The Mavs are in talks to sign Bob Pettit to lower the team's average age.

Mandark · « **Reply #3145 on:** December 11, 2011, 02:29:28 PM »

Hard to see the Hornets getting a better deal for Paul. They could have either been a playoff team with the haul he brought or flipped those assets for draft picks and prospects in separate deals (where getting equal value is a lot more viable than in one trade involving a superstar).

They're still under a ton of pressure to get something for him before he leaves, and in the NBA there's usually one sucker at the table, so Demps might pull something out of a hat yet. Still, complete screwjob by Stern.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #3146 on:** December 11, 2011, 07:46:12 PM »

Fuuuuuuck, the Pacers have stolen David West away from under the Celtics' noses. This pre-season is complete fucking chaos. How any teams are managing a proper training camp is beyond me. No-one knows where anybody is going. Also, no word on League Pass yet

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #3147 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:32:25 PM »

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7342778/if-no-new-york-knicks-los-angeles-lakers-chris-paul-wants-los-angeles-clippers

Holy shit if Clips can pick up CP3 without giving up Eric Gordan. Go Clippers!

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #3148 on:** December 11, 2011, 10:22:00 PM »

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7341879/los-angeles-lakers-kobe-bryant-talks-losing-lamar-odom-it

WTF, Kobe is getting pissed at Lakers for making deals that better prepare them for the future. Really expected more from the "greatest" Laker of all time.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #3149 on:** December 11, 2011, 10:27:32 PM »

He's concerned about the present, and why shouldn't he be? He doesn't have much time left. If they can't Howard their offseason is going to look pretty shitty

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #3150 on:** December 11, 2011, 10:33:53 PM »

Without good teammates, Kobe's decline and inconsistency will soon be exposed anyway. Lakers might as well trade Kobe too while he still has the rep.

Think NY will do a straight up trade of Melo for Kobe?

Himu · « **Reply #3151 on:** December 11, 2011, 10:34:51 PM »

hahahaha can't wait to see kobe's decline

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #3152 on:** December 11, 2011, 10:35:02 PM »

Himu · « **Reply #3153 on:** December 11, 2011, 10:35:59 PM »

Quote from: Smooth Groove on December 11, 2011, 10:33:53 PM

Think NY will do a straight up trade of Melo for Kobe?

no

Mandark · « **Reply #3154 on:** December 11, 2011, 11:02:18 PM »

Oh panicky, entitled Lakers fans, never change!

Mandark · « **Reply #3155 on:** December 11, 2011, 11:12:46 PM »

I'm just enjoying your freak-out, man. Keep it coming!

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #3156 on:** December 11, 2011, 11:24:24 PM »

Quote from: AWESOM-O on December 11, 2011, 11:19:58 PM

With that said, how many millions has he made off the back of Kobe Bryant over the last 15 years?

He has been paid $200,000,000 by them and earned many millions more in endorsements by being a member of the Lakers (as opposed to, for example, the Hornets). He isn't owed anything.

Mandark · « **Reply #3157 on:** December 11, 2011, 11:30:07 PM »

Also, he's got five championships thanks to the great big men they've brought in to play with him. This isn't like the Timberwolves having to let KG free after wasting years of his prime.

The funny thing to me is that the offseason isn't over, the Lakers' alleged #1 target (Dwight Howard) hasn't been traded yet, there hasn't been any statement from the front office that they did this to save money and won't use the exception to bring in a player, the deal they just had vetoed showed they were very much looking to add top talent, and yet a ton of LA fans are still assuming the worst possible scenario and getting viscerally angry about it.

It's like the fanbase can't tolerate even a few days of the offseason with the roster being less than what it could be. Yeesh.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #3158 on:** December 11, 2011, 11:33:30 PM »

Without the Lakers' great management + huge bankroll and asskissing LA media like Adande, Kobe would have just been a taller Iverson and had a similar early decline due to constant double-teaming and a reluctance to pass.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #3159 on:** December 12, 2011, 12:04:21 AM »

Yeah, the Chris Paul/Dwight Howard thing is a logjam holding everything up. When those guys finally move, everyone else will move very quickly afterward (and they'll have to). That's where the REAL crazy overpaying/crazy bargains will come from.

