Author Topic: The NBA thread (Read 1519582 times)

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #8280 on:** February 12, 2013, 08:27:58 PM »

so yeah, it's a conversation. Nobody is exactly going out on a limb but it is a conversation. Man, I hope KD is reading all this and just going Super Saiyan

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #8281 on:** February 12, 2013, 08:29:57 PM »

Dude'll have his time. It's coming. Durant dropping 50 the other week is...well, amazing.

I love watching Durant. Not as strong or as aggressive as Lebron obviously, but his shots are so pretty. Lebron's jumpers almost always look like line-drives to me

benjipwns · « **Reply #8282 on:** February 12, 2013, 08:34:28 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on February 12, 2013, 08:24:56 PM

Harden is also getting 5.7 assists and 26pts a game while shooting from distance at a reasonable clip so we can probably dispense with the Maggette comparisons

The only regard in which I compared him to Maggette was in the mention of Harden's low turnover rate when driving, which you said is due to his getting fouled. Since Maggette's overall turnover rate was not worse than Harden's and he drew fouls at an even better overall rate over a multiple-year span (probably the best of perimeter players, and one of the best overall, in modern history) I was just wondering aloud if he might have posted a similar minuscule turnover rate when driving. He is one of the few players, along with possibly Wade and LeBron pre-teaming up, who I could see having that "perfect storm" of significant number forays to the basket + high foul drawing + extra-strength for his position.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #8283 on:** February 12, 2013, 08:38:46 PM »

yeah i know but he's also a hopeless one-dimensional ball hog which Harden is absolutely not. Maggette lacks Harden's handle, and left-handedness too, so I'm pretty confident his turnovers would be a lot higher

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #8284 on:** February 12, 2013, 08:40:55 PM »

Harden's major skill in that situation is being able to keep his dribble alive in traffic even with the ball at arm's length in front of him, which he does to invite a swipe and draw a foul. He is pretty strong and can take contact but not to the extent Maggette or LeBron can. He also lacks elite speed but again makes up for it with the crazy lefty handle that seems to let him line-drive at the rim at will.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #8285 on:** February 12, 2013, 08:45:58 PM »

only posting 'cause League Pass doesn't seem to have any games actually showing today FML

Bacchus7 · « **Reply #8286 on:** February 12, 2013, 08:49:52 PM »

ITT: It takes a dick to rape someone, not a douche.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #8287 on:** February 12, 2013, 09:03:06 PM »

Quote from: Bacchus7 on February 12, 2013, 08:49:52 PM

ITT: It takes a dick to rape someone, not a douche.

A douche is someone who tea-bags a bro while he's sleeping. Learn the diff, yo.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #8288 on:** February 12, 2013, 09:56:23 PM »

Jesus, Lebron is going 11 of 15 tonight.

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #8289 on:** February 12, 2013, 09:57:05 PM »

goddamn

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #8290 on:** February 12, 2013, 10:16:42 PM »

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/kevin-durant-sometimes-doesn-t-want-chuck-low-220357263--nba.html

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #8291 on:** February 12, 2013, 10:21:08 PM »

it's pretty obvious but i think the coach should just put in D-Leagues for those heaves. It's a low percentage but you get 2-4 of them per game, more with OT. And they're fun!

Henry Abbott did a Hoop Idea on how to fix it I think...probably all you have to do is just not record that as a shot attempt unless it goes in

Mandark · « **Reply #8292 on:** February 12, 2013, 10:24:57 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on February 12, 2013, 07:39:45 PM

Yeah, drawing a foul counting as a shot is one of the big areas for improvement. Not to beat the drum unduly but at one point in that Clips game, the announcers mentioned that LeBron had hit 10 of 11 shots while replaying the one he 'missed' - he got clubbed by 3 guys 3ft from the rim and shot FTs. Steve Novak's TS% OTOH doesn't take that hit because he is never within 15 feet of the basket

Pretty sure missed shots don't show up as FGA's if you're fouled.

