Author Topic: Avatar: Willco still hates it  (Read 105977 times)

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Solo

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #600 on: December 20, 2009, 06:57:25 PM »
Trying to pacify me by feigning QoS love? I know your tricks!

Himu

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #601 on: December 20, 2009, 06:57:50 PM »
QoS love?

:yuck
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Barry Egan

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #602 on: December 20, 2009, 07:01:05 PM »
Yeah, if you remove Shinobi's fanaticism, this thread really is a homoerotic lovefest - personal opinions aside.

Because I know at the end of the day, Solo and I can truly appreciate fine art.*

spoiler (click to show/hide)
*Daniel Craig Bond movies.
[close]


Seriously.

When I read Shinobi's replies to your posts in this thread, I imagine him punching the wall, stomping his feet then cursing your name in Korean before he violently punches the keyboard's keys.  :greenshinobi

.

Himu

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #603 on: December 20, 2009, 07:01:28 PM »
I wonder what methods Shinobi would take to commit suicide. Play WoW in a internet cafe for 48 hours without getting up?
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #604 on: December 20, 2009, 07:02:41 PM »
Trying to pacify me by feigning QoS love? I know your tricks!

Hey, I came around, did I not? I think I even told you that after I saw it again in theaters.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #605 on: December 20, 2009, 07:04:26 PM »
:lol
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Solo

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #606 on: December 20, 2009, 07:04:52 PM »
I dont think you ever did tell me you came around on it, Willco. Good for you. Its inferior to CR, but as its own beast, I rather like it.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #607 on: December 20, 2009, 07:06:39 PM »
It's better than all the Pierce Brosnan films save for Goldeneye.

I wonder what methods Shinobi would take to commit suicide. Play WoW in a internet cafe for 48 hours without getting up?

Willco becoming a big Hollywood producer.

My first decree will be to remake Avatar, but this time with a script that's actually good. :smug
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Solo

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #608 on: December 20, 2009, 07:07:40 PM »
It's better than all the Pierce Brosnan films save for Goldeneye.

Good man!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
including Goldeneye too  :P
[close]

Purple Filth

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #609 on: December 20, 2009, 07:34:39 PM »
Willco continue this so we can see GS go insane  :lol

GS's point of view:


The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #610 on: December 20, 2009, 07:46:36 PM »
To be fair, I'm sure he is masturbating to Avatar porn by now.
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fistfulofmetal

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #611 on: December 20, 2009, 07:55:08 PM »
To be fair, I'm sure he is masturbating to Avatar porn by now.

would only be worth watching if it matched the movies CG quality. shitty fanart wont suffice :(
nat

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #612 on: December 20, 2009, 09:09:55 PM »
Pirates of the Caribbean 2 is nothing more than a bloated, inferior Empire Strikes Back, but no one is bringing that up.

Hey, when Pirates 2 came out I went ON RECORD as declaring it "the death of narrative cinema." Quote endquote. And I think the years since have backed me up.

EDIT: Also, I really like Quantum of Solace. Uh. More than Casino Royale. That may be more than even Solo's looking for.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 09:14:22 PM by Synthesizer Patel »
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #613 on: December 20, 2009, 09:18:50 PM »
Who the hell said Pirates 2 was any good? :lol
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drew

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #614 on: December 20, 2009, 09:20:37 PM »
EDIT: Also, I really like Quantum of Solace. Uh. More than Casino Royale. That may be more than even Solo's looking for.

why is this guy an icon again?

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #615 on: December 20, 2009, 09:25:36 PM »
EDIT: Also, I really like Quantum of Solace. Uh. More than Casino Royale. That may be more than even Solo's looking for.

why is this guy an icon again?

