Author Topic: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics  (Read 1866766 times)

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Oblivion

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21960 on: December 07, 2012, 09:13:53 PM »
Ezra Klein (filling in for Maddow) just said that it's looking like Obama's willing to accept some midway point for the top tax rates (not 39.6% but like 37%) and is offering to raise the medicare age to 67 in exchange.

This sounds like a HORRIBLE deal.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21961 on: December 07, 2012, 09:20:23 PM »


Television reporting has been rather horrible on this, and while Ezra is smarter I doubt he writes the reporting blurbs on the show. Yesterday CNN reported Boehner was caving on taxes because he said he was open to "increased revenue." So yea, I'll wait for specific details.
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Himu

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21963 on: December 07, 2012, 09:33:01 PM »
Washington state drops the gay marriage bomb tonight

:bow

:bow
IYKYK

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21964 on: December 07, 2012, 10:15:43 PM »
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/07/the-fiscal-cliff-deal-comes-clearer-a-37-top-tax-rate-and-a-higher-medicare-eligibility-age/

Klein's post on this.

It's based entirely on speculation and what "smart" people in Washington are saying (ie what Beltway people want). False alarm folks, carry on with your normal lives
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Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21965 on: December 07, 2012, 10:41:12 PM »
PD: Not what "Beltway people" want, but what sources inside the administration are telling him, more likely.  Which means they're accurately conveying what they believe, or have another reason to make this public.  I'd bet on there being some fire with this smoke.  Jon Chait argued for using Medicare age as a concession, and he's been pretty spot-on in assessing the state of negotiations.

Avoiding the fiscal "cliff" is not worth a higher Medicare eligibility age. Go over that shit.

Also, why the fuck is anyone bothering to negotiate over the debt ceiling instead of taking the 14th Amendment route? This is the same bullshit that had me wanting a primary challenger to Obama 1-2 years ago.

Cause the 14th Amendment argument is purely speculative at this point.  The relevant text talks about repaying outstanding debt but says nothing about issuing new liabilities.  So it's not clear at all that it could be used to override the debt ceiling, and if you disagree then you've got a much more optimistic view of the Roberts court than I do.

Also, a tone of self-superior contempt is never a good look, especially when you don't know much about what you're talking about (and in this case you don't).  Please cut it out; I don't want to go through that shit again.

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21966 on: December 07, 2012, 11:04:57 PM »
Mandark, kindly go drown yourself in a vat of horse-semen, you pretentious little twat.

Saved in case there is an edit
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TakingBackSunday

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21967 on: December 07, 2012, 11:05:29 PM »
SHINOBI RETURNS
püp

Barry Egan

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21968 on: December 07, 2012, 11:13:43 PM »
Thatescalatedquickly.jpg

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21969 on: December 07, 2012, 11:14:07 PM »
Now wait a minute, Green Shinobi. Cheebs, who has a masters degree, agrees with Mandark here.
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Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21970 on: December 07, 2012, 11:31:54 PM »
That wasn't me being mean.  That was advice so I don't have to be mean later on.

Already had to go through this with Himu recently, and GS has a history of taking shit way more personal.  Would rather avoid that.

TakingBackSunday

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21971 on: December 07, 2012, 11:42:00 PM »
for someone who claims not to care, you pretty much fucking care.
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Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21972 on: December 08, 2012, 12:07:45 AM »
I don't think I'm in a special position to hurt your feelings any more than any other Dude on a Forum.  It's just in the past you've reacted... poorly to criticism from Dudes on Forums.

Anyway, of course the government can pick and choose which of its obligations to pay.  In fact, the consensus legal opinion was that the 14th Amendment obligated the government to do just that: in the case of failing to reach an agreement, both Republicans and the administration (going on the legal advice it had received) said that bondholders would be paid.  Prioritizing certain financial claims over others happens all the time, and not just in the private sector.

