"A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics

[Ichirou]

I have that book too.

[Phoenix Dark]

[youtube=560,345]W4zwCMf8dsc[/youtube]

[The Fake Shemp]

"The gentleman is correct in sitting!"

Anthony Weiner is like the Northeastern version of Alan Grayson.

[Boogie]

[youtube=560,345]W4zwCMf8dsc[/youtube]

holy shit

[Dickie Dee]

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

Not gonna lie, I did tug one out over this.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Conservative talk radio already discussed this issue to death yesterday

In fact, Sean Hannity's radio show had them both come on the air...together.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I dont mean to burst the bubble, but the top 15% pay something like 60-70% of all taxes. Should it be higher?

we had it best when our marginal tax rate was at its highest

Ding ding ding!

The fact that less people are putting money into the system is indicative that the distribution of wealth is fucked up, simply because more and more people are slipping into lesser tax brackets - not evil government conspiracy! And the belief that the top earners are faithful on their taxes.

I agree, the US is barely functional these days.  Retardlicans have successfully made it so any type of altruistic legislation gets cobbled up and bungled so it barely helps anyone except the filling of coffers of corporations.

[The Fake Shemp]

The 9/11 compensation bill is pretty much a new low for Republicans.

[Phoenix Dark]

To be fair, dems brought it to the floor requiring a 2/3s majority vote, probably so they could make attack ads for November.

It's going back to the floor next week requiring a simple majority

[The Fake Shemp]

Democrats brought it to the floor requiring a two-thirds vote because Republicans were preparing to add an amendment that would not give compensation to any first responders who were illegal immigrants at Ground Zero, and the Democrats wanted to avoid the political ridiculousness and possible backlash of that situation.

Democrats called the Republicans on it, the Republicans stood firm. Totally fucking despicable.

[Phoenix Dark]

holy shit, for real?

[The Fake Shemp]

A key backer of the bill, U.S. Rep. Peter King, a Long Island Republican, accused Democrats of staging a "charade."

King said Democrats were "petrified" about casting votes as the fall elections near on controversial amendments, possibly including one that could ban the bill from covering illegal immigrants who were sickened by trade center dust.

... the Republicans were licking their chops to load the bill with all kinds of poison pills, so they could run attack ads. Democrats tried to circumvent this by holding the two-thirds vote, and the Republicans responded in kind by knocking it down.

The New York Times also has a pretty good breakdown. Needless to say, what a bunch of bullcrap. People should be ashamed.

[Mandark]

Not sure which is worse, the utterly cynical use of poison-pill amendments (that "amended Springfield-slash-pervert bill" bit from the Simpsons is quickly becoming the most accurate depiction of our government on TV) or the choice of illegal immigrants as whipping boys.

For the last few years it seems like every piece of legislation has been accompanied by a bunch of people screaming that it'll be a huge giveaway of our hard-earned money to dirty illegals, and that it needs to be properly scoured so the immigrants don't see a dime.

It plays well because so many people think that immigrants have a huge, parasitic effect on the economy, in spite of the evidence.  Now Heaven forfend that I or anyone else Play The Race Card and suggest that this is rooted in ethnic anxieties and the tribalism and ignorance they engender, but that belief sure as fuck isn't borne out of any sense of rational numeracy.

[The Fake Shemp]

We can't have a real discussion about illegal immigration for more than a few seconds before it spirals into ManaByte talking points and ridiculous, pie-in-the-sky free borders nonsense. It's like, there's no middle ground in political debate anymore.

I have almost become completely exhausted over our political system and our country in general. If it wasn't for the fact that I am really trying to break into the moving pictures business, chalk me up as another potential defector to a country that's not batshit insane - just somewhat insane.

Maybe I'll go to Cannes with my pals next year, and claim political asylum.

[Oblivion]

The 9/11 compensation bill is pretty much a new low for Republicans.

I dunno. It's definitely a close second to not allowing raped women to take their rapist to court.

