Author Topic: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics  (Read 1866135 times)

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Human Snorenado

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11940 on: February 18, 2011, 05:16:34 PM »
At the end of the day you agree with this form of obstruction because the goal is admirable in your opinion. On the filibuster, you're right about the systematic abuse of the it, but this is more comparable to filibustering legislation (health care) one is ideologically opposed to. In both cases one side halts debate and delays the democratic process. I'm not a fan of the filibuster, and I'm not a fan of fleeing debates to stall them.

Beardo don't make me look bad

Everything you have said is true, but at the end of the day at least the Republicans showed up for work and had the guts to show their faces.

If they only way they could have obstructed Dem legislation was by not being there for votes, what do you think the chances are that they would suddenly have Very Important Business back home in their districts?  Let's not be COMPLETELY stupid here.

Oh wait, this is Beardo we're talking about here.  He probably honestly believes that cutting taxes reduces the deficit.  Nevermind!
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Boogie

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11941 on: February 18, 2011, 05:54:56 PM »
Addendum to my "doom and gloom" regarding resource scarcity and climate change:

http://oilandglory.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/14/the_coming_misery_that_big_oil_discusses_behind_closed_doors

http://www-static.shell.com/static/public/downloads/brochures/corporate_pkg/scenarios/shell_energy_scenarios_2050.pdf

[youtube=560,345]Yc5t5xro7RA[/youtube]

Consider:  if a "Big Oil" company is being this "negative", "pessimistic" etc, how fucked are we, truly?

For those pie-in-the-sky "human innovation will overcome all", the most repeated phrase in the Shell documents/talking points seems to be "there are no silver bullets"

Also interesting that it says this: ""major resource holders are increasingly the rule makers rather than the rule takers. They use their growing prominence in the world to influence international policies, particularly when it comes to matters they insist are internal such as human rights and democratic governance."

That would, presumably, include Canada, meaning I would be safe, being in a "have" country.  But realistically, I would see us being annexed, or at least, coerced into favourable terms of trade, by the United States, in such a scenario.

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also:  any irony factor in Shell dude's name being Jeremy Bentham? something Utilitarianism something?
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Great Rumbler

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11942 on: February 18, 2011, 06:36:39 PM »
Unfortunately, the world seems far more reactionary than proactive, so it's probably going to come down to crunch time before enough people start to say "Hey, maybe me ought to pour a lot more money into alternative fuels and energy-saving programs" before anything actually starts to get done in a meaningful enough amount to make a real difference, which isn't a very fun prospect.
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Boogie

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11943 on: February 18, 2011, 06:47:05 PM »
Unfortunately, the world seems far more reactionary than proactive, so it's probably going to come down to crunch time before enough people start to say "Hey, maybe me ought to pour a lot more money into alternative fuels and energy-saving programs" before anything actually starts to get done in a meaningful enough amount to make a real difference, which isn't a very fun prospect.

Indeed.  As a parable:

About a year, year-and-a-half ago, the Canadian grocery chain (which is my local supermarket) Sobey's implemented an environmentally-friendly decision to charge 5 cents per plastic bag, in order to encourage people to move to re-usable bags.  So you would be asked if you needed to purchase plastic bags at checkout.

A few weeks after implementation, I asked a few of the checkout clerks how it was going.  I was told stories of middle-aged women freaking the fuck out at the prospect of paying 5 cents for a plastic bag...These, of course, being women with grocery bills of 200+ dollars for a family of four, freaking at their bill being increased by 50 cents for an environmentally-friendly measure.

At this point, obviously, it's business as usual, no big deal.  But I came away from those conversations thinking: human civilization is fucked.  If our reaction to spending 5 cents for a plastic grocery bag is to throw a screaming fit at the checkout counter, we have little hope of making it through the coming decades without massive, large-scale tensions and breakdowns in society.

edit:  at the same time, I don't think "put money into alternative fuels and energy-saving programs" is even enough.  I think that we're going to have to completely reconsider how civilization and the global economy is structured, and to reconsider the imperative/Holy Grail/unquestioned acceptance of Growth in order to survive.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 06:49:23 PM by Boogie »
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ToxicAdam

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11944 on: February 18, 2011, 11:06:55 PM »
Shell pulled out of renewables in a major way in 2009. Partly (I am guessing) was due to the unstable nature of the world economy (and the bottoming out of oil prices) and also the fact that there is no infrastructure in place to support rapid expansion/adaptation of solar, wind, et al.