I read Ungar's piece, and it basically is a triple bank shot that relies on the courts (including a somewhat hostile SCOTUS) finding an interpretation of Section 4 that is not at all clear from the text, and more importantly doesn't have much support, much less consensus, behind it in the legal community.  For example, in everything Jack Balkin wrote on the subject last year, I don't remember him ever even mentioning the idea that "the public debt" could be interpreted as appropriated funds.  It's not completely, 100% impossible that it wouldn't work, but it's light years away from "airtight".

Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21973 on: December 08, 2012, 12:12:51 AM »
In the past, the senior vote hasn't seemed very winnable for Democrats

http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_88.html
http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_92.html
http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_96.html
http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_00.html
http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_04.html

Notice the Dem support for the 65+ age bracket outperforming overall Dem support, except for Kerry where it was just 1% behind.  There are historical/demographic reasons for this and why its changed in the last two cycles.

Human Snorenado

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21974 on: December 08, 2012, 12:18:41 AM »
In other news:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/stateroundup/charlie-crist-signs-papers-to-become-a-democrat/1265224

Charlie Crist changed his registration to become a democrat
yar

Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21975 on: December 08, 2012, 12:39:25 AM »
Triumph, what's he meant to be angling for? Senate or a run at governor again? Also, are FL Dems jumping on his bandwagon or is it an Arlen Specter situation?

GS: Don't bank too much on the standing issue. Gay rights activists were hoping it would prevent the anti-gay lobby from appealing the overturning of Prop 8, but no go. Supporters of the law were able to take it to court even though they're obviously not affected by gay marriage. Courts tend to track with elite opinion; limiting the standing of Congressfolk to challenge spending is a good way of keeping the system from getting bogged down by nutters, but a challenge supported by the majority of the House would almost definitely be considered much more seriously (ie 4 votes to overturn the ACA).

With something like debt ceiling chicken, the downside is very, very high if you try a unilateral move and it gets shut down.  It only makes sense if the best result you can get through negotiation looks utterly awful (like repeal Medicaid bad or something) or if you believe the 14th amendment gambit would really be "airtight," rather than just "sounds logical to me."


PS Rick Ungar's a guy who produced a bunch of Marvel cartoons in the 90's. Yeah yeah, new world, amateur bloggers, new media, etc. I just wouldn't take this guy as a particular authority on anything technical, even if you like what he says. Especially if you like what he says.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 12:42:07 AM by Mandark »

Himu

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21976 on: December 08, 2012, 01:01:50 AM »
Read the ether Mandark gave me a few months back, Awesom-o. He was respectful, succinct, and downright blunt, but still understanding and made me think about politics differently. Ever since I have not posted much in the thread because I know, and feel, that people far more educated in the subject can offer things in a more pertinent, and less idealistic manner than I can. Meanwhile, I'm taking the back seat, examining, learning, researching, and reading. You would do well to do the same.
IYKYK

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21977 on: December 08, 2012, 01:03:48 AM »
Crist is running for governor in 2014. I wonder if Obama/dems promised to clear the primary field for him in exchange for his 2012 endorsement. He worked pretty hard to get Obama re-elected, and it sure as hell wasn't just out of the kindness of his heart.
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Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21978 on: December 08, 2012, 01:06:28 AM »
Meanwhile, I'm taking the back seat, examining, learning, researching, and reading

"...until one day I'll have my revenge!"

Himu

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21979 on: December 08, 2012, 01:08:35 AM »
ahahaha
IYKYK

Human Snorenado

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21980 on: December 08, 2012, 01:14:14 AM »
Crist is running for governor in 2014. I wonder if Obama/dems promised to clear the primary field for him in exchange for his 2012 endorsement. He worked pretty hard to get Obama re-elected, and it sure as hell wasn't just out of the kindness of his heart.

