"A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics

[Phoenix Dark]

It's online right now. The vote isn't until the weekend, so 72 hours will have passed

[FlameOfCallandor]

It's online right now. The vote isn't until the weekend, so 72 hours will have passed

oh okay, then sweet I guess.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Is this the house bill or senate bill? I've been out of it for a while.

I read somewhere that the only reason the house bill looks like it saves money is because they are putting the doctors expense in a separate bill being voted on today.

[Human Snorenado]

FoC has met his match
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18557094&postcount=36984

Damn, my joke account has been sniffed out.  Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Liberals angry that taxpayers can't pay for their education anymore.

[youtube=560,345]33UU6MKuWSE[/youtube]

God California is a giant shithole. Break off into the ocean already and take all the hippies with you.

[FlameOfCallandor]

And all our delicious food.

Southern Cooking is all we need.

mmmmm chicken fried steak.

[Phoenix Dark]

Southern cooking/soul food>*

*daps FoC*

[FlameOfCallandor]

Keep eating like that and maybe Demi will unleper you if you know what I mean.

go eat some tofu hippie.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

 

[close]

[Tristam]

There's nothing wrong with some good mashed potatoes and a nice biscuit, but salisbury steak is fucking school cafeteria vomit.

[FlameOfCallandor]

That's chicken friend steak asshole.

[Dickie Dee]

Keep eating like that and maybe Demi will unleper you if you know what I mean.

go eat some tofu hippie.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

 

[close]

your response makes no sense

That's chicken friend steak asshole.

yes, we all know how "friendly" you get with chickens in your parts

[Robo]

How could you possibly eat a chicken friend? 

[FlameOfCallandor]

How could you possibly eat a chicken friend? 

With lots of gravy.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

yes, we all know how "friendly" you get with chickens in your parts

People fuck chickens in the Texas area 

[Mandark]

Is this the house bill or senate bill? I've been out of it for a while.

I read somewhere that the only reason the house bill looks like it saves money is because they are putting the doctors expense in a separate bill being voted on today.

I swear I explained this very thing when siamesedreamer brought it up, but the Bore's search function only gives you one result per thread.

*runs crying to demi*

[Robo]

I've noticed the search narrows as you get further from the root.  If you use the search with this thread open, it should search only within this thread and return multiple posts.  If you search from "Real Talk", you'll only get OT thread results.  From "General", you'll get both Gaming and Real Talk results.

[Mandark]

RoboJ

Found it:  http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=28125.msg893748;topicseen#msg893748

Kevin Drum writes it up better here.


Basically, in the 90's they created a new formula for Medicare to reimburse doctors.  It was too optimistic, and every two or three years they've passed a temporary patch which keeps doctor fees from dropping too much.  Congress knows they'll do it again, but they leave the formula on the books because it makes the 10-year budget projections look better.

The current bill is a long-term fix for reimbursement rates.  Basically it's just honest accounting, like including war funds when working out future deficits.

[FlameOfCallandor]

 

[TakingBackSunday]

you're pathetic

[Phoenix Dark]

http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/002357/
getting an Ntard vibe here

[Mandark]

Apparently Palin begins (at least) the first three chapters of her book with apocryphal or misattributed quotes.

My favorite is the one for Chapter 3.

[The Fake Shemp]

Bu bu bu bu Judd Gregg said she was qualified to be President last night

[Phoenix Dark]

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/landrieu-says-reid-will-soon-realize-no-triggers-no-bill.php?ref=fpa

Sounds like no public option in the final bill. Killing the public option, which is popular, isn't going to get these jokers re-elected. It doesn't seem to be about surviving politically as much as pleasing the insurance companies. smh

[Mandark]

What exactly is the health care bill going to do if there isn't a public option?

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/01/health-reform-made-simple/

[The Fake Shemp]

I think it's unlikely anyone gets a full subsidy unless you are living in a box. I think the reality is, without a public option and a federal exchange, insurance will still be quite costly.

[Mandark]

"Please explain how certain provisions, which are still being negotiated and will be re-negotiated in the conference, will personally affect my situation."

Dude, we just don't know.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I'm not sure why Democrats think that running to the right is what makes them popular.  It seems like all it does is embolden the GOP's attacks and pisses off the base that voted you in.  Especially if it is something a clear majority supports.  It almost seems like the thing to do for some Democrats if there is any controversy by default, I don't know.

[Mandark]

Let's remember that 90-odd percent of the Democrats in both houses have no problem with the public option.

The bill is taking forever because of a small number of "centrist" Senators who have disproportionate leverage because some arcane parliamentary procedures have mutated into a supermajority requirement.  If it were a straight vote with majority rules, we'd be a lot further along.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Maybe not.  Any time a Senator realizes they could be the make-or-break vote, they're compelled to make a big show of deliberating and won't support it unless they're personally wooed.  It's in their DNA or something.

[close]

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I should have stated "some Democrats" but I do find it annoying that barring major problems, the GOP in Congress tends to be pretty lockstep and enforces the party line well.  Democrats don't have that strength and the frayed edges lean right of the pack, not left.

