"A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics

[Phoenix Dark]

I would so kill to create an alternative history so I could place 70s era Nixon in today's GOP.

[Phoenix Dark]

"I think that two wrongs don't make a right. And I have been in the situation of counseling young girls, not 13 but 15, who have had very at risk, difficult pregnancies. And my counsel was to look for some alternatives, which they did. And they found that they had made what was really a lemon situation into lemonade."

-- Nevada U.S. Senate candidate Sharron Angle (R), quoted by the Huffington Post, on advising a young girl raped by her father against seeking an abortion.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2010/07/08/quote_of_the_day.html

[Cheebs]

It's going to be hilarious to watch every vulnerable democrat lose EXCEPT Harry Reid. 

[Beardo]

It's going to be hilarious to watch every vulnerable democrat lose EXCEPT Harry Reid. 

Especially since he has a lot of money from big drug companies that are supporting him.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Drug-lobby-showers-money-on-its-hero-Harry-Reid-97882064.html

[Phoenix Dark]

"I think that two wrongs don't make a right. And I have been in the situation of counseling young girls, not 13 but 15, who have had very at risk, difficult pregnancies. And my counsel was to look for some alternatives, which they did. And they found that they had made what was really a lemon situation into lemonade."

-- Nevada U.S. Senate candidate Sharron Angle (R), quoted by the Huffington Post, on advising a young girl raped by her father against seeking an abortion.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2010/07/08/quote_of_the_day.html

Thank you for sharing this laudable anecdote.

I figured you'd be upset that the sanctity of child birth could be compared to a fruit.

[Cheebs]

I guess you must love him a lot then Beardo.

[Eric P]

"I think that two wrongs don't make a right. And I have been in the situation of counseling young girls, not 13 but 15, who have had very at risk, difficult pregnancies. And my counsel was to look for some alternatives, which they did. And they found that they had made what was really a lemon situation into lemonade."

-- Nevada U.S. Senate candidate Sharron Angle (R), quoted by the Huffington Post, on advising a young girl raped by her father against seeking an abortion.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2010/07/08/quote_of_the_day.html

Thank you for sharing this laudable anecdote.

if life gives you rape, make rapeade

[Phoenix Dark]

"I think that two wrongs don't make a right. And I have been in the situation of counseling young girls, not 13 but 15, who have had very at risk, difficult pregnancies. And my counsel was to look for some alternatives, which they did. And they found that they had made what was really a lemon situation into lemonade."

-- Nevada U.S. Senate candidate Sharron Angle (R), quoted by the Huffington Post, on advising a young girl raped by her father against seeking an abortion.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2010/07/08/quote_of_the_day.html

Thank you for sharing this laudable anecdote.

if life gives you rape, make rapeade

As long as it's not coming from the federal government

[Beardo]

I guess you must love him a lot then Beardo.

Thats how I make all of my political decisions. Who has more corporate dollars supporting them.

If only I had some kind of meaningful political philosphy like liberals.  :'(

[Dickie Dee]

but i thought political donations are a form of protected speech 

[Cheebs]

I guess you must love him a lot then Beardo.

Thats how I make all of my political decisions. Who has more corporate dollars supporting them.

Based on your candidate preferences it tends to seem that way.

[Mandark]

Biggest Defaulters on Mortgages Are the Rich

Yet another data point refuting the idea that dirty poors, abetted by government largesse, crashed the economy.  Not that it'll make any difference with the people who choose to believe that story.

A couple years ago when conservatives first dredged up the CRA to explain the housing bubble (whose existence most of them had vehemently denied), it struck me that I was seeing the birth of a meme.  People were creating an alternative history which would be repeated and passed down within their community for years to come.

It was like seeing Landon Donovan score that goal against Algeria and instantly knowing I'd see it replayed on ESPN as an iconic moment decades from now, only way more depressing.

And yeah, all political groups and communities create their own shared narratives including liberals yadda yadda.  But this one 1) is just factually false, in ways that are (and have been) explained in simple terms, 2) precludes any discussion of what caused the massive downturn that cost millions of people their jobs or how to prevent it happening again, and 3) finds a way to blame the people who are already getting the shit end of the social contract, as if they need to be taught a lesson.

How is that right?  That's not right.


link via Prole

[Beardo]

It's no secret that the majority of the people who got in during the housing bubble where already well off. Which means all this bailout for the mortgages and housing industry is helping rich people.


God Jon liberals.

