"A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics

[benjipwns]

Romney and Santorum have been trading 10-100 vote leads for the last hour or so.

[TakingBackSunday]

Wow. This is the closest race I've seen.

Fucking Iowa, y u no have more people

[Oblivion]

Question: Not knowing how exactly these Republican primaries work, would a hypothetical Santorum win in Iowa actually effect the overall race in any interesting way, or would it just provide some comedy fodder for the cable news networks for a couple of days/weeks?

[Phoenix Dark]

Santorum going hard populist, this is a pretty good off-the-cuff speech. And the exact argument Romney can't make against Obama, but someone like Christie could have. I still think Romney has too much money to lose the nom, but republicans should be paying attention to this, as it's the best way to attack Obama imo.

[Himu]

i can't believe this shit was this close wtf

[benjipwns]

Question: Not knowing how exactly these Republican primaries work, would a hypothetical Santorum win in Iowa actually effect the overall race in any interesting way, or would it just provide some comedy fodder for the cable news networks for a couple of days/weeks?

If the Perry/Bachmann voters flock to him as Gingrich keeps falling as the anti-Romney vote then it would.

But the Iowa Caucuses are non-binding:

None of Iowa's 28 delegates will be bound to any candidate as a result of the Jan. 3 precinct caucuses. As in 2008, the state's delegates will be elected at district caucuses and at the state convention, which is scheduled for later in the year. The January caucuses will elect delegates to the county conventions currently scheduled for March.

It's really a glorified straw poll.

[Oblivion]

Ah, lame to the max.

[Phoenix Dark]

Watch tea partiers tear down Santorum over a small handful of conservative sins in the coming days, further handing the nomination to Romney.

[Mandark]

GOP primaries vary from state to state on whether they do proportional representation, winner-take-all, or WTA on a precinct level.  I don't think the apportionment rules have had a major effect since 1976 or so, though.

The main purposes of Iowa and New Hampshire is that they winnow the candidates.  For example, now that it's becoming clear to more people that Gingrich and Bachmann aren't serious contenders, a good chunk of their support will drift to Santorum and Romney.  Remember how Giuliani was a nominal front-runner who was dead in the water by Florida?

[TakingBackSunday]

failed presidency Romney?  Sure, Mitt, a ussy Dem Congress and the worst session of Congress ever caused Obama to have a bad first term, I agree

[TakingBackSunday]

Also, can someone please explain to me how isolationist domestic policies and abolishing the Fed = a conservative viewpoint?  Some of my repub friends are fucking stupid.

[TakingBackSunday]

One of my friends tried to tell me Paul was THE MOST conservative candidate in the race.  I wanted to "wut" in his face so fucking bad.

[benjipwns]

That's because "conservative" only means "agrees with me" from what I can tell.

Robert Taft. Barry Goldwater. Ronald Reagan. Pat Buchanan. Newt Gingrich. George W. Bush. Rush Limbaugh. Sarah Palin.

It's essentially a pretty meaningless term. The closest you can get to a defining characteristic is anti-abortion and pro-some-point-in-the-past-America.

[TakingBackSunday]

This same guy also tried to tell me that the tea party is only a fiscally conservative movement.  I linked him to five videos of their DC protests and called it a night.

[Phoenix Dark]

But Paul IS the most conservative. The roots of American conservatism are in the federalism of Alexander Hamilton and other founders of the country. Paul's views represent that more than any candidate, on just about every issue. Paul always mentions the republican party used to be quite isolationist for instance, and there's quite a gap between the conservatism of say Hamilton or Taft and Nixon or Reagan.

[Mandark]

What's with all these folks getting into political debates IRL?  I have some conservative/libertarian friends with whom I deliberately avoid serious and contentious political discussions (steering either towards glib banter or away from the topic at all) because I know I'm not going to change their mind and I value their friendship.

I also have some jackass conservative/libertarian acquaintances/colleagues with whom I avoid serious and contentious political discussions because I don't really wanna be talking to them in the first place.



edit: PD, if you're gonna come back here after posting at GAF, take the troll pants off.