I remember reading Hollinger's Pro Basketball Forecast (basically the team and player previews he'd do for Insider, in book form before ESPN picked him up) and instead of TS% the stat was listed as PPA for Points Per Attempt or something like that. They used to put an underrated/breakout candidate player on the cover, so it'd be the one NBA season preview publication that was enticing you to buy with Michael Redd or Elton Brand rather than Kobe or AI.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #8293 on:** February 12, 2013, 10:31:33 PM »

Then I guess the Clippers announcers fucked up. They made a big deal out of it - 'Here's the one he 'missed'!'

benjipwns · « **Reply #8294 on:** February 12, 2013, 10:42:03 PM »

I have all four of those, the covers are: Andre Miller (Cavs), Michael Redd (Bucks), Elton Brand (Clippers) though he is posting up Yao, and it's only the last one with Amare on it that has any kind of big name player. (And even that was just after the first Nash Suns season.) Hollinger was the one in charge of picking the cover players.

I think every single one has a complaint about Elton Brand being snubbed from the All-Star Roster.

He had PSA the first two years, but he changed to TS% (which is the same formula just divided by two) because the stats community was trying to standardize a lot of stuff*, it's also why he did per 40 minutes (I believe he used to do per 48 on his site, though not in the books) though they eventually changed to per 36. His Assist Rate is the one thing he wouldn't change, so it didn't match the B-R one. I think everyone eventually agreed to call his Rate and the other one %.

*I don't know if it's been rescued from the cache/wayback machine but there was a long argument over PSA style vs. TS% because "making it look like a percentage isn't accurate descriptively" vs. "it'll help people who know FG% understand it."

EDIT: Little side note about TS%/PSA/eFG%, it can be traced back in one respect to Rick Barry. He thought it unfair that big men had higher FG%'s despite the fact that many of his baskets were worth three points, and plus the fact he made all his free throws. So he started adding the extra point (or half FGM) for his threes at least.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #8295 on:** February 13, 2013, 12:08:50 AM »

keep saying it, someone will eventually agree with you i guess

benjipwns · « **Reply #8296 on:** February 13, 2013, 12:49:51 AM »

Quote

Under orders from LeBron, the Heat now takes the court every pregame to Drake's "Started From the Bottom."

douche alert

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #8297 on:** February 13, 2013, 01:11:59 AM »

Quote from: benjipwns on February 13, 2013, 12:49:51 AM

Quote
Under orders from LeBron, the Heat now takes the court every pregame to Drake's "Started From the Bottom."
douche alert

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #8298 on:** February 13, 2013, 01:44:30 PM »

Side note I guess but Nerlens Noel, who was probably going to be either the top NBA draft pick or within the top 3, had a pretty horrible knee injury last night

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

No word from the MRI yet but I can't help but think he'll definitely be out for the season, and may decide to go back to school now.

Steve Contra · « **Reply #8299 on:** February 13, 2013, 01:48:33 PM »

This is why we need to do away with college ball for the best players. Why the fuck should that guy risk millions of dollars so old white don't tut-tut about him going to college?

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #8300 on:** February 13, 2013, 02:00:47 PM »

Confirmed: torn ACL, out for season. Wow

Steve Contra · « **Reply #8301 on:** February 13, 2013, 02:05:58 PM »

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

Mandark · « **Reply #8302 on:** February 13, 2013, 02:10:19 PM »

Quote from: Steve Contra on February 13, 2013, 01:48:33 PM

This is why we need to do away with college ball for the best players. Why the fuck should that guy risk millions of dollars so old white don't tut-tut about him going to college?

That's one of the few things in sports that legit rustles my jimmies.

Few years ago a Maryland player was considering leaving before his senior year, and a 50ish guy I know was ranting about it. He's a UMD alum so of course he wanted the player to stay. But instead of "man, it would suck if he leaves" he was going off on how stupid the kid would be to go pro and how he obviously didn't understand the benefits of college coaching, etc. Just the most blithe, entitled bullshit. Gah.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #8303 on:** February 13, 2013, 02:11:45 PM »

Kobe wouldn't be a dick if he went to Duke as planned. He'd just be another cornball brother

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #8304 on:** February 13, 2013, 02:33:36 PM »

Quote from: Mandark on February 13, 2013, 02:10:19 PM

Quote from: Steve Contra on February 13, 2013, 01:48:33 PM
This is why we need to do away with college ball for the best players. Why the fuck should that guy risk millions of dollars so old white don't tut-tut about him going to college?