[Phoenix Dark]

It's no secret that the majority of the people who got in during the housing bubble where already well off. Which means all this bailout for the mortgages and housing industry is helping rich people.


God Jon liberals.

I always enjoy your thoughtful insight into economic/political issues.

[Mandark]

If it's no secret, then why are the National Review, Weekly Standard, Wall Street Journal, and Ron Paul telling me that the Community Reinvestment Act caused the bubble?  For that matter, why all the ink devoted to subprime mortgages in every conceivable media outlet the last few years?

Plus I could swear that the TARP funds went to recapitalize financial institutions rather than to mortgages and the housing industry.

[Eric P]

How is that right?  That's not right.

sounds pretty Right to me.

[Beardo]

Because those laws have UNINTENDED consequences. A term that is lost on bleeding hearts.

[Eric P]

Minnesota state Rep. Tom Emmer, the presumptive Republican nominee for governor, has put forward a new policy for helping the state's businesses: Lowering the minimum wage for waiters and waitresses, and forcing them to rely more heavily on tips.

what do you think the unintended consequences for this would be?

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/07/05/emmer-small-business-tips/?refid=0&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+MPR_NewsFeatures+%28News+%26+Features+from+Minnesota+Public+Radio%29

[Phoenix Dark]

Minnesota state Rep. Tom Emmer, the presumptive Republican nominee for governor, has put forward a new policy for helping the state's businesses: Lowering the minimum wage for waiters and waitresses, and forcing them to rely more heavily on tips.

what do you think the unintended consequences for this would be?

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/07/05/emmer-small-business-tips/?refid=0&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+MPR_NewsFeatures+%28News+%26+Features+from+Minnesota+Public+Radio%29

lowering the deficit is the most important issue facing America

[Oblivion]

I like how repubs blame Clinton for signing the bill that repealed Glass-Steagal, while at the same time being against reinstating it.

[Dickie Dee]

I'd also like to ask Beardo why commercial real estate, which had no laws passed to benefit those darkies, and no New Deal institutions like Fannie and Freddie Mae to shake your fist at, are in as bad/worse shape then residential real estate.

[Mandark]

Because those laws have UNINTENDED consequences. A term that is lost on bleeding hearts.

So everybody knows that "the majority of the people who got in during the housing bubble where already well off", yet the bubble was caused by poor people getting CRA-regulated loans?

I may be just a simple Southern lawyer dimwitted liberal Utopian, but that strikes me as a wee bit contradictory.  Make it make sense for me.




Eric P:  Oh, I'd say the effects of that bill are pretty well intended.

[Brehvolution]

Because those laws have UNINTENDED consequences. A term that is lost on bleeding hearts.

Eric P:  Oh, I'd say the effects of that bill are pretty well intended.

Needed to be quoted.

[Dickie Dee]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

Combat Bibles for everyone!

[Oblivion]

When even Bill O' the clown refuses swallow Palin's bullshit, you know the end times are coming.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/node/38286

[Beardo]

yet the bubble was caused by poor people getting CRA-regulated loans?

I wasnt defending this theory.

Eric P:  Oh, I'd say the effects of that bill are pretty well intended.

The bill intended for the economy to crash and burn??

[Phoenix Dark]

When even Bill O' the clown refuses swallow Palin's bullshit, you know the end times are coming.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/node/38286

He's done this before. It seems like he's either using his interviews with her to pretend to be fair and balanced, or he really thinks she's a dumbass

[Phoenix Dark]

Overall I like Bill. The thing I hate is his "I don't know what's true or not" act which is used to make ridiculous claims or assertions, as well as the typical slanders he throws at dems/liberals. Everything else makes me chuckle, including the moral warrior act

[Phoenix Dark]

also

This is a reflection not only on her unpreparedness, but the generally inadequate "solution" conservatives have for illegal immigration. NO AMNESTY makes for a nice bumper sticker, but it's not that simple on a policy level. I'd love to hear a plan on how to logically deport 12 million people, as well as the estimated cost of the operation. It's logistically impossible, and even if it was possible it would be a pretty ugly sight for all to see.

Crack down on businesses that hire illegal immigrants. Fix the broken process of becoming an American citizen, making it faster and more efficient; when liberals talk of illegal immigrants simply "getting in the back of the line" that's another case of a ridiculous solution, considering the line is broken. If increasing border control is required to get conservatives along, fine (although if you send 5k they'll want 6k, and when you send 6k they'll want 10k).

