"A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics

[Oblivion]

http://jezebel.com/5862283/black-people-hurting-our-troops-says-ridiculous-fox-news-report

Wow, just wow.

It's like the article says:

Fox News: destroying parody since 1996.

[Phoenix Dark]

http://gawker.com/5862538/obamas-god+less-remarks-ruined-wingnut-thanksgiving

[Human Snorenado]

Come on feel the Newtmentum!  NH Union Leader endorses Newt

Actually kinda surprised by this, figured they'd be endorsing Romney.  If Newt manages to win an early state or two... man.

[Phoenix Dark]

Come on feel the Newtmentum!  NH Union Leader endorses Newt

Actually kinda surprised by this, figured they'd be endorsing Romney.  If Newt manages to win an early state or two... man.

They savaged Romney in 08, to the point some national conservative mags had to defend him.  Good news for Newt, let's see if he fucks this up. The field is trying to bury him over his immigration sanity (well, outside of letting WWII draft-esque boards decide which illegal immigrants stay or go..).

I was watching Bachman on PBS News Hour (I'm a nerd fuck you) and she was lying out of teeth. Utterly hilarious. She claimed Gingrich wants to legalize 11 million people and supports a federal DREAM Act lol.

[Human Snorenado]

I don't think Michelle Bachmann ever actually lies per se, in that I can see her actually believing every crazy fucking thing that comes out of her mouth.

[Mandark]

Arab League approves Syria sanctions

Almost unanimously (Iraq and Lebanon abstained).  Seems like kind of a big deal.  I figured that Syria would be like Iran, where US analysts got their hopes up that a hostile regime would get toppled, and overestimated how fragile the situation was.  Now?  I dunno.

[Phoenix Dark]

Russia and China have not changed their tune on Syria, which seems more important in relation to possible US intervention; iirc there are many Russian citizens in Syria, plus other ties. The Syrian government/military will be able to quell rebellion easier than Libya or Egypt, although that's not to say a rebellion cannot be successful. Just, the US won't be doing whatever it wants to do covertly or overtly.

[MrAngryFace]

Newt is the closest we'll get to an ACTUAL antichrist in office . GOP self fulfilling prophecy

[Oblivion]

Completely random, but I just learned that the founder of wikipedia is a libertarian. Wtf? 

[Dickie Dee]

Not completely unsurprising, what with belleving in the "Invisible Hand" and all...

[Phoenix Dark]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/69243.html

[Mupepe]

Why the hell would that idiot even jump into the race with all these skeletons in his closet?  Did he really think they wouldn't come out?

[Phoenix Dark]

the story: http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/ginger-white-claims-affair-herman-cain-20111127-es

Cain got in the race with the sole intention of selling books, getting a primetime RNC speaking slot, and maybe setting up for a House run later. He clearly didn't expect to become a leading candidate, and when he did he just decided to ride the wave.

[Mupepe]

True.  But outside of a book deal (probably about his scandalous run for President) I doubt he's getting any of that shit now.

[Oblivion]

lol @ the tweets:

http://dailykos.com/story/2011/11/28/1040584/-Herman-Cain:-And-then-there-were--who-the-heck-knows-anymore?via=blog_1

[Phoenix Dark]

She showed us some of her cell phone bills that included 61 phone calls or text messages to or from a number starting with 678. She says it is Herman Cain's private cell phone. The calls were made during four different months-- calls or texts made as early as 4:26 in the early morning, and as late as 7:52 at night. The latest were in September of this year.

“We've never worked together,” said White. “And I can't imagine someone phoning or texting me for the last two and a half years, just because.”

We texted the number and Herman Cain called us back. He told us he "knew Ginger White" but said these are "more false allegations." He said she had his number because he was "trying to help her financially.”

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/ginger-white-claims-affair-herman-cain-20111127-es

 

[Human Snorenado]

Why the hell would that idiot even jump into the race with all these skeletons in his closet?  Did he really think they wouldn't come out?

...to sell books?  Fucking duh, these people want in on those sweet Koch bros dollars.  Gotta get them some wingnut welfare!

[Howard Alan Treesong]

"Mr. Cain has been informed today that your television station plans to broadcast a story this evening in which a female will make an accusation that she engaged in a 13-year long physical relationship with Mr. Cain. This is not an accusation of harassment in the workplace – this is not an accusation of an assault - which are subject matters of legitimate inquiry to a political candidate.

