"A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics

[Stoney Mason]

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/palin-everyone-here-today-supporting-john-mccain-we-are-all-part-of-that-tea-party-movement.php?ref=fpb

I wonder what McCain is thinking as she rambles on

Like he gives a fuck.

One of the more silly images built up earlier in the decade was John McCain the "honorable" man in a sea of dishonorable politicians. Our media sucks.

[Mandark]

intellectually, i really dislike the compulsory element of it. prgamatically, i am unsure how this can be implemented well. we shall see!

The mandate's had a weird ride, politically.

During the primaries, it was taken for granted that the mandate was a progressive feature of the Edwards and Clinton health proposals.  There was a lot of commentary at the time about how Obama's plan "doesn't reach universality" or "is to the right of" the others based on that one difference.

But the mandate in the US was originally supported by conservative wonks, and in Australia was pushed by Tory John Howard.  I remember a primary debate where Romney had to defend the MA plan he signed, and he singled out the mandate as being conservative.  It's Mitt Romney, so who knows what he actually believed, but he certainly thought that was the part which would play best to a GOP audience.

Obama's advisers believed that they could get close enough to full participation without a mandate and avoid adverse selection problems, because of research showing that most of the uninsured are priced out of the market, not that they don't want coverage.  Obama wound up demagoguing the issue against Hillary, being atypically disingenuous about it, but didn't fight against including a mandate in the actual bill.  Sort of surprised the opposition didn't make a bigger deal of his campaign quotes.

[ToxicAdam]

.  But how can the anti-weed groups shape the argument?  They can't say it's any worse than other substances that most Americans have legally consumed. 

There are plenty of studies that shows links of use to schizophrenia and other mental illnesses. You can say that it is no worse than other legal drugs, but those drugs do not trigger underlying psychosis through casual use.

That's one way to attack it, but I think most Americans think of weed as a safe drug and probably wouldn't respond to it (or change their opinion on it).

I was a heavy user after high school until I was about 23 ... but I would vote against it. 

[Mandark]

M. Night Shyamalan could make a movie about GS.  He wanders the internets annihilating people, only you find out at the end that he's the one constantly getting annihilated and you've been seeing things through his perspective as an unreliable narrator.

[Mandark]

Since it would be tough to visualize your entire post history, I think they'd use a pullback shot showing the main character spooning a Neytiri love pillow, going out through the window and revealing a world that looked completely different from the one depicted up to this point in the film, accompanied by a mournful and slightly disconcerting cello score.

[brawndolicious]

.  But how can the anti-weed groups shape the argument?  They can't say it's any worse than other substances that most Americans have legally consumed. 

There are plenty of studies that shows links of use to schizophrenia and other mental illnesses. You can say that it is no worse than other legal drugs, but those drugs do not trigger underlying psychosis through casual use.
That's one way to attack it, but I think most Americans think of weed as a safe drug and probably wouldn't respond to it (or change their opinion on it).
I was a heavy user after high school until I was about 23 ... but I would vote against it. 

Eh, well do you remember any links to the studies because I want to read through them.  I can totally see a mentally ill person turning to drugs though so it's relevant if it's any different than alcohol consumption and mentally ill people, otherwise it is about as definitive as saying being homeless makes you mentally ill.

what exactly about it's effects make you think it's worth the police's time?

[Mandark]

While "a study says" is far from definitive, I'm pretty sure the researchers knew to control for whether the person was already diagnosed with a mental disorder.

[brawndolicious]

While "a study says" is far from definitive, I'm pretty sure the researchers knew to control for whether the person was already diagnosed with a mental disorder.

I don't doubt the researchers' competence but I do doubt how objectively a journalist would report the story.

[ToxicAdam]

.  But how can the anti-weed groups shape the argument?  They can't say it's any worse than other substances that most Americans have legally consumed. 

