GDC stuff

[EmCeeGrammar]

Man, what an intense gathering of immature defensive pissy nerds we have had in this thread today.

Zelda skyward sword looks cool, although the trailer does seem slapped together.  Is there a transcript out there of what Iwata said specifically about iphone gaming?  I think he's one of the most level headed dudes out there with some good business sense, but it seems ridiculous to attack the apple model when it seems to be benefitting both smaller developers and consumers.  My secret hope is that 3ds software starts out not selling up to snuff and they go with budget pricing the rest of the gen.  I don't need production values really. Just make my games fun!

[Eel O'Brian]

he doesn't have a fucking point

he'd happily sell every one of those games to you exclusively on a nintendo device at a higher price point, but he can't, so he's slagging them off

[Damian79]

Man, what an intense gathering of immature defensive pissy nerds we have had in this thread today.

Zelda skyward sword looks cool, although the trailer does seem slapped together.  Is there a transcript out there of what Iwata said specifically about iphone gaming?  I think he's one of the most level headed dudes out there with some good business sense, but it seems ridiculous to attack the apple model when it seems to be benefitting both smaller developers and consumers.  My secret hope is that 3ds software starts out not selling up to snuff and they go with budget pricing the rest of the gen.  I don't need production values really. Just make my games fun!

I cant find a transcript yet.  :/

he doesn't have a fucking point

he'd happily sell every one of those games to you exclusively on a nintendo device at a higher price point, but he can't, so he's slagging them off

He may be but others even in his company doont think that way.

[cool breeze]

Well a game that artifically lengthens it self my making you face an unbeatable boss that kills you without the infinity blade so you have to die and get your children to do the same a million times is a shit game i am sorry.

$49.99

[Damian79]

9:57 — Iwata asks, “Is making high-value games a top priority, or not?” He’s making the case for making high-quality content versus cheap downloadable stuff. He doesn’t specifically mention iPhone, but this is clearly what he’s angling at right now.

9:58 — “The objectives of smartphones and social network platforms are not at all like ours,” he says, referring to traditional gamemakers like Nintendo and Sony. “For them, content is something created by someone else. Their goal is just to gather as much software as possible because quantity is what makes the money flow. Quantity is how they profit. The value of videogame software does not matter to them.”

10:00 — “What we produce has value, and we should protect that value. All is not lost,” he says.

This is the best i can find.

[Eel O'Brian]

there are plenty of full games on ios (and, mind you, i am no apple fanboy)

dead space, a full game which costs $10, is one example

any of gameloft's knockoffs or originals (the spider-man game is original and decent) are another, and they generally run between 6-10 with frequent .99 sales

these are games he can't sell you for $40 on an sd card

thus, he mad

[EmCeeGrammar]

he doesn't have a fucking point

he'd happily sell every one of those games to you exclusively on a nintendo device at a higher price point, but he can't, so he's slagging them off

I think you're being a little overzealous here.  He's stated in the past that they don't think they can get away with selling tetris like games for 30 bucks ever again (although they did do that on the ds).  This occurred around the time they were launching their wiiware service I believe.  My computer overheats if I try and watch long vids so is there a tl;dw version of what he said?  I don't know what to blindly defend here.

[Damian79]

Well a game that artifically lengthens it self my making you face an unbeatable boss that kills you without the infinity blade so you have to die and get your children to do the same a million times is a shit game i am sorry.

(Image removed from quote.)$49.99

No question about it, after all look at punchout wii.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Well a game that artifically lengthens it self my making you face an unbeatable boss that kills you without the infinity blade so you have to die and get your children to do the same a million times is a shit game i am sorry.

(Image removed from quote.)$49.99

Oh I mad
  LEAVE THE BEST PUNCHOUT GAME ALONE 

[Eel O'Brian]

again, what exactly is his point if indeed there is one

he blathers on about maintaining quality and value and then sells the same type of games at a higher price point

if there is a point, please tell me, because all i see is a guy complaining out of one side of his mouth and ordering up another round of motion-controlled 3D pong games out of the other

[EmCeeGrammar]

9:57 — Iwata asks, “Is making high-value games a top priority, or not?” He’s making the case for making high-quality content versus cheap downloadable stuff. He doesn’t specifically mention iPhone, but this is clearly what he’s angling at right now.