[Phoenix Dark]

The 9/11 compensation bill is pretty much a new low for Republicans.

I dunno. It's definitely a close second to not allowing raped women to take their rapist to court.

It depends, Mandark. Was the woman an illegal alien?

[Cheebs]

"Free stuff for everyone." Yup thats a completely sustainable long term plan. Good jon.

France, England, Canada are not sustainable?

 

Yeah, do a little research...

United Kingdom, whatever. I used to live there for a while so I give myself a free pass.

The 9/11 compensation bill is pretty much a new low for Republicans.

I dunno. It's definitely a close second to not allowing raped women to take their rapist to court.

It depends, Mandark. Was the woman an illegal alien?

I am still in shock how little controversy that caused.

[Boogie]

United Kingdom, whatever. I used to live there for a while so I give myself a free pass.

I would imagine his chuckling has less to do with properly naming the state than it does the UK's itty bitty budget crisis.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/may/05/uk-budget-deficit-worse-than-greece

[Mandark]

The 9/11 compensation bill is pretty much a new low for Republicans.

I dunno. It's definitely a close second to not allowing raped women to take their rapist to court.

It depends, Mandark. Was the woman an illegal alien?

 

[The Fake Shemp]

All you all look the same.

[Phoenix Dark]

 

The lack of an avatar sold me. But then again, the lack of an underlined hyperlink should have tipped me off

[Mandark]

Speaking of dumb identity politics, the Anti-Defamation League has stated its opposition to the ground zero Muslim community center.

Abe Foxman is no mensch.

[Oblivion]

Shit, I just noticed that Mandark doesn't have an avatar either.

What the hell, hippy?

[The Fake Shemp]

Speaking of dumb identity politics, the Anti-Defamation League has stated its opposition to the ground zero Muslim community center.

Abe Foxman is no mensch.

I read that yesterday, and nearly blew a gasket. Doesn't surprise me; it's the same argument my grandparents had when I visited them a month ago. It's such a damn shame.

[Phoenix Dark]

Good to know religious freedoms have parameters. Would a mosque 6 blocks away from Ground Zero be acceptable? Seven?

Of course, when some nutjob tries to blow the place up  we'll be hearing the "what a terrible event...but they sure did bring it on themselves" argument.

[The Fake Shemp]

- Dove World Outreach Center to host "International Burn a Quran Day"
- In video, pastor says Islam is "a religion of the devil"
- The National Association of Evangelicals is asking the church to call off the event
- The Council on American-Islamic Relations is calling on Muslims to launch education efforts

[Dickie Dee]

wow at the 9/11 bill

anyone think it would've been better to let it come to vote? i know i should just be glad that Dems found a spine and didn't let a shitty thing come to pass, but how exactly was this gonna be defended?

[BlueTsunami]

- Dove World Outreach Center to host "International Burn a Quran Day"
- In video, pastor says Islam is "a religion of the devil"
- The National Association of Evangelicals is asking the church to call off the event
- The Council on American-Islamic Relations is calling on Muslims to launch education efforts

Dove World Outreach Center's reverse psychology complete

[Human Snorenado]

I have almost become completely exhausted over our political system and our country in general.

This is pretty much where I'm at.  I just don't have time for this bullshit anymore.  I would still be more interested and involved if Obama had made fucking the Banksters over and fixing that shit his first priority.  Would have made good political sense too, but oh well, he's kind of a fucking pussy.

[Human Snorenado]

- Dove World Outreach Center to host "International Burn a Quran Day"

The Randroids over at Reason are all over that nonsense, just like they were all over the "draw a cartoon of Muhammad" day or whatever a couple years back.  I swear those people are so fucking dumb.

[Phoenix Dark]

He had all the political capitol in the world to fuck them over. I'd imagine republicans would argue regulating banks/Wall Street would ruin businesses during a recession, but Obama would have still been able to get something done; hell, at the time most Americans would have cheered him on.

should have done that immediately after the stimulus.