There are plenty of studies that shows links of use to schizophrenia and other mental illnesses. You can say that it is no worse than other legal drugs, but those drugs do not trigger underlying psychosis through casual use.
That's one way to attack it, but I think most Americans think of weed as a safe drug and probably wouldn't respond to it (or change their opinion on it).
I was a heavy user after high school until I was about 23 ... but I would vote against it. 

Eh, well do you remember any links to the studies because I want to read through them.  I can totally see a mentally ill person turning to drugs though so it's relevant if it's any different than alcohol consumption and mentally ill people, otherwise it is about as definitive as saying being homeless makes you mentally ill.

Here's a collection of 30+ different studies that find links:
http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html#can

Here's one that is especially damning:
http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/002684.html



I only take a great interest in the topic because my college (era) roommate was a wake&baker and slowly developed into a schizo over the course of the years I lived with him. Marijuana did a great job in "muting" his paranoia, but it seemed to make his sober state worse and worse as the years went on. I didn't think much of it at the time, because in 1996 no one really wrote about it. It wasn't until the past 6 or 7 years that I have seen all these studies pop up that it made me radically change my opinion on weed.

But it's kind of one of those chicken or the egg things. Did the weed make him worse, or did he seek more weed because he was getting worse? I guess you could say the same about any drug.

[Phoenix Dark]

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201003260027

[Boogie]

Since it would be tough to visualize your entire post history, I think they'd use a pullback shot showing the main character spooning a Neytiri love pillow, going out through the window and revealing a world that looked completely different from the one depicted up to this point in the film, accompanied by a mournful and slightly disconcerting cello score.

You are really losing your edge. I had hoped to argue against the real Mandark, not this lazy, half-assed version of you.

You've annihilated enough people to know how it's done. Even if a guy makes the most self-contradicting, convoluted post ever, you can't just pre-assume annihilation. You have to actually do the work.

Furthermore, do you not see how ludicrous it is to argue against my stance on illegal immigration using almost exclusively my stance on the legalization of drugs? Imagine for a moment that I was either completely against drugs, or I had never made any posts on the matter, and you had no idea what my stance on drugs was. What would you say to me then? Answer that question and you'll have made a real argument for the first time in this debate.

 

Sorry, Mandark, you're losing your edge.  You can't be lazy and half-ass it against GS.  You have to be at the top of your game to be able to go toe-to-toe with his 160 IQ.

[AdmiralViscen]

I'm just passing through though.

And getting completely destroyed.

nah

Since it would be tough to visualize your entire post history, I think they'd use a pullback shot showing the main character spooning a Neytiri love pillow, going out through the window and revealing a world that looked completely different from the one depicted up to this point in the film, accompanied by a mournful and slightly disconcerting cello score.

You've annihilated enough people to know how it's done. Even if a guy makes the most self-contradicting, convoluted post ever, you can't just pre-assume annihilation. You have to actually do the work.

I'm sure Mandark is really eager to 'put in the work' after I teed off on your face and you came back with exactly the same bluster. My post was more about demonstrating why it is a waste of time to get into the trenches with you than anything else.

[Human Snorenado]

You know, sometimes I wonder why exactly GS hasn't ever caught on that when like EVERYONE BUT YOU is saying the same exact thing, perhaps it's you and your perception of reality that aren't quite jiving with how things really are.  But then I remember that he's really into prog rock and it all makes sense!

[Human Snorenado]

The prosecution rests re: prog rock, your honor.

[Human Snorenado]

The prosecution would like to point out that the lead singer of Rush, Geddy Lee, has a "singing" voice that approximates the noise an elf makes while getting tortured. 

[Human Snorenado]

The prosecution will readily admit to being under the influence of more than one psychotropic drug at the time of the incident... however, the prosecution would like to note that the elves in question were being tortured by being forced to read Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

I'm not in alignment with JD's politics, but his stance on elves is right on. 

[Human Snorenado]

Also his apparent dwarf fetish- dwarves love GOLD after all.