They seem to be leaning heavily towards non-food based biofuels (enzymes and shit). Codexis is the name of the company they are in bed with, if you are interested in investing.


Boogie

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11945 on: February 18, 2011, 11:15:35 PM »
I haven't read in-depth, but yeah, Dyer has mentioned the potential for non-food biofuels before.
MMA

Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11946 on: February 18, 2011, 11:16:56 PM »
PD:  Worth noting that everything I've read so far shows that the unions and protesters consider the actions of the Dem legislators to be hugely supportive and useful to the cause.  I know that it's counterintuitive to think of physically fleeing as staunch opposition, but let's try to remember that this is a procedural fight, not a physical one.

Also, nothing wrong with using every rule at your disposal to push for the result you want.  I don't enjoy it when Republicans force a liberal bill to get 60 votes in the Senate, but it ain't cheating.

The real defect in the process the last two years was that the GOP obstructed everything for the sake of obstruction.  It wasn't just stuff they opposed for ideological reasons.  It was stuff that passed overwhelmingly when it got a floor vote (the CC bill of rights), appointees who were unanimously confirmed, legislation that zipped through the lame duck session once they didn't worry about making Obama seem successful, and major legislation they had boosted or even explicitly sponsored just a year or two before (health reform, cap and trade).

Shaka Khan

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11947 on: February 19, 2011, 10:18:54 AM »
I'm a little late for this, but have yesterday's veto UN draft veto'd been discussed?

I'd like to hear an educated response defending the move.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 11:16:38 AM by Shah Rukh Khan »
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Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11948 on: February 19, 2011, 10:45:38 AM »
We'll handle the energy issues like we handled the housing bubble: frenzied, half assed reactions well past the point of no return.

I hope to hell someone develops a cheap way to remove mass quantities of carbon, nitrogen, and sulfur oxides from the atmosphere.  That is basically the only option we have.

As much as people want to say "bobobo...", the 5 cent plastic bag, record iPad/iPhone sales, etc.  The general consensus is that people shouldn't have to be too inconvenienced in the transition.  People don't want to be denied their right to consume or to pay a premium for that consumption.

It's such a shame that we're spending record levels of money on the Pentagon when even breaking off a 10% chunk of that towards solar, wind, and nuclear energy alternatives would make significant strides.  There's even opportunities for businesses to make obscene profits just like the defense contractors!  I figure that would seal the deal.

Shah Rukh Khan: I like the stance that I heard: "We vetoed the resolution but we're against further Israeli settlements!"  I don't see how to defend it except AIPAC money flowing into coffers for the 2012 race.  Considering how vital the election is for both parties, neither are probably willing to risk anything, for maximum contributions and public opinion.
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11950 on: February 20, 2011, 08:18:10 PM »
JayDubya is on a rampage in like three separate threads on gaf :rock
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Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11951 on: February 21, 2011, 12:17:15 AM »
I'm a little late for this, but have yesterday's veto UN draft veto'd been discussed?

I'd like to hear an educated response defending the move.

Unless there's something different about this time, the US basically provides an automatic veto on any resolution that condemns or declares illegal any of Israel's actions.  That's because of the US-Israel alliance and American domestic politics.

It does mean that a bunch of countries get to register a symbolic protest against Israeli policy by making these votes without ever having to worry about enforcing an actual punishment, giving them a kind of moral freebie.

I know you were asking someone to defend the veto on its merits, but it's so nakedly political (and so unremarkable as part of the larger pattern) that it's kinda pointless.  See also.



PS  Have you read any of this Palestinian Papers business?  I haven't really caught up with it, but it sounds crazy.