I guess everyone is frozen by the prospect of Stern stepping in again, not to mention the uncertainties with the new rules. Can we all call him David Ex Machina from now on?

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #3160 on:** December 12, 2011, 12:05:14 AM »

Quote from: AWESOM-O on December 11, 2011, 11:35:02 PM

You're right. Basically all this doom and gloom from Lakers fans is based on a few tweets from Bresnahan and Woj that characterized this as a salary dump and not as the first step towards a larger trade.

The thing is, it can't really work as the first step towards a trade for Howard, and getting Paul now seems out of the question. So what they can turn this into is somewhat beyond me.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #3161 on:** December 12, 2011, 12:17:43 AM »

Keep in mind that Buss has always been cheap when he feels that it's not a championship year. For example, look at his coach hirings when the Lakers weren't one of the favorites.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #3162 on:** December 12, 2011, 12:37:34 AM »

I wonder how long Mike Brown will last

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #3163 on:** December 12, 2011, 01:20:43 AM »

Celtics, mainly but I usually have 2 or 3 that I follow pretty religiously. I watch a LOT of games.

Mandark · « **Reply #3164 on:** December 12, 2011, 01:21:16 AM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on December 12, 2011, 12:05:14 AM

Quote from: AWESOM-O on December 11, 2011, 11:35:02 PM
You're right. Basically all this doom and gloom from Lakers fans is based on a few tweets from Bresnahan and Woj that characterized this as a salary dump and not as the first step towards a larger trade.

The thing is, it can't really work as the first step towards a trade for Howard, and getting Paul now seems out of the question. So what they can turn this into is somewhat beyond me.

It could still be an asset towards getting Howard in a 3+ team trade. Might still wind up being a salary dump, if they figured that last year showed they can't win with this core anymore and need something drastic as a boost (hence going after Paul and Howard).

benjipwns · « **Reply #3165 on:** December 12, 2011, 03:50:04 AM »

Looks like Paul is headed to LA after all:

Quote

Clippers are close to deal for Chris Paul with Hornets

The deal hasn't been completed, but both sides were in the closing stages of the negotiations.

The Clippers would send the Hornets center Chris Kaman, backup second-year guard Eric Bledsoe, second-year forward Al-Farouq Aminu and the No. 1 draft pick they got from the Minnesota Timberwolves that is unprotected in the 2012 draft, considered to be one of the best in recent years.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-clippers-20111212,0,2925892.story

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #3166 on:** December 12, 2011, 06:34:25 AM »

Oh man, the Clippers could actually come out of the west with that line-up. Fuckawesome

They're keeping DeAndre Jordan, Griffin, Gordon and adding Chris Paul and Caron Butler. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. That is one killer starting 5 and will be fun as hell to watch.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #3167 on:** December 12, 2011, 11:13:30 AM »

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7342778/los-angeles-clippers-deal-new-orleans-hornets-chris-paul-submitted-nba-source-says

I hope it isn't true that Gordon must be part of the deal. Although good SGs are easier to find than pure PGs, Clippers won't be bad enough with Paul and Griffin to get another high draft pick as usual.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #3168 on:** December 12, 2011, 11:26:55 AM »

I'm not so sure that Sterling isn't trying to save money by trading Gordon so that he wouldn't have to resign him and getting CP3 so that he'd only have to pay him for 2 yrs. It's not beneath him to pretend like he cares a little about winning so that fans would buy tickets. Basically it's all Sterling has ever done since owning the Clippers. Dude is so cheap that Dunleavy had to sue him for back pay (Dunleavy won, btw).

etiolate · « **Reply #3169 on:** December 12, 2011, 11:40:56 AM »

Looks like NO got offered a better deal for CP3

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #3170 on:** December 12, 2011, 11:48:37 AM »

Yeah, I think it makes more sense for NO to get a top tier talent than a bunch of good players. With just one great talent, Hornets will be bad enough to have another high draft pick next year insteading of barely contending for the 8th seed.

Everyone raves about John Wall's athleticism, which is indeed incredible but a quick check of combine results show that Gordon exceeded Wall in every category. This could be a trade that Clippers would regret for years if Gordon figures out how to dominate in ways other than scoring.