[benjipwns]

omg ONE VOTE.

[Phoenix Dark]

edit: PD, if you're gonna come back here after posting at GAF, take the troll pants off.

err what? In reference to Santorum or Paul? I'm confused

[TakingBackSunday]

These are Facebook debates; ie, why I should never engage at anything political online.  I never do this IRL.

I didn't even start this debate: I just commented that "Obama must be lolling that Santorum is winning."

Some conservatives get so butt hurt at anyone having a laugh at the entire situation.

And PD: these guys, even though they're PS majors, have no idea what conservative ideals derived from.  I told them "sure, Paul is conservative in a historical sense, but he's not the ideal conservative in modern rightist thought."

I also said that Paul is not that tea party candidate, but rather splinters youth and smarter tea party votes.  That got me a shitstorm as well.

[Mandark]

Granted, I've got a couple friends who used to get into arguments with each other all the time over that stuff, but there was a spirit of jovial ball-busting to it.

It can just be really, really hard to talk politics to someone who both cares about it deeply and doesn't share your basic assumptions, especially if you want to maintain a friendly social relationship.  And yeah, the people who do regularly jump into political debates are mostly not fun to be around in general, and tend to start a lot of sentences with "Did you know..." in a really belligerent voice.


PD: That Hamilton stuff.

[benjipwns]

Sounds like Mitt Romney won by 14 votes.

[TakingBackSunday]

Granted, I've got a couple friends who used to get into arguments with each other all the time over that stuff, but there was a spirit of jovial ball-busting to it.

No ball-busting here.  It's all "politics: serious business."  Serves me right trying to argue with southern entitled Vanderbilt students.  One of them was a Congressional intern for a summer so he acts like he knows more than anyone because of this.  It was for one of the worst Republicans in Congress, too.  He's one of those people who can't STAND having an argument unless he has the last word and unless the other party involved just goes "fuck it, I don't care THIS much," then he proceeds to get all smug about "winning."

He's not even really a friend, he's just some guy that I know through better friends.

[benjipwns]

One of them was a Congressional intern for a summer so he acts like he knows more than anyone because of this.

The worst people. Even the state level interns. Never will discuss anything without bringing it up. "Well, when I was interning for blah blah blah."

[Phoenix Dark]

What's with all these folks getting into political debates IRL?  I have some conservative/libertarian friends with whom I deliberately avoid serious and contentious political discussions (steering either towards glib banter or away from the topic at all) because I know I'm not going to change their mind and I value their friendship.

I also have some jackass conservative/libertarian acquaintances/colleagues with whom I avoid serious and contentious political discussions because I don't really wanna be talking to them in the first place.



edit: PD, if you're gonna come back here after posting at GAF, take the troll pants off.

Conservatism does not have its roots in federalism?

[Mandark]

This is far from my wheelhouse, but Hamilton was generally on the side of increased federal power over those of the states, tariffs, subsidies certain industries, an expansive interpretation of the welfare clause, direct taxes, and the creation of a national bank, no?  Seems weird calling Ron Paul the undisputed heir to that particular philosophy.  Figured you weren't serious.

[Human Snorenado]

It's official- I got more people to write in my name for Atlanta city council in 2004 than Buddy Roemer will get votes in the 2012 Iowa caucuses.  FEELS GOOD MAN.

[TakingBackSunday]

hahah

Romney wins with 8 votes.  Pathetic for him considering the money he spent.  Santorum is the real winner tonight, and with others dropping out (Perry and Bachmann soon), Santorum is a real challenger.

[Oblivion]

I thought federalism (at least, the Hamiltonian kind) meant supporting having a stronger central government, but I've been seeing a lot of conservative politicians throwing the 'federalist' term around (in a positive way), so either they don't know what it is, or I don't.