Oblivion

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11952 on: February 21, 2011, 06:08:17 PM »
Maybe the tea baggers would be more sympathetic to unions if they referred to themselves as 'confederacies' instead?

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11953 on: February 21, 2011, 06:32:59 PM »
Gotta love the tea party siding with big business on every single issue. If they were around during the Revolution they would have bashed the Boston Tea Party as destruction of private property.
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HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11954 on: February 21, 2011, 07:09:03 PM »
they're all so damn certain that tyranny in this country comes from government and not corporate powers, in a way, they're not wrong.

all the crap that's holding this country back does come from the government, a government that is bought and paid for by corporate interests.  Its like being mad at the gun that shot you and not the person that fired it.

Oblivion

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11955 on: February 21, 2011, 09:23:46 PM »
they're all so damn certain that tyranny in this country comes from government and not corporate powers, in a way, they're not wrong.

all the crap that's holding this country back does come from the government, a government that is bought and paid for by corporate interests.  Its like being mad at the gun that shot you and not the person that fired it.

Well, the good news is tea baggers would NEVER do such a thing.  :usacry

Dickie Dee

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11956 on: February 21, 2011, 10:11:12 PM »
I'm just watching the American Experience on Carter.

:bow He will be forever awesome :bow2

:usacry us rejecting him shows we're been forever fucked :usacry

PUT ON A SWEATER BITCHTES!!!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 10:18:50 PM by Mamacint »
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Brehvolution

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11958 on: February 22, 2011, 09:19:15 AM »
©ZH

Beardo

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11959 on: February 22, 2011, 09:26:40 AM »
I'm just watching the American Experience on Carter.

:bow He will be forever awesome :bow2

:usacry us rejecting him shows we're been forever fucked :usacry

PUT ON A SWEATER BITCHTES!!!

Anyone remember the episode of Freaks and Geeks where they convince the distinguished mentally-challenged kid that President Carter is a good president and then all laugh at him?


Yeah... thats you.

Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11960 on: February 22, 2011, 04:15:18 PM »
It's funny that Carter is a bigger bete noir for the right than Clinton or Obama.  The man made deregulation a centerpiece of his presidency, signed a capital gains tax cut, pursued a harsher anti-Soviet policy than his predecessors, appointed the Fed chair who beat inflation, and was so out of sync with the liberal establishment that they tried to keep him from getting renominated in 1980.

Seriously, throw the guy a bone.

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11961 on: February 22, 2011, 04:38:12 PM »
and he took us off the gold standard.

Ahhh, good-ol Carter.

Oblivion

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11962 on: February 22, 2011, 05:04:42 PM »
It's funny that Carter is a bigger bete noir for the right than Clinton or Obama.  The man made deregulation a centerpiece of his presidency, signed a capital gains tax cut, pursued a harsher anti-Soviet policy than his predecessors, appointed the Fed chair who beat inflation, and was so out of sync with the liberal establishment that they tried to keep him from getting renominated in 1980.

Seriously, throw the guy a bone.

He's like the anti-Reagan in the sense of how conservatives fondly remember Reagan, isn't he.

Groogrux

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11963 on: February 22, 2011, 05:27:09 PM »
I can't wait to see what Walker's little "fireside chat" is going to be like tonight.  He's supposed to address the state (and the nation) about what's going on in the capital and give his already well-known opinion on the matter.  I do think he's starting to squirm a little bit, as are the rest of the house republicans from all of this unwanted publicity.

But, that's what you get when you fuck with unions.

I think the part that is not helping Walker's bill and cause the most though is the group that's trying to give him the most support.  You don't help things when you call the people that oppose a bill you support "freeloaders" and "bums".  Not a good move Fox News.  I feel sorry for Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh if they ever get in an accident.  Those "freeloaders" and "bums" are the firefighters, EMT's, police officers, and nurses that will be there to "help" them.
WTF

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11964 on: February 22, 2011, 06:44:17 PM »
I wonder what would happen if Ted Kennedy beat out Jimmy Carter and beat Reagan.
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Boogie

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11965 on: February 22, 2011, 07:06:57 PM »
Those "freeloaders" and "bums" are the firefighters, EMT's, police officers, and nurses that will be there to "help" them.

