Author Topic: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba baaaa  (Read 464207 times)

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Bloodwake

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That was definitely real. It really seemed like he was having flashbacks or something

It's never a good thing to show you are too emotionally involved. I believe it was genuine.

HLR

Bocsius

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Again, it doesn't matter. Palin played to the base well, but I think (and the early polls are showing) that Biden appealed to more independents/undecideds.

Tristam

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IIRC, at one point in the debate Palin referred to Biden's wife, but I can't remember the exchange. What was it?

duckman2000

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It was also quite remarkable how she managed to dodge difficulty by accusing the other party of digging too much into the past. Well, there are two terms of her party's work to dig in! She also managed to turn a question about reaching across party lines into an incredibly partisan "this is your ticket" speech. Remarkable.

Bocsius

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IIRC, at one point in the debate Palin referred to Biden's wife, but I can't remember the exchange. What was it?

It was about her being a teacher.

Phoenix Dark

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The interesting thing was that he brought up the idea that just because he's a man he doesn't know what it's like the raise a kid alone. Very powerful social statement and show of emotion
010

I love how Palin slammed the Democrats for being so concerned with the past, but then mentioned how she and McCain will use lessons they've learned from the past to bring about change.  ::)
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duckman2000

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The recording cut off before the debate had ended, right before the closing arguments. She didn't bring up the maverick again, did she?

I love how Palin slammed the Democrats for being so concerned with the past, but then mentioned how she and McCain will use lessons they've learned from the past to bring about change.  ::)

And, of course, used Biden's voting record against him. In a real debate, she would have been vaporized.

Smooth Groove

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Did anyone else feel like hurling when Palin try to bring up some good vs evil shit?  GTFO with that fairy tales shit.

Bocsius

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The recording cut off before the debate had ended, right before the closing arguments. She didn't bring up the maverick again, did she?


Did you see the part where Biden railed against the "McCain is a maverick" talking point right before the end? I don't recall if Palin specifically used the term in her closing statement, but I think Biden effectively nuked it with his rebuke.

Fresh Prince

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I believe he was really getting choked up but really such things are unnecessary to the debate. If people think it's fake then you're manipulative, if they think it real then as a man you're seen as weak.
888

duckman2000

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Did anyone else feel like hurling when Palin try to bring up some good vs evil shit?  GTFO with that fairy tales shit.

I think that is honestly just her world view. She doesn't know anything about the world. Nothing. Which ironically makes her "USA, Maverick, USA" chants ring quite hollow. Not much point in considering the viewpoint of someone who is honestly absolutely uneducated on that matter.

Did you see the part where Biden railed against the "McCain is a maverick" talking point right before the end? I don't recall if Palin specifically used the term in her closing statement, but I think Biden effectively nuked it with his rebuke.

Yeah, that's why I was wondering if she had crossed that one out. It was about time that someone neutralized the maverick shit. Maverick he may be, but hardly in a way that you'd want to use for promoting him.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 12:57:00 AM by duckman2000 »

Bocsius

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He's not John Edwards, so I think he'll get the benefit of the doubt on that point if people really stop to think about it, although I doubt they will.

Debaser

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Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2293 on: October 03, 2008, 12:56:06 AM »
Again, it doesn't matter. Palin played to the base well, but I think (and the early polls are showing) that Biden appealed to more independents/undecideds.

She screwed up here too, and Biden nailed her to the wall with it. Her entire function in McCain's campaign is to appeal to small-town American fundies scared shitless of secular liberal big-city America, and then she went and said she kind of supported gay marriage, sure, why not? Biden picked up on it immediately and said, not in so many words, "HEY DID YOU HEAR THAT? PALIN IS FOR GAY MARRIAGE JUST LIKE ME."

duckman2000

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I believe he was really getting choked up but really such things are unnecessary to the debate. If people think it's fake then you're manipulative, if they think it real then as a man you're seen as weak.

I don't think that's true, not given the context. Even Biff McGrizzly can relate to choking up over losing close family members.