These solutions are far more logical, efficient, and far less costly than building a giant fence, deporting millions of people, and militarizing the border. I thought conservatives were supposed to be good at not wasting tax payer money "we don't have."

[Mandark]

I wasnt defending this theory.

Then what unintended consequences were you talking about?  Clear up your antecedents, kid.

[Oblivion]

O'Reilly gets way more shit than he deserves online.  He's pretty clear that his show is an opinion show.  Hannity is on right afterwards and is leagues worse and doesn't have a sense of humor.  Bills probably feels like a Marxist in that place

LOL. No, dude. Being the thinnest kid at fat camp (to quote Jon Stewart) does not warrant any praise. Bill O'' might occasionally give his librul guests a chance to speak before cutting off their mic, but he's still a lying, opportunistic, staunchly anti-Obama doucebag.

[Eric P]

i dunno

i'm kind of turning staunch  anti-obama...

[Flannel Boy]

i dunno

i'm kind of turning staunch  anti-obama...

This is what happens when you start dating a Republican, even if he's a Jewish screenwriter.

[Cheebs]

It'd be far easier to become anti-Obama after all the disappointments this year if the alternative wasn't well, you know.

[Phoenix Dark]

Next year we'll get even more watered down bills to wring our hands over while the right paints them as socialist takeovers.

Huckabee 2012 

[Oblivion]

i dunno

i'm kind of turning staunch  anti-obama...

Maybe Obama's suppressing his inner Stalin for his second term?

[Human Snorenado]

i dunno

i'm kind of turning staunch  anti-obama...

Yeah.

Like, I understand that there are certain logistical limits to what he can do, but I really feel like they painted themselves into a corner by not making the argument immediately after he was inaugurated that the economic collapse was a direct result of TOO LITTLE F'N GOVT, and that guess what?  Fuck you banksters, we're taking your shit over, firing all of you and replacing you with non-sociopaths. 

Instead we've gotten failed attempts to convince Republicans that actually governing the country (beyond tax cuts and wars, of course) is a good idea, and here we are in shitsville. 

I'm pretty fairly disenchanted with him and could definitely see myself either not voting in 2012 or voting for a 3rd party candidate again.

[Phoenix Dark]

Don't forget the whole "freaking out over the deficit" thing. Still can't believe he's playing along with that bullshit in the middle of an economic crisis.

Like you said, it's not like he can say fuck yall and do whatever he wants. There are enough republicans and republi-democrats to ensure everything is held to the highest possible conservative standard (you know, the standard that was buried with Jimmy Hoffa during Bush's years). Unless democrats get rid of the filibuster in January. I forgot what made me ask Matthew Yglesias on twitter if he thought they would, and he basically said he didn't think democrats were interested in passing progressive legislation. The filibuster gives them an excuse, they won't get rid of it.

[Oblivion]

Don't forget the whole "freaking out over the deficit" thing. Still can't believe he's playing along with that bullshit in the middle of an economic crisis.

Yeah, that's one thing that's absolutely baffling because it's both immensely stupid policy AND politics. I mean, it's not gonna make Joe Teabagger any more willing to vote democrat this fall. And the republicans will blame him for not cutting spending even if he does it. Not to mention cutting spending during a crucial time such as now could most likely end up increasing unemployment, which will increase the deficit as well...and goddamnobamayoustupidnigifijfoajfdoiajdgoiajfiajffdlkkfkflj

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Though, to give him some credit, he was the only one at the G20 summit that advised everyone to continue spending.

[close]

[Dickie Dee]

Not to mention the one real debt breaker is health care - and how many of these "economic conservatives" are interested in reining in that?

Meanwhile, SS is probably one of the most stable, longterm successful programs out there and they're measuring it up for the chopping block (but not if you're over 58, disproptionatly voting seniors  ) just because they can.

I saw the term "Catfood Commission" being bandied about and hope it catches on

[Eric P]

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Yeah.

Like, I understand that there are certain logistical limits to what he can do, but I really feel like they painted themselves into a corner by not making the argument immediately after he was inaugurated that the economic collapse was a direct result of TOO LITTLE F'N GOVT, and that guess what?  Fuck you banksters, we're taking your shit over, firing all of you and replacing you with non-sociopaths.

Instead we've gotten failed attempts to convince Republicans that actually governing the country (beyond tax cuts and wars, of course) is a good idea, and here we are in shitsville.

I'm pretty fairly disenchanted with him and could definitely see myself either not voting in 2012 or voting for a 3rd party candidate again.