Yep.  Remember, kids.  The firefighters, EMTs, police officers and nurses, who are working constant shiftwork, and every holiday, including Christmas, are "freeloaders".

Republican lawmakers who couldn't work over the Christmas break to get a 9/11 First Responders Health Care bill passed because it would be "disrespectful" to Christians, are "tireless public servants."
MMA

Human Snorenado

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11966 on: February 22, 2011, 07:34:37 PM »
Interestingly enough, in Wisconsin the gov's budget doesn't target the police/fire unions... who also, interestingly enough, backed him in the election.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Police carry guns and firemen are manly.  Teachers are pussies and deserve only our derision!/gop
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Groogrux

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11967 on: February 22, 2011, 11:17:27 PM »
Interestingly enough, in Wisconsin the gov's budget doesn't target the police/fire unions yet... who also, interestingly enough, backed him in the election for some stupid reason.

Fixed.
WTF

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11968 on: February 22, 2011, 11:40:06 PM »
My man Mitch!

Quote
Members of the Democratic state House caucus in Indiana have found an unlikely ally in their quest to stop the GOP majority from pushing through a bill that critics say would destroy union organizing in the state. Gov. Mitch Daniels (R) took to the airwaves today to call on members of his party to drop the controversial "right to work" bill that led to Democrats going AWOL.

Daniels' statement, from WISH-TV:

    "I'm not sending the state police after anybody. I'm not gonna divert a single trooper from their job of protection the Indiana public. I trust that people's consciences will bring them back to work. ... For reasons I've explained more than once I thought there was a better time and place to have this very important and legitimate issue raised."
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/mitch-daniels-calls-on-state-gop-to-abandon-union-busting-bill.php?ref=fpb
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Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11969 on: February 23, 2011, 01:09:33 AM »
One of the worst aspects of this is the effort to make public school teachers into a pariah class, largely responsible both for government deficits and the failure of the educational system (both fictional and factual in both cases).

It's just really nasty to demonize people provide an important public service.  To children.  Often for less money than they could have made elsewhere.

Compared to the constant, almost socially mandatory reverence for soldiers it's pretty shocking.

Van Cruncheon

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11970 on: February 23, 2011, 01:13:11 AM »
no-one's demonizing PRIVATE school teachers :smug :jaydubya
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11971 on: February 23, 2011, 01:44:22 AM »
One of the worst aspects of this is the effort to make public school teachers into a pariah class, largely responsible both for government deficits and the failure of the educational system (both fictional and factual in both cases).

It's just really nasty to demonize people provide an important public service.  To children.  Often for less money than they could have made elsewhere.

Compared to the constant, almost socially mandatory reverence for soldiers it's pretty shocking.

but they make $51,000 a year?!?!?!!?!?11 disgustingly overpayed for only 10 months of work
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Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11972 on: February 23, 2011, 01:58:35 AM »
Talk about raising the top rate another percent, then see if Republicans think $50,000 is well-compensated.  More likely, you'll get "sure, $300k sounds like a lot of money..." apologetics in the Todd Henderson mode.

Groogrux

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11973 on: February 23, 2011, 02:23:57 AM »
$50k for what they have to go through?  Has anyone here looked at what it takes to become a teacher these days?  I don't know how it is in Wisconsin, but in my state it's a pretty rigorous fucking task.  Not to mention the fact that when they do become teachers, they have the pleasure of babysitting this shithead generation of kids and future shitheads to come for retirement that is ages away and doesn't pay worth a fuck.
WTF

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11974 on: February 23, 2011, 02:28:35 AM »
  More likely, you'll get "sure, $300k sounds like a lot of money..." apologetics in the Todd Henderson mode.



dammit cajole, I need a gif
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Brehvolution

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11975 on: February 23, 2011, 09:17:09 AM »
One of the worst aspects of this is the effort to make public school teachers into a pariah class, largely responsible both for government deficits and the failure of the educational system (both fictional and factual in both cases).

