"A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics

[Eric P]

or, we could just cut corn subsidies

[The Fake Shemp]

That's outrageous, Eric. You'd be trying to fix the actual problem and I won't allow that!

[brawndolicious]

except you can't just cut corn subsidies.  My idea would lead to less demand for corn and sugar cane anyways.  Sucrose is part of the problem too.

[Stoney Mason]

@ :15
[youtube=560,345]0DtwkTS9mq8[/youtube]

Well done Mr President. I salute you. We don't want a repeat of what happened on 24.

Palmer then goes out to make a statement to the press, deeming that the threat is over. He shakes hands with many of the onlookers, one of whom happens to be Mandy, a woman hired in Day 1 to assassinate Palmer. She slips a deadly virus into his hand, and he collapses to the ground, panting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Palmer_(24_character)

[BlueTsunami]

I'm watching the Rachel Maddow show and one of the lead in stories is about threats to members of Congress (Democrats who voted in HCR, obviously). I'm surprised at some of the acts. Has there even been a movement that reacted this violently (words and actions) to members of Congress in recent memory? Maybe its business as usual and it seems worse cause a media spotlight is being thrown on it?

[The Fake Shemp]

Blue falling for liberal propaganda yet again

[BlueTsunami]

 :'(

[Brehvolution]

Yeah, c'mon Blu. I don't see any of these "threats" on Fox News. Stop drinking the koolaid.

[Fragamemnon]

The immigration system and process is completely dysfunctional anyway. It needs reform with our without amnesty, but the reality of the situation is that if you are going to overhaul the immigration process you might as well deal with the huge numbers of undocumented residents/workers (and their families, this is where things get really awkward) at the same time.

I live in an area with a high immigrant population-what we want is for people that are all intents and purposes permanent residents to be able to have the protections/responsibilities of permanent residents under US law.  This isn't about giving away citizenship at the border with a 'si, senor', this is about letting the dude that's been working (and abused by his employers) in the US for years get permanent resident status (with some penalty, in all likelyhood) so he and his family can live his life above, and not under, the table.

It's a hard thing to sell to insulated white people, and even African-Americans, since they don't get the basic rights angle of the whole thing.

[Brehvolution]

I have a feeling that most of these undocumented workers will lose their jobs if they take citizenship. Employers will have to pay them minimum wage which is more than they get paid now.

[pollo]

Do employers have to pay taxes on illegals? Or is everything under the book?

[Fragamemnon]

I have a feeling that most of these undocumented workers will lose their jobs if they take citizenship. Employers will have to pay them minimum wage which is more than they get paid now.

Someone will either do the work or they won't, if the employer can't pay minimum wage then the work won't get done. The law is the law, though, and the ability to not pay them minimum wage has the side effect of giving them preferential hiring over people who could report wage abuses.

[Fragamemnon]

Do employers have to pay taxes on illegals? Or is everything under the book?

Sometimes it is paid under the table no questions asked. Other times there is a fake/stolen SSN used and withholding/taxes are paid (but of course the worker will never get those benefits under current law).

[Eric P]

The Minuteman Civil Defense Corps is no longer.

The Arizona-based border watch group that burst onto the national scene in 2005 sent an email to its members this week announcing the corporation has dissolved.

The group’s president, Carmen Mercer, of Tombstone, said she and the board’s two other directors voted to end the group’s five-year run because they were worried her recent “call to action” would attract the wrong people to the border.

On March 16, Mercer sent out an e-mail urging members to come to the border “locked, loaded and ready” and urged people to bring “long arms.” She proposed changing the group’s rules to allow members to track illegal immigrants and drug smugglers instead of just reporting the activity to the Border Patrol.

“We will forcefully engage, detain, and defend our lives and country from the criminals who trample over our culture and laws,” she wrote in the March 16 e-mail.

Mercer said she received a more feverish response than she expected — 350 personal e-mails she said — and decided the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps couldn’t shoulder the responsibility and liability of what could occur, she said.

“People are ready to come lock and loaded and that’s not what we are all about,” Mercer said. “It only takes one bad apple to destroy everything we’ve done for the last eight years.”

