Game Of Thrones S2 (HBO, 9PM EST) thread

[Phoenix Dark]

ACOK book spoilers on your question:

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In the book it's even more random, and one of my least favorite scenes. Basically Renly is talking to Catelyn when his throat is slit by what seems to be a shadow. The Melisandre birthing scene actually happens after Renly's death, and the shadow baby is used to kill someone else (who is not in the books so I won't go into detail). So at the time of Renly's death the reader isn't provided with any overt information on who killed him, although one could easily guess it must have been Melisandre since she's the only person capable of doing it.

At the time it just felt like too quick of an event. In the books Renly is on the verge of attacking (and most likely crushing) Stannis' small force outside of a castle.

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[ZephyrFate]

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Having a meteor randomly come out of the sky and kill Renley would have been more satisfying. Poor writing.

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The rest was great. I'm just worried now that magic is here in full force. What's stopping the red haired wench from popping out a few more shadowy assassins and claiming the throne herself in less than an ep? Nothing at this point.

There are rules that I can't go into regarding Melisandre's magic, it's not like this is something that she can just easily do.

Also, I really hated the divergence from the books they made with Arya tonight. Like, wow, that was fucking distinguished mentally-challenged.

[Tasty]

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Having a meteor randomly come out of the sky and kill Renley would have been more satisfying. Poor writing.

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The rest was great. I'm just worried now that magic is here in full force. What's stopping the red haired wench from popping out a few more shadowy assassins and claiming the throne herself in less than an ep? Nothing at this point.

There are rules that I can't go into regarding Melisandre's magic, it's not like this is something that she can just easily do.

Also, I really hated the divergence from the books they made with Arya tonight. Like, wow, that was fucking distinguished mentally-challenged.

Well there would have to be rules, otherwise they should just get the old and new gods involved for good measure.

What's different?

[ZephyrFate]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Having a meteor randomly come out of the sky and kill Renley would have been more satisfying. Poor writing.

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The rest was great. I'm just worried now that magic is here in full force. What's stopping the red haired wench from popping out a few more shadowy assassins and claiming the throne herself in less than an ep? Nothing at this point.

There are rules that I can't go into regarding Melisandre's magic, it's not like this is something that she can just easily do.

Also, I really hated the divergence from the books they made with Arya tonight. Like, wow, that was fucking distinguished mentally-challenged.

Well there would have to be rules, otherwise they should just get the old and new gods involved for good measure.

What's different?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Arya is the one who kills The Tickler, and it's a super cathartic moment for her character because she's been hearing him torturing people for days and days and days. This picture sums it up

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[Tasty]

Yeah that does seem like a dumb choice. Then again maybe they just don't want to show a kid going psycho. I mean she killed that kid in King's Landing but it was so awkwardly short and rushed it was obvious they were uncomfortable with it...


Is the genie assassin in the books?

[ZephyrFate]

Yes, and it's about as sudden as it is in the books. There's no definable shape to it, though, just a shadow.

[Tasty]

No I meant Arya's whole three wishes killer guy.

[ZephyrFate]

Oh, yeah, and it's one of the best arcs in the series. Their interactions are great, and if they keep a scene later on, it will come to define the season.

[Phoenix Dark]

I thought that was a great episode. Honestly the only problem I had was with how

episode spoilers (no book spoilers):

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the Renly scene was shot. It just looked so...pedestrian. Reminded me waaay too much of Lost with the way the shadow swept into the room. I had hoped it would just travel on the walls, which would have looked creepier imo; like a Dracula homage.

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Qarth looked beautiful, and while there still was a Sci Fi channel cheese level, overall I liked the scenes there. Not a big fan of Quaith's mask though; she looks like a gimp or some shit. Pyrat Pree looked awesome though.

In terms of the Arya change that has book fans pissed: eh. I'd imagine "that scene" will be replaced with something else, so I will reserve judgement until we get to that point.

I loved all the anterior shots in this episode, especially in King's Landing (filmed in Croatia). Dubrovnik is one of the most beautiful cities in the world and I'm glad we got to see more of it tonight. The Qarth scenes were shot there too, and they managed to hide it perfectly; it gave me a Babylonian vibe.

Also it was awesome to see Roy Dotrice playing the pyromancer! Awesome cameo, and I loved his interaction with Tyrion and Bronn. Bronn continues to get some of the funniest lines in the series

[Himu]

Tonight's episode was fantastic. It had so much content jam-packed into one short hour. I was really impressed with the not only the editing but the flow of the storytelling in this episode. Easily the best this season so far.

I really disagree with the change from the books that has been mentioned so far, but it's a nitpick and like I said, the tv show is better than the books so who gives a shit

[Phoenix Dark]

For the record, the change could indeed ruin what is one of the very best Arya moments in the entire series - and one of the best moments in the entire series period. But considering this is an adaptation, I would imagine the writers will replace that scene with something else. And until I see that, I without nerd rage.