[Human Snorenado]

Should have made that PART OF the stimulus.  Also apparently should have made the stimulus about 1.2 trillion, with fewer tax cuts.  Whatever.

[The Fake Shemp]

Just watched No End in Sight, which is a fascinating documentary of the lead up to and execution of post-war Iraqi occupation. Man, if there is a film that makes you hate the government - this one is it. It documents a systemic failure within the Bush administration to properly plan and execute anything resembling adequate foreign policy, mostly by policy makers with no combat experience or post-war experience.

Those with such experience are discarded and ignored.

 :'(

[Stoney Mason]

Just watched No End in Sight, which is a fascinating documentary of the lead up to and execution of post-war Iraqi occupation. Man, if there is a film that makes you hate the government - this one is it. It documents a systemic failure within the Bush administration to properly plan and execute anything resembling adequate foreign policy, mostly by policy makers with no combat experience or post-war experience.

Those with such experience are discarded and ignored.

 :'(

I think Bush's War is superior but I did like No End in sight also. It covers a lot of the same material and has interviews with a lot of the same people. 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/

EDIT: Just as a general plug anybody interested in political science or war in general should watch Fog of War if you haven't already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War

[Human Snorenado]

No End in Sight and Bush's War are pretty much the defining rebuttals to the notion that people who don't think like Government should in any way be involved in running the Government.

[Tieno]

[Oblivion]

Re: The 9/11 bill

So the Repubs are saying that they were against the bill cause it might somehow make its way to the illegals right? Now, are they referring to the illegals that helped out with the rescue? Cause if that's the case, isn't that kind of a hard sell? I know that filthy messicans can be scapegoated for a lot of things, but almost anything dealing with 9/11 could be given a free pass nowadays.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I have almost become completely exhausted over our political system and our country in general.

This is pretty much where I'm at.  I just don't have time for this bullshit anymore.  I would still be more interested and involved if Obama had made fucking the Banksters over and fixing that shit his first priority.  Would have made good political sense too, but oh well, he's kind of a fucking pussy.

Just become politically apathetic, like what I imagine most of our generation will grow up to be.  With one side being serial ball droppers and the other side angry and against common sense, I can see most people looking at both, saying "fuck this," and ignore politics entirely.

[The Fake Shemp]

So the Repubs are saying that they were against the bill cause it might somehow make its way to the illegals right? Now, are they referring to the illegals that helped out with the rescue? Cause if that's the case, isn't that kind of a hard sell? I know that filthy messicans can be scapegoated for a lot of things, but almost anything dealing with 9/11 could be given a free pass nowadays.

DEMOCRATS WANT TO RAISE YOUR TAXES AND GIVE YOUR MONEY TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!

[Phoenix Dark]

    "You start out in 1954 by saying, "N*gger, n*gger, n*gger." By 1968 you can't say "n*gger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.

    And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "N*gger, n*gger"
- Lee Atwater

[The Fake Shemp]

I just finished Bush's War, since that was Stony's recommendation, and it makes Rumsfeld look like an incompetent, stubborn egomaniac. He fucked up so much stuff. However, the program - moreso than No End in Sight - makes Condoleeza Rice look like a someone who operated in the shadows and waited for her moment to control the cabinet. In some ways, the battle over control of the war is more interesting than the military battles.

Both programs make Colin Powell look like a competent, wise cabinet member completely alienated by two old dudes with no real combat experience.

[AdmiralViscen]

Mel Gibson, keeping tradition alive 

[Phoenix Dark]

I just finished Bush's War, since that was Stony's recommendation, and it makes Rumsfeld look like an incompetent, stubborn egomaniac. He fucked up so much stuff. However, the program - moreso than No End in Sight - makes Condoleeza Rice look like a someone who operated in the shadows and waited for her moment to control the cabinet. In some ways, the battle over control of the war is more interesting than the military battles.

Both programs make Colin Powell look like a competent, wise cabinet member completely alienated by two old dudes with no real combat experience.