Pretty much this, Mandark.  He's running for Governor again, and considering that Rick Scott is as popular as herpes with syphilis on top, he'll probably win.
yar

Human Snorenado

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21981 on: December 08, 2012, 01:27:07 AM »
Shit, we forgot- you're never wrong about anything on the internet.  thanks for reminding us why you're so AWESOME-0!
yar

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21982 on: December 08, 2012, 01:33:50 AM »
The one thing I agree with Puddles on: I seriously doubt the SC would rule against Obama if unilaterally raised the debt, because in doing so they would be violating the 14th amendment right?

Obama could also just mint a coin
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Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21983 on: December 08, 2012, 01:34:48 AM »
Look PD, if you're not even gonna read the posts...

Oblivion

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21984 on: December 08, 2012, 01:35:36 AM »
PS Rick Ungar's a guy who produced a bunch of Marvel cartoons in the 90's. 

Oh...my...god. That's the same Rick Ungar?  :o :o :o

Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21985 on: December 08, 2012, 01:43:35 AM »
My one piece of advice for idealistic, smart young people getting into politics: if there's some policy or strategy that you just thought of or read about, and it seems completely great and beneficial and simple and easy to implement, but it hasn't been done, then there is almost definitely a reason for that, and that reason is rarely that the people who do this professionally are complete idiots.

That goes for other stuff too, but doubly in politics.  It's really common to feel as if you've stumbled upon some fantastic low-hanging fruit, but it's nearly always more complicated.  There's some risk or downside you haven't considered, some legal or institutional roadblock, a problem with the political side (a lack of support or underlying conflict).  Someone has thought of this already, and they have tried, and it didn't come off.  The more interesting, informing, and useful question is going to be "why didn't this happen?" rather than "how stupid are they not to have my insights?"

Not that politicians are always right, but they are professionals and tend not to pass on achieving their agenda at little or no cost.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21986 on: December 08, 2012, 01:46:02 AM »
Look PD, if you're not even gonna read the posts...

I did! During the debt ceiling crisis Geithner at one point accused republicans of violating the constitution by putting US debt in question. I could have sworn Balkin wrote an article about this supporting Geithner's point, and I just kind of assumed the same would apply to the Supreme Court (ie they'd be constitutionally obligated not to rule against the president). Of course, markets would react very poorly to put it lightly, but I was moreso theorycrafting than making a definitive point.
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Human Snorenado

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21987 on: December 08, 2012, 01:48:27 AM »
I think the Obama people don't believe they have the authority under the 14th amendment, and even if they DID the resultant chaos from them going over Congress' head would destabilize shit to the extent that a shutdown would be preferable.
yar

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21988 on: December 08, 2012, 01:53:38 AM »
To be clear, I'm not taking the Unger position that this was a problem with a simple solution but centrist traitor Obama was to afraid to push the 14th amendment Win Button.

Disclaimer: in 2011, my argument was that Obama should have simply stopped negotiating and dared republicans to crash the economy. I still don't believe they would have jumped off that cliff
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Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21989 on: December 08, 2012, 02:02:38 AM »
PD: IIRC the way Balkin gamed it out was like this: the 14th Amendment doesn't cover all federal spending obligations, mostly just issued debt.  The administration would do the best it could to "faithfully execute" all the laws, but that includes the debt ceiling and the 14th, so there would be at least a partial government shutdown.  Meanwhile, the Treasury would do everything it could to make sure that the debt was treated as valid.  Eventually everything would start going to hell and the world economy would crash again, at which point either the GOP would cave or the president could claim emergency powers and issue new debt, at which point Congress either supports him or impeaches him.

Which is not exactly what's being proposed here.

I hope.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21990 on: December 08, 2012, 02:03:30 AM »
Puddles: That's another good point. Obama was largely negotiating from a position of weakness in 2011: republicans were coming off a big election victory, and the president was gearing up for a tough election of his own. I think republicans recognized that and capitalized. Although in hindsight the ultimate deal republicans got was pretty bad: it set up the domino effect we'll see in January, when Obama will have nearly a trillion dollars worth of defense cuts he can trade for concessions/demands.
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Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21991 on: December 08, 2012, 02:08:37 AM »
On the other hand, it's entirely possible that the Democrats from 2009-2010 would have been better off with random PoliGAF members designing their overall strategy compared to what they actually did.

