The NBA thread

[Flannel Boy]

Everything I get interested in this season turns to shit.     First Rubio, now the Knicks.  RUN AND HIDE, KEVIN LOVE!

indeed

[Mandark]

I just hate it when Simmons passes off his own opinion as absolute truth.  When I hear about how clutch Kobe, Melo and Rose are, I just think "overrated fucks".

Kobe Bryant
Kobe slowly morphing into the anti-LeBron, an end-of-the-game killer

NBA Player "Clutch" Stats
Bryant .279 FG%
James: .400

There are three subjects where facts are almost always irrelevant: religion, politics, and sports.

Quote followed by

He's done such a savvy job of positioning himself as "The Guy Who Is SO Not Afraid of Big Moments" that it's easy to forget that he's been lousy in big moments

[DJ_Tet]

So now Dwight is staying.  NJ scrambling to get Gerald Wallace to include him in a trade before July 1 when Deron is a FA.

[Mandark]

Wonder how Mikhail Prokhorov is taking this, now that he's not busy running for president anymore.  Always got the feeling that he expected to just buy a loaded team like Roman Abramovich did at Chelsea, not realizing just how different and more restrictive the player movement regime is in the NBA compared to European soccer.

[Phoenix Dark]

Wonder how Mikhail Prokhorov is taking this, now that he's not busy running for president anymore.  Always got the feeling that he expected to just buy a loaded team like Roman Abramovich did at Chelsea, not realizing just how different and more restrictive the player movement regime is in the NBA compared to European soccer.

well we know how Sean Carter feels

(Ball so hard) This shit crazy, y'all don't know that don't shit faze me
The Nets could go 0 for 82 and I'd look at you like this shit gravy

[Stoney Mason]

If I was the Heat, I would have tried to pick up a rebounder.

Also lulz at the Nuggets. This is exactly why nobody should feel sorry for an owner as they claim the financial situation is untenable. Don't waste on players who aren't worth it. Anybody with a brain could tell you Nene isn't worth that contract.

The Denver Nuggets have agreed to trade Nene to the Washington Wizards in exchange for JaVale McGee and Ronny Turiaf. The Los Angeles Clippers, acting as a facilitator, agreed to send Brian Cook and a future second-round pick to the Wizards in exchange for shooting guard Nick Young, according to sources.

The trade marks a stunning reversal for the Nuggets, who had just committed five-years and $67 million to keep Nene this December. The move provides salary cap relief, however, as McGee is restricted free agent after the season.

The Clippers got involved in the deal late as a facilitator after choosing to hold on to young point guard Eric Bledsoe after talks with Portland for Jamal Crawford and Boston for Ray Allen fizzled.

In Young the Clippers get a dynamic young swingman for virtually nothing to replace Chauncey Billups, who was lost for the season with an Achilles injury in February. Young, who is from Los Angeles, is an unrestricted free agent after this season.

‏

@KBergCBS

League source says Nuggets had experienced some "buyer's remorse" after signing often-injured Nene to a five-year, $67M deal in Dec. '11.

[Human Snorenado]

I'm just shocked the Wizards broke up that awesome core of young players.

[TakingBackSunday]

Heat should've thrown like four people from their bench at a team to get a proper big man.

Also LOL at Cleveland, giving away one of their only other decent players (Sessions).

[Phoenix Dark]

Blazers waive Oden
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7692811/source-portland-trail-blazers-waive-former-no-1-overall-pick-greg-oden

Man, even as a hater of all things OSU I'm bummed. I always liked Oden, seemed like a cool dude. He was a solid defender and post presence when healthy, he just couldn't stay on the court.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Pistons sign him to a short contract; him and Monroe down low could be potent. Speaking of which, I shit on Dumars all the time but it looks like Greg Monroe was a solid draft choice. Dude is beasting

(that being said, lol @ Austin Daye)

[Smooth Groove]

If nothing else, Nick Young would fit with the Clips' high flying style. 

