The NBA thread

[Stoney Mason]

AKRON, Ohio -- LeBron James stood before 360 third-graders on Monday, telling them their futures are bright.

Plenty of ominous signs notwithstanding, he believes the same is true for the NBA.

In an interview with The Associated Press, the Miami Heat forward said he is not considering offers to play internationally during the NBA lockout -- with one catch. He's committed to the 2012 Olympics and trying to help the United States defend the gold medal he helped win at the Beijing Games.

"I'm optimistic that we will have a season this year," James said. "Very optimistic."

A little anxious, too.

He's working out twice a day, trying to erase some of the sting that's still there after the Heat lost to the Dallas Mavericks in the NBA finals.

"Right now I've just been focusing on being a better player, working on my game every single day," James said at a news conference before the AP interview. "Like I said, the Dallas Mavericks were a great team and they deserved to win that championship. And I'll just use that as motivation coming into this season."

He's also trying to deliver on his vow to be even better whenever the Heat resume play, saying he's been in Houston at times this offseason to learn post play from one of the game's all-time greats, former Rockets star Hakeem Olajuwon.

"I'm doing whatever it takes to just become a better basketball player," James told ESPN's Rachel Nichols. "Just everyday just trying to critique my game -- seeing ways that I can get better so I can be more of a complete basketball player on the court, a better leader on and off the court and continue to work towards my goal of winning an NBA championship."

"I look at what he was able to do throughout his career," James told the AP about working with Olajuwon. "Unbelievable talent. Multiple champion. Just to see how he was able to dominate in the low post, for me as an individual, I just try to look at some of the things I feel I need to get better at and hit home at it. Our team becomes better if I continue to get better and that's what it's about."

So even with signs of major trouble afoot in the NBA -- union chief Billy Hunter told a conference of attorneys in Baltimore last week that he would bet against there being a 2011-12 season "at this moment" -- James remains hopeful.

"I'm preparing for an NBA season," James told Nichols. "I'm preparing for there to be a training camp in the next month. I'm very optimistic that Billy Hunter and the owners and David Stern will figure out a way to come together and for us to have a season. And I'll be ready for it."

He said he understands why someone like star guard Deron Williams would feel compelled to seek a deal overseas and why Kobe Bryant appears to be flirting with the notion. It's just not for him, he said.

"We all love the game of basketball so much," James said. "And the love of the game is always going to be there. Guys love the game."

The Olympics count as a motivating force as well. And in time, he hinted he may even try recruiting some of his NBA pals in an effort to convince them to play in London next summer.

Not yet, though.

"I love representing my country and doing it the way I love to do it and that's playing the game of basketball," James said. "So I would love to be a part of the 2012 team traveling to London and defending our gold medal."

James was in his hometown Monday to open "Wheels for Education," a program he's doing in conjunction with corporate partners State Farm, HP and Nike to provide hundreds of third-graders from Akron Public Schools academic tools they need. The program will follow those kids through their high school graduations in 2021, and James wants the initiative to continue growing annually -- plus even sees a chance to take it beyond his hometown, maybe to South Florida, maybe even internationally.

Doused by rain on his 2-mile bike ride through Akron with 22 children ambassadors for the program pedaling alongside him, James said it still resonates deeply within when he hears screams of joy in his hometown. Some people carrying signs in support of James showed up at the event more than two hours beforehand, hoping just for a glimpse of the two-time NBA MVP.

"He just lives in Miami," said Doris Thomas, who brought her grandson. "He's one of us. He's Akron."

The kids all get a laptop, a backpack with school supplies, and a bike.

"I believe LeBron is a better person than he is a basketball player," Akron Mayor Donald Plusquellic said. "And I believe he's the best basketball player that ever lived. So that puts it in perspective, because he cares. He gives back. He doesn't have to do this. Riding around the city street, taking a chance on falling or something, giving back here and having some jerk yell something like they yell at me ... there's a sincerity inside of him."

James said the balance between charitable causes -- like giving children of military families scholarships to his camp in San Diego, the 'Wheels for Education' program and other events geared toward youth -- and playing as much as he can have helped him begin getting geared up for the new season. Even Monday night, he was off to go play in a rec league game with some friends from high school.

It was just a part of a busy two days for James: On Tuesday, a new $240,000 clubhouse -- some of the $3 million generated from his 'Decision' show last summer -- at Akron's Boys & Girls Club will be named in his honor, and later that night James and four of his high school teammates will be added to the athletic Hall of Fame at their alma mater, St. Vincent-St. Mary High School.

"I'm just using what I have, using my ability, for better and good," James said.

[Joe Molotov]

Did he posterize any of the third-graders while he was there?