That's one of the few things in sports that legit rustles my jimmies.

Few years ago a Maryland player was considering leaving before his senior year, and a 50ish guy I know was ranting about it. He's a UMD alum so of course he wanted the player to stay. But instead of "man, it would suck if he leaves" he was going off on how stupid the kid would be to go pro and how he obviously didn't understand the benefits of college coaching, etc. Just the most blithe, entitled bullshit. Gah.

It's all about the interests of the NBA (don't have to pay to develop 18 year-olds), the NCAA (don't want to miss out on the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$), and NCAA fans (don't want to miss out on the best players)

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #8305 on:** February 13, 2013, 02:57:21 PM »

I don't have the ESPN Insider pass but Chad Ford is saying he's talked to multiple NBA execs who say they'd still take him #1 this year.

Mr. Gundam · « **Reply #8306 on:** February 13, 2013, 03:04:09 PM »

Kevin Johnson's weekly press conference of nothing is hilarious. If you have something, say it. Stop with this "we got walez yo" weekly stuff, it just makes it appear as if you're delaying the inevitable.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #8307 on:** February 13, 2013, 05:48:37 PM »

Quote from: Steve Contra on February 13, 2013, 01:48:33 PM

This is why we need to do away with college ball for the best players. Why the fuck should that guy risk millions of dollars so old white don't tut-tut about him going to college?

But how do we determine who can bypass college and who can't? There are some cases like LeBron, who clearly was NBA ready physically; at the same time, Kwame Brown was NBA ready physically too, but in hindsight it's clear he would have benefited from a year in college. For instance this year, Shabazz Muhammad was probably ready for the NBA last year but there are tons of worse guys with similar builds and similar high school success who could make the same argument so the question becomes how do you separate the real deals from the guys who need to go to college. Perhaps Stern should create some type of Commission Of Basketball Lords who will separate the men from the boys. Just ban Dickie V and Skip Bayless from membership.

I was talking to my uncle about this last month. Jabari Parker is going to Duke next year, but is arguably the best high school player since LeBron. Should he be allowed to enter the NBA if he wanted? I'm not sure.

Then on the football side of things you have Jadeveon Clowney who could start on half the NFL teams right now, but has to go back to South Carolina for one more year - after seeing his teammate Marcus Lattimore's NFL career likely ended before it began due to a freak knee injury. Clowney is like LeBron in the sense that everyone recognizes he can go pro right now, regardless of rules, but those types of no question talents are rather rare.

Steve Contra · « **Reply #8308 on:** February 13, 2013, 05:54:29 PM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2013, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Steve Contra on February 13, 2013, 01:48:33 PM
This is why we need to do away with college ball for the best players. Why the fuck should that guy risk millions of dollars so old white don't tut-tut about him going to college?

I was talking to my uncle about this last month. Jabari Parker is going to Duke next year, but is arguably the best high school player since LeBron. Should he be allowed to enter the NBA if he wanted? I'm not sure.

Let the NBA teams decide if someone is ready or not. They don't have to select someone if they don't have to, and a lot of folks will be going to college regardless.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #8309 on:** February 13, 2013, 06:01:31 PM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2013, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Steve Contra on February 13, 2013, 01:48:33 PM
This is why we need to do away with college ball for the best players. Why the fuck should that guy risk millions of dollars so old white don't tut-tut about him going to college?

But how do we determine who can bypass college and who can't? There are some cases like LeBron, who clearly was NBA ready physically; at the same time, Kwame Brown was NBA ready physically too, but in hindsight it's clear he would have benefited from a year in college. For instance this year, Shabazz Muhammad was probably ready for the NBA last year but there are tons of worse guys with similar builds and similar high school success who could make the same argument so the question becomes how do you separate the real deals from the guys who need to go to college. Perhaps Stern should create some type of Commission Of Basketball Lords who will separate the men from the boys. Just ban Dickie V and Skip Bayless from membership.

I was talking to my uncle about this last month. Jabari Parker is going to Duke next year, but is arguably the best high school player since LeBron. Should he be allowed to enter the NBA if he wanted? I'm not sure.