[Cormacaroni]

In terms of impact moves for the current season -

I think Sessions will make the Lakers a whole lot better, fuck. He's not quite exactly what they need but he's still a huuuuuuuge upgrade, and they got him for free basically.

[Great Rumbler]

Oden's played 82 games out of 410 that he's been in the NBA. It's just mind-boggling.

[Cormacaroni]

I stopped thinking about Oden a long time ago, frankly. The chances of some Grant Hill-like comeback were always remote. It's a far bigger story than it warrants, really (although like everyone else, I think he seems like a great kid and could have been an elite center..)

[Great Rumbler]

The sad part is that it was also the Trail Blazers who picked Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan.

[Phoenix Dark]

You don't pass up on a potentially elite center like that. At the time they made the right decision in drafting him

[Cormacaroni]

Why the Sessions-to-the-Lakers (and also dumping Fisher) thing is significant:

We've seen what can happen when the world's shittiest PG stops playing and a pretty good one takes over (Lin). Sessions is worse than Lin, I think, but he's soooo much better than Fisher and Blake that he's going to have a very dramatic impact. Just getting an average player minutes instead of horrible ones is huge. All of a sudden, the Lakers won't be completely eviscerated by every above-average PG. They haven't had anyone as good as Sessions in a long, long time. And they sent away more money than they took back! Again!

[Great Rumbler]

You don't pass up on a potentially elite center like that. At the time they made the right decision in drafting him

I didn't say it wasn't.

[Cormacaroni]

You don't pass up on a potentially elite center like that. At the time they made the right decision in drafting him

It was a defensible position at that time but since MJ totally disproved the 'need an elite center' theory, it is no longer defensible IMHO.

[Cormacaroni]

I mean, it's pretty clear that even if Oden had lived up to his potential (let's be kind and say Andrew Bynum), Durant is still the better player, right?

[Phoenix Dark]

Yea but at the time, did anyone think Durant was going to be this good? I consider myself quite an expert on these matters and even I thought he'd be a skinny bust.

[Cormacaroni]

Don't twist the argument to 'this good' - the point was BETTER than Oden. I thought he was better than Oden - he had one of the greatest college careers ever, brief though it was.

[Cormacaroni]

I'm betting that more mistakes are made drafting centers than any other position, btw. I'm sure someone has done some research into this - ring a bell, anyone? I mean, look at this list of Top 10 draft busts - 6 are centers, or 300% more than you'd expect

http://hoopism.com/?p=2186

[Phoenix Dark]

Don't twist the argument to 'this good' - the point was BETTER than Oden. I thought he was better than Oden - he had one of the greatest college careers ever, brief though it was.

I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just pointing out that at the time few thought Durant would be some superstar, whereas many seemed confident Oden would be quite a defensive force.

[Flannel Boy]

I'm betting that more mistakes are made drafting centers than any other position, btw. I'm sure someone has done some research into this - ring a bell, anyone? I mean, look at this list of Top 10 draft busts - 6 are centers, or 300% more than you'd expect

http://hoopism.com/?p=2186

Shawn Bradley never lived up to "Space Jam."

[Cormacaroni]

Yeah, but whether he would be a 'superstar' is beside the point. At the time, the only question was: will he be better than Oden?

We've seen time and time again how teams over-value the center position just because it's hard to fill, which no doubt keeps GMs up late at nights. If there hadn't been a strong candidate at the center position, Durant would have been locked into the number 1 spot in that draft months in advance, with no argument from anyone...and the 'superstar' hype would have risen accordingly.

[Human Snorenado]

Yea but at the time, did anyone think Durant was going to be this good? I consider myself quite an expert on these matters and even I thought he'd be a skinny bust.

It physically pains me to write this, but Bill Simmons was big on Durant's bandwagon and always thought Oden would be a bust, or at the very least not as good as Durant.

[Phoenix Dark]

I thought Rose would be a bust. We can't be right all the time, Triumph

[Smooth Groove]

Yeah, but whether he would be a 'superstar' is beside the point. At the time, the only question was: will he be better than Oden?