I'm the icons' weed hookup
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Eel O'Brian

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #616 on: December 20, 2009, 09:26:03 PM »
i remember being entertained by PotC 2 when I saw it, but i couldn't tell you a single thing that happened in it now if my life depended on it (except that there's a dude with a squid for a head in it), and i never even bothered to watch the third one
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #617 on: December 20, 2009, 09:29:03 PM »
I don't even remember the subtitle to the second Pirates movie. Seriously, I don't.
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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #618 on: December 20, 2009, 09:33:11 PM »
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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #619 on: December 20, 2009, 09:34:45 PM »
Squid Man's Compass
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Eel O'Brian

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #620 on: December 20, 2009, 09:37:03 PM »
:Better Than Avatar
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Diunx

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #621 on: December 20, 2009, 10:38:59 PM »
The only bad thing about QoS was bond not fucking the "bond girl" wtf where they thinking? and Goldeneye is a fucking joke.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #622 on: December 20, 2009, 10:40:10 PM »
I dug that. I like how this new Bond is capable of getting intel without contracting chlamydia.
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Diunx

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #623 on: December 20, 2009, 10:44:04 PM »
In goldeneye's defense Onatop was pretty hot, dat accent :drool
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #624 on: December 20, 2009, 10:45:21 PM »
Famke Janssen, one of the all-time Hollywood babes.
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BlueTsunami

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #625 on: December 20, 2009, 11:01:54 PM »
Yeah, Famke is oh my god. I think shes a giant too. (checked out IMDB, shes 6')
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #626 on: December 20, 2009, 11:05:31 PM »
I saw her in 100 Feet earlier this year, and she's still hot. Has that cougar vibe now.
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Mandark

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #627 on: December 21, 2009, 03:59:39 AM »
You know, GS, I don't think you're taking it personally enough.

When people talk smack about Avatar, they're really talking smack about you.  When Willco says it shouldn't be nominated for an Oscar, he's saying you don't deserve recognition from your peers.  My God, man, Jinfash has just about e-dumped you!

You've got to wake up and realize the stakes here, and stop being so mellow about it.

brawndolicious

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #628 on: December 21, 2009, 05:56:23 AM »
There's no benefit at all to watching this in 3D.

Visually, this scenes can be really nice at times but this is in no way the most visually impressive film I've seen.  The CGI in the last couple Zemeckis films for example looked way better than the CGI in Avatar.  The visuals just don't gel together, especially in the scenes with the Navi, the CGI just feel overdone.  Like really gimmicky and wasted since there's usually never anything going on in the scenes with the Navi (other than horrible dialogue).  The most impressive set pieces honestly end up being the scenes with humans next to them since it actually feels more epic and real.

The story has it's ups and downs but the writing was impressive if this was a made-for-TV Disney movie.  It's just extremely cheesy, cliched, and predictable.  At any point in this movie, you'll know what happens for the next thirty minutes and while there are some funny moments and some memorable one-liners, it is largely fucking shit story-wise.  Like the first time that you see Neytiri, she has a hippy-goddess bs moment that will make you laugh out loud.  Also, the scene where they're dry-humping actually made me and a lot of other people in the theater start giggling and actually made a few people walk out.

Eventually, it just handles the primitive environmentally-minded cultural bullshit really, really badly and that's the whole message of the movie so it makes you wonder how the fuck James Cameron spent ten years and hundreds of millions of dollars on this.  You'll cringe every time that they explain the Navi culture and that's a good 40% of the fucking movie.  It's one very bad hour too long.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 06:00:01 AM by am nintenho »

fistfulofmetal

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #629 on: December 21, 2009, 06:02:19 AM »
 The CGI in the last couple Zemeckis films for example looked way better than the CGI in Avatar.   :greenshinobi

ok
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brawndolicious

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #630 on: December 21, 2009, 06:24:26 AM »
ok
It's the most technically impressive CGI but not the best-looking.  Lemme clarify with the Zemeckis example, his movie's CGI takes liberties with physics of the human body and shows saturated colors and every scene looks like it's getting CGI for something that just can't be done with real human beings.  In that case, the CGI actually makes it easier on the eyes and it lets you know that.  In Avatar, it just looks like uncanny valley when you see the Navi's facial expressions over the cheesy dialogue.  The majority of the time that they use CGI, you don't care.  It's not the focus.  Like I said, it feels gimmicky and wasted but the action scenes where there's real things like human actors mixed in actually look really good because all that's going through your mind is how the visuals gel together.