[Phoenix Dark]

Romney won Iowa. lol

Pretty weak win and no one will be talking about the fact that he won, but still...it's time for tea party types to realize the more they dick around with a circular firing squad, the easier Romney gets the nom

[benjipwns]

Romney wins with 8 votes.  Pathetic for him considering the money he spent.

Didn't spend anywhere near as much as Perry.

I thought federalism (at least, the Hamiltonian kind) meant supporting having a stronger central government, but I've been seeing a lot of conservative politicians throwing the 'federalist' term around (in a positive way), so either they don't know what it is, or I don't.

It's "both" technically.

Federalism was originally those who wanted to unify into the United States. And that morphed formally into the Hamiltonian central government concept. "Federalism" is from the late 70s Republican circles and basically is renamed "states rights." I'd have to look but I think it's termed "Dual Federalism" in poli sci works.

[TakingBackSunday]

Santorum spent a small fraction compared to Romney though

[Oblivion]

Romney wins with 8 votes.  Pathetic for him considering the money he spent.

Didn't spend anywhere near as much as Perry.

I thought federalism (at least, the Hamiltonian kind) meant supporting having a stronger central government, but I've been seeing a lot of conservative politicians throwing the 'federalist' term around (in a positive way), so either they don't know what it is, or I don't.

It's "both" technically.

Federalism was originally those who wanted to unify into the United States. And that morphed formally into the Hamiltonian central government concept. "Federalism" is from the late 70s Republican circles and basically is renamed "states rights." I'd have to look but I think it's termed "Dual Federalism" in poli sci works.

Ah, okay.

[Boogie]

he must not know that CS Lewis was an open atheist

fucking morons, ugh

And the author of "Mere Christianity", The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, the Screwtape letters, etc... is...........who, exactly?

There is no greater fail, BN, than calling CS Lewis an "open atheist".  ffs, he is one of the cornerstones of modern Christian apologetics.......worse than evangelicals claiming that Einstein was a devout Christian....   

[TakingBackSunday]

I learned I was wrong, no need to make fun of me more than I already did earlier 

[Boogie]

I learned I was wrong, no need to make fun of me more than I already did earlier 

Ya, but the previous page just didn't establish how mind-numbingly ignorant your statement was, so I felt it required some more emphasis.   I shall let it go, now.

(but seriously, dude, that's like claiming Pascal, Newton, or Aquinas was "openly atheist")

[TakingBackSunday]

I didn't know!  I remember watching a Tolkien documentary that talked about how much of an atheist he was and they never explored it beyond that!  I'm sorry  :'(

[Human Snorenado]

While he may have won with 8 votes, Romney actually got 6 fewer than he did in 2008.

[benjipwns]

[CajoleJuice]

lol brandnew

this is like when wrath on twitter thought scorsese was jewish

[Cheebo]

I poked my head in the GAF Ron Paul thread to see the bitter tears of Paul putting everything into Iowa and coming up in third place but they all seem convinced he is in it to win it and came out of Iowa with  momemntum and is going to be the nominee. 

lol C.S. Lewis being atheist? I have no idea how one can be confused about that. That doc on the LOTR DVDs talked about how Tolkien converted him and C.S. Lewis becoming super christian basically within a minute of talking about how he was a atheist. Not to mention I can't see anyone thinking an atheist would write the Narnia books. They are basically a young reader verision of the Bible with talking animals.

lol brandnew

this is like when wrath on twitter thought scorsese was jewish

hahaha that is amazing.

[Barry Egan]

disappointing that Romney took it.  All well.

[benjipwns]

Bachmann out?

Michele Bachmann has canceled plans to campaign in South Carolina on Wednesday, according to the Associated Press, and she plans to hold a news conference in Iowa at 11 a.m. EST.

[Mupepe]

holy fuck reading the GAF Ron Paul thread is fucking irritating.  Especially when you're banned.

Angry Fork is an annoying fucking douchebag.  If I read "Ron Paul is the nuclear option" one more time I'm going to e-fuck him into oblivion.  And that annoying fucking avatar.  Argh!