[Stoney Mason]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/17/delonte-west-home-depot-nba-lockout_n_930016.html

[Phoenix Dark]

oh man what a resume

    * St. Joesph's

    * Fucked LeBron's mom

[Joe Molotov]

We might not have NBA basketball, but at least we've got Georgetown fighting a bunch of chinamen.

[youtube=560,345]bk4922fJgQc[/youtube]

Thanks for starting World War III, guys.

[OptimoPeach]

USA lost

YEA AHA., YOU KNOW WAT IT IS... BLACK and YELLOW, BLACK and YELLOW
thrdvision 1 minute ago

[Phoenix Dark]

USA lost

YEA AHA., YOU KNOW WAT IT IS... BLACK and YELLOW, BLACK and YELLOW
thrdvision 1 minute ago

A professional Chinese team, or a college?

[Great Rumbler]

Professional team.

The Chinese team shot 57 free throws, compared to Georgetown's 15, yet the teams were TIED.

[Joe Molotov]

Mmmm...love me some home cookin'.

[Smooth Groove]

Someone tell them that Basketball and Kung Fu are two different sports.

[youtube=560,345]A6mUm-0hlEI[/youtube]

[Smooth Groove]

Craziest thing happened yesterday.  I was shooting around at a park with two short friends when a very tall but extremely skinny black man came up and asked if we wanted to play 2 on 2.  We laughed and said 3 on 1 would be more fair.  He picked up the ball and easily slammed it with two hands.  When he raised his hand to gauge if the basket was 10 ft, it was less than a foot away from the basket.  Afterwards he shot a couple of jumpers with a really smooth release.

We asked the guy if he played in College.  He answered, "College?  I play in the NBA."  We were all incredulous because he was so skinny.  One friend almost couldn't stop laughing.  He then told us that he played in Gonzaga and currently is playing for Detroit.  I was thinking that he was maybe a NBDL prospect that's struggling for 2 week contracts in the NBA.  One friend was nice to enough say that I hope your lockout ends soon, and the guy said "I hope so too."  But even after that, he appeared to be offended that we didn't seem to believe him and he left after taking a few more shots. 

We all laughed and said that maybe he meant NBA2K and we should have asked him PS3 or Xbox.  At dinner time, we looked up Gonzaga and Detroit Pistions, and astonishingly the dude's face came up as Austin Daye, 15th overall draft pick by the Pistons two years ago.  We had a once in a liftime chance to play with a NBA player but we blew it!   :'( 

It turns out Daye is not bad even though none of us knew WTF he was.  He averages about 7.5 pts and 4 rebounds in 20 mpg and already has a couple of nice highlights. 

[youtube=560,345]1oKwFvNFsLs[/youtube]

[youtube=560,345]ab18GuOYrjA[/youtube]

[Phoenix Dark]

  Even if he was lying, why wouldn't you play a quick game with someone like that? Just play two games, with him on each team then you could brag later about which of you was his best teammate

Never heard anyone in Detroit say Daye is good.

[Smooth Groove]

We were thrown off because he was so damn skinny.  6'11 and only 200lbs?  All three of us had been to NBA games and have never seen any NBA player that thin. 

We should have just offered him $20 each since he isn't making money now and have him act as a prop for some pics. 

[Stoney Mason]

Way back in the day my sister use to date a guy who played college basketball at a local school. I went out to the park with him one time and I was amazed at how good he was. He completely dominated every one. That's when I gained a lot of respect for college and NBA players. To me this guy was amazing and he never got close to being in the NBA. He was the second best player on his team for a bad college basketball squad. I couldn't imagine how good the good players really were.

[Joe Molotov]

We should have just offered him $20 each since he isn't making money now and have him act as a prop for some pics. 

You could have planked on him; once-in-a-lifetime chance man.

[Cormacaroni]

The weird thing is that Joe Dumars has been bringing in players like that ever since he scored big with Tayshaun Prince, who is obviously 6'9'' and rail-thin. Villaneuva is no bruiser. The 7 footer who now plays on the Raptors was also super-skinny. There are others I'm probably forgetting too.

[Mandark]

Ernie Grunfeld's been doing the same thing in Washington ever since he hit the jackpot with Andray Blatche.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

:'(

[close]

[Phoenix Dark]

The weird thing is that Joe Dumars has been bringing in players like that ever since he scored big with Tayshaun Prince, who is obviously 6'9'' and rail-thin. Villaneuva is no bruiser. The 7 footer who now plays on the Raptors was also super-skinny. There are others I'm probably forgetting too.

There was Rodney White before Prince. Then Amir Johnson, Chase Budinger, some others. Dumars has missed on so many draft picks (and free agents...and coaches), horribly. Lots of failed PFs and big men.

I wonder what happens to Rodney Stucky now, if Brandon Knight lives up to expectations.