We've seen time and time again how teams over-value the center position just because it's hard to fill, which no doubt keeps GMs up late at nights. If there hadn't been a strong candidate at the center position, Durant would have been locked into the number 1 spot in that draft months in advance, with no argument from anyone...and the 'superstar' hype would have risen accordingly.

It wasn't just due to positioning.  At the combine, Oden outperformed Durant by significant margins in almost every category.  To PD's credit, I remember telling him that and he still said Durant would become the better player. 

[Human Snorenado]

I thought Rose would be a bust. We can't be right all the time, Triumph

...

...

...

I am speechless.  You thought Oden was gonna be a sure thing but Rose would be a bust?  Don't ever try to work for an NBA team as a talent scout.  Well, you might fit right in with the Wizards or Knicks...

[Smooth Groove]

I thought Rose would be a bust. We can't be right all the time, Triumph

Wait, didn't you call him a bum just a few months ago?  He hasn't improved much this season from last.  If anything, he's having a slightly worse season because of the missed games. 

[DJ_Tet]

Oden had a great game in the NCAA finals against a tough front line for Florida (Noah and Horford.)

As for Shawn Bradley, he had no business getting drafted 2nd, much less being in Space Jam.  He led the nation in blocks as a freshman but that was about it, then disappeared for a two year mission and came back and turned pro.  People wondered what the hell he was thinking but he turned out to be right when Philly drafted him 2nd.

I loled.  Bradley had a decent career for what he was, but he was never going to be able to live up to the hype of a #2 pick.

[Stoney Mason]

Portland would be pretty amazing if the whole Roy and Oden injury stuff hadn't happened.

[Smooth Groove]

I still remember people talking about how Bradley was going to destory Yao in their 1st matchup.   

[Flannel Boy]

Really? By the time Yao came into the league, Bradley was a bench player on the Mavs coming into games just so he could help opponents get on posters.

[Smooth Groove]

A quick check shows that Nick Young has a no-step 40" vertical.   

He and Chris Paul are gonna have some insane aerial hookups. 

Really? By the time Yao came into the league, Bradley was a bench player on the Mavs coming into games just so he could help opponents get on posters.

Many people were calling Yao overrated from the moment he was drafted.

Remeber when Barkley said he would kiss a donkey's ass if Yao would ever score 20 in a game?

 A large part of it was due to him being drafter higher than Jason Williams, the best college player and seemingly certain to become a superstar.  Also, early in Yao's rookie season, it did seem like he was indeed overrated.  Due to fear of not fulfilling the expectations of his team and country, it took about 15 or so games before Yao finally started to perform like he was capable of. 

[Cormacaroni]

Yeah, but whether he would be a 'superstar' is beside the point. At the time, the only question was: will he be better than Oden?

We've seen time and time again how teams over-value the center position just because it's hard to fill, which no doubt keeps GMs up late at nights. If there hadn't been a strong candidate at the center position, Durant would have been locked into the number 1 spot in that draft months in advance, with no argument from anyone...and the 'superstar' hype would have risen accordingly.

It wasn't just due to positioning.  At the combine, Oden outperformed Durant by significant margins in almost every category.  To PD's credit, I remember telling him that and he still said Durant would become the better player. 

Also remember you saying that Oden would likely make a 100% recovery

[DJ_Tet]

I don't remember anyone saying anything about Bradley in a positive light after his rookie year.  If he was going to 'own' Yao that was more a reflection of how people thought Yao would fail too than a proclamation for Bradley.

[Human Snorenado]

Oden was fucked from the get go- one of his legs was longer than the other.  That's not the sort of shit you "recover" from.

[DJ_Tet]

 A large part of it was due to him being drafter higher than Jason Williams, the best college player and seemingly certain to become a superstar.

Although I still think J-Will would have gotten it eventually, his rookie year was pretty much a bust (sans a late triple double.)  I thought he would come in and dominate/contribute heavily immediately but it didn't happen. 

[Smooth Groove]

Yeah, but whether he would be a 'superstar' is beside the point. At the time, the only question was: will he be better than Oden?