The group formed as Civil Homeland Defense in 2002 and later became the Minuteman Project in April 2005. The named changed again to Minuteman Civil Defense Corps.

To read more, click on the Border Boletín link in the related stories box at top left.

Read more in tomorrow's Arizona Daily Star

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/border/article_7d47c702-378b-11df-95cb-001cc4c03286.html

[Oblivion]

Speaking of immigrants, I love how the teabaggers/republicans fought so hard to make sure that the messicans couldn't buy health insurance, thus making sure that they'll get emergency room care while they (the teabaggers/repubs) still foot the bill afterwards.

[Mandark]

What Frag said.

The tone of the immigration advocates reflects their message: that they should be considered and treated as full-fledged Americans, rather than second-class residents.  That means they should feel confident in making demands of the government like any other constituency, rather than gratefully accepting whatever "benevolent concessions" the rest of society is willing to dole out to them.

[Van Cruncheon]

"government oppression sucks, unless it's oppressing messicans"


where have we heard that before

oh yeah, "states' rights"

[Human Snorenado]

So apparently a package containing the standard "mysterious white powdery substance" showed up at Anthony Weiner's local NYC office, just one day after he went on Bill Orly's show and of course made a fool out of Bill-O.

[Phoenix Dark]

Cantor exposed
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/03/not_exactly_dodge_city.php?ref=fpblg

[Oblivion]

Typical hypocritical libruls. Always thinking the crazies are always on the other team. Guess what? For every wacko right winger that says Obama should be lynched, you always have someone on the other end of the spectrum saying he shouldn't. There are wingnuts on both sides of the aisle.

[Brehvolution]

I guess it true!

The truth will set you free!

[Fragamemnon]

I'd be down with this if it was a one-time thing and came along with stricter immigration enforcement in the future.

All sides in the debate see any amnesty as being a one-time thing and that the reform measure of the bill will reduce the amount of new undocumented workers in the US per year.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Don't corporations like rapidly expanding consumer bases 

[AdmiralViscen]

Maybe they assume that they all voted for Bush.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Republicans think that anyone who can't get a job in a recession (number of people>number of jobs) has a social responsibility to start a  small business.  The unemployed have only themselves to blame for not risking a 9/10 failure rate.

[Mandark]

GS:  You've got one of the most self-centered political philosophies I've come across.

[archie4208]

Republicans think that anyone who can't get a job in a recession (number of people>number of jobs) has a social responsibility to start a  small business.  The unemployed have only themselves to blame for not risking a 9/10 failure rate.

But this is America.  You can make anything out of yourself if you just have enough elbow grease!!!

[Mandark]

Nah, they're mostly about what will benefit you and people with whom you identify.

Hence supporting massive government intervention against immigration and opposing it vis drug trafficking.  If only you could snort a Mexican!

[Phoenix Dark]

"This is why we're here. Because this little white rock sells for 25k a kilo"

[Ichirou]

[Mandark]

Sheesh.  I didn't realize you were gonna take it so personally.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes I did.

[close]

[Mandark]

What is your stance on this, exactly? That anyone who supports enforcement of immigration laws is a selfish prick?

No, just you.

[Mandark]

Summary is here.  Longer explanation here.

[Mandark]

I'm pretty satisfied with how I put it.

You support policies that you believe will benefit you and people with whom you identify.  You're part of the American working/middle class, so you support healthcare subsidies and stronger labor and oppose usury.  You're sometimes a recreational drug user, so you think recreational drugs should be legal.  You were born an American, so you want the government to prevent the inflow of labor and the outflow of capital.

Stuff like that "benevolent concession" line is why librul academic types use privilege as a verb.

[Mandark]

Yeah, this is why I didn't want to play Internet Debate Club on this.  Nobody in the world wants to hear that their beliefs are inconsistent, dumb, or selfish and 99% of the time the cognitive dissonance is resolved by deciding the other people are meanies and they don't know what a swell guy you really are deep down.

Your politics are pretty selfish and uninformed.  Don't get too bent out of shape, though.  You're in the majority!