[Cormacaroni]

Amir Johnson, that's it. I thought Chase Budinger was drafted by the Rockets though, and still played there. I'll take your word for it though - i watched exactly one Pistons game last season and it was so horrible I decided to never repeat. Been a while since I saw such a bunch of malcontents on one team.

Daye has skills but historically, you have almost no chance of thriving at a forward spot at his weight. True Hoop ran a statistical analysis of all 3 men ever and he was waaaay at the far end of the curve. No-one else like him has ever succeeded, basically.

[Phoenix Dark]

I haven't been a fan of the Pistons since Grant Hill left, but it's impossible not to get into arguments over the Pistons around here. Mainly focused on Dumars and his handling of the team over this rebuilding process. Coming within a play of  back-to-back championships is impressive, but that was ages ago. Since then the team has been handled poorly in drafts and free agency, not to mention the poisoning locker room atmosphere that Dumars let fester until coach after coach was thrown under the bus.

[Cormacaroni]

To be fair, the ownership situation is fucked so it's almost impossible to do a good job as a GM there. Witness Sacramento, Portland, New Orleans etc etc. Crazy short-term Hail Mary plays called by GMs desperate for one more season, great trades shot down because of cost etc...it's just impossible to implement any kind of coherent long term strategy somewhere like Detroit I think.

[pilonv1]

Isn't Amir Johnson (Advanced Stat for BESTGAF members) is like 6'8 right, not 7ft? He reminds me of Jerome Williams, who was also a Pistons/Raptors skinny froward.

real talk: I thought Cheick Samb was awesome after seeing him block 7 or so shots in a game for the Pistons.

[etiolate]

Yeah Sacramento had its glory years and has since been run into the ground with bad trades, mismanagement and general cheapness. Team hasn't had a good coach in years because management will only pick from the bargain bin.

[benjipwns]

I've been on the Austin Daye bandwagon forever. He's like Jordan without all the fat.

Or because way back in the day in Live 2000 I drafted somebody who looked exactly the same and was like 6-11, 195 and he wound up 99 rated and averaged like 25/9/7 as I won like eight titles. Clearly a prophecy about the coming of the Austin Daye era.

Isn't Amir Johnson (Advanced Stat for BESTGAF members) is like 6'8 right, not 7ft?

Yeah, 6-9 I think.

He crushed the shit out of the D-League. But Michael Curry wouldn't play him because he "hadn't proven himself in the league yet" which is great circular logic.

but it's impossible not to get into arguments over the Pistons around here.

Really? Everyone I know gave up on Joe D when he turned the Iverson cap hold into Charlie V and Ben Gordon then the Curry and Q debacles.

I thought Chase Budinger was drafted by the Rockets though, and still played there.

He was essentially, the Pistons drafted him for the Rockets.

To be fair, the ownership situation is fucked so it's almost impossible to do a good job as a GM there. Witness Sacramento, Portland, New Orleans etc etc. Crazy short-term Hail Mary plays called by GMs desperate for one more season, great trades shot down because of cost etc...it's just impossible to implement any kind of coherent long term strategy somewhere like Detroit I think.

The ownership thing is "fixed" now but it wasn't really because of that. It was Joe D fucking himself by first extending Rip and so on from the constant Eastern contender teams even though they clearly needed more pieces, then deciding to can Flip (to be fair the players were revolting led by Sheed and Prince) so he could hire his buddy who the players respected even less, then dealing for Iverson to get the cap space and squandering that while dumping guys like Amir.

I wouldn't call him great, but Joe D is still a pretty solid drafter. I do think he's too tied to trying to recreate the Pistons title teams and their style though.

[benjipwns]

Speaking of the thread title, if you missed it they announced all the legends stuff:
http://espn.go.com/espn/thelife/videogames/blog/_/name/thegamer/id/6874034/the-15-legends-nba-2k12?readmore=fullstory

[Phoenix Dark]

I remember defending the Iverson move, saying the cap at the end of the rainbow could translate into something good. Then...madness and stupidity. Fucking Charlie V

[benjipwns]

I still don't get it.

I thought the team was still "good enough" if they punted again with Chauncey and Rip for another year plus all the young pieces they had been stacking up on after the six and a half man team that went 64-18. And did one of those "rebuild on the fly" things teams like the Spurs and Blazers did.

And I was fine with the Iverson trade. Okay, you're going to clear out some cap space and get a real rebuilding going.

Then it was like Joe D had the cash burning in his pocket and had to spend it, as fast as possible on whatever he could get.

A year before the LeBron class. Not that the Pistons could have gotten most of them anyway, but still. Oh, and then Kwame Brown!