Then on the football side of things you have Jadeveon Clowney who could start on half the NFL teams right now, but has to go back to South Carolina for one more year - after seeing his teammate Marcus Lattimore's NFL career likely ended before it began due to a freak knee injury. Clowney is like LeBron in the sense that everyone recognizes he can go pro right now, regardless of rules, but those types of no question talents are rather rare.

Who appointed the NBA the social welfare arbiters of society. If they are serious about the whole thing then actually develop a proper minor league system that can tutor and help these people to adapt to being an nba professional. Otherwise they are just trying to have it both ways. I hate the double standard here of better do something special with these ghetto kids in basketball that often doesn't exist in other sports. All young people need mentoring in these money situations. And I hate the double standard of the NBA pretending it gives a damn. If it actually gives a damn, then don't pawn it off on college, which is a joke that most of these kids are attending anyway when they could never actually get in, in any normal situation. It's not immoral for a kid to not go to college and its not especially moral for a kid to get a year of college as if that is suddenly preparing them for life.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #8310 on:** February 13, 2013, 06:09:53 PM »

Very good point Stoney. I can understand why the NBA would prefer not to have the league crowded another crop of young, inexperienced HS players who were over-hyped and became expensive busts (anyone remember Sebastian Telfair?). But at the same time some guys can obviously play and deserve a shot, plus it's not like the NBA cares whether these guys end up bums or not. It would certainly be interesting if HS players could decide not to go to college and instead go directly to a developmental league where their progress could be measured. Although I am incredibly biased as a college basketball fan, and think college would be the better option for most players.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #8311 on:** February 13, 2013, 06:18:01 PM »

It's frustrating to me that this issue has been going on my entire life and every few years people start talking about it again but no one is willing to actually say the truth so the problem remains the same until its brought up again a few years down the road.

It's a broken system and no one is willing to do anything to try to fix it in a realistic and meaningful way. All they do is adjust the minimum number of college years a player needs every few years as if that's going to solve the whole mess.

benjipwns · « **Reply #8312 on:** February 13, 2013, 06:21:56 PM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2013, 06:09:53 PM

It would certainly be interesting if HS players could decide not to go to college and instead go directly to a developmental league where their progress could be measured.

They can. Latavious Williams played a year in the D-League instead of college. Brandon Jennings and Jeremy Tyler played overseas instead.

NCAA is just a bigger stage to be seen and raise your draft stock. (Williams didn't have the scores for college, Tyler dropped out of high school. Don't remember if Jennings could have gone, he went to Europe for the money in any case.)

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #8313 on:** February 13, 2013, 06:27:05 PM »

Given the choice between a decent college and the D-League, I'd take the college every time based on money under the table, visibility and better opportunities for sex and tbh, the sex would be the #1 thing. 1 year of education may be a hassle but you've been in education all your life to that point so it probably doesn't sound bad.

I agree that from an educational standpoint, it's pointless to go to college if you don't commit to getting a degree. Otherwise just go to the library

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #8314 on:** February 13, 2013, 06:30:50 PM »

College is the best choice imo, and the best place to prove you're mentally ready for the NBA.

The one-and-done rule does a lot of harm to the NCAA by allowing programs to continually reel in great recruit classes, win, then quickly rebuild after the previous class jumps to the NBA. It invites corruption and blatant rule breaking in terms of tampering, illegal contact with recruits, gifts, etc. And the NCAA turns a blind eye depending on the stature of the coaches and programs involved. Kentucky is clearly cheating and no one gives a shit. And of course when they finally get busted, John Calipari will jump to the NBA or another college team and the kids will lose a year of eligibility after they transfer. So no one truly gets punished but the players, most of whom didn't do anything wrong.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #8315 on:** February 13, 2013, 06:31:55 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on February 13, 2013, 06:27:05 PM

Given the choice between a decent college and the D-League, I'd take the college every time based on money under the table, visibility and better opportunities for sex and tbh, the sex would be the #1 thing. 1 year of education may be a hassle but you've been in education all your life to that point so it probably doesn't sound bad.