Btw, some of you guys must be absolutely amazing at predicting plots. There has never been a moment during any film, ever, where I knew exactly what was going to happen for the next 30 minutes.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
When Jake goes meets the Navi leaders for the first time, you know that he'll eventually take some rights of passage (that dragon-taming scene).  When Jake goes back to try to be diplomatic after busting the bulldozer camera, you know that the Navi will be overrun.  When Jake gets the tribes banded together, you know that they'll win.
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There's no twists in the story.  There's nothing unpredictable.  There's nothing original.  My friend said that it feels like the movie smacks you in the face with subtlety.

Cormacaroni

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #631 on: December 21, 2009, 06:31:21 AM »
Sounds like this could have been great if he'd taken as many chances with the story as he did with the visuals. Oh well, still fairly excited to check it out when it opens here (2 days!).
vjj

brawndolicious

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #632 on: December 21, 2009, 06:49:51 AM »
I see. So guessing some of the major plot points that the trailer pretty much shows you, using really broad definitions of said plot points and not getting specific at all, counts as being able to predict the entire movie.
If I watch Groundhog Day, I can guess from the beginning that Bill Murray is going to have a change of character and stop being an asshole, he's going to fall in love with Andie MacDowell, they're going to end up together, and he's eventually going to come out of the time warp.
I guess I do have your power after all.
What does that have to do with anything at all?  I'm not complaining about being able to predict that the good guys will win or that there'll be a typical epic battle sequence at the end.  I'm saying that you can figure out the cause and effect of every major plot point thirty minutes beforehand because this is a very formulaic movie that has a super stereotypical message.  It doesn't do any clever plot twists or surprising deaths.

The writing just doesn't do anything really creative or satisfying and so it feels like all the exposition and cultural background that was written is just irrelevant and doesn't accomplish anything.  TEN FUCKING YEARS dude.

Purple Filth

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #633 on: December 21, 2009, 07:09:48 AM »
So basically after the "Ten Years in the Oven" garbage he decided to play it safe?

if its gets the job done its cool i guess, but i could see why people would be disappointed  :lol

i really need to watch this soon.

brawndolicious

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #634 on: December 21, 2009, 07:27:38 AM »
I really just don't understand this kind of opinion.
So you can guess at some of the major plot points before they happen. You know that there will be a rite of passage of some kind, since just about every tribal culture has one, after all. Great. What you don't know is what that rite of passage will be. And that part of the film is absolutely amazing when you get to it. Maybe you saw it coming, but who cares? It's such a beautiful sequence. Not everything has to be surprising.
The creativity is in all the little details and the way they come together, not in the overarching plot points. If you want to be surprised by every development, this is not your movie. You pretty much know what's going to happen just from watching the trailer. The fun is in the journey the film takes you on as the story unfolds. Sure, on a basic level, you might have seen similar plot developments in other films, but all of those ideas are given new life by the details that shape the world of the film.
I can't help but feel that you really missed the point of the whole thing.
The dragons were cool, but the build up to that scene was forgettable which is a bad thing considering how important it was.  The movie basically has no subtlety in delivering it's message, therefore there's no point where the viewer has to think and everything about the symbolism and metaphors just becomes forgettable.  That's why the movie feels too long and too uncreative.  Because of shitty writing.

Solo

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #635 on: December 21, 2009, 07:42:43 AM »
The CGI in the last couple Zemeckis films for example looked way better than the CGI in Avatar.  

This is the worst attempted troll ever  :lol

Mandark

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Now *that* was an initiation rite
« Reply #636 on: December 21, 2009, 07:51:54 AM »
You know, saying this movie is a rip-off of Pocahontas/Dances With Wolves/Ferngully is pretty unfair.

I mean, what is A Man Called Horse?  Chopped liver?

brawndolicious

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #637 on: December 21, 2009, 07:54:30 AM »
I'm not trolling, I just clarified that I have a subjective opinion on CGI in that it has to actually try to be something fake before it interests me.