The Fake Shemp

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Why don't any of these moderators actually moderate? This is absurd. Say whatever you want please - don't answer the questions!
PSP

AdmiralViscen

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Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2296 on: October 03, 2008, 12:57:34 AM »
The recording cut off before the debate had ended, right before the closing arguments. She didn't bring up the maverick again, did she?


Holy fuck dude, WATCH HER CLOSING STATEMENT. It makes absolutely no sense, it's her worst moment by far.

Tristam

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I believe he was really getting choked up but really such things are unnecessary to the debate. If people think it's fake then you're manipulative, if they think it real then as a man you're seen as weak.

Intentional or not, it was flawlessly executed because he recovered so quickly from it. He didn't bow his head in grief or shed tears -- it was a catch in his voice, nothing more. Yet anything less would have been seen as less than human.

duckman2000

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Why don't any of these moderators actually moderate? This is absurd. Say whatever you want please - don't answer the questions!

It's crazy, it really is. Although she tried a few times, she was nowhere near as insistent and persistent as she should have been. I'd prefer a conversation and debate that wasn't moderated, but if they are going to have a moderator, then have them be moderators.

The recording cut off before the debate had ended, right before the closing arguments. She didn't bring up the maverick again, did she?


Holy fuck dude, WATCH HER CLOSING STATEMENT. It makes absolutely no sense, it's her worst moment by far.

Is it available online somewhere?


Smooth Groove

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Why don't any of these moderators actually moderate? This is absurd. Say whatever you want please - don't answer the questions!

Because everyone in the media is afraid of being labeled as a liberal? 

AdmiralViscen

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Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2300 on: October 03, 2008, 01:00:06 AM »
It's not like she could say shit - the right would have leapt all over her if she actually tried to needle Palin.

AdmiralViscen

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Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2301 on: October 03, 2008, 01:00:41 AM »
Why don't any of these moderators actually moderate? This is absurd. Say whatever you want please - don't answer the questions!

It's crazy, it really is. Although she tried a few times, she was nowhere near as insistent and persistent as she should have been. I'd prefer a conversation and debate that wasn't moderated, but if they are going to have a moderator, then have them be moderators.

The recording cut off before the debate had ended, right before the closing arguments. She didn't bring up the maverick again, did she?


Holy fuck dude, WATCH HER CLOSING STATEMENT. It makes absolutely no sense, it's her worst moment by far.

Is it available online somewhere?



I dunno. CNN is reairing it right now though, it'll be on again in 40 minutes.

Bocsius

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I believe the moderators' hands are largely tied since the format of the debate and what is allowed and not allowed is negotiated by lawyers for the respective camps.

Insert duckman2000 "US Politics sucks" tirade in next post.

Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2303 on: October 03, 2008, 01:01:15 AM »
It's not like she could say shit - the right would have leapt all over her if she actually tried to needle Palin.

Especially since they've already accused her of being pro-Obama because of the book she's writing.
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duckman2000

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I believe the moderators hands are largely tied since the format of the debate and what is allowed and not allowed is negotiated by lawyers for the respective camps.

Insert duckman2000 "US Politics sucks" tirade in next post.

Well, it does. That was my closing argument to my wife after the debate. No wonder people don't vote, not even the debate (lol) designers seem to give a shit.

Bocsius

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I said it in the baseball thread, but I think McCain might have a shot to win Illinois.

AdmiralViscen

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Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2306 on: October 03, 2008, 01:02:56 AM »
Yea, that's what I meant. She was way more muted than even Lehrer was last week.

duckman2000

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Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2307 on: October 03, 2008, 01:04:30 AM »
I dunno. CNN is reairing it right now though, it'll be on again in 40 minutes.

Wolf Blitzer is nowhere near it, right?

Bocsius

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Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2308 on: October 03, 2008, 01:05:36 AM »
I dunno. CNN is reairing it right now though, it'll be on again in 40 minutes.

Wolf Blitzer is nowhere near it, right?

He's in the post debate analysis, but the debate itself is the same feed as everywhere else. Except CNN has that whole audience tracker thing as well as the pundits' live scoring (for HDTV viewers).