[Van Cruncheon]

yeah, i think jd has elves nailed dead-to-rights, and i'd like to thank both him and triumph for saving us from the gruesome tragedy that is green shinobi's last n posts in this thread

also, rush

[Human Snorenado]

also, rush

What do you know, Prole... you like Tool.  TOOL!

[Van Cruncheon]

tool

[The Fake Shemp]

I also enjoy Rush and Tool.

[Eric P]

oh yeah, me too

[Van Cruncheon]

libertarians, jews, aging hipsters, and weeboos unite against triumph under the banner of prog rock :usa

come, join us in the court of crimson king, hippie

[The Fake Shemp]

We should start a prog rock party to unite the country

[Vizzys]

[youtube=560,345]5nmOMo4OPi4[/youtube]

[Eric P]

Oh god I was kidding.  The most progressive music I like is free jazz. 

[Barry Egan]

can someone take Old Yeller out back to the shed already? 

[Human Snorenado]

libertarians, jews, aging hipsters, and weeboos unite against triumph under the banner of prog rock :usa

come, join us in the court of crimson king, hippie

I like GOOD prog rock, like you know King Crimson and Radiohead's proggier (is that a word? it is now!) stuff.  However, I'm totally in the camp of "just because playing that shit is difficult doesn't make it GOOD" as far as music appreciation goes.  And Rush is turrible.

[Eel O'Brian]

intellectually, i really dislike the compulsory element of it. prgamatically, i am unsure how this can be implemented well. we shall see!

some of us are going to be seeing a helluva lot more than others

[Ichirou]

[youtube=560,345]RpOUctySD68[/youtube]

[Green Shinobi]

You know, sometimes I wonder why exactly GS hasn't ever caught on that when like EVERYONE BUT YOU is saying the same exact thing, perhaps it's you and your perception of reality that aren't quite jiving with how things really are.  But then I remember that he's really into prog rock and it all makes sense!

Okay. First of all, what exactly are my apparent opponents in this "debate" actually saying? Neither Mandark nor Viscen has offered any explanation of why my position on the issue of illegal immigration is wrong or ignorant. I have no idea of where either of them stand on the matter, because they haven't said ANYTHING, other than that I'm a selfish person because of the opinion I have.

Also, I'm not hugely into prog. I like King Crimson, Genesis, Pink Floyd and Tool, and I like a few Rush songs.

yeah, i think jd has elves nailed dead-to-rights, and i'd like to thank both him and triumph for saving us from the gruesome tragedy that is green shinobi's last n posts in this thread

Why exactly are my recent posts a gruesome tragedy? Because I think that the ability to move to a completely different country, live and work there and use social services provided by that country's government is a privilege and not a right? Because while I do support controlled, legal immigration, I don't think a complete open-door policy in the U.S. would work?

If you feel that such a position is in some way ignorant, selfish or mean-spirited, by all means, explain why.

I'm really sure the mob-ee could be making his points better.

I'm sure I could have, if I had really gone into this with that intention. Initially I was commenting solely on certain mindsets and attitudes of a few immigration reform advocates that I happened to find fault with. Didn't even intend to have a debate until I got hit out of the blue with a completely unprovoked and, frankly, a pretty damn personal, petty and mean-spirited insult from Mandark.

[Van Cruncheon]

your last n posts are a sad spectacle because of your tragically butthurt tone. personally, i'm not even following either set of arguments; i'm just pissed that you can't roll with a few sucker punches and have effectively derailed our political thread in order to salve your soul hurtin'.

[Ichirou]

Tool rocks.  I have all their albums.

[Van Cruncheon]

i'll keep diggin'

'till i feel something

[Ichirou]

Save the carrots! Let the rabbits wear glasses!

[AdmiralViscen]

You teed off on my face, Viscen? 

None of what you said attempted to address my stance on illegal immigration AT ALL. You're a fucking joke, man.

Didn't have to. You asked for Mandark's reasons for describing your politics as self-centered and I gave them to you. I don't even necessarily have to disagree with your views on immigration. I certainly don't care to debate them.

can someone take Old Yeller out back to the shed already? 