It's just really nasty to demonize people provide an important public service.  To children.  Often for less money than they could have made elsewhere.

Compared to the constant, almost socially mandatory reverence for soldiers it's pretty shocking.

but they make $51,000 a year?!?!?!!?!?11 disgustingly overpayed for only 10 months of work

My wife is a teacher. In NY, teachers are required to get their MBA within 5 years of being hired. She's been teaching 5th grade for 12 years, has her MBA, and is making less than $50,000 this year.

How many professions do you know that pay less than $50,000 to someone that has an MBA?
©ZH

Dickie Dee

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11976 on: February 23, 2011, 09:41:11 AM »
Why the heck do teachers need an MBA  ???
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Brehvolution

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11977 on: February 23, 2011, 10:07:21 AM »
NY has a higher standard of education.  :cookiem
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Dickie Dee

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11978 on: February 23, 2011, 10:12:08 AM »
Seems weirdly arbitrary, like why not make them get a plumbers license too
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Beardo

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11979 on: February 23, 2011, 10:38:41 AM »
You guys are acting like the GOP is trying to pull a fast one in Wisconsin. The people voted for them and now it's time for them to legislate the will of the people. Anyone who has seen one of the plethora of documentaries on the subject of the state of our public education system knows that Teachers Unions are slowly destroying the quality of our schools in this country.


Also,
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/145627-dem-lawmaker-on-labor-protests-get-a-little-bloody-when-necessary
Quote
Sometimes it's necessary to get out on the streets and "get a little bloody," a Massachusetts Democrat said Tuesday in reference to labor battles in Wisconsin.

Is this an acceptable tactic guys? To call for blood on the streets? Or are we gonna blame this on Sarah Palin also. As far as I am concerned this whole ordeal has shown how fucking disgusting unions are.



Brehvolution

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11980 on: February 23, 2011, 11:18:41 AM »
It's the bigger picture, Beardo. Busting a union has NOTHING to do with a budget and everything to do with killing off a large democratic donor.
©ZH

Beardo

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11981 on: February 23, 2011, 11:29:39 AM »
It's the bigger picture, Beardo. Busting a union has NOTHING to do with a budget and everything to do with killing off a large democratic donor.

So thats all Public unions are? A "large democratic doner."
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Clearly worth every tax payer dollar.
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Boogie

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11982 on: February 23, 2011, 11:32:49 AM »
You guys are acting like the GOP is trying to pull a fast one in Wisconsin. The people voted for them and now it's time for them to legislate the will of the people. Anyone who has seen one of the plethora of documentaries on the subject of the state of our public education system knows that Teachers Unions are slowly destroying the quality of our schools in this country.

Pretty sure that teachers are paid a lot better in those countries which are currently spanking America's ass in education.


In Ontario, a teacher at the top pay level gets around 90k a year.



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MMA

Beardo

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11983 on: February 23, 2011, 11:36:53 AM »
You guys are acting like the GOP is trying to pull a fast one in Wisconsin. The people voted for them and now it's time for them to legislate the will of the people. Anyone who has seen one of the plethora of documentaries on the subject of the state of our public education system knows that Teachers Unions are slowly destroying the quality of our schools in this country.

Pretty sure that teachers are paid a lot better in those countries which are currently spanking America's ass in education.


In Ontario, a teacher at the top pay level gets around 90k a year.





Thats's the point... we spend a huge magnitude more than any other country on education and the quality of it is getting worse! Clearly there is a problem that wont be solved by throwing MORE money at it.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11986 on: February 23, 2011, 12:01:59 PM »
Partial Transcript via the Dailykos link:

Walker: Hi; this is Scott Walker.

Koch: Scott! David Koch. How are you?

Walker: Hey, David! I’m good. And yourself?

Koch: I’m very well. I’m a little disheartened by the situation there, but, uh, what’s the latest?