The fact that Charlie V and Ben could barely stay on the court, let alone figure out their role on the team (along with everyone else) thanks to Kuester just made things worse. Then they had the ownership shit this year.

Thankfully, they still have Austin Daye.

[Smooth Groove]

Daye has skills but historically, you have almost no chance of thriving at a forward spot at his weight. True Hoop ran a statistical analysis of all 3 men ever and he was waaaay at the far end of the curve. No-one else like him has ever succeeded, basically.

Yeah, dude can create his shot and has impressive range for his size.  Homeless man's Kevin Durant?

Daye definitely needs to spend more time in the weight room.  I'm seriously not exagerrating when I say that my forearm is probably thicker than his leg.  How can he be that thin after being in the NBA for two years?  In fact, he looks skinnier now than in the pictures of him last season.  If he hadn't look so much unlike the typical NBA player, you'd think that he's smoking crack in the offseason. 

[youtube=560,345]iio4wlDD_5s[/youtube]

[pilonv1]

Speaking of the thread title, if you missed it they announced all the legends stuff:
http://espn.go.com/espn/thelife/videogames/blog/_/name/thegamer/id/6874034/the-15-legends-nba-2k12?readmore=fullstory

Check out these confirmed rosters

http://www.pastapadre.com/2011/08/19/complete-historic-team-rosters-for-nba-2k12

Some of these teams will be so much fun

1964-65 Celtics: K.C. Jones, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Tom Sanders, Bill Russell, Tom Heinsohn, Larry Siegfried, John Thompson, Mel Counts

1971-72 Knicks: Walt Frazier, Dick Barnett, Bill Bradley, Dave DeBusschere, Jerry Lucas, Phil Jackson, Earl Monroe, Willis Reed, Luther Rackley

1990-91 Warriors: Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Chris Mullin, Tom Tolbert, Alton Lister, Rod Higgins, Sarunas Marciulionis, Mario Elie, Paul Mokeski, Vincent Askew (this team in pre-order deal)

1992-93 Hornets: Muggsy Bogues, Kendall Gill, David Wingate, Larry Johnson, Alonzo Mourning, Dell Curry, Johnny Newman, Kenny Gattison, Tony Bennett, Sidney Green, Kevin Lynch

So excited for my Warriors and the 92-93 Hornets

[benjipwns]

Half of those Warriors and Hornets rosters sound like they could form a journeymen bench guys of the early-mid 90s special hidden team. Actually, throw in the 1994 Nuggets and the 1995 Magic bench and you could really create a full roster.

I should do that as an association, plus Jon Konctrak from the Hawks. 

EDIT: Trailer,

[benjipwns]

ALL BLUE ERRYTHANG

[Stoney Mason]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/6970743/union-leader-billy-hunter-says-answers-nba-players


owners are not gonna cave this time. Players are screwed. For once I actually side with the owners in one of these sports labor situations.

[pilonv1]

@ lil Kim

[Phoenix Dark]

(Image removed from quote.)

ALL BLUE ERRYTHANG

C'mon Terry, you don't have any relevant celeb friends?

[Stoney Mason]

NEW YORK -- The NBA has canceled the remainder of the preseason and will wipe out the first two weeks of the regular season if there is no labor agreement by Monday.

Commissioner David Stern and deputy commissioner Adam Silver made the announcement after owners and players met for about four hours Tuesday but came no closer to an agreement -- despite a 50-50 split of basketball-related income being discussed as a way to break the stalemate and save the season.

"We were not able to make the progress that we hoped we could make and we were not able to continue the negotiations," Stern said.

No further meetings are scheduled. "Today was not the day to get this done. We were not able to get close enough to close the gap," union president Derek Fisher said Tuesday, speaking ahead of Stern.

The owners and the players, who have been locked out since July 1, had hoped to make significant progress and save the 2011-12 NBA season. But the two sides could not close the gap between their financial positions, and Stern said regular-season games are now at imminent risk of being lost.

"By Monday, we will have no choice but to cancel the first two weeks of the season," he said.


The players, who received 57 percent of basketball-related income in the last year of the expired agreement, said they made a new proposal of 53 percent of BRI on Tuesday -- a concession which they said would have given owners back more than $1 billion over six years.

According to the players, the owners countered with 47 percent, a slight increase from the 46 percent they had previously offered.

When the owners offered 47 percent, "that pretty much ended (the meeting)," executive director Billy Hunter said.

The two sides, in what Stern called a "very very small group," discussed whether a 50-50 split of basketball-related income was possible -- and that if so, both sides would go back to their constituencies with that plan.

"While we were in the process of doing that ... we were advised by the players that that would not be acceptable to them," Stern said Tuesday. "At that point it didn't seem to make a lot of sense to continue."