[Himu]

Thinking back, it's a lot more natural for this to happen than have a little girl

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violently murdering the guy

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. i think it helps with the storytelling. arya will get there.

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What's more likely to happen? a little girl scared to death who prays her enemies names before she sleeps, who has lost everything is on her own, is granted three "death wishes"...orrrrrrrrr, she goes berserk and kills him herself?

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Another case of the tv series one upping the source material.

[ZephyrFate]

I'm gonna nerd rage because the scene is amazing, and if they don't use something of a similar weight and catharsis, it's going to cripple Arya's arc.

It's

spoiler (click to show/hide)

entirely more natural to have Arya murder The Tickler because she spent days, and days, and DAYS hearing him torturing people. Every line she says while she murders him is golden, and it's basically right at the point where old Arya dies and new Arya emerges -- a bitter, vengeful assassin psychopath.

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And no, this is not at all a case of the show one upping the book material at all and that's complete horseshit and you know it.

[Himu]

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They're clearly building up to psychopath Arya. Having her flip her shit makes no sense in this context and she is already becoming bitter if you paid attention to the scene between her and tywin

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[ZephyrFate]

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They're clearly building up to psychopath Arya. Having her flip her shit makes no sense in this context and she is already becoming bitter if you paid attention to the scene between her and tywin

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I'd believe that if they convinced us more that Arya's slowly rotting away mentally. There's absolutely no way that the way they're handling Arya will lead to what she becomes later. It takes that scene, which is entirely pivotal to her character, to make her snap. Unless they throw in something of equal gravitas, they've wasted a potentially Emmy-winning scene for Maisie next season.

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[Phoenix Dark]

Larry taking a dump on Sansa


Himu:

ACOK and ASOS book spoiler:

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The Tickler was not a physically imposing or dangerous person - Arya killing him was not unrealistic at all. It would have been an amazing scene, I don't see how anyone could deny that. In fact, it would be one of the more shocking scenes on television. It's far more believable than Arya killing Lannister guards during the Nights Watch caravan attack in ACOK. Also by the time she kills him, she had been preparing mentally and physically for months.

A problem I did have with the scene was that it occured right after Tywin basically telling everyone he's going to attempt to kill Robb. Why wouldn't Arya name Tywin first? In the book she names Joffery first iirc, and Jaquen tells her it would be impossible. From a writing perspective, it made little sense.

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[Himu]

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Tywin has not wronged her. Why would she name Tywin?

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[Phoenix Dark]

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Tywin has not wronged her. Why would she name Tywin?

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The Tickler didn't wrong her either. Tywin threatened to kill her brother, you don't think she would leave that meeting worried about his well being, and intent to do anything to help him if she could? In the book she only names people who have directly harmed her.

Why not name Polliver, who killed Lommy and stole her sword? From a writing perspective it just made no sense to me.

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[ZephyrFate]

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Tywin has not wronged her. Why would she name Tywin?

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The Tickler didn't wrong her either. Tywin threatened to kill her brother, you don't think she would leave that meeting worried about his well being, and intent to do anything to help him if she could? In the book she only names people who have directly harmed her.

Why not name Polliver, who killed Lommy and stole her sword? From a writing perspective it just made no sense to me.

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I don't think she knows who Tywin is, so without knowing his name, that's not gonna happen. It still doesn't salvage this dumb decision but at least we can rule that out.

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[Himu]

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Tywin has not wronged her. Why would she name Tywin?

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The Tickler didn't wrong her either. Tywin threatened to kill her brother, you don't think she would leave that meeting worried about his well being, and intent to do anything to help him if she could? In the book she only names people who have directly harmed her.

Why not name Polliver, who killed Lommy and stole her sword? From a writing perspective it just made no sense to me.

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Tywin also saved her from being executed. Lots of dudes want to kill her brother. She only wants to kill people who have wronged her, her family, or people who without a modicum of humanity. It seemed to me, in this version of the story, Arya didn't really believe they'd end up dead and just said the first name that popped up.

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[Phoenix Dark]

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Tywin has not wronged her. Why would she name Tywin?

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The Tickler didn't wrong her either. Tywin threatened to kill her brother, you don't think she would leave that meeting worried about his well being, and intent to do anything to help him if she could? In the book she only names people who have directly harmed her.

Why not name Polliver, who killed Lommy and stole her sword? From a writing perspective it just made no sense to me.

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I don't think she knows who Tywin is, so without knowing his name, that's not gonna happen. It still doesn't salvage this dumb decision but at least we can rule that out.

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She certainly knows who he is. He was called Lord Tywin in her presence, she knows he is a Lannister, she's a noble and would definitely be familiar with the main members of the Lannister family.

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[ZephyrFate]

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Tywin has not wronged her. Why would she name Tywin?