Yeah, Viscen's schtick is getting pretty tired, isn't it?

About as tired as Ichirou's mom after I fucked her!!!!

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ichirou Ichirou Ichirou

[close]

[Ichirou]

Did you really fuck my mom?

[AdmiralViscen]

 

[Ichirou]

:spitzer

[The Fake Shemp]

I watched.

[Mr. Gundam]

Were you dressed up as Santa Claus when you fucked Ichi's mom?

[Ichirou]

That would explain a lot of things.

[Fresh Prince]

I watched.

Would you choke her if she wanted it?

[Van Cruncheon]

funny how when you ignore provokation the thread goes unshitted, eh

[Ichirou]

I watched.

Would you choke her if she wanted it?

Willco would be too busy choking his chicken.

[AdmiralViscen]

Who's talking about drug use or legalization? We were talking about your views on the use of "tougher interventions" in police activity. But no one really cares anymore I don't think.

[Green Shinobi]

Who's talking about drug use or legalization? We were talking about your views on the use of "tougher interventions" in police activity. But no one really cares anymore I don't think.

No, you're just contradicting yourself left and right and making your self-applied tag look fucking stupid beyond belief, but you're right, no one cares. I'm done talking about this shit. If anyone wants to actually talk about immigration, I'd be game.

[Eric P]

Tea Parties are going broke.

the market works

[AdmiralViscen]

Who's talking about drug use or legalization? We were talking about your views on the use of "tougher interventions" in police activity. But no one really cares anymore I don't think.

No, you're just contradicting yourself left and right and making your self-applied tag look fucking stupid beyond belief, but you're right, no one cares. I'm done talking about this shit. If anyone wants to actually talk about immigration, I'd be game.

Are my posts really long enough to contain contradictions? Did I even come up with my tag?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

no

[close]

Tea Parties are going broke.

the market works

For realsies? What link do you have?

[The Fake Shemp]

Don't you think if someone believed their political views were truly unselfish, that they wouldn't need to defend them with such fervor to people they have never met via the Internet?

[Dickie Dee]

Tea Parties are going broke.

the market works

Their member's gov't benefits can only stretch so far

[Eric P]

Tea Parties are going broke.

the market works

For realsies? What link do you have?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704734304575120362014554880.html

going broke is base hyperbole

[Brehvolution]

Tea Parties are going broke.

the market works

Not only that, they are affecting their communities too:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6932410.htmlT

But Texas can only get those seats, and the congressional clout that comes with it, if Texans stand up to be counted. Any conservative revolt would only reduce the representation in conservative areas of the state, such as rural Texas and the outer rings of suburbs surrounding its largest cities.
Loss of seats and money

What's more, an under-count in Texas could cost the state more than just representation.

For every Texan missed, the state will lose an estimated $12,000 over the next decade in federal funding for transportation, agriculture, health, education, and housing, said Frances Deviney, director of Texas Kids Count, a nonpartisan group in Austin.

Deviney says Texas could lose “hundreds of millions of dollars in lost opportunities” because of uncounted residents.

“We've got that hard-to-count element, along with these fringe (anti-government) groups that are advocating resistance,” she said. “They think they are hurting the government. They are really hurting themselves and their communities.”

[Phoenix Dark]

[youtube=560,345]_YRQlUsdA3U[/youtube]

[Eric P]

it's not about race

it's about making certain that people call in on the right line

[huckleberry]

"I know they have an opinion, but...."


 

[The Fake Shemp]

it's not about race

it's about making certain that people call in on the right line

Black people aren't independents or republicans, they're democrats - they're not calling on the right line!

[Phoenix Dark]

was kinda expecting/hoping for the obvious coon-span instead of the boring black-span

[Barry Egan]

I'm pretty sure that is the same exact guy who called Jimmy Dean in order to complain about their 12 oz. sausage rolls.