Walker: Well, we’re actually hanging pretty tough. I mean—you know, amazingly there’s a much smaller group of protesters—almost all of whom are in from other states today. The State Assembly is taking the bill up—getting it all the way to the last point it can be at where it’s unamendable. But they’re waiting to pass it until the Senate’s—the Senate Democrats, excuse me, the assembly Democrats have about a hundred amendments they’re going through. The state Senate still has the 14 members missing but what they’re doing today is bringing up all sorts of other non-fiscal items, many of which are things members in the Democratic side care about. And each day we’re going to ratchet it up a little bit…. The Senate majority leader had a great plan he told about this morning—he told the Senate Democrats about and he’s going to announce it later today, and that is: The Senate organization committee is going to meet and pass a rule that says if you don’t show up for two consecutive days on a session day—in the state Senate, the Senate chief clerk—it’s a little procedural thing here, but—can actually have your payroll stopped from being automatically deducted—

Koch: Beautiful.

Walker: —into your checking account and instead—you still get a check, but the check has to be personally picked up and he’s instructing them—which we just loved—to lock them in their desk on the floor of the state Senate.

Koch: Now you’re not talking to any of these Democrat bastards, are you?

Walker: Ah, I—there’s one guy that’s actually voted with me on a bunch of things I called on Saturday for about 45 minutes, mainly to tell him that while I appreciate his friendship and he’s worked with us on other things, to tell him I wasn’t going to budge.

Koch: Goddamn right!

Walker: …his name is Tim Cullen—

Koch: All right, I’ll have to give that man a call.

Walker: Well, actually, in his case I wouldn’t call him and I’ll tell you why: he’s pretty reasonable but he’s not one of us…

Koch: Now who can we get to budge on this collective bargaining?

Walker: …I think the paycheck will have an impact…secondly, one of the things we’re looking at next…we’re still waiting on an opinion to see if the unions have been paying to put these guys up out of state. We think there’s at minimum an ethics violation if not an outright felony.

Koch: Well, they’re probably putting hobos in suits.

Walker: Yeah.

Koch: That’s what we do. Sometimes.

Walker: I mean paying for the senators to be put up. I know they’re paying for these guy—I mean, people can pay for protesters to come in and that’s not an ethics code, but, I mean, literally if the unions are paying the 14 senators—their food, their lodging, anything like that…[* Important regarding his later acceptance of a Koch offer to “show him a good time.” *]

[I was stunned. I am stunned. In the interest of expediting the release of this story, here are the juiciest bits:]

Walker: …I’ve got layoff notices ready…

Koch: Beautiful; beautiful. Gotta crush that union.

Walker: [bragging about how he doesn't budge]…I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders—talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn—but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly…legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have quorum…so we’re double checking that. If you heard I was going to talk to them that’s the only reason why. We’d only do it if they came back to the capital with all 14 of them…

Koch: Bring a baseball bat. That’s what I’d do.

Walker: I have one in my office; you’d be happy with that. I have a slugger with my name on it.

Koch: Beautiful.

Walker: [union-bashing...]

Koch: Beautiful.

Walker: So this is ground zero, there’s no doubt about it. [Talks about a “great” NYT piece of “objective journalism.” Talks about how most private blue-collar workers have turned against public, unionized workers.]…So I went through and called a handful, a dozen or so lawmakers I worry about each day and said, “Everyone, we should get that story printed out and send it to anyone giving you grief.”

Koch: Goddamn right! We, uh, we sent, uh, Andrew Breitbart down there.

Walker:Yeah.

Koch: Yeah.

Walker: Good stuff.

Koch: He’s our man, you know.

Walker: [blah about his press conferences, attacking Obama, and all the great press he's getting.] Brian [Sadoval], the new Governor of Nevada, called me the last night he said—he was out in the Lincoln Day Circuit in the last two weekends and he was kidding me, he said, “Scott, don’t come to Nevada because I’d be afraid you beat me running for governor.” That’s all they want to talk about is what are you doing to help the governor of Wisconsin. I talk to Kasich every day—John’s gotta stand firm in Ohio. I think we could do the same thing with Vic Scott in Florida. I think, uh, Snyder—if he got a little more support—probably could do that in Michigan. You start going down the list there’s a lot of us new governors that got elected to do something big.