I agree that from an educational standpoint, it's pointless to go to college if you don't commit to getting a degree. Otherwise just go to the library

I mostly agree. But I think that's mainly because of how the nba treats the d-league currently. I don't really understand why the NBA does that. The D-League could actually be a real thing if the NBA put some money and effort behind it. It makes more sense to put effort in a D-League than the WNBA for instance (I have nothing against the WNBA. I think its actually admirable in most ways)

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #8316 on:** February 13, 2013, 06:33:21 PM »

Also, the 'need to mentor the kids before the get paid' line is ridiculous - what about the ones who get the mentoring (of dubious value anyway of course) but don't get paid?

All it is is an extra layer of sorting for most kids. There are a lot less NCAA teams than there are high school teams so it simplifies scouting a lot. It helps out late bloomers and holds back the special talents. But mostly it helps the NCAA and the coaches and the colleges. For the kids who have no shot at the NBA, well, they have a shot at a college degree and a lot of fun. I don't see why letting everyone declare eligibility would mean they couldn't keep getting an education anyway. Just let them continue their degree if not drafted fffs

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #8317 on:** February 13, 2013, 06:35:05 PM »

I'm tired reading about this

more lebron talk plz

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #8318 on:** February 13, 2013, 06:45:14 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on February 13, 2013, 06:33:21 PM

Also, the 'need to mentor the kids before the get paid' line is ridiculous - what about the ones who get the mentoring (of dubious value anyway of course) but don't get paid?

All it is is an extra layer of sorting for most kids. There are a lot less NCAA teams than there are high school teams so it simplifies scouting a lot. It helps out late bloomers and holds back the special talents. But mostly it helps the NCAA and the coaches and the colleges. For the kids who have no shot at the NBA, well, they have a shot at a college degree and a lot of fun. I don't see why letting everyone declare eligibility would mean they couldn't keep getting an education anyway. Just let them continue their degree if not drafted fffs

A lot of them only get into college due to scholarships, which they lose upon leaving the school for the draft. Schools have a limited number of sports scholarships, most can't give them back to someone who fucked up and didn't get drafted. IMO the fix would be to make the NCAA allow those students to re-enter college and be eligible for scholarships at a different university the next school year/semester.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #8319 on:** February 13, 2013, 07:30:46 PM »

Quote

NBA has suspended Orlando's Hedo Turkoglu for 20 games, for violating drug policy. Turkoglu tested positive for methenolone, league says.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metenolone

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #8320 on:** February 13, 2013, 07:50:37 PM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2013, 06:45:14 PM

Quote from: Cormacaroni on February 13, 2013, 06:33:21 PM
Also, the 'need to mentor the kids before the get paid' line is ridiculous - what about the ones who get the mentoring (of dubious value anyway of course) but don't get paid?

All it is is an extra layer of sorting for most kids. There are a lot less NCAA teams than there are high school teams so it simplifies scouting a lot. It helps out late bloomers and holds back the special talents. But mostly it helps the NCAA and the coaches and the colleges. For the kids who have no shot at the NBA, well, they have a shot at a college degree and a lot of fun. I don't see why letting everyone declare eligibility would mean they couldn't keep getting an education anyway. Just let them continue their degree if not drafted fffs

A lot of them only get into college due to scholarships, which they lose upon leaving the school for the draft. Schools have a limited number of sports scholarships, most can't give them back to someone who fucked up and didn't get drafted. IMO the fix would be to make the NCAA allow those students to re-enter college and be eligible for scholarships at a different university the next school year/semester.

That is only a problem because of the NCAA's own rules, which are self-serving. Your fix is basically the same as mine - have draft eligibility be utterly separate from their college status. If they get drafted, they can go or stay as they please. If not, they can continue the education they were promised (whether via sports scholarship or not). The current system grossly limits their potential.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #8321 on:** February 13, 2013, 07:59:23 PM »

Re: Double Standard.

I think my post from a few hours ago goes to, at least partially, the causes of the double standard (or different standard). The paternalistic justifications are nonsense, so it's reasonable to question the motives of those who advance them. IMHO, The NBA and NFL are motivated by their inability and to create developmental leagues of any quality without serious effort (I should have wrote "laziness"). The media and fans are motivated by their interest in NCAA basketball and football and their general lack of interest in NCAA baseball and hockey.

Baseball and hockey have extensive minor-league systems with long histories. MLB's is well known, so I won't get into that.