We've seen time and time again how teams over-value the center position just because it's hard to fill, which no doubt keeps GMs up late at nights. If there hadn't been a strong candidate at the center position, Durant would have been locked into the number 1 spot in that draft months in advance, with no argument from anyone...and the 'superstar' hype would have risen accordingly.

It wasn't just due to positioning.  At the combine, Oden outperformed Durant by significant margins in almost every category.  To PD's credit, I remember telling him that and he still said Durant would become the better player. 

Also remember you saying that Oden would likely make a 100% recovery

Did I really?   

I really like the character of Oden.  Roy too.  There aren't enough players like them today.

Speaking of Portland, I hope Clips go after Nate Mcmillan if they fail to go beyond round 1.   

[Cormacaroni]

Yeah, but whether he would be a 'superstar' is beside the point. At the time, the only question was: will he be better than Oden?

We've seen time and time again how teams over-value the center position just because it's hard to fill, which no doubt keeps GMs up late at nights. If there hadn't been a strong candidate at the center position, Durant would have been locked into the number 1 spot in that draft months in advance, with no argument from anyone...and the 'superstar' hype would have risen accordingly.

It wasn't just due to positioning.  At the combine, Oden outperformed Durant by significant margins in almost every category.  To PD's credit, I remember telling him that and he still said Durant would become the better player. 

Combines? You think this stuff matters? Why isn't Jeff Green better than Durant then? Or Zo better than Fat Shaq or millions of other examples. Nate Robinson vs Chris Paul. Gerald Green vs Ray Allen

[Cormacaroni]

Yeah, but whether he would be a 'superstar' is beside the point. At the time, the only question was: will he be better than Oden?

We've seen time and time again how teams over-value the center position just because it's hard to fill, which no doubt keeps GMs up late at nights. If there hadn't been a strong candidate at the center position, Durant would have been locked into the number 1 spot in that draft months in advance, with no argument from anyone...and the 'superstar' hype would have risen accordingly.

It wasn't just due to positioning.  At the combine, Oden outperformed Durant by significant margins in almost every category.  To PD's credit, I remember telling him that and he still said Durant would become the better player. 

Also remember you saying that Oden would likely make a 100% recovery

Did I really?   

I really like the character of Oden.  Roy too.  There aren't enough players like them today.

Speaking of Portland, I hope Clips go after Nate Mcmillan if they fail to go beyond round 1.   

http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=12562.msg298892#msg298892

SOOOOO .... Any games on today?

[Smooth Groove]

Damn, how did you remember that?   

This forum has a crap search function.  I've go to be more careful in the future about what I say in our discussions. 

[Cormacaroni]

I'm sure I said a billion daft things about NBA as well - i'm not about to go digging TOO deeply in those archives

[DJ_Tet]

Hell, you just said Durant had one of the greatest college careers of all time 

[Cormacaroni]

statistically, i believe he did

I mean, obviously he was too good to STAY in college so he's not going to compare to the 4yr guys in days of yore but he set a bunch of records, did he not?

[Cormacaroni]

I of course was (as now) heavily influenced by the Professor, who said:

And based on the chart, let's close with some important conclusions heading into Thursday's big shindig:

Kevin Durant is the best talent to come out of the college ranks in the last half decade. As we've learned, this doesn't necessarily mean he'll become the best player. But his 870.7 score blows the previous best -- Carmelo Anthony's 781.3 in 2003 -- right out of the water. If there's one thing that makes me reconsider the Oden versus Durant question after I thought it had been
settled, this is it. I mean, how can you pass on this guy when his numbers are this overwhelming?

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=ProRater

[T234]

Yeah, just because somebody follows the NBA, does NOT make them qualified to talk college ball.

Leave the college ball talk to Blue-bloods (different shades though ) like me and Tet.

Cormac, stats don't matter in college ball at all. Greatness is determined by titles. Period. If you didn't win a championship, then your college career was NOT great.




That being said, EIGHTH BANNER BITCHES

[Human Snorenado]

This is why I find college sports to be a laughable endeavor.  Also, talking with Kentucky fans around this time of year is an exercise in futility.