Obama and Co. dropped the ball repeatedly in almost every crucial moment and I won't be shedding tears when the collective Democratic asshole is prolapsed after November.

[The Fake Shemp]

Obama sucks, not going to vote him in again if all we get is Republican controlled legislation. Might as well let them take complete control if the Dems are going to let them walk all over them.

[Stoney Mason]

This explains a lot about people.

How facts backfire
Researchers discover a surprising threat to democracy: our brains

By Joe Keohane
July 11, 2010

It’s one of the great assumptions underlying modern democracy that an informed citizenry is preferable to an uninformed one. “Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government,” Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1789. This notion, carried down through the years, underlies everything from humble political pamphlets to presidential debates to the very notion of a free press. Mankind may be crooked timber, as Kant put it, uniquely susceptible to ignorance and misinformation, but it’s an article of faith that knowledge is the best remedy. If people are furnished with the facts, they will be clearer thinkers and better citizens. If they are ignorant, facts will enlighten them. If they are mistaken, facts will set them straight.

Maybe not. Recently, a few political scientists have begun to discover a human tendency deeply discouraging to anyone with faith in the power of information. It’s this: Facts don’t necessarily have the power to change our minds. In fact, quite the opposite. In a series of studies in 2005 and 2006, researchers at the University of Michigan found that when misinformed people, particularly political partisans, were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds. In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs. Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation. Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger.

This bodes ill for a democracy, because most voters — the people making decisions about how the country runs — aren’t blank slates. They already have beliefs, and a set of facts lodged in their minds. The problem is that sometimes the things they think they know are objectively, provably false. And in the presence of the correct information, such people react very, very differently than the merely uninformed. Instead of changing their minds to reflect the correct information, they can entrench themselves even deeper.

“The general idea is that it’s absolutely threatening to admit you’re wrong,” says political scientist Brendan Nyhan, the lead researcher on the Michigan study. The phenomenon — known as “backfire” — is “a natural defense mechanism to avoid that cognitive dissonance.”

These findings open a long-running argument about the political ignorance of American citizens to broader questions about the interplay between the nature of human intelligence and our democratic ideals. Most of us like to believe that our opinions have been formed over time by careful, rational consideration of facts and ideas, and that the decisions based on those opinions, therefore, have the ring of soundness and intelligence. In reality, we often base our opinions on our beliefs, which can have an uneasy relationship with facts. And rather than facts driving beliefs, our beliefs can dictate the facts we chose to accept. They can cause us to twist facts so they fit better with our preconceived notions. Worst of all, they can lead us to uncritically accept bad information just because it reinforces our beliefs. This reinforcement makes us more confident we’re right, and even less likely to listen to any new information. And then we vote.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/

[brawndolicious]

yeah, in my experience nearly everybody learns how to vote based on how their friends and family voted.  unless it's a "moral" issue like abortion or gay marriage or anything already deeply rehearsed.  Like I volunteer as an election officer and around election day, I get a bunch of calls asking how to vote on different propositions they don't know much about and I'm just like "Uh...read?".  They never ask me about those moral issues though as I'm the progressive mofo.

With gay marriage, I had some success in convincing people that it was not about gay marriage, it was about the mormon take-over of the legal system and that they would be getting too powerful and controlling the media, like the jews people who believe in the development and protection of a Jewish nation.  real talk, that's how you debate politics.

[Boogie]

Liberals:  I Knew it!
Conservatives: I knew it!

 

[Human Snorenado]

Nah, facts have a well-known liberal bias.  Beliefs are for the conservatrons.

[Van Cruncheon]

clearly you have not hung out with the enviro-wacko set

much like libertarians, they have some facts and good observations buried under all that insane whackadoodle crazy

[Ichirou]

Obama and Co. dropped the ball repeatedly in almost every crucial moment and I won't be shedding tears when the collective Democratic asshole is prolapsed after November.

This.

Obama sucks, not going to vote him in again if all we get is Republican controlled legislation. Might as well let them take complete control if the Dems are going to let them walk all over them.

This.

[Mandark]

I'm pretty fairly disenchanted with him and could definitely see myself either not voting in 2012 or voting for a 3rd party candidate again.

The joyous citizens of Fallujah thank you for your role in making the Nader administration possible.

[Smooth Groove]

I'm pretty fairly disenchanted with him and could definitely see myself either not voting in 2012 or voting for a 3rd party candidate again.

The joyous citizens of Fallujah thank you for your role in making the Nader administration possible.

Jew too?