Fresh Prince

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It's understandable but really he shouldn't of gone 'in depth'.

Meh I thought she did a better than Jim Lehrer, there was actually back and forth, the argument didn't always end with McCain and she called them out on not answering the question though she did not do anything about it.
888

Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2310 on: October 03, 2008, 01:07:24 AM »
I dunno. CNN is reairing it right now though, it'll be on again in 40 minutes.

Wolf Blitzer is nowhere near it, right?

He's in the post debate analysis, but the debate itself is the same feed as everywhere else. Except CNN has that whole audience tracker thing as well as the pundits' live scoring (for HDTV viewers).

We still don't get CNN HD in Seattle.

Stupid Comcast...
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Bocsius

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Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2311 on: October 03, 2008, 01:09:01 AM »
We still don't get CNN HD in Seattle.

Stupid Comcast...

It's the only HD news channel we get here in Greensboro, NC (Time Warner). But all you're missing here is republican pundits scoring Palin well and democratic pundits scoring Biden well, as per the usual.

Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2312 on: October 03, 2008, 01:10:31 AM »
We still don't get CNN HD in Seattle.

Stupid Comcast...

It's the only HD news channel we get here in Greensboro, NC (Time Warner). But all you're missing here is republican pundits scoring Palin well and democratic pundits scoring Biden well, as per the usual.

I'd honestly watch more cable news if it were in HD.
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Bocsius

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Yeah, oddly enough, CNN has become my cable news channel of choice this year. Coincidence?

Edit: in other words, Time Warner's monopolistic behavior has been rewarded.  :/
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 01:13:48 AM by Bocsius »

duckman2000

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I've finally figured out which TV character she reminds me of. "Karen," from Will & Grace.

I've finally figured out which TV character she reminds me of. "Karen," from Will & Grace.

Yeah, but I actually like Karen.
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MrAngryFace

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That was definitely real. It really seemed like he was having flashbacks or something

If you watch the video you can see him trying to hold it back a few seconds before it really hit. Its all in the movement of his lower jaw.
o_0

TVC15

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Why don't any of these moderators actually moderate? This is absurd. Say whatever you want please - don't answer the questions!

If we selectively moderate we get free PS3s.  Oh shi-
serge

Mandark

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Why don't any of these moderators actually moderate? This is absurd. Say whatever you want please - don't answer the questions!

The rules are agreed to ahead of time and after Palin was nominated the McCain campaign negotiated changed rules for shorter answers, no direct questions from one candidate to the other, etc.

Debates are a pretty good opportunity for the candidates to sketch out their positions on a broad range of topics.  If they want to.

If they come in with the intent of bullshitting and throwing catchphrases into the air like chaff, then it's a bad format to pin them down.  The moderator can't ask a series of follow-up questions because of equal time restraints and a fear of looking partisan.

I do think that big chunks of the public will get turned off by rote repetition of buzzwords, at least when those words don't connect with the zeitgeist.  It's one thing to go "terror terror evildoers terror" when people are actually terrified.  It's another to repeat "maverick" like a mantra when the economy is imploding in slow motion.

brawndolicious

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I saw just a part of the debate and it seems like women are leaning more democratic during this debate, not surprising.  is there anywhere  thatI can stream the whole debate though?

Akala

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hulu

brawndolicious

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:bow akala

MY TAKE:

Biden: he did good.  He did real good. Perhaps i'm not used to the man, but he was very clinical and matter-of-factly about it.  'this is what i'm gonna do, that's number one.  Number two, this is what we will also do." You may disagree with his policies, but you CANNOT deny that he spelled out what his policies are.  However, straight talking your policies - which is what biden just did -  does not necessarily triumph over charisma, and identity politics,  As we all kjnow.  His rebuttals were often but not always awesome.  His 'maverick BS" rebuttal was great, as well as a few others.  He stumbled on some, as well.

In short, Biden was expected to be clean and articulate while laying off of head on bulldozing of Palin, which is what wwe all ideally woudl've wanted to see.  He was given expectations, and he delivered them - not in spades, but delivered them somewhat resoundly.