(To develop players, the NHL uses the AHL and the ECHL. Before players are drafted, most, even some players from the US, have already played in leagues unconnected to educational institutions. In Canada [there are teams in the US], the best players in their late teens [some as young as 15] play in the CHL, divided into SIXTY teams playing in three different leagues. The OHL, for example, was formed from the Ontario Hockey Association, a league founded in 1890. The first teams of the league could actually compete for the Stanley Cup. Although these organizations were not formed by the NHL [and couldn't be formed by the NHL as they predate it], NHL clubs still utilize them. Though some of these CHL teams rake in the cash the players get nothing except a small stipend [$25-50 a week] and--wait for it--a scholarship. The CHL continues to be utilized even when an NHL team drafts a player. I'm not even going to go into Euro leagues)*

Of course, this is all very circular: these leagues develop young players outside of college because they have the infrastructure, either directly or indirectly (see the CHL). Well--then--the NBA or NFL should build the infrastructure, and then they can develop the players themselves. Of course, the NCAA already does a decent job--the teams are well coached, the games are important and pressure-pact. Are the coaches in the D-league better than the coaches in the NCAA? (The CHL, mentioned in the parenthetical paragraph and now this parenthetical sentence, have teams owned, run, and coached by former NHL players [Roy does, or did, all three at the same time) and provide better development than the NCAA [Seth Jones, an American phenom expected to go first or second in the draft, plays in the CHL, though for an American team])

This is my explanation for the different standards by the leagues. Why the double standard by the media and by the general public? They like and follow NCAA basketball and NCAA football, and want the best athletes in those sports to go to the NCAA. They don't give a shit, for the most part (NCAA hockey does well in certain North-Eastern markets), about college baseball or hockey. Since they don't care about those collegiate sports, they care or notice that these athletes don't go to college. If a tree fails to go to college in a forest and no one is around to something something.

Addendum: All hockey-related content is in parenthesis, so you don't have to read it. This heads-up probably should be moved to the beginning of the post.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #8322 on:** February 13, 2013, 08:08:33 PM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on February 13, 2013, 07:50:37 PM

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2013, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: Cormacaroni on February 13, 2013, 06:33:21 PM
Also, the 'need to mentor the kids before the get paid' line is ridiculous - what about the ones who get the mentoring (of dubious value anyway of course) but don't get paid?

All it is is an extra layer of sorting for most kids. There are a lot less NCAA teams than there are high school teams so it simplifies scouting a lot. It helps out late bloomers and holds back the special talents. But mostly it helps the NCAA and the coaches and the colleges. For the kids who have no shot at the NBA, well, they have a shot at a college degree and a lot of fun. I don't see why letting everyone declare eligibility would mean they couldn't keep getting an education anyway. Just let them continue their degree if not drafted fffs

A lot of them only get into college due to scholarships, which they lose upon leaving the school for the draft. Schools have a limited number of sports scholarships, most can't give them back to someone who fucked up and didn't get drafted. IMO the fix would be to make the NCAA allow those students to re-enter college and be eligible for scholarships at a different university the next school year/semester.

That is only a problem because of the NCAA's own rules, which are self-serving. Your fix is basically the same as mine - have draft eligibility be utterly separate from their college status. If they get drafted, they can go or stay as they please. If not, they can continue the education they were promised (whether via sports scholarship or not). The current system grossly limits their potential.

This is partially caused by the leagues themselves as the NBA and NFL requires teens to DECLARE for the draft. The NHL has no such requirement, so a player drafted by an NHL club can still go to the NCAA--he didn't actually do anything.

That being said, I endorse your suggestion and it would basically parallel the relationship between the CHL and NHL. The CHL allows a player drafted by an NHL club to return (it's obviously in the teams' best interests).

edit: since players don't have to declare for the nhl draft, this happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taro_Tsujimoto

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #8323 on:** February 13, 2013, 08:27:29 PM »

I'd argue the NCAA is already a development league for the NFL and it works very well. The high school football machine breeds talent within states and refills college ptograms that often get guys ready for specific pro roles; think Iowa for offensive linemen, Michigan/Ohio State for defensive lines, the south for everything else.