Mandark · « **Reply #3171 on:** December 12, 2011, 01:07:00 PM »

Conflicting reports on whether Gordon's part of the deal, which is rather a huge piece.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #3172 on:** December 12, 2011, 04:02:17 PM »

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7345461/new-orleans-hornets-chris-paul-los-angeles-clippers-trade-dies-price-too-high-sources-say

And Stern fucks us again. Somebody kick him in the nads please.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #3173 on:** December 12, 2011, 05:46:40 PM »

This makes no fucking sense. None. New Orleans either must deal Paul NOW in order to extract maximum value, or get FUCKING NOTHING for him at the end of the season. Stern and the owners are fucking mongoloid distinguished mentally-challenged fellows.

Beezy · « **Reply #3174 on:** December 12, 2011, 05:54:04 PM »

I really want to see a good Clippers team. Stern needs to stop fucking around.

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #3175 on:** December 12, 2011, 05:55:38 PM »

Quote from: Creepy Old Guy on December 12, 2011, 05:46:40 PM

This makes no fucking sense. None. New Orleans either must deal Paul NOW in order to extract maximum value, or get FUCKING NOTHING for him at the end of the season. Stern and the owners are fucking mongoloid distinguished mentally-challenged fellows.

This is all just setting the stage for Chris Paul going to the Mavericks.

Mandark · « **Reply #3176 on:** December 12, 2011, 06:44:47 PM »

So the NBA takes over the Hornets, appoints Denby as a caretaker GM. He manages to swing a deal that gets New Orleans the best haul maybe ever for a disgruntled star in his last year, only to get overruled. So he tries to put something together with the Clippers, only he has less leverage because 1) the Lakers aren't bidding the price up, and 2) everyone knows the league is now desperate to trade Paul and save face/avoid legal action. Only that gets shot down by the league too.

I don't see how this could go any smoother!

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Still might happen. If it's the MIN pick + Gordon, I'd say huge win for the Hornets. If it's just the pick and a couple of young bench players, meh.

[close]

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #3177 on:** December 12, 2011, 07:56:51 PM »

This is utter chaos. This season is gonna be SO WEIRD. Chris Paul must be disconsolate.

btw, League Pass seems to be rebranding as NBA.TV. Got the sign-up mail today. Sounds hot (HD only! All DVR features available to everyone! Team Pass!) but no pricing details just yet.

If I were Pat Riley, I'd try REAL HARD to do a straight-up swap of Paul for Chris Bosh. Just fucking do it, worry about your center later. Turn LeBron into an off-the-ball force/pick-and-roll artist a la Malone and the title is yours even with Haslem and Joel Anthony. How many games did Bosh win for them anyway? How many would Paul win for them?

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #3178 on:** December 12, 2011, 08:37:43 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on December 12, 2011, 07:56:51 PM

This is utter chaos. This season is gonna be SO WEIRD. Chris Paul must be disconsolate.

btw, League Pass seems to be rebranding as NBA.TV. Got the sign-up mail today. Sounds hot (HD only! All DVR features available to everyone! Team Pass!) but no pricing details just yet.

If I were Pat Riley, I'd try REAL HARD to do a straight-up swap of Paul for Chris Bosh. Just fucking do it, worry about your center later. Turn LeBron into an off-the-ball force/pick-and-roll artist a la Malone and the title is yours even with Haslem and Joel Anthony. How many games did Bosh win for them anyway? How many would Paul win for them?

I've said for awhile now to friends that the smartest move Miami could make is to trade Bosh for somebody else who actually complements that team. Could you imagine the Heat with Chandler instead of Bosh.

Mandark · « **Reply #3179 on:** December 12, 2011, 08:42:02 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on December 12, 2011, 07:56:51 PM

If I were Pat Riley, I'd try REAL HARD to do a straight-up swap of Paul for Chris Bosh. Just fucking do it, worry about your center later. Turn LeBron into an off-the-ball force/pick-and-roll artist a la Malone and the title is yours even with Haslem and Joel Anthony. How many games did Bosh win for them anyway? How many would Paul win for them?

Can you imagine just how apoplectic Dan Gilbert would be? The letter he'd write? There wouldn't be a sans comic enough.

News:

Author Topic: The NBA thread (Read 1519832 times)