Rather, this appears to be an accusation of private, alleged consensual conduct between adults - a subject matter which is not a proper subject of inquiry by the media or the public. No individual, whether a private citizen, a candidate for public office or a public official, should be questioned about his or her private sexual life. The public's right to know and the media's right to report has boundaries and most certainly those boundaries end outside of one's bedroom door.

Mr. Cain has alerted his wife to this new accusation and discussed it with her. He has no obligation to discuss these types of accusations publicly with the media and he will not do so even if his principled position is viewed unfavorably by members of the media."

Sandusky's lawyer's working overtime

[Great Rumbler]

The irony in that is palpable.

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Clinton

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[Howard Alan Treesong]

The irony in that is palpable.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Clinton

[close]

Non-denials are the new denials. "If my wife knew, was it really an affair?"

[Oblivion]

Mr. Cain has alerted his wife to this new accusation and discussed it with her. He has no obligation to discuss these types of accusations publicly with the media and he will not do so even if his principled position is viewed unfavorably by members of the media."

[Phoenix Dark]

Quote of the Day

Retiring member of Congress Barney Frank on the House under Republican rule: "It consists half of people who think like Michele Bachmann and half of people who are afraid of losing a primary to people who think like Michele Bachmann and that leaves very little room to work things out."

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/barney-frank-goes-out-swinging-pledges-not-to-be-a-lobbyist.php?ref=fpblg

[Brehvolution]

I use my invisible market hand to not shop at walmart or buy gas from stations that show fox news on TVs inside.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

You know what's always fascinated me is the canned response you get from ulta libertarians and free market evangelists. "If you don't like x product/your salary/your working conditions/whatever, you're free to find another product/place of employment/whatever. Simple as that."

What I find fascinating is that these people seem to think that 1) this is a completely original argument that no one involved in the debate has ever heard, 2) that using this argument should pretty much end all debate on whatever the subject is, and 3) that this is some natural law as immutable and intrinsic to the fabric of the universe as the Laws of Thermodynamics.

They expect this argument to be some sort of win button, and yet when I see it, all I can do is facepalm.

Well for some discussions - like the completely voluntary associations you outlined - that's all there is to be said if the goal is rhetoric based on rationality; beyond lies the realm of childish, emotional yammering.

JayDubya is the Eddy Gordo of win-button mashing

[Van Cruncheon]

You know what's always fascinated me is the canned response you get from ulta libertarians and free market evangelists. "If you don't like x product/your salary/your working conditions/whatever, you're free to find another product/place of employment/whatever. Simple as that."

What I find fascinating is that these people seem to think that 1) this is a completely original argument that no one involved in the debate has ever heard, 2) that using this argument should pretty much end all debate on whatever the subject is, and 3) that this is some natural law as immutable and intrinsic to the fabric of the universe as the Laws of Thermodynamics.

They expect this argument to be some sort of win button, and yet when I see it, all I can do is facepalm.

Well for some discussions - like the completely voluntary associations you outlined - that's all there is to be said if the goal is rhetoric based on rationality; beyond lies the realm of childish, emotional yammering.

there's nothing rational about the need to ascribe simple, nonsensical rules to human social behavior. letting your insecurities govern your arguments is about the lowest form of anti-intellectualism there is!

[Phoenix Dark]

Well if you don't like his posts you can go to another forum

[Great Rumbler]

If you don't like the American government regulating business, you're free to go to another country.

[Mupepe]

It's not just weak sauce, it's the lowest form of deflection and debate.  It's wholly unrealistic and childish.  You don't like earning shit wage?  Go find a job with a better wage.  It's that simple.  You're not a millionaire yet?  You obviously haven't tried.  It takes a whole new level of stupidity to throw out suggestions without accounting for the real life hurdles that complicates these issues.  In fact, it's the whole reason that libertarians are idiots in the first place... Trying to apply simple solutions to enormously complicated issues.

[drew]

In fact, it's the whole reason that libertarians are idiots in the first place... Trying to apply simple solutions to enormously complicated issues.

 

[drew]

oops

[Van Cruncheon]

if you don't like your fetus, you're free to abort it WAAAIIIIT

[Mandark]

Hm, what happened to drew's racist comment?  Man up and own it, dude.

[Phoenix Dark]

what happened with the edit, didn't see

[Phoenix Dark]

AZ State Sen. Lori Klein Defends Cain: If He Didn't Hit On Me...