Would the owners have accepted a 50-50 split? "Adam and I felt comfortable and confident we could report to the players we could move to the next subject," Stern said.

"I was shocked (the players) didn't go for 50-50," a source on the owners' side told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard. "That was a gutsy move on the part of the players."

But sources told Broussard that Stern, Silver and San Antonio Spurs owner Peter Holt, in a small-group meeting with Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Derek Fisher and union lawyer Jeffrey Kessler -- really offered the players 49 percent of BRI, with the understanding that it would actually become 51 percent based on incentives related to the projected growth of the league.

The players countered by asking for 51 percent, which would increase to 53 percent based on those same incentives. The owners rejected that.

After making concessions on basketball revenue, the players entered the last several negotiating sessions looking for the owners to do the same.

Stern said the owners had removed their demand for a hard salary cap, were no longer insisting on salary rollbacks on current salaries, and would have given players the right to opt out of a 10-year agreement after seven years. But the money split was always going to be the biggest hurdle in these negotiations, with owners insistent on the ability to turn a profit after the league said 22 of its 30 teams lost money last season.

The owners indeed wanted to make a deal to save the start of the season, none more than New York Knicks owner James Dolan, sources told Broussard.

Stern said the league is about to take a $200 million hit from missing the preseason. "There's an extraordinary hit coming to the owners and the players," he warned.

"We're long past the point where we're trying to get 100 percent of what we were looking for," Silver added. "We haven't made a secret of the fact that we'd very much like to make a deal."

Stern said the league had already agreed there would be no rollbacks of current contracts.

With no deal forthcoming, there's no next meeting scheduled, Hunter added.

"There has been no discussion about next meetings," he said. "Maybe a month. Two months. Your guess is as good as mine."

The players felt they had given enough on economics, with Hunter saying their 53 percent offer would have translated to at least $200 million per season -- a sizable chunk of the $300 million owners said they lost last season.

But with that gap remaining, and the sides still divided on the salary cap structure, the NBA is now closer to losing games to a work stoppage for only the second time. And like in 1998-99, when the season was reduced to 50 games, players say they will not accept a bad deal just to get back on the court quicker.

"Our guys have indicated a willingness to lose games," Hunter said.

With no end to the lockout in sight, a number of players have already signed contracts to play in Turkey, China and Russia. And Kobe Bryant, one of the league's marquee stars, is reportedly near a 10-game contract worth more than $3 million with Italian club Virtus Bologna.

If Bryant goes to Italy, "We wish him well," Stern said, adding the effect on talks would be "none."

"Those are their rights, we have no reaction to that other than to be safe," Stern said of players going overseas. "It's not an issue at all for the owners."

Asked if the union would consider decertifiying -- the same tactic employed by the NFL players' union in their labor dispute this past summer -- Hunter hinted it's not out of the question.

"There are a lot of things that we have to consider before we go in that direction. But clearly that's something we may have to give some thought to," he said.

The sides first met among themselves, with the bargaining session starting in the early afternoon.

Bryant arrived Tuesday for the meetings, with Garnett and Paul Pierce of the Boston Celtics among players joining the union's executive committee.

They were sitting down with the labor relations committee of the owners, who locked out the players on July 1 when the sides were unable to agree to a new CBA.

The regular season is scheduled to open Nov. 1. Players would have reported to training camps Monday, but those were postponed and 43 preseason games scheduled for Oct. 9-15 were canceled last month.

The league locked out players on July 1 after the expiration of the old collective bargaining agreement. Seeking significant changes after saying they lost $300 million last season, owners want a new salary cap structure and are seeking to reduce the players' guarantee of basketball revenues.

ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher reported Monday that six powerful player agencies sent a letter to their clients over the weekend warning them of the financial damage the current proposals would cause them, and urging them to demand a full vote on any proposed deal.

Asked about the agents' letter, Hunter said "The agents aren't in the room. We have their players in the room. These players can set the record straight."

Stern said it would be difficult to have an 82-game regular season and not start Nov. 1, noting that arenas are already pressuring the league to see if they can schedule events later this year.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7059973/nba-labor-first-two-weeks-season-canceled-no-deal-monday-david-stern-says

[Joe Molotov]

OH NO, NOT THE PRESEASON!

I how Stern was like "If you don't get this settled by Monday, I'm cancelling the season." Monday "Okay, if you don't settle this by NEXT monday, then I'm cancelling the season for real this time!"

[ferrarimanf355]

Screw it, just play NBA Jam.

[Joe Molotov]

Screw it, just play NBA Jam.

Only there can I live out my dream of dominating the NBA with Chuck Person and Christian Laettner.

[Stoney Mason]

No NBA deal headed into deadline day

ESPN.com news services
NEW YORK -- NBA players and owners still have no deal headed into the deadline for starting the season on time.