2009-2010 did more than anything to convince me that the median armchair LBJ is no more insightful than the median armchair Belichick.  I mean, fucking Prole, who is way smarter than I am, was saying stuff like "Single payer was on the table".  Mass hysteria.

Human Snorenado

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21992 on: December 08, 2012, 02:14:59 AM »
I think after 2008, speaking for myself (as someone who is not smarter than Mandark or Prole) I guess I let hubris get the best of me.  I thought, "we're right, a nice majority of the country has decided we're right, and these fuckers are DONE."  I forgot that a lot of people are stupid, and a lot of people while not "stupid" exactly, are easily persuaded low information voters.  And I also forgot the nature of the enemy... the past 3 years have shown that they will lie, lie, and lie some more and the media are dickless enough to let them get away with it, which is a shitty way to run a country but oh well.

In the long run, demographics still don't favor the GOP, but man losing so many elections in 2010 really fucked the dems, especially as far as drawing congressional districts goes. 
yar

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21993 on: December 08, 2012, 02:20:46 AM »
There's no question that democrats botched the health care roll out, but I wouldn't go so far as to claim I could have guided dems to the promised land. That being said I think we can all agree Harry Reid (and Obama) let Baucus waste very valuable time trying to kick Olympia Snow's Lucy's football. Likewise I think most people who watched the healthcare debate closely were baffled at how poorly democrats handled the communication aspect of things. Obviously the media played a role by being unable to discus policy, but democrats also deserve blame for not being able to show folks why the bill needed to be passed with unemployment at 10%. In hindsight, it reminds me of how the Romney camp allowed Obama's camp to define him all summer with the Bain ads, and by the time Romney fought back it was too late.
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Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21994 on: December 08, 2012, 02:25:54 AM »
PD: If you assume that centrist Dem Senators would have voted for a giant health care bill without exhausting the search for bipartisan cover.  Pretty sure the passage time for ACA was pretty standard for a major bill, at that.  But liberals thought it took forever and conservatives thought it was rushed through.  Funny that!


http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/07/debt-ceiling-crisis-posts.html  Jack Balkin's pieces on the debt ceiling stuff from last year.  Third link seems to be the one I was remembering in particular.

Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21995 on: December 08, 2012, 02:28:17 AM »
I have better comparisons!

Obama hitting Romney on Bain ~= Bush hitting Kerry on Vietnam.

GOP closing ranks and freaking out old people about the ACA ~= Democrats closing ranks and freaking out old people about Bush's Social Security privatization.

Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21996 on: December 08, 2012, 02:39:11 AM »
Nope, don't all agree on that.

Circa Scott Brown being elected there was pressure on Obama to scrap the ACA and pass a much smaller bipartisan health bill.  More generally, is there a two year period in the last four decades of American politics that was more productive than 2009-10?

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21997 on: December 08, 2012, 02:47:26 AM »
Obama hitting Romney on Bain ~= Bush hitting Kerry on Vietnam.

In short, letting the opponent dominate messaging with no pushback until it's too late

Pelosi had the votes in the House (with a republican at one point), so ultimately it was all about the senate. Once Franken arrived, the goal became enticing/bribing specific democrat senators (Nelson, Landreu mainly). Snowe may have initially been interested in voting for the bill, but it became obvious after awhile that her sole job was to water down the bill, and still vote against it.

The MA race wouldn't have mattered if dems had pushed the bill through, Scott Walker style.
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Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21998 on: December 08, 2012, 03:10:13 AM »
Yeah, a bipartisan bill would have been a fig leaf, to avoid complete failure after all that effort rather than solve anything.  Which points up just how important the ACA was.