GS, what is so interesting about this movie to you exactly?  The movie has A LOT of exposition and Cameron obviously had a fascination with the message and the symbolism.  He did fuck all to deliver on that.  Not being able to make your audience care about the story in a movie about symbolism and metaphors is being a shitty writer.  The only creativity of any kind in this movie is in the visual design and that was all done by concept artists and modelers.  And like I said, most of the CGI focuses on making realistic looking things on a massive scale.  At the end of the day, it delivers visual orgasms between hours of flaccid hippy masturbation.

brawndolicious

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #638 on: December 21, 2009, 07:57:10 AM »
okay so nothing about the concept or the execution of the script is interesting to you, right?  It's just the visual stuff that you like?  I can totally agree with that.

Cormacaroni

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #639 on: December 21, 2009, 08:13:09 AM »
I don't know who could really have expected anything else from the story/script, given Cameron's track record. William Goldman, he's not. I seriously doubt i'd read past pg. 10 of the script for Terminator or Aliens, for example. I still like the films for other reasons, and am prepared to give Avatar a shot.
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BlueTsunami

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #640 on: December 21, 2009, 08:15:43 AM »
Furthermore, my philosophy regarding these kinds of films is to just forget the metaphor.

I greatly enjoy these movies by actively dispelling their worse aspects, in my mind. So in a sense, any movie could be Movie of the Year! :greenshinobi
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Solo

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #641 on: December 21, 2009, 09:09:12 AM »
Seeing this a second time tonight  :tauntaun

Solo

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #642 on: December 21, 2009, 09:18:20 AM »
I have been, mang! I havent gone on as long or as much as you, but Ive spoken up many times in here defending the movie. Its not that I find people's criticisms untrue, but rather that they are unfair - there is a ridiculous double standard being held against this movie compared to the other 50 popcorn flicks released every year.

Mandark

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« Reply #643 on: December 21, 2009, 09:28:06 AM »
Disclaimer up front:  I haven't seen the movie, so I could be wrong on some points.  But from what I've heard, Avatar is a movie where:


1)  A white man

2)  from a technologically advanced civilization

3)  who doesn't think much of the less advanced "savages"

4)  winds up spending time among them.  Although

5)  they are suspicious and/or contemptuous of him at first

6)  he gradually grows respect for their culture

7)  and in turn wins their respect by assimilating their language and customs,

8)  even falling in love with a member of the tribe, whom he sexes up.  However

9)  the militant society to which he belongs is threatening to invade his new tribe and

10) his loyalty is now either divided or entirely shifted.



It doesn't matter whether its meant as an allegory for specific events or not.  The point is that by embracing all these cliches, Avatar fits snugly into the Honkey Gone Native rubric.

That means if you've seen any of the movies people keep comparing it to, you'll know from before the opening credits what the narrative arc is going to be.  Plus, because Cameron chose this particular archetype, it brings the social baggage of those other movies for anyone who's inclined to notice that stuff (or to drop phrases like "cultural appropriation").

If Cameron had made a movie about an ageing insectoid alien who had lived his life as a burglar and was planning one final audacious theft of a shipment of Highpricium before he retired underwent metamorphosis and entered the final phase of his life, everyone would immediately recognize the story, and know what to expect.  I'd actually prefer that one, because heist movies usually don't have pretensions of being social commentary.

Plenty of very good films follow the conventions of a genre, but nothing from the reviews suggests that Avatar has anything in the way of writing or acting to rise above predictability, or that the new technology adds anything other than very realistic images of an alien world.  That's an impressive achievement, and they have Oscars specifically for that kind of stuff.  You know, the ones where the time limit on acceptance speeches is strictly enforced.

Solo

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #644 on: December 21, 2009, 09:28:23 AM »
There is hating, then there is trolling, and then there is sheer lunacy. His Bay comments were the latter.

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #645 on: December 21, 2009, 09:49:59 AM »
That's good to know. ::)
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Mandark

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #646 on: December 21, 2009, 09:52:30 AM »
Go see the movie and then we can talk, Mandark.