[Phoenix Dark]

Can't we talk about something constructive, like states rights or natural rights

[Green Shinobi]

Yeah, this is why I didn't want to play Internet Debate Club on this.  Nobody in the world wants to hear that their beliefs are inconsistent, dumb, or selfish and 99% of the time the cognitive dissonance is resolved by deciding the other people are meanies and they don't know what a swell guy you really are deep down.

Your politics are pretty selfish and uninformed.  Don't get too bent out of shape, though.  You're in the majority!

So what you're saying is that you don't see a problem with insulting someone, then refusing to clarify that insult upon request.

What is the point of calling someone selfish if you're unable to explain why? Was that some kind of stream of consciousness post?

If I, for example, call Mupepe a complete asshole out of the blue, then refuse to explain why he's an asshole, that just makes me look like a real prick, and kind of an idiot to boot, doesn't it?

You made this post after I gave an opinion on the illegal immigration debate, so I'm guessing that's what provoked your little outburst. How exactly is my stance on immigration selfish, inconsistent or dumb?

[brawndolicious]

I'm tired but I think he's saying you put a premium on a person getting a first or third world country citizenship based on where their mother's vagina shot them out.

[Green Shinobi]

I'm tired but I think he's saying you put a premium on a person getting a first or third world country citizenship based on where their mother's vagina shot them out.

What alternative would you propose, and what specific policies would you put in place to enact it? Do you foresee any problems with it? If so, how would you deal with them?

Or better yet, let me ask you this:

Do you believe that people from any country should have the right to move to any other country and establish permanent residence there at any time?

If someone moves to a country that provides social entitlements to its citizens, do you believe that person should be able to receive those benefits immediately?

Do you believe that a person who moves to another country should have to learn the country's language in order to gain citizenship?

[AdmiralViscen]

He's saying it because you become enraged at the thought of law enforcement using force to put a stop to drug dealers, but you are ok with law enforcement using "tougher interventions" to prevent people from crossing over a line you can only see a map. If those people are carrying drugs for you to buy later, is it then ok to let them through?

Or because you are willing to "separate the ideal from the process" in the case of murderous drug dealers but unwilling to do so for the people who cross our border every day just trying to find work (but if they are here already then you are ok with it).

Or because you are concerned about an influx of poor people breaking our entitlement system but you are unconcerned about the negative effects of an influx of drug addicts on our entitlement system.

Also on the last page you said you're not an "America is white" guy but you just brought up the language argument. Also on the last page you said you think every country should allow every person to take up residence with no barriers and now you are positioning the opposite argument against am nintenho.

I'm just passing through though.

[Boogie]

He's saying it because you become enraged at the thought of law enforcement using force to put a stop to drug dealers, but you are ok with law enforcement using "tougher interventions" to prevent people from crossing over a line you can only see a map. If those people are carrying drugs for you to buy later, is it then ok to let them through?

Or because you are willing to "separate the ideal from the process" in the case of murderous drug dealers but unwilling to do so for the people who cross our border every day just trying to find work (but if they are here already then you are ok with it).

Or because you are concerned about an influx of poor people breaking our entitlement system but you are unconcerned about the negative effects of an influx of drug addicts on our entitlement system.

Also on the last page you said you're not an "America is white" guy but you just brought up the language argument. Also on the last page you said you think every country should allow every person to take up residence with no barriers and now you are positioning the opposite argument against am nintenho.

I'm just passing through though.

    Dare I say it?

[The Fake Shemp]

My own opinions on this are well-documented, and are amplified by actually living at ground zero for awhile. I'm for documenting and legalizing any illegal immigrants currently in the country, but doling out penalties and mandatory back taxes as a result - otherwise, granting them all the rights of a legal citizen. I think the immigration laws need to be reformed in general.

That said, it's tough to get behind people that march with Mexican flags that have no real grasp on the situation and make remarks like, "We had the land first!" In California, while many bring their family here for a better life, many simply take the money back to Mexico - which is where they prefer to stay.

Yes, woe is the day laborer who is being taken advantage of by greedy American capitalists, but what about the ones that have no desire to give back into the system? I don't think you have to be xenophobic or Green Shinobi to understand why that might rub people the wrong way. Especially families whose relatives came here on boats.