Negotiators for the sides met for more than five hours Sunday before breaking for the night. They are scheduled to return Monday afternoon.

Neither side offered many details, though union officials confirmed they scrapped a planned meeting with membership in Los Angeles and will instead remain in New York to talk with league officials again.

"Another intense meeting, similar process. We're going to come back at it tomorrow afternoon," players' association president Derek Fisher said. "We're going to continue to try to put the time in to if we can get closer to getting a deal done."

If they can't come to a deal then, commissioner David Stern has said the first two weeks of the regular season will be canceled. It is scheduled to begin Nov. 1.

Stern left the meeting and said only, "no comment other than we are going to reconvene tomorrow morning."

[Himu]

[youtube=560,345]cuSMjUTGQTg[/youtube]

[youtube=560,345]hW4uXlRGAF0[/youtube]



Playing as 94 Rockets in NBA 2k12 is my favorite thing ever.

[Himu]

Trying to find that 95 Mario Ellie Sons playoff shot omg

Houston vs Phoenix 95

[youtube=560,345]aWGuUwjS4Pc[/youtube]

KISS OF DEATH

95 Rockets is still my favorite team ever. Drexler Team was 6th seed, fought Utah, Phoenix AND San Antonio with David Robinson winning the MVP to go onto sweep the Magic.

Vernon Maxwell tanglin' with Jordan

[youtube=560,345]Iu92R-UR12o[/youtube]

[Phoenix Dark]

Hakeem's footwork was second to none

[Himu]

[youtube=560,345]RBhgdg6Ydj4[/youtube]

[benjipwns]

Actually, just because the Admiral is up there in his worst moment. I've told people before that back in the day he could be like a 7-1 SG/SF and nobody believes it.

Thankfully this video is on YouTube:
[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

1992 Popovich in this one from the same game, heh:
[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

Beating up on the Clippers:
[youtube=560,345][/youtube]
lol at Rodman going crazy over each basket.

[Stoney Mason]

Interesting take.

If this week’s negotiating sessions represented the 11th hour of the labor dispute, then we’re quickly approaching the 59th minute. The league has made it clear that if a deal is not in place by Monday, regular season games will be cancelled. Fans of Derek Fisher might even point out that we’re quickly approaching the point where just four tenths of a second remain.

The two sides left the negotiating room Tuesday about three percentage points apart on the biggest issue. The split of basketball related income (BRI) is the elephant in the room. It’s the key to the entire process -- come to an agreeable number on the BRI split, and everything else will fall into place.

The rhetoric following the negotiating sessions made it difficult to pin the two sides to an exact number, but it essentially boils down to the owners offering 50 percent, with the players drawing a line in the sand at 53 percent.

Three percent. It’s the difference between an opening tipoff and an empty arena.

For both sides, the negotiating process boils down to a simple question -- should we accept the offer on the table, or can we do better if we say “no” and wait?

For the players, the cost of saying “no” can be easily quantified. The owners have offered the players 50 percent of BRI. This season’s BRI is expected to be around $4 billion, so the owners are offering the players a $2 billion slice of the pie. The players are holding out for a 53 percent share, so they’re looking for $2.12 billion.

That’s $120 million that separates them. Of course, that’s just in year one. Over the course of a six-year agreement, assuming four percent growth per year, the total is closer to $796 million.

To say “no” and wait means to suffer the consequences. Those consequences very soon will be cancelled games, meaning revenue will be lost that will never be recouped. The players will be faced with choosing between a 50 percent share of a larger pie, and a 53 percent share of a smaller pie. The longer they hold out, the more the pie will shrink.

If we use the 1998-99 lockout as a guide, a canceled game costs each player 1/82nd of his salary. A full NBA regular season lasts 170 days, so each missed week represents 7/170th of a player’s income. So if a week’s worth of games is cancelled because they say “no” to the owners’ 50 percent offer, the players miss out on $82.4 million.

The players are holding out for an additional $120 million in 2011-12, but holding out costs them $82.4 million per week. They would lose everything they stand to gain this season in less than two weeks. On Monday the league is expected to announce the cancellation of the first two weeks of the season, which will cost the players $164.8 million.

Over a six year agreement, the players would burn through the $796 million in a little under 10 weeks. If they continue to hold out for 53 percent, and the owners hold firm at 50 percent, the players will reach the break-even point around December 16th. If the sides settle for 53 percent past that date, then the players would have been better off by taking the owners’ offer of 50 percent before games were cancelled.

Keep in mind that December 16th represents the point at which the players as a whole will break-even. Each individual player would need to stay in the league for six years to recoup his lost wages. In a league where the average career lasts fewer than five years, that’s going to be a problem.