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I want Perry and Bachman out so their base can FROTH UP some Santorum power

[benjipwns]

Bachmann is out:

Michele Bachmann will end her presidential campaign Wednesday morning at an event in West Des Moines, Iowa, the Associated Press reported.

That might make Perry stay in for South Carolina. Apparently he already bought a bunch of ads to run there.

[Joe Molotov]

Momentorum

[Phoenix Dark]

Lewis was an atheist before he became a Christian so bn is half right!

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Are these early caucuses generally so divided? I mean no candidate got more than 25%, you have three over 20.. Seems pretty damn undecided  as of yet, no? It will be interesting to see with some candidates dropping out! I honestly can't say I want any of them or Barack to win in November though.

No, this is a historical abberation - Romney "won" with the smallest percentage of the vote ever.

Also, THANK YOU BASED GOP: http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/01/newt-gingrich-romney-gop-destroyer

[Human Snorenado]

holy fuck reading the GAF Ron Paul thread is fucking irritating.  Especially when you're banned.

Angry Fork is an annoying fucking douchebag.  If I read "Ron Paul is the nuclear option" one more time I'm going to e-fuck him into oblivion.  And that annoying fucking avatar.  Argh!

In a month or two when he hasn't equaled his high water mark in Iowa anywhere else and slinks home to Texas to make a principled stand and refuse Medicare and Medicaid patients at his practice, just THINK of all the confusion amongst the true believers!

[Great Rumbler]

Lewis was an atheist before he became a Christian so bn is half right!

Lewis being an atheist isn't the story, though, his later conversion is, since that influenced pretty much all of his writings and the latter half of his life.

[Mandark]

They've already established that he's only being held back by Rupert Murdoch and the military-industrial complex.  When your hopes are smashed, it is not time for self-examination, it is time for dolchstoßlegende!

[Phoenix Dark]

Obama growing balls? Color me surprised and happy

The White House confirmed Wednesday morning that President Obama will announce a recess appointment for Richard Cordray to run the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau at a speech in Ohio later today. Cordray was a well-liked Ohio Attorney General until last year, after he was toppled by the GOP midterm wave in 2010.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/01/why-obama-could-recess-appoint-top-consumer-watchdog-anyhow.php?ref=fpblg

Republicans have been keeping congress in session even during recess appointments with pro forma sessions where a congressman hits a gavel then leaves town. Good to see the WH finally came to the conclusion that this gimmick in no way prevents a president from utilizing his constitutional given power to recess appoint people.

(to be fair, democrats pulled the same shit against Bush)

[benjipwns]

I could be mistaken and can't be assed to look it up while playing Batman, but is Cordray the guy nobody in Congress wanted to approve including Democrats because they wanted a figurehead who did basically nothing or is he the next choice and got opposed just because? Might be thinking of something else though...

That said, that whole CFPB thing is an epic clusterfuck of an agency. It's like a more dysfunctional DHS, but for the entire financial system. I have no idea how it could possibly ever work, and I mean "work" in the loosest terms. Like FCC style "work" would be a godsend for it.

[Barry Egan]

 

[Great Rumbler]

Nostraphoenix

[Human Snorenado]

Let's be fair, guys.  He got the all important spots 4 and 5 right.

[Phoenix Dark]

Things always don't go your way but you just have to keep working hard and getting better, and all I'm thinking about is NH right now

[Cheebo]

Things always don't go your way but you just have to keep working hard and getting better, and all I'm thinking about is NH right now

That one is easy though.

1. Romney
2. Nobody cares.


I doubt anyone will get within 10% of him.

[Mandark]

I have no idea how it could possibly ever work, and I mean "work" in the loosest terms. Like FCC style "work" would be a godsend for it.

That's cause you're big into public choice theory, the evo-psych of political science.

[MrAngryFace]

lol WA gov introducing legislation for legalization of gay marriage- religious folks freakin out online. Gonna rule when it PASSES and theyre all butthurt.