[brawndolicious]

If you wanted a hands-on president, you should've voted for a white guy geniuses.

Hell, I remember everybody praising his restraint for ignoring the birther, doomsday, freemarketer distinguished mentally-challenged fellows and now NAAAHOOOOH@@! he's a lame duck!  He didn't undo a stalemate in the senate.  WTF?  Why didn't some black guy 1/3 through his first senate term have the connections to get republicans to agree with him?  Is it because he's a pussy?

[Oblivion]

Hey Mandark, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the following articles:

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/06/21/obama/index.html

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/06/22/impotence/index.html

[Stoney Mason]

If you wanted a hands-on president, you should've voted for a white guy geniuses.

Hell, I remember everybody praising his restraint for ignoring the birther, doomsday, freemarketer distinguished mentally-challenged fellows and now NAAAHOOOOH@@! he's a lame duck!  He didn't undo a stalemate in the senate.  WTF?  Why didn't some black guy 1/3 through his first senate term have the connections to get republicans to agree with him?  Is it because he's a pussy?

I hate to say I predicted all this way back when...

But I predicted all this way back when.

Mainly progressive disillusionment they created from masturbatory fantasies.

I'm no more or less inclined to vote than I was in 2008. But then my expectations I consider were always realistic.

[Eric P]

Minnesota state Rep. Tom Emmer, the presumptive Republican nominee for governor, made an interesting campaign stop over the weekend as part of his damage control efforts for having supported policies that would effectively lower the minimum wage for waiters: He became a waiter for a day, serving tables at a Mexican restaurant.

HE TOOK THEIR JRRRBS

[Human Snorenado]

I'm pretty fairly disenchanted with him and could definitely see myself either not voting in 2012 or voting for a 3rd party candidate again.

The joyous citizens of Fallujah thank you for your role in making the Nader administration possible.

This shit again?  Gore lost in a bunch of states he shouldn't have, and could have had mine and plenty of other people's votes by being more authentic and not such a bland jackass.  Fucks sakes, he lost his home state.  And then of course, there was the fact that he probably won Florida but who the fuck can tell.  He should have wanted it more and been more of an asshole.  That's how you get things done.

Besides which, Gore probably would have invaded Iraq too.

[Human Snorenado]

Besides which, you neatly sidestepped any substantive criticism of what Obama's done so far.  I'd honestly like to hear your take.

[Oblivion]

If you wanted a hands-on president, you should've voted for a white guy geniuses.

Hell, I remember everybody praising his restraint for ignoring the birther, doomsday, freemarketer distinguished mentally-challenged fellows and now NAAAHOOOOH@@! he's a lame duck!  He didn't undo a stalemate in the senate.  WTF?  Why didn't some black guy 1/3 through his first senate term have the connections to get republicans to agree with him?  Is it because he's a pussy?

I hate to say I predicted all this way back when...

But I predicted all this way back when.

Mainly progressive disillusionment they created from masturbatory fantasies.

I'm no more or less inclined to vote than I was in 2008. But then my expectations I consider were always realistic.

Dunno about everyone else, but I supported Obama cause I thought he was gonna be center-left instead of center-right like he actually seems to be. Even during the campaign I didn't think he ever made himself out to be a super liberal. (he didn't even support gay marriage!)

I'm definitely disappointed with Obama making so many concessions, but I'd still support him given that the other side are clinically insane.

But yeah, I guess I was just expecting more FDR (at least on financial reform, good god wtf?), and less Clinton.

[Phoenix Dark]

Besides which, Gore probably would have invaded Iraq too.

And George W would have become T Boone Pickens. Then Michele Steele's message of passionate conservative change would make him the first black president of the US

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

It takes a lot of cognitive dissonance and party loyalty to be behind Obama these days.  I can understand not turning the US to a time before Reaganomics but it doesn't explain why he's bungled nearly every major initiative he's pushed, with the exception of immigration reform but given time, he'll find a way to bungle that as well.  My main beef with Obama is that he has done nearly everything poorly almost to where if I were to don a tinfoil hat, I'd suggest he was sabotaging his own initiatives so heavily watered down legislation was the only thing that was produced.

Besides, if what we were getting was Bush-lite, I would (and many others) have voted for Hillary in the primaries.  Can't get too upset at people being disappointed that an elected official fell well short of the mark and that is even after a few rational goal post adjustments towards the right wing.  Polling numbers seem to indicate that Obama is rapidly losing ground as well.  Sorry but making some snide or bitchy, snarky remark isn't going to amount to shit these days.