Whereas a lot of great basketball programs are successful with players who aren't NBA talent (Duke busts come to mind), or focus on a play style that doesn't translate well. A development league would definitely help a lot of them get more used to the NBA game.

etiolate · « **Reply #8324 on:** February 13, 2013, 10:39:28 PM »

Quote from: Mr. Gundam on February 13, 2013, 03:04:09 PM

Kevin Johnson's weekly press conference of nothing is hilarious. If you have something, say it. Stop with this "we got walez yo" weekly stuff, it just makes it appear as if you're delaying the inevitable.

Yeah. it's become so meaningless. At first, I understood the point. I understand keeping up the message, but the press conferences have become a joke. I think they were hoping to get the national media to pay attention, but ESPN doesn't want to fuck with upsetting the NBA and mostly ignores Sacramento. I still think they can come forward with Burkle and Mastrov, but stop the weekly Whale watch please. Just give us a date in which you'll be presenting to the public and hte NBA your offer to buy the team and then let us know of anything knew.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #8325 on:** February 13, 2013, 11:22:11 PM »

Is Kevin Johnson a good mayor?

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #8326 on:** February 13, 2013, 11:24:38 PM »

just count the rings

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #8327 on:** February 13, 2013, 11:25:36 PM »

holy shit he's married to Michelle Rhee, how did I not know this

etiolate · « **Reply #8328 on:** February 14, 2013, 12:12:51 AM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2013, 11:22:11 PM

Is Kevin Johnson a good mayor?

Well what he's done to keep the Kings here has been great. The Kings would have been gone by now if not for him. (And Sterling and Buss doing all they can to block a third LA team.) Outside of that, I don't really know.

Mandark · « **Reply #8329 on:** February 14, 2013, 12:16:43 AM »

Malek: Besides all the reasons you listed for why MLB and the NHL have more robust player development systems, there's good ol' path dependency. Football became a nationally popular sport on the collegiate level before the NFL got a lot of traction, and I'm fuzzy on the history but I think basketball was the same way. Baseball's the other way around, hence not having to deal with an already embedded college sports industry. Ditto soccer in Europe.

Really, if we were drawing up a system from scratch without any emotional attachments, would anyone suggest anything like the insanity of college athletics? "Young players are forced into amateur leagues where they're not allowed to get paid even though it's a multibillion dollar industry, except everyone breaks the rules and punishments are pretty random. But we do give them college scholarships to places that wouldn't have let them in anyway. Only we don't really hold them to the standards of the university they attend, and any college that even makes an effort to see them graduate gets praised to high heaven for doing what should be the bare minimum at an institution of higher learning."

Da fuq.

Quote from: Steve Contra on February 13, 2013, 05:54:29 PM

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2013, 05:48:37 PM
Quote from: Steve Contra on February 13, 2013, 01:48:33 PM
This is why we need to do away with college ball for the best players. Why the fuck should that guy risk millions of dollars so old white don't tut-tut about him going to college?

I was talking to my uncle about this last month. Jabari Parker is going to Duke next year, but is arguably the best high school player since LeBron. Should he be allowed to enter the NBA if he wanted? I'm not sure.

Let the NBA teams decide if someone is ready or not. They don't have to select someone if they don't have to, and a lot of folks will be going to college regardless.

Yes yes yes. We don't know which HS players can hack it, but we don't know which college players can hack it either. Teams scout, make their best decision based on limited information, and live with the results. We don't need a rule in place to stop Michael Jordan from drafting Kwame Brown just like we don't need a rule stopping him from drafting Adam Morrison.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Didn't mean to pick on MJ until I realized he was the man behind both my examples. Oh well, he's a terrible GM.

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Smooth Groove · « **Reply #8330 on:** February 14, 2013, 12:45:26 AM »

Clips laying the smackdown on the Rockets

Clips-Lakers should be fun tomorrow

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #8331 on:** February 14, 2013, 12:52:35 AM »

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8942055/los-angeles-lakers-kobe-bryant-response-homophoic-slur-twitter-welcome

Which brings us back to Bryant and his 140 characters Sunday.

And the fact that he said something. Unprompted and unprovoked, he said something.

One of the cardinal rules of marketing to a broad audience is to maintain a broad appeal. That means playing it safe, offending no one, watering it down.

People buy your shoes because you're a great basketball player, not because of your political beliefs.

For anyone to step out of that lane takes guts. For a superstar the magnitude of Kobe Bryant to do so is extraordinary.