As Herman Cain’s campaign deals with allegations of a 13-year long affair to go along with accusations of sexual harassment and assault, one of his supporters says the stories are all wrong — and she would know.

In an interview with CBS, Arizona State Sen. Lori Klein, Cain’s campaign chair in the state, said he’s “never been anything but a gentlemen – and I am not an unattractive woman.”

She said that Cain should sue Ginger White for alleging the affair, adding that in politics “we want a virgin to do a hooker’s job.”

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/updates/2208

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[close]

[TakingBackSunday]

if it didn't butt heads with their randian style of annoying atheism, libertardians would so love an eye for an eye

[Mupepe]

Hey man, if you don't like abortion don't go to the clinics

Hey man, if you don't like slavery, don't go to the market. 

Exactly.  The invisible hand will guide the general public's morality. 

[Mupepe]

Exactly, the invisible hand will end slavery, no problem, right?

YOU SON OF A BITCH

[Brehvolution]

Nobody is 'pro-abortion'.

[Mupepe]

It's wholly unrealistic and childish.

The usual "but it's not faaaaaaiir" retort being the apex of realism and maturity, of course.

Oops.  You're deflecting again.  I didn't say anything about being fair.  I said that telling someone "well find a better paying job" is simple and a childish viewpoint that is void of any real world perspective in what it takes to get said job.  Stay on target.

Hey man, if you don't like abortion don't go to the clinics

Hey man, if you don't like slavery, don't go to the market. 

Exactly.  The invisible hand will guide the general public's morality.

It would, in fact, be more logically consistent for pro-abortion folks to be abject anarchists opposing any laws governing human behavior at all.   The usual assertion of "pro-choice" rings pretty hollow in light of the fact that so many wish to impose upon freedom of choice in so many ways.

Wait wait, this can't be serious.  Maybe I'm not understanding something.  But the fact that I'm pro choice is hypocritical because I'm also against allowing people to buy slaves?  Is that what you're saying?  It's not like owning farm animals or pets because slavery restricts rights on other people.  I'm all fine and dandy with your choices if it doesn't fuck with someone's rights. 

[Mandark]

what happened with the edit, didn't see

He quoted the link to the Fox story about Detroit workers on their break and said (if not verbatim, close to it) "I don't see anything wrong with this.  Detroit blacks are the worst."

Hey man, if you don't like abortion don't go to the clinics

Hey man, if you don't like slavery, don't go to the market. 

Says the guy who seriously argued on GAF that slaves were culpable for their plight because they didn't rebel.

[Mandark]

But the obvious retort is that someone can support freedom of choice and oppose abortion just fine - assuming of course, that one doesn't mind laws against aggressive killing of other humans - whereas total consistency with the notion of all choices should be legally permissable would be anarchy.

By the same token a vegan is only consistent if they want the police to arrest and imprison anyone eating a hamburger, else they are terrible hypocrites.

O WAIT I'VE BEEN DRAWN INTO JAYDUBYA'S NETHERWORLD OF SHITTY HIGH SCHOOL DEBATE TECHNIQUES SOMEONE RESCUE ME

[TakingBackSunday]

As far as the rest, slaves weren't persons.  Hence the legality of owning them.  Hence the above counterpoint.

[Mandark]

You specifically said that American slaves bore a significant part of the blame for their own bondage.  I'm just paraphrasing your own post, man.  If you don't like how it reflects on you, that's not my problem.

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The awesome follow-up was when I asked if this implied rape victims bore responsibility for the crime if they didn't physically struggle, and JD was all "gosh, what an interesting question..."

[close]

[Mandark]

Ooooooh, is that an accusation of dishonesty?  You gonna pretend that you never said DC shouldn't have residential areas either?  Poor search functions are the last refuge of a scoundrel, as Oscar Wilde said.

[Dickie Dee]

Ooooooh, is that an accusation of dishonesty?  You gonna pretend that you never said DC shouldn't have residential areas either?  Poor search functions are the last refuge of a scoundrel, as Oscar Wilde said.