[Human Snorenado]

I should have stated "some Democrats" but I do find it annoying that barring major problems, the GOP in Congress tends to be pretty lockstep and enforces the party line well.  Democrats don't have that strength and the frayed edges lean right of the pack, not left.

Unfortunately that's a byproduct of not having anything but pretty much hard right conservatives left in the party.  No more Lincoln Chafees, etc.  I guess you've got the two dingbats from Maine, but other than that the "reasonable Republican Senators" are supposed to be President McCain and Lindsay Graham, so yeah.

[FlameOfCallandor]

So if I am required under this bill to have health insurance, but I can't afford it, what happens then?

I think you have to pay penalty for not having health insurance ($1500??).

[FlameOfCallandor]

So it looks like health insurance companies cannot deny care because of a pre existing condition? Does that mean I should only sign up for healthcare whenever I'm sick?

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

No but with 45-50 million without healthcare, there are bound to be some who have some illness, considering it is about 1/6 of the population.

Of course, you weren't looking for a legitimate answer to that question.  I'm not sure what is worse: the fact that you make such shitty posts or the fact that people know they are shitty, but provide legitimate answers anyway.  It isn't like it will reverse your deeply entrenched yet brain dead libertarianism, which works not unlike a cancer.

[Brehvolution]

I'd be interested in the percentage of those without health insurance because of preexisting conditions.

[Mandark]

So it looks like health insurance companies cannot deny care because of a pre existing condition? Does that mean I should only sign up for healthcare whenever I'm sick?

Yeah!

Unless there were some sort of mandate to prevent you from gaming the system...

[FlameOfCallandor]

So it looks like health insurance companies cannot deny care because of a pre existing condition? Does that mean I should only sign up for healthcare whenever I'm sick?

Yeah!

Unless there were some sort of mandate to prevent you from gaming the system...

Like what?

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

To nobody in particular, which is worse:

1) Jesus Camp kids praying to a Bush cardboard cutout
2) Psalm 109:8 for Obama

I can't imagine any domestic Christians have openly called for prayers of death for a President since Kennedy.

[Mandark]

So it looks like health insurance companies cannot deny care because of a pre existing condition? Does that mean I should only sign up for healthcare whenever I'm sick?

Yeah!

Unless there were some sort of mandate to prevent you from gaming the system...

Like what?

So if I am required under this bill to have health insurance, but I can't afford it, what happens then?

I think you have to pay penalty for not having health insurance ($1500??).

.

[Phoenix Dark]

Three democratic senators are holding up the public option. Three. The majority of the senate and house support the public option. The White House has suggested they support a public option. But three senators are going to get their way. Nevermind mind that this process has been one compromise after another to get them to cooperate.

smh

[Mandark]

So if I am required under this bill to have health insurance, but I can't afford it, what happens then?

I think you have to pay penalty for not having health insurance ($1500??).

If I don't have the money to pay the penalty?

"Please explain how certain provisions, which are still being negotiated and will be re-negotiated in the conference, will personally affect my situation."

Dude, we just don't know.

.

[Mandark]

Expanding coverage is the primary goal of the bill.  Cutting costs over the long term is second.

The public option likely won't lower insurance premiums much or at all.

There are a number of cost containment provisions in both the House and Senate versions of the bill.

Please stop getting all declaratory about stuff if you're not gonna do the reading.

[The Fake Shemp]

The only thing the Republicans are correct about is that this bill is essentially a poison pill for single-payer. Even if there is an opt-out public option that comes to pass, the financial burden created by the health care industry will inevitably lead to a single-payer system.

Is the Senate axing the federal exchange, as well?

[Mandark]

"Trojan horse" you mean.  A "poison pill" is when you attach something to a bill which makes it very hard for other people to vote for it.  The Save Springfield bill with a Perverted Arts amendment.

The GOP has (and had when it was in power) the ability to shape health reform.  They could have tried to create a sustainable system which would still be mostly market-based and preclude the need for single payer in the future.  Even now, if they could deliver even 10 votes in the Senate for the bill, they'd instantly get a bunch of concessions.

But they've decided to do their best to stop a bill from passing no matter what's in it.  If it works, like it did in '93, then they can say Obama's a failure who can't get anything done.  If it doesn't, then massively important legislation is going to be passed without their being able to influence it.




GS:  If you want to learn more about the details of the bill, read this, Ezra Klein's blog at the Washington Post, Jonathan Cohn's blog at The New Republic, and the Health archive at the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities.

[ToxicAdam]

Just more corporate welfare. At least this reform will consolidate the industry so Senators don't have to take so many lunches with different lobbyists. Makes the process work much smoother.


Trojan horses can be knee capped when/if the balance of power shifts. Better get working on that jobs bill.

[Human Snorenado]

The only thing the Republicans are correct about is that this bill is essentially a poison pill for single-payer. Even if there is an opt-out public option that comes to pass, the financial burden created by the health care industry will inevitably lead to a single-payer system.

Is the Senate axing the federal exchange, as well?