Yo, Ramona, watching this vid takes far less time than writing yet another hagiographic piece on your idol,

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #8332 on:** February 14, 2013, 03:24:14 AM »

oh hi AWESOME-O

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/PerDiem-130213/nba-why-lebron-james-michael-jordan

Money quote:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes, James plays like an oversized point guard like Magic, but Magic averaged more than 20 points in just four of his 13 seasons in the NBA. James' 27.6 points per game average ranks third all time.

Moreover, if we really want to do James justice, we should compare him to his contemporaries. In this sense, he feels more like a freak Nash-Shaq hybrid. No one has ever combined physical dominance with technical mastery quite like James. To illustrate, there are only two players in the past 20 years to shoot at least 56 percent on at least 18 attempts per game. Their names: LeBron James and Shaquille O'Neal.

But then get this: Nash and Jose Calderon are the only two players this season who can match James in assists per game (6.9) and 3-point percentage (42 percent). Believe it or not, James has evolved into one of the top spot-up shooters in the league; his eye-popping 56.8 percent shooting on spot-ups ranks him first among 155 players with at least 90 attempts, according to SynergySports. Instead of comparing James to Jordan or Johnson, it's probably more accurate to say this edition of James is a freak composite of the greatest shooting point guard of all time (Nash) and the most physically overwhelming player the game has ever seen (Shaq).

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All Hail

ToxicAdam · « **Reply #8333 on:** February 14, 2013, 03:24:35 AM »

Kyrie played one of his worst games ever and the Cavs gave away the game to the Spurs. They outplayed them the whole game.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #8334 on:** February 14, 2013, 03:25:14 AM »

fuck, just started watching that one

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #8335 on:** February 14, 2013, 04:11:20 AM »

shiiiiiiit need to watch. How the fuck did Duncan and Parker let Cleveland get that close

I guess Duncon and Ginobli were a little rusty considering their break.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #8336 on:** February 14, 2013, 04:31:29 PM »

Heat at Thunder and Clippers versus Lakers on TNT tonight.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #8337 on:** February 14, 2013, 04:46:39 PM »

The Onion killin it as usual.

Quote

LeBron James Playing Flawless Basketball In Pathetic Bid For Nation's Approval

MIAMI—Shooting 56 percent from the field so far this season and completing an astounding 49 of his last 65 shots, LeBron James has recently taken his game to another level in a transparent and paltry attempt to win widespread admiration, sources confirmed Tuesday. “In typical fashion, LeBron is shamelessly trying to get everyone to like him,” said ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith, who mentioned that it was “pitiful” to see James pulling publicity stunts such as improving his rebounding skills and shooting more consistently than any basketball player in history. “It’s sad enough to see him scoring points at will, but when he’s also locking down on defense, making all his teammates look better, and generally improving every facet of his game, it just looks desperate.” Smith added that at least James had toned back his pathetic antics since last season, when the 9-time all star “practically begged” for praise by winning an NBA championship.

Quote

Kobe Bryant Holds Kobe-Bryant-Only Meeting To Discuss Lakers

LOS ANGELES—After a tumultuous and disappointing first half of their season, Kobe Bryant reportedly called a Kobe-Bryant-only meeting Thursday to air out the many issues still plaguing the Lakers. “There are 29 games to go and we’re still under .500, so everybody needs to step their game up right now,” Bryant reportedly said during the closed-door talks, which did not include coaches, upper management, or any of the other 13 players on the Lakers’ roster. “I’m sick of hearing excuses about shoulder injuries or trade speculation. We should be contending for the title, but I feel like I’m the only one out there who even gives a damn. And frankly, that’s pathetic.” Reached for comment, Bryant told reporters the meeting was “very positive,” as it was unanimously agreed that the 15-time All-Star should get more of the ball during games.

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #8338 on:** February 14, 2013, 06:03:37 PM »

Awesome games tonight. Must find good stream of heat thunder.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #8339 on:** February 14, 2013, 06:50:47 PM »

Yeah, his speed will be gone and all that will be left is his strength, height, shooting, passing and post game and he'll probably backslide to the kind of production he had as a teen when he had no shot and no idea what he was doing, i.e. dominating

News:

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