Palin: She excelled. Palin jsust excelled.  I did not expect her to do this well.  Lemme explain:  After the Couric interivews, I expected - hoped - her debates performance would be at least somehwat like her Couric ones.  i.e. stumbling, rambling, incoherent, muddled, nervous, clueless.

But one thing more important than command of knowledge is perception.  Perception is king.  And she demonstrates that dictum on here tonight.  Yes, she did falter sometimes.  She made some mistakes - repeating 'maverick' too many times.  But she DID NOT embarrass herself.  Her delivery is leagues above Couric ones. Her content is somehwat better than her Couric ones, but still vastly improved.  She cited 'you voted for this' and 'mccain voted for this' and 'obama voted for this shit'. It DOES NOT matter the facts.  What matter is how she DELIVERED the supposed facts.  How she ennunciated herself.  She had a number of 'small town/cozy' mannerism and dialects to warm up to some of the stupider undecided voters out there.  She was never anywhere as clear and clinical as Biden, because she used "PR words" like maverick, against the troops, change change, etc quite a lot.  But that matters less than what she DID NOT do, and that is stumble badly.

the MOD:
A fucking shame, and apathetic moderating job, but can you blame her? The rules practically chain her, and she was [justifiably and legitimately, in myopinion] accused of possible pro-obama bias. Alas.

Conclusion: Biden won on spelling out his positions.  Palin won on regurgitation of Mccain's 'PR words" through a Palin filter of endearment, motherlyness, and whiteness, and small townness, and Alaskaness.  Biden met expectations very firmly and ably.  Palin absolutely exceeded them.

It's effect on Voting:
moderate, but minimally moderate.  With two prez debates and an entire month of potential bombshells lying in wait to go, I give PALIN the WIN.  But a very marginal, minimal WIN.

Pundits:
Fuck them.
Crm

brawndolicious

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It was pretty clear that Biden won that debate.  Frankly, I was surprised that Palin even finished the debate considering how she acted in the Couric interviews.  She really learned how to faux-debate and how to present the BS talking points as laesperanzapaz said.

Overall, I think that moderates will lean democratic.  Palin not making an epic fuck-up might have made some people surprised because of all of the media attention on her mistakes but nobody's going to vote for her because of that.

Fresh Prince

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Low standards -> Country First.
888

MrAngryFace

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Palin excelled....against low expectations. Why people cant be clear on that is beyond my understanding. She didnt answer almost all the questions, and even told the moderator that she wouldnt. Why kind of debate performance is that? Her closing statement was a garbled mess too. Jesus Experiment. Confidence cannot run a country, just cause she didnt bolt or mess stumble on words doesnt mean she did well. Past interviews clearly show she is comfortable presenting non-answers and lies, why is this getting her WOOHOOS from you just now?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 10:29:33 AM by MrAngryFace »
o_0

Tristam

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Palin excelled....against low expectations. Why people cant be clear on that is beyond my understanding. She didnt answer almost all the questions, and even told the moderator that she wouldnt. Why kind of debate performance is that? Her closing statement was a garbled mess too. Jesus Experiment. Confidence cannot run a country, just cause she didnt bolt or mess stumble on words doesnt mean she did well. Past interviews clearly show she is comfortable presenting non-answers and lies, why is this getting her WOOHOOS from you just now?

It's America. I always get annoyed with the suggestion that Obama is (objectively) a poor politician because he can't decimate an incompetent Republican ticket at a time when the GOP isn't enjoying its greatest popularity. A politician's effectiveness is simply a reflection of the electorate's willingness and ability to be affected, so public perception of Palin is an indictment of the American people, not Obama. It's been said before, but as long as her vital organs are functioning in some capacity she's going to receive a large percentage of public support from registered Republicans anyway.

MrAngryFace

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She clearly doesnt have any idea what the constitution actually says, she has a cheney like approach to the vice presidency, she got names and facts wrong all over the place, and refused to answer the questions presented to her and instead did things to openly manipulate the viewers.