9:58 — “The objectives of smartphones and social network platforms are not at all like ours,” he says, referring to traditional gamemakers like Nintendo and Sony. “For them, content is something created by someone else. Their goal is just to gather as much software as possible because quantity is what makes the money flow. Quantity is how they profit. The value of videogame software does not matter to them.”

10:00 — “What we produce has value, and we should protect that value. All is not lost,” he says.

This is the best i can find.

Wow, this is arguably the first distinguished mentally-challenged thing I've heard him say.  Super hypocritical too considering that they dropped all quality standards on their systems in an effort to profit from liscenses issued to every shovelware developer who came a knocking. 

[Eel O'Brian]

that's what i'm saying

i have nothing against the wii (hell, no less than three passed through my hands), or the 3ds

i'm just wondering what the hell this dude is complaining about, when he ought to be sucking the dick of every angry birds dev out there and locking down exclusives

[cool breeze]

I'll be fair and say that Nintendo generously released their best DS game in 2010, Picross 3D, for a budget price of $19.99.  Ninty gets it!

[EmCeeGrammar]

that's what i'm saying

i have nothing against the wii (hell, no less than three passed through my hands), or the 3ds

i'm just wondering what the hell this dude is complaining about, when he ought to be sucking the dick of every angry birds dev out there and locking down exclusives

I agree with this.  I think where he is coming from is  he feels the entire business model will be threatened by the change in value perception from the average consumer.  Nintendo's forte is not gritty, nor nerdy, nor niche genre specialization.  They like their light hearted affairs and perhaps fear their normal demographics flocking elsewhere.

What a weird gen where the disruptor gets disrupted themselves in no time.

[Damian79]

again, what exactly is his point if indeed there is one

he blathers on about maintaining quality and value and then sells the same type of games at a higher price point

if there is a point, please tell me, because all i see is a guy complaining out of one side of his mouth and ordering up another round of motion-controlled 3D pong games out of the other

I agree.  He diminishes his own point with stuff like wii sports.  Games should be priced according to dev cost.  That is the biggest failing at Nintendo.  Also everything should be downloadable at a cheaper price.

[Damian79]

I do get however doing so will kill off RPG games because of how much they cost to develop.

[The Sceneman]

its good that Nintendo are demonstrating some sort of fear, they are fucking done,

Software sales aside from Mario are in the shitter, it's all over for these clowns

[pilonv1]

Summary

Iwata: The market will want what I tell them to want.

Typical head in the sand stuff from Japan. I understand they want to keep their value but if you look at XBLA there's a way you can do both.

[EmCeeGrammar]

In the case of the wii specifically though, when they release the games for 50 dollars and they sell out for months straight, there is no good reason to drop the price.  Considering how wii itself sold out for years straight they could have gotten away with a higher pricetag since the beginnning.

[EmCeeGrammar]

its good that Nintendo are demonstrating some sort of fear, they are fucking done,

Software sales aside from Mario are in the shitter, it's all over for these clowns

Uh, no. Not at all.  They are having some slowdown selling hardware but THEIR software is mostly doing just fine. 

[Damian79]

Summary

Iwata: The market will want what I tell them to want.

Typical head in the sand stuff from Japan. I understand they want to keep their value but if you look at XBLA there's a way you can do both.

he doesnt mention XBLA though.


 

its good that Nintendo are demonstrating some sort of fear, they are fucking done,

Software sales aside from Mario are in the shitter, it's all over for these clowns

Well they are makign the highest profits of any other developer form their games.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Nintendo for about half a decade has been raking in huge profits selling shitty little minigames for full price.  Now that people are selling those minigames for a small fraction of the costs, it will be a harder sell to explain to people why people should pay $40 for Yoshi Touch and Go 2 when they could find an iOS alternative (that probably does the job better) for 99 cents.  Especially if Nintendo sells 2 million copies of Yoshi Touch and Go 2 but could have sold over 3 million if it wasn't for those iOS alternatives, that is tens of millions of dollars they are losing out on.  I can see why Nintendo is mad.

Not that I sympathize with them.  Nintendo has shown us time and time again that they'd rather just rehash and port than develop compelling new content.  Games like Super Mario Galaxy are proof that they still have it in them to make great games, which makes their policy all the more insidious and shitty.  I hope iOS completely drains Nintendo's quick buck bottom line, lighting a fire under their ass to start producing legitimate efforts, not half ass a 1998 port that has been lapped by the emulation community over half a decade ago.  Not producing underpowered hardware with a gimmick while charging premium prices in the hopes that people are stupid enough to overvalue the gimmickry.