"At best" the ACA is the biggest, most ambitious expansion of the welfare state since the Great Society, achieving something that Truman, Carter, and Clinton failed to achieve and that LBJ didn't even try, something 90% similar to the Edwards plan that everyone agreed was super-liberal in 2007, and something vastly greater than the health plans in the Gore or Kerry platforms.

It's still amazing to me how many progressives are so quick to dismiss the bill because they thought 2008 had broken the GOP and turned us into the United States of Sweden or something.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #21999 on: December 08, 2012, 03:18:35 AM »
Mandark: btw you watching Proleague right now? STX and SKT about to go to the ace match
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/SC2ProLeague

I was disappointed about the public option and Pharma stuff, but you're right. Many folks on the left liked Edward's plan in 2007 more than the Clinton and Obama ones - and that's what we got, basically.
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Mandark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22000 on: December 08, 2012, 03:26:17 AM »
The public option became sort of a totem for the left.  "We won this election, we've crushed the GOP twice, and now we're letting Joe Lieberman write policy!? Fuck that noise!"  Pretty understandable, in the circumstances.

Which isn't to say the PO isn't good or liberal policy, but it took on way more importance for a lot of people because of the symbolism.  Which I think is pretty clear because 1) during the primaries nobody said "these health plans are all corporatist shams, except for the public option part!" 2) nobody pushed for Democratic Congressional candidates to include it in their platforms, or otherwise lobbied for it, afterwards, and 3) when that story came out about the pseudo-PO that was included as part of the compromise, everyone was completely shocked.  smh

Steve Contra

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22001 on: December 08, 2012, 02:29:39 PM »
I think the Obama people don't believe they have the authority under the 14th amendment, and even if they DID the resultant chaos from them going over Congress' head would destabilize shit to the extent that a shutdown would be preferable.
This is pretty much all that needs to be said on the 14th amendment option.  No one wants to see the largest cornerstone of the world economy be decided on by the supreme court. 
vin

Human Snorenado

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22002 on: December 08, 2012, 05:01:00 PM »
Especially THIS fucking Supreme Court.   :yuck  Really hoping Kennedy retires and Scalia is killed by a meteor sometime in the next four years.  Yes, I'm a petty man.
yar

Yeti

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22003 on: December 08, 2012, 10:20:32 PM »
So any predictions how this is going to pan out form The Bore's best and brightest? Will a crappy comprise be met that everyone hates? Will we plummet over the cliff?
WDW

Human Snorenado

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22004 on: December 08, 2012, 10:44:46 PM »
So any predictions how this is going to pan out form The Bore's best and brightest? Will a crappy comprise be met that everyone hates? Will we plummet over the cliff?

We are 100% going over the cliff imo.  These fuckers be cray.  It's not going to be so bad immediately, however.  If we do get a deal, Boehner probably loses the speakership and then Cantor does a debt ceiling hostage thing.  Make no mistake, the crazy wing of the party (redundant, I know) wants to piss in the punch bowl in whatever manner they can.
yar

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22005 on: December 09, 2012, 03:33:14 AM »
Anderson Cooper Calls Out GOP Senator: You Have ‘Very Scary Hypotheticals’ But No Proof
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cooper-calls-out-gop-senator-on-disability-treaty-you-have-very-scary-hypotheticals-but-no-proof/

wow

Anderson :bow
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Broseidon

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22006 on: December 09, 2012, 08:45:54 PM »
Getting duped by fake studies? I guess we know who really has the low IQ here
bent

Van Cruncheon

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22007 on: December 09, 2012, 08:55:56 PM »
On the other hand, it's entirely possible that the Democrats from 2009-2010 would have been better off with random PoliGAF members designing their overall strategy compared to what they actually did.