This is one reason the owners have an advantage in this labor dispute -- they have a longer window of time to recoup their losses. An average player is likely to be out of the league in a few years, but an owner can hang on to his team for decades.

The players and owners need to find a way to bridge the gap. They are close enough now that a creative solution -- such as a system where players are guaranteed to make no less than 51 percent and owners are guaranteed to pay no more than 52 percent -- can save an 82-game campaign.

For players, holding out for a better deal simply doesn’t make sense.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/32334/the-player-salaries-lost-to-a-lockout

[Beezy]

Goddammit...

[etiolate]

What's the point in fighting over the shares of millions if you don't fix a system that will slowly erode away those millions?

[Stoney Mason]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[Mandark]

What's the point in fighting over the shares of millions if you don't fix a system that will slowly erode away those millions?

The current system has produced increasing ratings and presumably revenue in the last few years, so that's not the problem.

[Stoney Mason]

After attending the last failed bargaining session to possibly end the NBA lockout in New York on Monday, Kobe Bryant was in a psychology classroom this week at the University of California-Santa Barbara answering questions from students and a professor about his stellar 15-year career. At one point, Bryant was asked about his lone most valuable player award in 2008 and used it as an opportunity to share a story about his former teammate and forever Wizard Kwame Brown.


I was not happy with Kwame. (Bebeto Matthews - AP) Brown, the Wizards’ No. 1 overall pick in 2001, was dealt to the Lakers for Caron Butler six years ago and played 2 1/2 seasons in Los Angeles, where he was sometimes booed at home games. Brown has had a serviceable yet undistinguished career that fell well short of expectations. But Bryant’s hilariously-delivered tale of Brown’s final game with the Lakers perhaps offered a glimpse into how confidence — or a lack thereof — contributed to his early career struggles in Washington and Los Angeles.

It probably didn’t help that Brown also had to play with two fiercely competitive and, shall we say, less-than-encouraging teammates in Michael Jordan and Bryant. But in a story complete with some head-slapping and cap-slamming, Bryant explained how he scored 39 points but the Lakers couldn’t overcome Brown’s bad hands as they lost, 90-89, to the Detroit Pistons. And, well, it’s pretty clear why the Lakers had completed a deal with Memphis for Pau Gasol the next day.

 
“I got to say, it was tough doing it that year. I was playing with guys, God bless them — God bless them — but Kwame Brown. Smush Parker. We had one game right before…by the way, what I say here, I say directly to them, see what I’m saying, I don’t talk behind people’s back. Things that I say to you, I’m comfortable saying this to them and I’ve said this to them...But like, the game before we traded for Pau, were playing Detroit and I had like 40 points towards the end of the game. This is back when Detroit had Rasheed [Wallace], Chauncey [Billups] and those guys, so we had no business being in the game. So down the stretch of the game, they put in a box and one. So I’m surrounded by these players, Detroit players, and Kwame is under the basket, all by himself. Literally, like all by himself. So I pass him the ball, he bobbled it and it goes out of bounds.
“So we go back to the timeout and I’m [upset], right? He goes, ‘I was wide open.’ ‘Yeah, I know.’ This is how I’m talking to him, like, during the game. I said, ‘You’re going to be open again, Kwame, because Rasheed is just totally ignoring you.’ He said, ‘Well, if I’m open don’t throw it to me.’ I was like, ‘Huh?’ He said, ‘Don’t throw it to me.’ I said, ‘Why not?’ He said, well, ‘I’m nervous. If I catch it and they foul me, I won’t make the free throws.’ I said, ‘Hell no!’
“I go to Phil [Jackson], I say, ‘Hey Phil, take him out of the game.’ He’s like, ‘Nah, let him figure it out.’ So, we lose the game, I go the locker room, I’m steaming. Steaming. I’m furious. Then, finally I get a call, they said, ‘You know what, we got something that’s happening with Pau.’ I was like, ‘Alright. Cool.’…That’s what I had to deal with the whole year.”
I remember traveling to Los Angeles in April of that season, when it appeared that Bryant was finally going to claim the game’s highest individual honor, and asking Bryant if he felt that his MVP run was aided by being surrounded with better talent.

My argument was that he had put together better individual seasons but few people gave him credit for playing with inferior supporting casts — especially in 2006, when he became the fifth player in NBA history to average at least 35 points, led a mediocre Lakers team to 45 wins and the playoffs, and didn’t finish in the top three in MVP voting. No doubt, Bryant concurred. He told me, “I have more bullets in the chamber now. We had Smush Parker, who is not really playing now. We had Kwame Brown, who’s in Memphis and not really playing much now. That was my point guard and my center…Now I’m fortunate to have weapons that my peers have had the last several years.”

So, yeah, he wasn’t exactly mourning the loss of Brown.