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spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Tickler didn't wrong her either. Tywin threatened to kill her brother, you don't think she would leave that meeting worried about his well being, and intent to do anything to help him if she could? In the book she only names people who have directly harmed her.

Why not name Polliver, who killed Lommy and stole her sword? From a writing perspective it just made no sense to me.

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I don't think she knows who Tywin is, so without knowing his name, that's not gonna happen. It still doesn't salvage this dumb decision but at least we can rule that out.

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She certainly knows who he is. He was called Lord Tywin in her presence, she knows he is a Lannister, she's a noble and would definitely be familiar with the main members of the Lannister family.

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More than likely they'll have him conveniently leave Harrenhal and it'll be too late, so we can still get the coin sequence and they can salvage some of the butchering to her plot arc they've been doing.

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[Himu]

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Tywin has not wronged her. Why would she name Tywin?

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The Tickler didn't wrong her either. Tywin threatened to kill her brother, you don't think she would leave that meeting worried about his well being, and intent to do anything to help him if she could? In the book she only names people who have directly harmed her.

Why not name Polliver, who killed Lommy and stole her sword? From a writing perspective it just made no sense to me.

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I don't think she knows who Tywin is, so without knowing his name, that's not gonna happen. It still doesn't salvage this dumb decision but at least we can rule that out.

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She certainly knows who he is. He was called Lord Tywin in her presence, she knows he is a Lannister, she's a noble and would definitely be familiar with the main members of the Lannister family.

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So kill the guy that took her in, gave her shelter, saved her from being executed. Then what? THAT makes no sense from a narrative perspective or Arya's self survival methodology

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[Bebpo]

Hated the first 10 mins, didn't like the changes to the Theon stuff (feels so rushed here), and lack of the Reeds, but otherwise the episode was good.  Arya & Tyrion are the reasons to watch the show as always.

[Phoenix Dark]

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Tywin has not wronged her. Why would she name Tywin?

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The Tickler didn't wrong her either. Tywin threatened to kill her brother, you don't think she would leave that meeting worried about his well being, and intent to do anything to help him if she could? In the book she only names people who have directly harmed her.

Why not name Polliver, who killed Lommy and stole her sword? From a writing perspective it just made no sense to me.

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I don't think she knows who Tywin is, so without knowing his name, that's not gonna happen. It still doesn't salvage this dumb decision but at least we can rule that out.

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She certainly knows who he is. He was called Lord Tywin in her presence, she knows he is a Lannister, she's a noble and would definitely be familiar with the main members of the Lannister family.

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So kill the guy that took her in, gave her shelter, saved her from being executed. Then what? THAT makes no sense from a narrative perspective or Arya's self survival methodology

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True. Yet I would argue it also makes no sense to name The Tickler, who did her no harm. And I question why the writers did not go with Polliver, who clearly harmed Arya.  They went went out their name to give him a name, and multiple scenes in two episodes. It doesn't make sense. But like I said, I won't flip out until I see how it's handled next season. So I'll reserve my general observation that I just...don't like most of the major changes Weiss and Benioff make. The small condensing stuff almost always works, but whenever they stray too far off the reservation it shows. Mainly in terms of Ros, and if they fuck this up next season I'll be sitting her wondering "why would you do that?" I've heard they talk about the butterfly effect, they certainly know the potential consequences of changes. Hell, they know how Martin plans to end the series (for the most part).

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[Phoenix Dark]

I'm sorry, but who the fuck cares about the Reeds

Osha is more than capable of doing everything they do, outside of giving Bran a love interest

[ZephyrFate]

It depends on if Howland Reed becomes a red herring or gains importance in the books after ADWD, but they can always introduce them next season.

[Phoenix Dark]

The absence of his children wouldn't bar him from an appearance (if he ever makes one...). And as you said, they could be introduced later. I know Martin has said a lot of characters were moved to S3. The Tullys will certainly be introduced then, perhaps the Reeds as well. But right now it seems like Osha is the perfect candidate to condense a lot of their stuff

[Bebpo]

I like the Reeds!  They give Bran a crew to hang with and have fun scenes together.

Then again I'm still in ASoS, so I'm going to shut up about them before I get too spoiled.

[fistfulofmetal]

Osha is more than capable of doing everything they do, outside of giving Bran a love interest

well... the kid is growing up pretty fast.