Amnesty is band aid, bleeding heart solution that doesn't really help anything. The real solution (i.e. my pipedream) is to spend the time, resources and money to help Mexicans get their country back and assist in setting up a viable economy, instead of bending them over and totally using them for Chiclets. We will never truly have an smooth relationship with Mexico and illegal immigration will continue to persist if the richest country in the world is saddled next to a third-world country.

[Human Snorenado]

To say nothing of the whole "we're gonna keep buying drugs from your cartels, thus funding their killing of your cops and shit" problem.  We could legalize most drugs and regulate the rest and just start producing them at home instead of all that bullshit but OMG JUST SAY NO!  Yeah that's worked out really well.

[The Fake Shemp]

I'm not necessarily in favor of regulating hard drugs and bringing that kind of turf war to our streets. That sad, there is definitely a case of negligence to blamed on somebody, because the buyers are from here - and why are they not shut down?

I admit they I don't know enough about the border drug trafficking business to make much of a conclusion, but it seems like we're asleep at the wheel.

[Mr. Gundam]

Awesome.

BREAKING NEWS
msnbc.com news services
updated 2 minutes ago

South Korea is investigating whether a naval ship sinking off the west coast of the peninsula was hit by a torpedo fired by the North.

The 1,500-ton vessel, which had more than 100 people on board, started sinking between 9 p.m. and 10 p.m. local time (8 a.m. to 9 a.m. ET) near the island of Baengnyeong in the Yellow Sea. There were unconfirmed reports it had already sunk.

South Korean broadcaster SBS said many sailors were feared dead. A rescue operation was under way.

[The Fake Shemp]

Isn't that essentially the plot of Tomorrow Never Dies? And much like that Bond film, the true villain is undoubtedly Rupert Murdoch.

[Mr. Gundam]

Last time I was getting ready to go to Japan, North Korea was shooting was missles at them. Now I'm getting ready to go back and they sink a South Korean ship. 

[The Fake Shemp]

distantmantra is a spy?

[Mr. Gundam]

I must be. 

[Yeti]

[Mr. Gundam]

(Image removed from quote.)

That's ace.

Yeti

[Brehvolution]

 

[Great Rumbler]

Yeti for Icon

[Mandark]

He's saying it because you become enraged at the thought of law enforcement using force to put a stop to drug dealers, but you are ok with law enforcement using "tougher interventions" to prevent people from crossing over a line you can only see a map. If those people are carrying drugs for you to buy later, is it then ok to let them through?

Or because you are willing to "separate the ideal from the process" in the case of murderous drug dealers but unwilling to do so for the people who cross our border every day just trying to find work (but if they are here already then you are ok with it).

Or because you are concerned about an influx of poor people breaking our entitlement system but you are unconcerned about the negative effects of an influx of drug addicts on our entitlement system.

Also on the last page you said you're not an "America is white" guy but you just brought up the language argument. Also on the last page you said you think every country should allow every person to take up residence with no barriers and now you are positioning the opposite argument against am nintenho.

I'm just passing through though.

Pretty much.

[brawndolicious]

Apparently for this November, there were enough signatures on the petition to put recreational marijuana legalization on the ballot.  I just smoke on rare occasions and I hate the wake & bake type of potheads but I'm going to personally vote for it because I think it's a waste of police resources.

But what I'm really interested in is how the commercials against it will go.  Obviously the pro-weed groups will say it's not any worse than alocohol or tobacco and it's taxable and whatever.  But how can the anti-weed groups shape the argument?  They can't say it's any worse than other substances that most Americans have legally consumed.  The biggest con I can see is that maybe this would force drug dealers to move onto non-gateway drugs.

The federal drug czar is apparently not happy about this either but I don't see the federal government really caring.  I mean, this would legalize growing and smoking it for yourself.  That sounds to me like it would be too big to control.

[Oblivion]

Seems James Cameron is kind of redeemed. Apparently he called Glenn Beck a 'fucking asshole'.

[Eric P]

shamelessly stolen from qt3

[Phoenix Dark]

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/palin-everyone-here-today-supporting-john-mccain-we-are-all-part-of-that-tea-party-movement.php?ref=fpb

I wonder what McCain is thinking as she rambles on

[Eric P]

i hope this works
i hope this works

[Barry Egan]

.