[T234]

QUIT YER SQUAWKIN OLD MAN

EIGHTH BANNER

[Cormacaroni]

Bet those banners are a great consolation to them as they watch Durant pick up scoring titles/MVP/ Finals MVPs/HoF awards by the bucket

[Phoenix Dark]

Kentucky has a few NBA bodies on their team. dem academic standards

Durant was great in college come. Dude dominated a good conference, and while Texas underperformed in the NCAA tournament it wasn't Durant's fault.

[Cormacaroni]

I obviously don't have a horse in this race, but it seems possible at least in theory for a statement like 'Durant had a great college career AND Kentucky is a great college team' to be endorsable by a wide range of folks

[Phoenix Dark]

Yup. I'd be shocked if Kentucky doesn't get to the finals. They rolled earlier today

And Durant, from the little NBA ball I've watched this year, looks amazing. Is he an early fave for MVP?

[Cormacaroni]

Yup. I'd be shocked if Kentucky doesn't get to the finals. They rolled earlier today

And Durant, from the little NBA ball I've watched this year, looks amazing. Is he an early fave for MVP?

Only if someone shoots LeBron or something. Durant IS amazing but statistically (i know, i know) LeBron is on track to beat the best years of Jordan and Wilt and everybody else. Plus, the Heat's record is not going to hurt him...it sounds like he is a lock, from what the EPSN columnists etc are saying anyway.  Nobody is really championing Durant as the MVP, only saying that he deserves votes (i.e. I'M not voting for him but somebody should!)

[T234]

Bet those banners are a great consolation to them as they watch Durant pick up scoring titles/MVP/ Finals MVPs/HoF awards by the bucket

   
We're talking about what a player does in his COLLEGIATE uniform, not what they do as a pro. To say that Durant had one of the greatest college careers EVER is talking jive. He was excellent and was as lethal a scorer as they come in the college game, that much is for certain.

Kentucky has a few NBA bodies on their team. dem academic standards

Durant was great in college come. Dude dominated a good conference, and while Texas underperformed in the NCAA tournament it wasn't Durant's fault.

WTF. Kansas beat them both times for both the reg-season conference title AND the Big XII conference tournament title. Big XII South was hot garbage that year too. 

[Phoenix Dark]

I didn't say Texas dominated the conference, I said Durant dominated the conference. He arguably had a better season than Melo did at 'Cuse. Just because he didn't win a title like Melo doesn't mean he didn't dominate as well..

[DJ_Tet]

Durant was great in college but your 'college career' is determined by what you do in March, fair or not.

He went out in the round of 32, although he played better than I remembered in that tournament with 57 total points.

He had a great year in CBB, his career in CBB is not and will not be remembered.  Except by Hollinger apparently.


Fair or not, disagree or not, Carmelo is a legend in CBB.  Durant is not.  He had a better CBB career than Kobe or LeBron, and better than Luol Deng, but you can't say he had one of the all time greatest CBB careers.  One year, as fantastic as it was, doesn't make a career unless you win more than 1 tournament game.  Hell his team lost 10 games that year. 


Also, Durant played with two other NBA players on that team, DJ Augustin and Damion James.  Melo played with Hakeem Warrick, but again, they won more than one tournament game.

[Cormacaroni]

I still don't care but that is an absurd definition by which Dirk Nowitzki would have been shit up 'til a year ago, before turning into a Hall of Famer

[DJ_Tet]

Doesn't really matter about Dirk, by any stretch Durant did not have one of the 'greatest CBB careers of all time.'  That's all I was responding to, not turning it into a discussion about CBB metrics vs NBA metrics.  No one said Durant was shit either.

Melo wasn't a legend because of his stats, it's because as a freshman he took a team that had never won a title, to a title.  That's never been done before that I can remember.  That's why he's a legend.

Maybe Kobe could have done it, maybe LeBron could have done it, but Melo did it.  Durant went out in the second round surrounded by more talent.