That said, the 3DS Mario has piqued my interest.  If it turns out well, I'll probably get a 3DS.

[pilonv1]

Summary

Iwata: The market will want what I tell them to want.

Typical head in the sand stuff from Japan. I understand they want to keep their value but if you look at XBLA there's a way you can do both.

he doesnt mention XBLA though.

Never said he did. Obviously Nintendo don't want to go down the iOS app store route, but they could embrace a digital store (XBLA being the example), and bring themselves into the 21st century by acknowledging that people want these cheaper, easier to digest games.

[Damian79]

Never said he did. Obviously Nintendo don't want to go down the iOS app store route, but they could embrace a digital store (XBLA being the example), and bring themselves into the 21st century by acknowledging that people want these cheaper, easier to digest games.

They are with the 3ds.

[The Sceneman]

  I will admit I have no clue what I'm talking about. I just fucking hate Nintendo for their refusal to innovate and their overpriced dinosaur hardware.

[pilonv1]

Never said he did. Obviously Nintendo don't want to go down the iOS app store route, but they could embrace a digital store (XBLA being the example), and bring themselves into the 21st century by acknowledging that people want these cheaper, easier to digest games.

They are with the 3ds.

Not really.

[Damian79]

Sceneman has generally proven to be about as savvy when talking about sales as I am when talking about rocket ship repair.  

Iwata's just pissy because Nintendo had a good racket going selling games with low dev budgets for full retail prices and the iPhone market seriously threatens that.  It's bad for his business, so of course he's going to talk it down.  This isn't a problem he can talk away though, so I hope he's got something better than that planned.

The iphone market threatens big budget games too.  And there is the issue that iwata is speaking about.  If for example people had the choice to buy either one high quality Final Fantasy game or 10 cheap iphone games, most people would buy the iphone games.

[EmCeeGrammar]

...
I don't know how you can't see the wiimote and the ds featureset as innovative.  You may not like it but it certainly was a risk and a break from the norm.

IN OTHER NEWS

People in the gaf thread are hating on the skyward sword trailer because it didn't have any reference to story.  ...sigh....

[Damian79]

Not really.

Explain.  They spent a fair segment at gdc talking about it.

[The Sceneman]

Sceneman has generally proven to be about as savvy when talking about sales as I am when talking about rocket ship repair.  

Iwata's just pissy because Nintendo had a good racket going selling games with low dev budgets for full retail prices and the iPhone market seriously threatens that.  It's bad for his business, so of course he's going to talk it down.  This isn't a problem he can talk away though, so I hope he's got something better than that planned.

The iphone market threatens big budget games too.  And there is the issue that iwata is speaking about.  If for example people had the choice to buy either one high quality Final Fantasy game or 10 cheap iphone games, most people would buy the iphone games.

Unfortunately people actually couldn't physically buy one high quality Final Fantasy game over 10 iphone games even if they wanted to! hahahahahahaha

[EmCeeGrammar]

The iphone market threatens big budget games too.  And there is the issue that iwata is speaking about.  If for example people had the choice to buy either one high quality Final Fantasy game or 10 cheap iphone games, most people would buy the iphone games.

I'm not convinced it does.  I don't think there's a terribly large overlap between, say, a Final Fantasy buyer and someone whose gaming urges will be satisfied by ten quickies.

There might be an overlap between someone looking at a 40 dollar Pilotwings 3ds game or a cheapo iphone app though.  Nintendo be all concerned and stuff.

[tiesto]

Sceneman has generally proven to be about as savvy when talking about sales as I am when talking about rocket ship repair.  

Iwata's just pissy because Nintendo had a good racket going selling games with low dev budgets for full retail prices and the iPhone market seriously threatens that.  It's bad for his business, so of course he's going to talk it down.  This isn't a problem he can talk away though, so I hope he's got something better than that planned.

The iphone market threatens big budget games too.  And there is the issue that iwata is speaking about.  If for example people had the choice to buy either one high quality Final Fantasy game or 10 cheap iphone games, most people would buy the iphone games.

Unfortunately people actually couldn't physically buy one high quality Final Fantasy game over 10 iphone games even if they wanted to! hahahahahahaha

Damn, you made the post I was gonna make  

Though Nintendo still makes some fun and content-filled titles, I don't get where this whole "Nintendo does nothing but minigames" nonsense comes from... The Marios, the Zeldas, Sin and Punishment 2 (released by Nintendo), the Fire Emblems, Paper Marios, Golden Suns, etc.