All behind the scenes accounts always look favorably on Powell. Which makes me even more pissed about the good soldier being sent out to lie in front of the UN

[The Fake Shemp]

He was basically sent in front of the UN because the administration knew he was the only member of the cabinet with any credibility - domestically or abroad. And they totally took advantage of that, because Rumsfeld and Cheney absolutely did not like him on a personal level. Several of the people working under him continually thought about resignation, but the thought process was similar to Powell's: if he resigned, he would leave the war COMPLETELY in control of Cheney and Rumsfeld.

[Phoenix Dark]

I lost all respect for Powell after that happened, although in the years that have passed I learned more about the circumstances and softened my position. Unfortunately he knew the charges were bullshit, and did it anyway.

I kinda wonder what would have happened if he resigned at that point. We would have still gone to war, the administration would have one more negative story to deal with but ultimately it wouldn't matter.

[The Fake Shemp]

Except, to his credit, he really didn't know it was bullshit. Both programs really make the case that the State department scrutinized the evidence and basically went line-by-line with Tenet to verify the information, and Tenet told him (as he did with all the administration officials) that the information was a "slam dunk". Powell had concerns and he didn't necessarily buy this stuff at a gut level, but when the director of the CIA tells you that the information is legit - legit enough to literally SIT BEHIND YOU when giving a speech on it - then you have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

For instance: Tenet told Powell that the mobile units and stuff came from multiple sources, and swore on that fact. When in reality, the information came from ONE unreliable source and the information was passed second-hand by the Germans. Powell was unaware of that fact, and Tenet told him differently.

There are two main culprits for this epic clusterfuck: the Cheney/Rumsfeld hydra and Tenet. Cheney/Rumsfeld wanted to orchestrate events to put us in Iraq, without having any semblance of a strategy and were completely unqualified for heading up such an effort. Tenet was the one who was able to skew evidence to fit their designs, so he could get into the clubhouse. Tenet didn't want to be alienated like Powell, and Rice to a lesser extent.

Powell got fucked.

[The Fake Shemp]

Also, it would have been nice to have a President that had a backbone and could make decisions for himself. Both programs paint the man in a different light that many assume; he did challenge a lot of stuff within his own administration, but rarely had the cajones to push back.

For all the liberal trolling that he was a war mongering, illiterate ape with some kind of bloodlust, he really doesn't come off as that when you digest all this information. In fact, by the end of the documentary, I kind of pitied him.

Ultimately, the buck stops with him, but I feel like we got an unqualified President that had honest-to-God good intentions that was totally manipulated and taken advantage of by family friends that operated as "alpha males" within the administration. He tried so hard to appease everyone, he ultimately let his administration spin out of control. It's kind of sad. I gained appreciation for the man on a personal level, but what an awful, awful President. He had no business being in the Oval Office.

[Phoenix Dark]

I definitely have to check the documentary out, sounds amazing.

On Powell: before giving the speech, he did know a lot of it was false. Perhaps the most memorable moment I remember reading about was him looking over his speech and declaring it bullshit.

Much of the initial information for Mr Powell's speech to the UN was provided by the Pentagon, where Paul Wolfowitz, the US deputy defence secretary, set up a special unit, the Office of Special Plans, to counter the uncertainty of the CIA's intelligence on Iraq.

Mr Powell's team removed dozens of pages of alleged evidence about Iraq's banned weapons and ties to terrorists from a draft of his speech, US News and World Report says today. At one point, he became so angry at the lack of adequate sourcing to intelligence claims that he declared: "I'm not reading this. This is bullshit," according to the magazine.

Presented with a script for his speech, Mr Powell suspected that Washington hawks were "cherry picking", the US magazine Newsweek also reports today. Greg Theilmann, a recently retired state department intelligence analyst directly involved in assessing the Iraqi threat, says that inside the Bush administration "there is a lot of sorrow and anger at the way intelligence was misused".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/jun/02/usa.iraq

I'll never understand those on the far left who honestly believe Bush was some evil dictator in chief who dreamed up a world domination plan. He surrounded himself with hawks, and being the dumbass that he is, he was easily persuaded to allow the neo-conservatives to do what they wanted to do for years. Bush seems like a nice guy, albiet someone obviously more interested in helping his rich buddies than anyone else.