I know it may sound all professional pundit to go YAY SARAH U EXCELLED but lets be real, almost nothing she gave us last night was real or honest. She's a horrible candidate, and pretending she somehow did the right thing and came out smelling roses just cause she showed up and gave dudes some boners just perpetuates the idea that there may be substance to her, when in fact there is almost none. Not only that but its the same talk, that upon some freak McCain Win, almost guarantees that we will see that kind of performance from ALL candidates until the end of time.

What she did deserves no reward.
o_0

Brehvolution

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Anyone get bingo?
At least I could sit through the whole thing unlike the Couric interview. The dodging of the questions really put me and my wife wife off though.
©ZH

duckman2000

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Well, you know, we're mavericks! Who knows what we will disagree on! McCain Palin, the bipolar ticket.

I still don't quite get how they can use "maverick" as a decidedly positive term.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 11:32:03 AM by duckman2000 »

Akala

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Well, you know, we're mavericks! Who knows what we will disagree on! McCain Palin, the bipolar ticket.

I still don't quite get how they can use "maverick" as a decidedly positive term.


patrickula

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Anyone get bingo?
One person watching at our place got bingo.  I was close  :-\

edit:
re:"maverick"
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 11:46:28 AM by patrickula »

Bocsius

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Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2332 on: October 03, 2008, 11:47:43 AM »
The way Palin ran the term right into the ground, and Biden destroyed it's usefulness with his rebuttal, I don't think we'll be hearing the word "maverick" that much anymore.

I hope.

Eric P

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Anyone get bingo?
One person watching at our place got bingo.  I was close  :-\

edit:
re:"maverick"
(Image removed from quote.)

i have no idea who that is, but it looks like it's a 90s liefeld character
Tonya

duckman2000

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Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2334 on: October 03, 2008, 12:03:49 PM »
The way Palin ran the term right into the ground, and Biden destroyed it's usefulness with his rebuttal, I don't think we'll be hearing the word "maverick" that much anymore.

I hope.

That's one of the cornerstones of their campaign, though. Sad to say, but it really is.

patrickula

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i have no idea who that is, but it looks like it's a 90s liefeld character
Looks like it :lol
He's another Weapon X dude.  Don't remember much else except that I read a short-lived series with his name on it back when I was still young and reading X-Men comics regularly.  I remember liking it well enough.

Looking him up, I guess he's a Jim Lee creation, absorbs Kinetic Energy (lol), and is now known as "Agent Zero"  ???

Brehvolution

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C.H.A.N.G.E.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:wag
[close]
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Bocsius

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Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2337 on: October 03, 2008, 01:09:13 PM »
-159,000 jobs in September
-760,000 for the year
Unemployment at 6.1%

"My name is John McCain and I approve these numbers."

Flannel Boy

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Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2338 on: October 03, 2008, 01:24:19 PM »
-159,000 jobs in September
-760,000 for the year
Unemployment at 6.1%

"My name is John McCain and I approve these numbers."
Of course this bad news would be released right after Palin's triumphant victory at last night's debate.

tsk tsk reality!

Bocsius

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Re: Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba b
« Reply #2339 on: October 03, 2008, 01:27:43 PM »
-159,000 jobs in September
-760,000 for the year
Unemployment at 6.1%

"My name is John McCain and I approve these numbers."
Of course this bad news would be released right after Palin's triumphant victory at last night's debate.

tsk tsk reality!

On that note...

Quote
Obama said there were plenty of noteworthy moments in the Biden-Palin debate late Thursday, "but there's one that sticks out this morning."

"It's when Governor Palin said to Joe Biden that our plan to get our economy out of the ditch was somehow a job-killing plan. I wonder if she turned on the news this morning," he said.

"So when Senator McCain and his running mate talk about job-killing, that's something they know a thing or two about. Because the policies they've supported and are supporting are killing jobs in America every single day."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081003/pl_afp/usvoteobama_081003163556;_ylt=Ao3XTnls_nkKPPD2Gbfbv2vCw5R4