Who knows?  If Capt. Surrender Reid coughs up and gives in to a triggered public option or getting rid of it altogether too early then the whining babies (Lieberman, Landrieu, Nelson, Lincoln etc) will probably figure out that they can look even more OMG BIPARTISAN/MODERATE by begging for more stuff to get stripped out of the bill.  Then there are other people like Wyden from Oregon who are determined to open the exchanges up to MORE people (which sounds like a good idea to me, but I'm not too up on it) so there you go. 

In any event, expect Very Serious People like David Broder, etc to hail the whining baby brigade as sensible, moderate heroes for making the bill worse, since anything that annoys liberals must be good.

TA: supposedly there's a couple hundred million or so sitting in the TARP fund that the dems are going to want to shift into a jobs bill next spring or so... just in time for the Republicans to look like idiots for opposing it going into the elections.

[Human Snorenado]

Ask him to explain the disastrophe on Wall St. last fall using that "profit motive" explanation.

[Human Snorenado]

Yes, reality is well known to have a liberal bias.

[Phoenix Dark]

Can't blame Reid here. Three senators aren't playing ball, what's he going to do, go all LBJ on them?

[Human Snorenado]

Can't blame Reid here. Three senators aren't playing ball, what's he going to do, go all LBJ on them?

Neither Reid nor Obama have suitable balls.  I swear the country would be better off with Dick Durbin and Nancy Pelosi running things.

[ToxicAdam]

Well, the stimulus bill WAS a jobs bill. Rahm even admitted as much at the time. They just grossly underestimated the unemployment figures and eliminated a huge chunk of the "make work" programs because the Obama adminstration was afraid of being labeled "socialist".

Can't blame Reid here. Three senators aren't playing ball, what's he going to do, go all LBJ on them?

Bribe them with 100's of millions of dollars. Oh wait, he already tried that.

[Phoenix Dark]

Can't blame Reid here. Three senators aren't playing ball, what's he going to do, go all LBJ on them?

Neither Reid nor Obama have suitable balls.  I swear the country would be better off with Hillary Clinton running things.

fixed 

I agree I'm just sayin', what can Reid do. I'm not convinced Obama wants a public option, we know Rahm doesn't.

[Mandark]

Well, the stimulus bill WAS a jobs bill.

Yep.  The labor market is what they're trying to stimulate.

They just grossly underestimated the unemployment figures and eliminated a huge chunk of the "make work" programs because the Obama adminstration was afraid of being labeled "socialist".

Not quite how it happened.  The bill got changed in the Senate to get the support of the Nelson-Collins gang, and the biggest loser was aid to the states, especially in education.

[Human Snorenado]

Taibbi weighs in on the WWE/Gump-esque rise of Sarah Palin.

Sarah Palin is the Empress-Queen of the screaming-for-screaming’s sake generation. The people who dismiss her book Going Rogue as the petty, vindictive meanderings of a preening paranoiac with the IQ of a celery stalk completely miss the book’s significance, because in some ways it’s really a revolutionary and innovative piece of literature.

Palin — and there’s just no way to deny this — is a supremely gifted politician. She has staked out, as her own personal political turf, the entire landscape of incoherent white American resentment. In this area she leaves even Rush Limbaugh in the dust.

[Mandark]

We all get into furious arguments at work that make us want to explode in self-righteous fury (in my office dramas I always realize I was actually the asshole a day or so later)

I know it's mean to take shots at people based on self-deprecating admissions, but boy howdy am I not surprised by this.

[Human Snorenado]

We all get into furious arguments at work that make us want to explode in self-righteous fury (in my office dramas I always realize I was actually the asshole a day or so later)

I know it's mean to take shots at people based on self-deprecating admissions, but boy howdy am I not surprised by this.

OMG MATT TAIBBI USES SCANDALOUS LANGUAGE THE GHOST OF TIM RUSSERT IS ROLLING OVER IN IT'S GRAVE I TELL YOU

[Mandark]

Not so much the bad language as the constant, raging contempt for all people who are not Matt Taibbi.  He's written some very good stuff (and his share of crap) but he could be a lot better if he dialed down the Jim Rome act.

[Human Snorenado]

Hey, there's a lot of stuff to be pissed off about.  People who like Transformers, for instance.

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, Mandark, sorry for my slip up. That would be the correct terminology.

Also, what is worse: Republican plan for health care or Transformers? We report, you decide.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Just from what I've seen from him, it would be very difficult to get Ben Nelson on board.  Nebraska is a far right wing state with him and used to be Ernie Chambers (the guy that sued God and wanted to racially divide Omaha, remember?) being the only two influential Democrats in the state.  I'd still wager that the only reason why Obama won Omaha was because of Warren Buffett's endorsement, not because of the ethnic diversity.  Going from local ads, the FUD on both health care and cap and trade is cranked up to 11.  If he trips up too many times, a former football coach will probably get the seat from him.

He's still a chickenshit though.  He could vote for a public option health care bill and be just fine.  He'll take some heat but he's firmly entrenched in the state.

[Phoenix Dark]

But democrats in Nebraska endorsed the idea of a public option