Even more ridiculous is his long standing position on being "The Decider" lol

[T-Short]

this is quite nuts, nice one Theissen

WikiLeaks must be stopped

Let's be clear: WikiLeaks is not a news organization; it is a criminal enterprise.

...

[Julian] Assange is a non-U.S. citizen operating outside the territory of the United States. This means the government has a wide range of options for dealing with him. It can employ not only law enforcement but also intelligence and military assets to bring Assange to justice and put his criminal syndicate out of business.

...

With appropriate diplomatic pressure, these governments may cooperate in bringing Assange to justice. But if they refuse, the United States can arrest Assange on their territory without their knowledge or approval. In 1989, the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel issued a memorandum entitled "Authority of the Federal Bureau of Investigation to Override International Law in Extraterritorial Law Enforcement Activities."

This memorandum declares that "the FBI may use its statutory authority to investigate and arrest individuals for violating United States law, even if the FBI's actions contravene customary international law" and that an "arrest that is inconsistent with international or foreign law does not violate the Fourth Amendment." In other words, we do not need permission to apprehend Assange or his co-conspirators anywhere in the world.

went even further on his blog:

http://blog.american.com/?page_id=17659

[The Fake Shemp]

I definitely have to check the documentary out, sounds amazing.

On Powell: before giving the speech, he did know a lot of it was false. Perhaps the most memorable moment I remember reading about was him looking over his speech and declaring it bullshit.

He did know a lot of it was false, and they removed a lot of stuff, but the stuff kept in was stuff that Tenet was standing by. When Powell tried to call his bluff by making him sit behind him during the UN session, Tenet didn't fold. At that point, they went to war with that speech. I mean, again, are you going to call the CIA director a liar, especially if he was willing to literally stand by you (and his intel)?

That pretty much seals the deal for me in regards to Tenet; he had no shame.

I'll never understand those on the far left who honestly believe Bush was some evil dictator in chief who dreamed up a world domination plan. He surrounded himself with hawks, and being the dumbass that he is, he was easily persuaded to allow the neo-conservatives to do what they wanted to do for years. Bush seems like a nice guy, albiet someone obviously more interested in helping his rich buddies than anyone else.

Even more ridiculous is his long standing position on being "The Decider" lol

I think Bush, to some degree, is actually more genuine than Obama - unfortunately he's genuinely codependent and unqualified, and should have never been President. He let the Cheney/Rumsfeld hydra dictate the administration, and those two ran a clinic on how completely fuck up a war. Big surprise that no one, other than Powell, had actual combat experience in that administration. Rumsfeld was the only person that was active duty, but as a Navy pilot in no combat zones.

Bush's willingness to help his rich pals was less about making the rich richer than it was simply appeasing friends. The man has serious self-worth issues in my opinion. It'd be interesting to see someone do a complete psych evaluation on him.

Again, the dysfunction of his cabinet and the struggles of political power are almost more interesting than the war itself. Absolutely amazing that people were willing to let thousands of people die to satiate some kind of political desire.

[The Fake Shemp]

I support Assange's passion for transparency, but the document dump was poorly executed. I mean, how do you release all this information without going through it completely, and not checking to make sure you're not putting innocent lives at stake? That seems pretty stupid and callous, to me.

To his credit, this was at least a completely raw and unbiased perspective of the war (I don't really buy that receiving raw data out of context presents a biased perspective to begin with) rather than the slanted and agenda-driven pieces he has leaked in the past.

[Phoenix Dark]

More genuine than Obama? Interesting; explain

[The Fake Shemp]

I think Bush held true to his values, regardless of whether or not they were any good. He is a Bible-thumping man of the lord, with a naive view of the world, who constantly feels the need to prove himself by gaining the approval of others. His Presidency stayed true to that, for better or worse.