See, here I was being all nice and here you go trying to high hat me.

I coulda said something like "anyone willing to pay $50 for a GAF account shouldn't be trusted to wipe himself after pooping, much less practice film criticism," but I didn't.  And what thanks do I get?  For shame, GS, for shame.

CajoleJuice

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #647 on: December 21, 2009, 09:52:54 AM »
:rofl
AMC

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #648 on: December 21, 2009, 09:53:17 AM »
 :lol
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Purple Filth

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #649 on: December 21, 2009, 09:57:57 AM »
Go see the movie and then we can talk, Mandark.

See, here I was being all nice and here you go trying to high hat me.

I coulda said something like "anyone willing to pay $50 for a GAF account shouldn't be trusted to wipe himself after pooping, much less practice film criticism," but I didn't.  And what thanks do I get?  For shame, GS, for shame.

ouch



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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #650 on: December 21, 2009, 10:03:20 AM »
man, this thread is awesome.
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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #651 on: December 21, 2009, 10:07:49 AM »
The Dark Knight should have been nominated, it was a much better movie than Slumdog Millionarie.
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BlueTsunami

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #652 on: December 21, 2009, 10:10:31 AM »
Go see the movie and then we can talk, Mandark.

See, here I was being all nice and here you go trying to high hat me.

I coulda said something like "anyone willing to pay $50 for a GAF account shouldn't be trusted to wipe himself after pooping, much less practice film criticism," but I didn't.  And what thanks do I get?  For shame, GS, for shame.

 
:greenshinobi
 
:9

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #653 on: December 21, 2009, 10:10:40 AM »
By the way, at least Ebert - who gushed about Avatar like a little girl (spellcheck could barely keep up!) - was smart enough not to put it in his Top 10 of 2009.

(Although he did award it a Special Jury Prize, whatever that is.)

I really can't fathom what world someone lives in where they genuinely believe Avatar merits an Oscar nomination for Best Picture. It's not like there are 99 other films with better aggregated scores on Rotten Tomatoes. Oh wait!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 10:21:30 AM by Willco »
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Solo

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #654 on: December 21, 2009, 10:11:44 AM »

Anyway, Solo, forgetting completely about Best Picture, what do you think of Cameron getting a Best Director nod for this? I think he absolutely deserves to be nominated.

He'll get a nomination. He may even win. It will be either him, his ex wife, or the foot fetishist.

Diunx

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #655 on: December 21, 2009, 10:16:55 AM »
Cameron deserves the best director oscar this year, I hate that they always give it to the director of movie winning bp that year.

The last battle gave me a fucking epic hard on, I think he deserves that award more than some guy that filmed monique screaming to a black girl or whatever, the other one that I think deserves it is Cameron's ex wife.
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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #656 on: December 21, 2009, 10:18:25 AM »
Quote from: Green Shinobi
Willco, you have not seen this film, so your opinion is absolutely worthless.

But all these critics have. :smug

(p.s. so has Ebert)

:greenshinobi :smug
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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #657 on: December 21, 2009, 10:18:50 AM »
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By the way, at least Ebert - who gushed about Avatar like a little girl (spellcheck could barely keep up!) - was smart enough not to put it in his Top 10 of 2009.

He put Knowing in his Top 10 though. :-\

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There's no benefit at all to watching this in 3D.

I don't agree with this at all. The 3D is part of the immersion and it's done better than in any other 3D movie out there.
dog

Diunx

  • Humble motherfucker with a big-ass dick
  • Senior Member
Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #658 on: December 21, 2009, 10:20:30 AM »
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By the way, at least Ebert - who gushed about Avatar like a little girl (spellcheck could barely keep up!) - was smart enough not to put it in his Top 10 of 2009.

He put Knowing in his Top 10 though. :-\


wtf? isn't that that shitty looking nic cage movie? :lol
Drunk

The Fake Shemp

  • Ebola Carrier
Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #659 on: December 21, 2009, 10:20:42 AM »
He put Knowing in his Top 10 though. :-\

Man, Avatar must really suck then!
PSP