[Momo]

Book spoiler kinda

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House of Undying next week then? Chances of the symbolism being dumbed down to approximations of the actual events 95%

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[Phoenix Dark]

That scene occurs in two weeks (ep 7). And I expect it'll be cheesy as hell. Hopefully it's at least shot well

[Momo]

That scene occurs in two weeks (ep 7). And I expect it'll be cheesy as hell. Hopefully it's at least shot well

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Even though I know what it is supposed to be I swear to god if they give away what the Red Wedding is supposed to be easily, I'm going to puke

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[MyNameIsMethodis]

THANK GOD pd's spoiler only spoiled the first scene of the episode pd

[Momo]

Which spoiler? The ones we are talking about hidden under spoiler tags? =P

[MyNameIsMethodis]

the one last week where the guy dies

[Momo]

The Barathian? Well yeah. the whole lady stark and big lesbo guard running away was played out so poorly. Once they killed the two people who ran in they could have easily blamed them.

[Flannel Boy]

the magic queef is worse than soul magnets in Fringe.

That is all.

[ZephyrFate]

the magic queef is worse than soul magnets in Fringe.

That is all.

okay

[Tasty]

the magic queef is worse than soul magnets in Fringe.

That is all.

Deh night is dark and full of terrors.

Gosh I hate her too, almost as much as Joffrey. She's #2 on my hit list for this show, hope she gets it.

[ZephyrFate]

God I love Jaqen H'ghar.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Yeah dude is cool it seems.

Episode 5 spoiler

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Shame the gay king died, he was kind of a cool dude too.

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[chronovore]

The Barathian? Well yeah. the whole lady stark and big lesbo guard running away was played out so poorly. Once they killed the two people who ran in they could have easily blamed them.

Yeah, that whole bit felt like it was a play on a stage -- christ add some tension and throw some extras into the background. It felt very oddly paced and theatrical.

[Diunx]

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Tywin has not wronged her. Why would she name Tywin?

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The Tickler didn't wrong her either. Tywin threatened to kill her brother, you don't think she would leave that meeting worried about his well being, and intent to do anything to help him if she could? In the book she only names people who have directly harmed her.

Why not name Polliver, who killed Lommy and stole her sword? From a writing perspective it just made no sense to me.

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I don't think she knows who Tywin is, so without knowing his name, that's not gonna happen. It still doesn't salvage this dumb decision but at least we can rule that out.

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You think a highborn lady doesn't know who the most powerful man in the kingdoms is?

I think that they are completely fucking up the amazing Arya storyline and there is absolutely no defense for the shit they are pulling with her.

And I can't even begin to express how disappointed I'm at the killing shadow scene and it's aftermath so so fucking bad, the people saying that this show is better than the books should be sent to the Dreadfort for some Bolton hospitality.

And I can't wait to see what they do in winterfell since they eliminated 90% of the characters from that storyline, smh.

[BlueTsunami]

Arya's staring match with Tywin cements Maisie as a acting force on this show. She's up there with Dinklage, in fact I think she's ahead of the best actors currently. It may be in part to her scenario (which is the most interesting to me) and the writing that seems to be handled with care for her scenario.

[Phoenix Dark]

She definitely held her own in that scene, which was very powerful to me. She has a level of subtlety to her acting that you almost never seen from child actors or young adult actors. I like Sophie Turner (Sansa) and Emilia Clarke (Dany) but at times it's like they're channeling Emma Watson with the whole "act dramatic and loud" thing. Williams never goes over board.

A lot of my potential anger over the change made last night is that we won't get to see Williams handle "that" scene.

[ZephyrFate]

Which, like I was saying, would get her an Emmy on the spot.

[Tasty]

I sort of dislike the actress for Sansa but I can't put my finger on it... maybe I just dislike the character.

[Phoenix Dark]

For a child actor? No. The awards are basically run on seniority and show hype. The female actresses in The Good Wife and Mad Men were certainly have a leg up on her regardless

But you're right, it could have been an amazing scene and Williams would knock it out the park. The first time I saw Kill Bill I remember seeing this shot and saying "that's how it could look"..


spoiler for ASOS:

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Not as stylized, but something like that

[Human Snorenado]

You're not really supposed to like Sansa's character.

Episode was good.  Was it me or were there no tits?

[Cerveza mas fina]

I didnt see a single tit.

[BlueTsunami]

I guess Emilia Clarke is gettin' uppity due to fame and can't show us one measly cherub-esque titty

[Phoenix Dark]

[Himu]

PD, shut the fuck up about book spoilers in this thread you cunt. Some haven't read the books so you need to make your own book spoiler thread or shut the fuck up.

[Beezy]

 

[Human Snorenado]

Someone's gettin saaaaaaaalty!

[Himu]

I'm not being spoiled because I read the books years ago. But I hate how every other post it's PD talking about the books or posting some book spoiler.

[Human Snorenado]

If it's in spoiler tags who gives a shit?

...please note that I don't know if he's been spoiler tagging relevant stuff, because it's pd and at this point in his internet life I just assume anything he posts is a shitty troll and skim over it.

[Human Snorenado]

But on the reals, I think comparing the show to the books is a topic of valid discussion for this thread, so

[Himu]

you just gave justin timberlake another hit

how do you feel about that you cunt