Koch: You’re the first domino.

Walker: Yep. This is our moment.

Koch: Now what else could we do for you down there?

Walker: Well the biggest thing would be—and your guy on the ground [Americans For Prosperity president Tim Phillips] is probably seeing this [stuff about all the people protesting, and some of them flip him off].

[Abrupt end of first recording, and start of second.]

Walker: [Bullshit about doing the right thing and getting flipped off by “union bulls,” and the decreasing number of protesters. Or some such.]

Koch: We’ll back you any way we can. What we were thinking about the crowd was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.

Walker: You know, well, the only problem with that —because we thought about that. The problem—the, my only gut reaction to that is right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them, the public is not really fond of this…[explains that planting troublemakers may not work.] My only fear would be if there’s a ruckus caused is that maybe the governor has to settle to solve all these problems…[something about '60s liberals.]…Let ‘em protest all they want…Sooner or later the media stops finding it interesting.

Koch: Well, not the liberal bastards on MSNBC.

Walker: Oh yeah, but who watches that? I went on “Morning Joe” this morning. I like it because I just like being combative with those guys, but, uh. You know they’re off the deep end.

Koch: Joe—Joe’s a good guy. He’s one of us.

Walker: Yeah, he’s all right. He was fair to me…[bashes NY Senator Chuck Schumer, who was also on the program.]

Koch: Beautiful; beautiful. You gotta love that Mika Brzezinski; she’s a real piece of ass.

Walker: Oh yeah. [story about when he hung out with human pig Jim Sensenbrenner at some D.C. function and he was sitting next to Brzezinski and her father, and their guest was David Axelrod. He introduced himself.]

Koch: That son of a bitch!

Walker: Yeah no kidding huh?…

Koch: Well, good; good. Good catching up with ya’.

Walker: This is an exciting time [blah, blah, blah, Super Bowl reference followed by an odd story of pulling out a picture of Ronald Reagan and explaining to his staff the plan to crush the union the same way Reagan fired the air traffic controllers]…that was the first crack in the Berlin Wall because the Communists then knew Reagan wasn’t a pushover. [Blah, blah, blah. He's exactly like Reagan. Won't shut up about how awesome he is.]

Koch: [Laughs] Well, I tell you what, Scott: once you crush these bastards I’ll fly you out to Cali and really show you a good time.

Walker: All right, that would be outstanding. [* Ethical violation much? *] Thanks for all the support…it’s all about getting our freedoms back…

Koch: Absolutely. And, you know, we have a little bit of a vested interest as well. [Laughs]

Walker: [Blah] Thanks a million!

Koch: Bye-bye!

Walker: Bye.
野球

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11987 on: February 23, 2011, 12:04:36 PM »
Quote
WALKER: You've got a few of the radical ones -- unfortunately, one of them's the minority leader -- but most of the rest of them are just looking for a way to get out of this. They're scared out of their minds. They don't know what it means. There's a bunch of recalls up against them. They'd really like to just get back up here and get it over with. So the paycheck thing, some of the other things threatening them, I think collectively there's enough going on, and as long as they don't think I'm going to cave, which again we have no interest in. An interesting idea that was brought up to me by my chief of staff, we won't do it until tomorrow, is putting out an appeal to the Democratic leader. I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders—talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn—but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly. They can recess it... the reason for that, we're verifying it this afternoon, legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have quorum because it's turned out that way. So we’re double checking that. If you heard I was going to talk to them that’s the only reason why. We’d only do it if they came back to the capitol with all 14 of them. My sense is, hell. I'll talk. If they want to yell at me for an hour, I'm used to that. I can deal with that. But I'm not negotiating.