Obama has pretty much been revealed for what he truly is: a run-of-the-mill politician. I think Bush did a better job pushing his personal agenda than Obama simply because Obama doesn't really have much of a personal agenda. He is a center-right Democrat with a lot of strings to corporate donors, trying to push a party agenda and appease lobbyists. It's very wishy-washy. I think Obama is willing to compromise his principles to "get stuff done", whereas Bush is pretty much his way or the highway.

[TakingBackSunday]

Obama's stuck to pretty much everything he stated in his campaign.  It's the cult following that misled people throughout the campaign and first years of his presidency.

[huckleberry]

Colin Powell - what a career.

Helped to cover up My Lai.

Lied to the entire fucking world about WMD in Iraq.


Sad thing is he was a great soldier - but history will not be kind to him.

[The Fake Shemp]

Obama's stuck to pretty much everything he stated in his campaign.  It's the cult following that misled people throughout the campaign and first years of his presidency.

That's not really true. Legislation delivered is not what was promised in his campaign, and instead of pulling back the consolidation of power under Bush, he's either continued or expanded it. Iraq, Gitmo, Don't Ask/Don't Tell, etc. are still on the table.

I wasn't expecting him to bend rivers and stuff, but everything we've had has benefited his corporate sponsors. Big Pharma got catered to, BP was basically pole smoked, the financial regulation is kind of jokey, etc. Other stuff hasn't come to fruition at all.

[TakingBackSunday]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

He's had an absolutely terrible congress to deal with, but he's kept a lot of the promises he made on the campaign trail, including the ones no one is really into, in particular his butt-buddy nature with corporations.  It was all there, pretty obvious to spot, but the people who voted for him were too enamored by "oooooh pretty poster" and viral youtube videos to realize the type of politician he is.

edit: I voted for him and he's for the most part accomplished what I wanted him to, with health care being my real disappointment so far.  I'm voting for him again in 2012, barring anything truly appalling on his part or something equally surprising on the republican side.

[The Fake Shemp]

His landmark bill - the Health Care reform act - had a total lack of transparency, behind-the-closed doors deal with Big Pharma, no public option whatsoever, no ability to import/negotiate drug costs (as per Big Pharma backroom deal), etc. These will things he stated in his campaign that he wanted. I know this, because he put it on his website.

(Those are pretty fucking big concessions.)

It's why I voted for him.

Instead we got a water-down mess of a bill that catered to special interests and Republicans, all because it was the "best" he could do. Sure.

Even if you buy that line of thought, then you have to criticize the President for poorly choosing to waste on his political capital on a bill that sucks. It's been stated earlier, but he could have gone after Wall Street with regulations that had sharp, probing teeth and been rewarded with high poll numbers. And that would have laid a foundation to start building a rock solid agenda. He didn't care, because it would have upset Goldman Sachs his Treasury dudes.

So either he's a President that doesn't live up to his promises, or a President that poorly wasted his political capital. I think he's both. You can pick the latter, but I think that's awfully naive considering where he has laid the down the law - with his corporate sponsors.

[TakingBackSunday]

so in other words, palin 2012

[Phoenix Dark]

The health care bill is watered down sure, but it is in no way a mess of a bill. It's a pretty impressive achievement that can be built upon for years to come. The concessions sucked, but it was either deal or pass nothing. If there was no filibuster in the senate we'd all be praising Obama right now.

Now on financial reform, yes. The concessions were more of a problem because you basically get one shot at finreg; it's not something that gets built upon historically.

I'm confused how one can argue Bush was a genuine politician whereas Obama is a run of the mill politician with corporation strings. You'd be hard pressed to argue how Bush was less corporate owned considering his war against all regulation, letting oil companies write his energy bill, war contracts, and of course letting Wall Street run a train on the tax payers' asses. At the least Obama has introduced to regulation and consumer protections potent enough to piss off lobbyists/corporations. I'd be hard pressed to think of any major legislation Bush passed that truly benefited the American people, which can't be said of Obama so far.