2009-2010 did more than anything to convince me that the median armchair LBJ is no more insightful than the median armchair Belichick.  I mean, fucking Prole was saying stuff like "Single payer was on the table".  Mass hysteria.

that was definitely my political version of my nintendo ds moment, where i conflated my biases with my perception of reality :-(
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 08:57:37 PM by Van Cruncheon »
duc

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22008 on: December 09, 2012, 09:05:52 PM »
At the time, it seemed very possible, like it was just within the reach to have it.  Alas...
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Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22009 on: December 09, 2012, 09:23:54 PM »
At the time I was pissed off that it seemed like great opportunities to make serious inroads in things that desperately needed reform were slipping through their fingers due to the likes of people like Ben Nelson.  At this point, I'd rather they did what they did instead of try for something huge and throw away their political capital for something that might not have really worked anyway.
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22010 on: December 10, 2012, 03:25:36 PM »


I guess Governor Snyder figured he could get away with right-to-work after the collective bargaining initiative failed on the ballot on election day, but it has backfired; he hasn't signed it yet but apparently he plans on doing so tomorrow.

This strikes me as a good point on something that is often overlooked when controversial votes are taken: elections matter. The sophomoric argument that both parties are exactly the same therefore why vote doesn't apply, especially on the state and local levels. I'm not going to preach on this without admitting my own guilt here: I voted for Snyder. I didn't like the state democrat party, didn't like the governor nominee in 2010, and sure as hell didn't like Jenny From The Block. I figured Snyder would be held in check by divided government, I believed he was more of a technocrat than an ideologue, etc. And in some ways I was right about Snyder - he has batted down ridiculous voter ID laws and most of the ridiculous social conservative agendas. But he has also proven to be quite right wing on budgets, taxes, and now labor issues. It's a shame the democrat party here is in such disarray, I honestly think Snyder can get re-elected considering the economy here continues to slowly improve.

010

Steve Contra

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22011 on: December 10, 2012, 06:20:04 PM »
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/12/10/gold_coin_boom_worried_republicans_stocking_up.html

Quote
The irony of gold buyers is that while yellowish metal has a reputation as a conservative investment, it's basically the most purely speculative investment you can make. There's no way I can think of that you can even conceptualize what the fundamentals of gold are or are supposed to be.

 :lol
vin

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22012 on: December 10, 2012, 10:31:30 PM »
The fundamentals are to not die an agonizing death when the ancient ones awake from their long slumber and demand tribute from each human being in the form of that which gives them sustenance
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 10:38:57 PM by recursivelyenumerable »
QED

Human Snorenado

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22013 on: December 10, 2012, 10:32:52 PM »
The fundamentals are to not die an agonizing death when the ancient ones awake from their long slumber and demand tribute from every human being in the form of that which gives them sustenance

Fuck that, you want to be EATEN FIRST in that case
yar

Oblivion

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22014 on: December 10, 2012, 10:51:35 PM »
What do you guys think of the idea of changing the rules for the new senate so that only cabinet and justice appointments would be accomplished by majority vote?

Phoenix Dark

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22015 on: December 13, 2012, 02:21:38 PM »
Sounds like Israel hater Chuck Hagel will be the next Sec of Defense. Going to need a statement from Mandark
010

TakingBackSunday

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22016 on: December 13, 2012, 03:52:16 PM »
Not a bad appointment.  But in shittier appointment news, Susan Rice withdraws her name from SoS possibilities.

Fuck John McCain, dude needs to croak already.
püp

TakingBackSunday

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22017 on: December 13, 2012, 03:54:52 PM »
I don't really mind that Kerry is likely to get it, but christ on a cross, this was supposed to be a SIMPLE FUCKING NOMINATION.
püp

TakingBackSunday

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22018 on: December 13, 2012, 04:03:01 PM »
hack-a-dwight  :lol
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Steve Contra

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Re: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
« Reply #22019 on: December 13, 2012, 05:17:08 PM »
Filibuster reform?  Pfffft.  It was never going to happen.
vin