 


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/post/kobe-bryant-has-a-kwame-brown-story/2011/10/07/gIQAgsdnSL_blog.html

[Himu]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

No Barkley in 2k 12 is a travesty

[Phoenix Dark]

[youtube=560,345]mTgtAPDyZlE[/youtube]

I still remember when Dumars signed him. Some dude at the library was going on and on about how Kwame could be a double double guy in the right system/around the right players, and how we'd be contenders with him. Then this dude comes out of nowhere and is like "Kwame Brown? Kwame Brown?" and starts laughing 

[Great Rumbler]

[youtube=560,345]mTgtAPDyZlE[/youtube]

[etiolate]

What's the point in fighting over the shares of millions if you don't fix a system that will slowly erode away those millions?

The current system has produced increasing ratings and presumably revenue in the last few years, so that's not the problem.

Were you hoping I wouldn't google that real quick to double check that or what.

[Stoney Mason]

NBA cancels first 2 weeks of season

Despite meeting with players for seven hours Monday, the NBA has cancelled the first two weeks of the regular season.

Commissioner David Stern cancelled all games through Nov. 14 after owners met with the players' association in a last-ditch attempt to end the lockout and begin the 2011 season on time. He said both parties remain "very, very far apart."

NBA Lockout
The NBA owners have locked out the players, and little progress has been made in negotiations. ESPN.com Topics keeps you up to date with all of the latest on the NBA's ongoing lockout. Topics Page »

"Despite extensive efforts, we have not been able to reach a new agreement with the players' union that allows all 30 teams to be able to compete for a championship while fairly compensating our players," deputy Commissioner Adam Silver said in a statement Monday night.

Negotiators for both sides met for five hours Sunday in search of a new collective bargaining agreement. Both sides then agreed to continue meeting Monday.

Stern and Silver both took part in Monday's talks, along with senior vice president and deputy general counsel Dan Rube, San Antonio Spurs owner Peter Holt, Minnesota Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor and New York Knicks owner James Dolan.

They met with union president Derek Fisher of the Los Angeles Lakers, union vice president Maurice Evans of the Wizards, union executive director Billy Hunter and attorneys Jeffrey Kessler and Ron Klempner.

Stern said last week that the first two weeks of the regular season will be canceled Monday if the parties don't have the framework of a new labor agreement in place. The entire preseason schedule has already been canceled and training camps have been postponed indefinitely, but the Nov. 1 scheduled start to the regular season had not yet been ruled out.

Talks dissolved last week when the players rejected the league's offer to try to make a deal work by splitting annual revenues -- known as Basketball Related Income (BRI) -- at an even 50-50. In 2010-11, which was the final year of the NBA's previous six-year labor agreement, players earned 57 percent of BRI.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7085089/nba-labor-david-stern-cancels-first-two-weeks-nba-season

[etiolate]

If the players aren't allowing the shorter contracts then lol @ their faux concern for competitiveness.

[Mandark]

What's the point in fighting over the shares of millions if you don't fix a system that will slowly erode away those millions?

The current system has produced increasing ratings and presumably revenue in the last few years, so that's not the problem.

Were you hoping I wouldn't google that real quick to double check that or what.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2010/06/18/2010-nba-finals-most-viewed-ever-on-abc-series-averaged-18-1-million-viewers/54668/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/14/nba-finals-2011-ratings-g_n_876964.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/news/story?id=6467337
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2011/05/02/Research-and-Ratings/Overnights.aspx

 

Ratings fell off sharply post-Jordan, were mitigated a bit by the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, hit a nadir in '07 (with the turrible Spurs/LeBron finals) and have been rebounding in the last few years with LA, Boston, and Miami being big draws.  This is all pretty well known and uncontroversial, no?

[Cormacaroni]

Yeah, possibly we are guilty of only listening to NBA front office press releases here, but ever since the Celtics in 2008, the playoff/Finals ratings have been climbing.

Then again, as always, etiolate is in Sacramento, where all seems gloomy and doom-laden.

The players screwed up big-time in not accepting that rumored 50-50 basketball revenue split. It may not have been perfect but sooooo much better than the alternative we're seeing now.

[etiolate]

        11.3
   11.6
   12.1
   10.2
   6.5
   11.5
   8.2
   8.5
   6.2
   9.3
   8.4
   10.6
   10.2

Finals ratings since last lockout. Little consistency. Numbers go up and down. Ratings were initially higher for start of 2011 finals, but then fell off below the 2010 numbers.

Probably most telling of actual real NBA interest is the way the response to the NBA lockout has been far less passionate than a healthy league should expect.

[Himu]

Seriously, fuck the players. The owners offered a proposal that would have raised the average player's salary 5-7 million and STILL no deal. What the fuck.