When I pick up Wii or DS games it's not Brain Age or Wii Music, at least...

[Damian79]

I'm not convinced it does.  I don't think there's a terribly large overlap between, say, a Final Fantasy buyer and someone whose gaming urges will be satisfied by ten quickies.

I think you are wrong on this.  There are very few hardcore gamers these days.  People who used to buy say FF7 just for the FMV's are buying iphone games.

[The Sceneman]

Well I'd be all over a new installment of a quality Nintendo franchise which hasn't already been done to death, a new Paper Mario, Pikmin of F-Zero would be great!

But all we're seeing is another copy pasta 3d Zelda and another 3d Mario. zzzzzzzzz

[Damian79]

THere is a new paper mario for the 3ds.  But i do agree, they need to make another F-zero.

[Shaka Khan]

I will admit I have no clue what I'm talking about. I just fucking hate Nintendo for their refusal to innovate and their overpriced dinosaur hardware.

This is why I fucking love this guy lol.

[The Sceneman]

I will admit I have no clue what I'm talking about. I just fucking hate Nintendo for their refusal to innovate and their overpriced dinosaur hardware.

This is why I fucking love this guy lol.

 

don't get me wrong though! I fucking love video games and I used to love Nintendo too. It's just the success of the DS and Wii have made them lazy, complacent, overweight reptiles. Something needs to shit on their picnic.

And yeah, I do say stupid shit most of the time, but I just like to illustrate my opinions with baseless hyperbole. *shrug*

[EmCeeGrammar]

I really hope you bought rhythm heaven.  And sin and punishment 2.

[Damian79]

The people who bought FF7 for the FMVs stopped buying FF way before the advent of the iPhone.  I'd say that lot is currently squatting on Call of Duty/Modern Warfare, and that series looks like it's doing just fine to me.

Also it is splitting the gamer demographics a lot.  IT is causing uncertainty among high risk game developers.  For example all the MMO's are getting wowified... that sucks.

[The Sceneman]

I really hope you bought rhythm heaven.  And sin and punishment 2.

*not Nintendo games*

[pilonv1]

Not really.

Explain.  They spent a fair segment at gdc talking about it.

Really?

17:45PM By Ellie Gibson

Not every feature will be available out of the box - many of them will come with the update in late May, including the DSiWare service and the ability to transfer your existing DSiWare games to 3DS, plus the browser and eShop.
17:44PM By Ellie Gibson

So will 3D classics - remakes of old hits. And trailers, screenshots, background info, links to your own websites. Eurogamer.net full stops in 3D!
17:44PM By Ellie Gibson

Reggie's talking about the Nintendo eShop now. It includes the DSiWare service. You'll also get access to olden days Game Boy nonsense, yes we know. But that will include Game Gear and Turbo Grafx games.

Awesome, 3D remakes and ports of old console games. At some point in the future. Nintendo wins again, they get it unlike Apple or Microsoft or Sony

[EmCeeGrammar]

Rhythm heaven was internally developed.  They published Sin and Punishment 2.  Splitting hairs, duder.

[The Sceneman]

Rhythm heaven was internally developed.  They published Sin and Punishment 2.  Splitting hairs, duder.

*confusing me for someone who gives a shit*

[Damian79]

Really?

17:45PM By Ellie Gibson

Not every feature will be available out of the box - many of them will come with the update in late May, including the DSiWare service and the ability to transfer your existing DSiWare games to 3DS, plus the browser and eShop.
17:44PM By Ellie Gibson

So will 3D classics - remakes of old hits. And trailers, screenshots, background info, links to your own websites. Eurogamer.net full stops in 3D!
17:44PM By Ellie Gibson

Reggie's talking about the Nintendo eShop now. It includes the DSiWare service. You'll also get access to olden days Game Boy nonsense, yes we know. But that will include Game Gear and Turbo Grafx games.

Awesome, 3D remakes and ports of old console games. At some point in the future. Nintendo wins again, they get it unlike Apple or Microsoft or Sony

You are right.  I attributed the eshop to something siimilar to the XBLA.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

the part which pisses me off is that the iOS model is EXACTLY what Nintendo has been curating on their systems for at least the Wii/DS, probably the GC and maybe even back to the N64.