If they're so fleet-footed why don't they run somewhere they can vote

[Mandark]

Okay, bringing this back to where it started so we can wrap it up and get back to Herman Cain's sex life:


When a libertopian says something is "voluntary" they are implying that every circumstance of someone's life is purely the result of that person's decisions.  This shouldn't just be obviously wrong to anyone who's lived in the real world for more than a fortnight, but also to libertarians particularly.  The point of a market economy is to efficiently allocate scarce resources.  If it works well, then growth ticks up a couple percentage points a year and over time there's a bigger pie, but there are always limits and tradeoffs.  Not everyone can be rich, despite their best efforts.

"Ah, but the market creates a meritocracy, where the most deserving get their due!"  The idea is that the limited resources get divvied up with the bulk going to the most deserving, because of their skill and the choices they made.  Again, it doesn't work like that.  Not all capital is human capital.  Inheriting the company from dad works just as well (notice how many repeat last names on the Forbes 400 richest list).  More modestly, it's a lot easier to get a college degree if you don't need to work while taking classes, or worry about debt repayments.  Hell, how much is American citizenship and fluency in English worth, in average lifetime earnings?

That's not to say that people don't make their own life decisions or live with the consequences.  But different people are given different options and incentives, often from the day they were born, which can have a huge impact on their prosperity and health.  It's not out of line for someone to call out the system for not giving everyone a fair shake.

This really ought to be clear during a cyclical recession.  There are tens and tens of millions of people who are unemployed, working part-time, or working worse jobs than they had four years ago.  Why?  Did those people suddenly decide to become poorer?  Did their skills and value to the market suddenly evaporate?  Or were they victims of a macroeconomic, global phenomenon over which they had no control?  It seems not just callous, but obtuse to blame people for being out or work in these circumstances.

[Mandark]

There's a great quote from Keynes or JK Galbraith that I can never find, but goes something like this:

"Imagine a man named James Miller.  A million people lose their jobs, and Mr. Miller is among them.  Nobody would think to accuse Mr. Miller of being responsible for one million people being put out of a job, but many will blame him for his own circumstance."

[Brehvolution]

Nobody is 'pro-abortion'.

I am.  I think there's a lot of cases where an abortion is warranted and justified.

Most definitely.

It's the new conservative wordspin of changing pro-choice to pro-abortion. It sounds more evil. Like saying 'Entitlement' instead of the proper term 'Earned Benefit'.

[Positive Touch]

some people are just born to be screwed, and there's nothing we should do to help them!

[Mandark]

JD:  You're the one who said that any discussion of people's job prospects and circumstances beyond "if you don't like it, change it yourself" constituted "childish, emotional yammering."  Sounds like you might want to amend that slightly.

Oh, and coercion's most definitely a factor in who has access to capital and who doesn't.  Yes, even in a market economy.  What's backing all those private property laws?

[Mupepe]

Whatever do you mean, Mandark?  Do you mean that people with the most liquid capital in a society basically make and enforce the rules upon everyone?  No effin way.  People earn dog shit and pay crazy tuition fees because they like to.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

can we get back to talking about Cainsplosion and STRATOSPHERIC NEWTMENTUM

Newt is like the Muppet Man of Not-Romney Supporters

Perry + Bachman + Cain = NEWTMENTUM

Like the Power Rangers!

[Human Snorenado]

Barack Obama is probably tweaking his nipples in joy at the mere thought of getting to run against Newt.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Barack Obama is probably tweaking his nipples in joy at the mere thought of getting to run against Newt.

No doubt - anyone who's been in politics as long as Newt must have some skeletons in his closet!

I hope Newt wins simply because he will have the same hilarious buyers remorse as every not-Mitt to date, but by then it will be TOO LATE because we thought he was a thinker and a statesman.

[Human Snorenado]

I think most of Newt's skeletons are pretty public at this point, barring some more "I was consulted as a historian and paid a lot of money because stfu that's why" type stuff.

Newt's biggest problem is that he is, or is at least perceived as a dick by about 50% of the voting public.

[MrAngryFace]

Good news for him then- voters are distinguished mentally-challenged going by 2010s results

[Oblivion]

The Fannie/Freddie 'historian' thing didn't hurt him at all in the polls. Not surprising, though, considering just like the bank bailouts, most righties never gave a shit about it to begin with.

[Oblivion]

Btw, seems the Cain train is coming to its final stop.


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/195893-report-cain-qreassessingq-whether-to-stay-in-race

Herman  :'(

[Joe Molotov]

Hurry, someone donate a ton of money to his campaign so we can keep the lulz coming!

[Human Snorenado]

NINE NINE NINE

NEVAR FORGET

 :'(