That's his master end game plan? wow  :lol
010

Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11988 on: February 23, 2011, 12:16:45 PM »
NY has a higher standard of education.  :cookiem

Teachers have to get a Masters of Business Administration? Are you sure you don't mean a Masters of Education?
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Beardo

  • Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11989 on: February 23, 2011, 12:17:41 PM »
Meh, that wasn't too bad.


Politics and sausage making blah blah blah.

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11990 on: February 23, 2011, 12:20:34 PM »
normally I'd be against something like this.  The press shouldn't have to lie to somebody in order to get an actual gol-damn interview out of them.

But when the guy is this patently corrupt and partisan, I'll let that rule slide.

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11991 on: February 23, 2011, 12:29:23 PM »
Obama, DOJ Say Part Of DOMA Is Unconstitutional, Will Not Defend It In Court
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/obama_doj_say_part_of_doma_is_unconstitutional_will_not_defend_it_in_court.php

never let a crisis go to waste, right Beardo?
010

Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11992 on: February 23, 2011, 01:01:57 PM »
Obama, DOJ Say Part Of DOMA Is Unconstitutional, Will Not Defend It In Court
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/obama_doj_say_part_of_doma_is_unconstitutional_will_not_defend_it_in_court.php

Badass. Although, I'm wondering if this is just Obama trying to get the gays back on his side. They've been pretty pissed at him recently, at least here in Seattle.
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Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11993 on: February 23, 2011, 01:04:03 PM »
Seems like Obama firing up his base, and finally realizing the people who'll hate this decision were never going to vote for him anyway.
010

Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11994 on: February 23, 2011, 01:10:23 PM »
NY has a higher standard of education.  :cookiem

Teachers have to get a Masters of Business Administration? Are you sure you don't mean a Masters of Education?

You can get it in anything. Getting an MBA was logical if she decides to stop teaching and work in administration. That door is open to her.
©ZH

Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11995 on: February 23, 2011, 01:16:12 PM »
Thats's the point... we spend a huge magnitude more than any other country on education and the quality of it is getting worse! Clearly there is a problem that wont be solved by throwing MORE money at it.

And how is cutting money going to make it better?
©ZH

HyperZoneWasAwesome

  • HastilyChosenUsername
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11996 on: February 23, 2011, 01:17:14 PM »
Obama, DOJ Say Part Of DOMA Is Unconstitutional, Will Not Defend It In Court
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/obama_doj_say_part_of_doma_is_unconstitutional_will_not_defend_it_in_court.php

never let a crisis go to waste, right Beardo?
it seems more like he's content to let other parts of the government do the dirty work of actually getting liberal shit done without muddying his hands too much and seeming like a too-pushy liberal (ala first term Clinton).
which is nuts because...
Seems like Obama firing up his base, and finally realizing the people who'll hate this decision were never going to vote for him anyway.
I'd love for the pres to try to only appeal to progressives and moderates, but I do on some level understand his seeming reluctance to be a liberal shit-kicker.

FWIW I have no idea how to fix education, but busting up unions and slashing budgets doesn't seem like a good way to make anything better.

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11997 on: February 23, 2011, 01:20:25 PM »
I agree you can't simply throw money into the system, but cutting teacher's pay is not the solution either. The solution requires teacher involvement, higher standards, not "teaching to the test" etc. Honestly I think the system will never be fixed in urban schools, which is a shame because we're talking about hundreds of thousands of kids' futures being kneecapped at an early age. I just can't look at Detroit's situation for instance, where they're being ordered to close some 50 schools and mandate 60 student classrooms, and possibly imagine things getting better.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 01:23:57 PM by Phoenix Dark »
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Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11998 on: February 23, 2011, 01:52:25 PM »
Thats's the point... we spend a huge magnitude more than any other country on education

and the quality of it is getting worse! Clearly there is a problem that wont be solved by throwing MORE money at it.

I'm pretty sure both of those statements aren't true.

Mupepe

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #11999 on: February 23, 2011, 01:53:36 PM »
I think he meant to say health care instead of education :teehee

seriously though, didn't a study come out not too long ago that showed our education has always been shit but has steadily been on the rise the last 50 or so years?