What Iwata can't take is that Nintendo's sorry ass isn't any better off than any of the third-parties they've been sucking the life out of for years. We are all third parties now, working for Apple and Google. If you can't deal with that new reality then get the fuck out of the game industry.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Rhythm heaven was internally developed.  They published Sin and Punishment 2.  Splitting hairs, duder.

*confusing me for someone who gives a shit*

Hey guys this group x sucks because they don't do y
But sir, they do y
You're confusing me for someone who cares herp a derp derp derp

[Damian79]

I think that's tremendously oversimplifying the problems the industry is having at the moment.  If only it were all because of the iPhone boogeyman, it would be so easy to fix.  Alas, that's not the reality.  This industry was heading for a hurt-pile before the iPhone came about.  It's just that Apple figured out a way to make money under those conditions.

Come on.  You havent known kids going from the DS to the iphone?

[The Sceneman]

Rhythm heaven was internally developed.  They published Sin and Punishment 2.  Splitting hairs, duder.

*confusing me for someone who gives a shit*

Hey guys this group x sucks because they don't do y
But sir, they do y
You're confusing me for someone who cares herp a derp derp derp

look man don't get started with this. You don't have the panache to not get banned for it

[EmCeeGrammar]

What Iwata can't take is that Nintendo's sorry ass isn't any better off than any of the third-parties they've been sucking the life out of for years.

What?  Like, they've been making an active effort to weaken other makers of games?  That's a weird takeaway from the situation.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

What Iwata can't take is that Nintendo's sorry ass isn't any better off than any of the third-parties they've been sucking the life out of for years.

What?  Like, they've been making an active effort to weaken other makers of games?  That's a weird takeaway from the situation.

Nintendo absolutely doesn't want anybody other than Nintendo making top-selling games for their platform

[Damian79]

Nintendo absolutely doesn't want anybody other than Nintendo making top-selling games for their platform

Just Dance?

[EmCeeGrammar]

What Iwata can't take is that Nintendo's sorry ass isn't any better off than any of the third-parties they've been sucking the life out of for years.

What?  Like, they've been making an active effort to weaken other makers of games?  That's a weird takeaway from the situation.

Nintendo absolutely doesn't want anybody other than Nintendo making top-selling games for their platform

Can't say I agree with that assessment at all.  They would love it if there were more phenomenons akin to Just Dance on their systems so they wouldn't have to be the sole bouy keeping their platforms afloat.  Its part of the reason they pursued resident evil the previous gen, monster hunter this gen, and are now actively trying to keep dragon quest game on their systems now.  It just so happens they are the best sellers on their own platforms for the reason that they are the only ones taking those platforms seriously at this point.

[pilonv1]

What Iwata can't take is that Nintendo's sorry ass isn't any better off than any of the third-parties they've been sucking the life out of for years.

What?  Like, they've been making an active effort to weaken other makers of games?  That's a weird takeaway from the situation.

Nintendo absolutely doesn't want anybody other than Nintendo making top-selling games for their platform

Not entirely true, they just don't want anyone making games similar to theirs on their system. Which is why Just Dance is ok, and why they've got no interest in third parties on their digital stores.

[pilonv1]

I'm not saying the iPhone isn't absorbing *some* of those gamers, but again, looking at cold, hard numbers, they aren't absorbing a significant amount.  

It's an easy excuse to say they are though. It's like opposite of the piracy excuse.

[Damian79]

I live in Japan, so no.  

Wow, Japan is strange.  I have known plenty of kids going form the DS to the iphone.

[Trent Dole]

Thread needs less distinguished mentally-challenged arguing and more Robert Smith.
[youtube=560,345]MI0a9hTh5AU[/youtube]
 

[Damian79]

Thing is that i think even kids are sick of your standard Mario and Pokemon.

[cool breeze]

Thing is that i think even kids are sick of your standard Mario and Pokemon.

Nintendo still has the blue ocean ecosystem of babies to support them

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[EmCeeGrammar]

Thing is that i think even kids are sick of your standard Mario and Pokemon.

I'm beginning to sense a pattern here. For future reference, don't assume trends with no factual way to support your perception. Mario and Pokemon are doing better than ever.

[Raban]

Thing is that i think even kids are sick of your standard Mario and Pokemon.

Man I fucking wish. The only thing better than Nintendo's ability to make a shitty game is their ability to sell said shitty game.