Author Topic: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster (Read 1313648 times)

Nintex · « **Reply #6420 on:** June 07, 2019, 12:58:25 PM »

Quite shitty for the workers and all.
BUT closing a car plant is VERY GOOD to combat climate change because the plant won't pollute anymore and the workers won't be able to consume as much as before on government welfare.

Kara · « **Reply #6421 on:** June 07, 2019, 01:18:45 PM »

This is more of a post for the LF thread but whatever, we've already gone down the rabbit hole of Perfidious Albion's cursed political landscape.

New Labour Twitter (which inexplicably persists in 2019 and I inexplicably find myself among in 2019) was hot and bothered the other day by a December 2018 tweet from Aaron Bastani (one of the founders of Novara) that said, (paraphrasing) "When I saw all the Lehman Brothers traders carrying out their stuff in 2008 I laughed at the scene and it was then that I realized whose side I was on."

Now you could attack this tweet on "common decency" grounds, to be certain. What about the cleaning, maintenance, and support staffs when the comically evil investment bank collapsed, for example? What about all the tertiary employment in the illegal drugs and sex trafficking industries that was impacted by the sudden unemployment of desk traders? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. We live in a society, bottom text.

*Stephen A.* BUT the tweet that kicked this display off was instead someone posting a screen shot of the tweet and going, (paraphrasing) "I eschew Corbynistas because even though they claim to speak 'for the many' they just really, really hate people." AND a councilor with Change UK - the Independently Wealthy Group replied saying, (paraphrasing) "[isn't the point of Labour] to keep people employed?" Not when it's at the comically evil investment bank, Subject-Councilor!

No one likes these fucking dipshits and this is why.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

When I mentioned this to a pom they didn't really know about Lehman Brothers so I suspect there may be some ignorance to blame for this scene but, like, it's 2019. Use a search engine, lickspittles.

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Occam · « **Reply #6422 on:** June 07, 2019, 02:20:09 PM »

Quote from: BisMarckie on June 07, 2019, 11:04:42 AM

Forum poster Occam unaware of stances and policies that Marxist-Leninist parties have argued for.

They are in dire need of brain medication.

Nintex · « **Reply #6423 on:** June 07, 2019, 05:17:40 PM »

Welp, guess boris wins this one lol

VomKriege · « **Reply #6424 on:** June 07, 2019, 05:30:15 PM »

Well at least he didn't eat some fat sandwich in public.

curly · « **Reply #6425 on:** June 07, 2019, 06:51:12 PM »

Quote from: Occam on June 07, 2019, 10:28:38 AM

https://mobile.twitter.com/itvnews/status/1136610824762601473

(54% pro Brexit voters.)

Quote

He denied that Brexit played any part in the decision: “Hard Brexit would not be good for our business but as far as this decision is concerned it has nothing to do with Brexit.

"The simple question is, if Brexit had never happened, would this decision be different, and the answer is no.”

Shouldn't accept Ford's word at face value but I don't really get how the area voting for Brexit at basically the same rate as the national average shows the plant workers had it coming or whatever

Tripon · « **Reply #6426 on:** June 07, 2019, 08:15:29 PM »

Quote from: curly on June 07, 2019, 06:51:12 PM

Quote from: Occam on June 07, 2019, 10:28:38 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/itvnews/status/1136610824762601473

(54% pro Brexit voters.)

Quote
He denied that Brexit played any part in the decision: “Hard Brexit would not be good for our business but as far as this decision is concerned it has nothing to do with Brexit.

"The simple question is, if Brexit had never happened, would this decision be different, and the answer is no.”

Shouldn't accept Ford's word at face value but I don't really get how the area voting for Brexit at basically the same rate as the national average shows the plant workers had it coming or whatever

He's right in a sense, the EU just did a trade deal with Japan that means no import duties/tax for cars from Japan. England and Japan are the two major countries that still drive on the right side, so it's going to make more sense to just import cars from Japan now.

The real issue is that the UK is such a small market that it makes sense to do it. A lot of industries are just going to think the UK is too small a market to give a shit about it.

Kara · « **Reply #6427 on:** June 07, 2019, 11:02:08 PM »

They also axed Ford Australia awhile back (RIP Falcon).

Raist · « **Reply #6428 on:** June 08, 2019, 03:32:39 AM »

At the end of the day whether or not the decision derived from Brexit either in part or in full doesn't really matter - it will just add to the shitshow that this distinguished mentally-challenged fellowed political decision based on a dumb referendum will turn into.

shosta · « **Reply #6429 on:** June 08, 2019, 03:43:35 AM »

personally I want a hard brexit to ruin all of the UK. I want it to be completely destroyed. houses in disrepair, electricity rationing, collapse of every industry. people dragging their dead across the street, wailing in a new degenerated form of english. scottish gangs terrorizing unlucky travellers in the night. mad max. polio returns. all because I didn't like a piers morgan clip

Raist · « **Reply #6430 on:** June 08, 2019, 03:47:26 AM »

Quote

houses in disrepair, electricity rationing, collapse of every industry

So business as usual then.

Transhuman · « **Reply #6431 on:** June 08, 2019, 02:48:26 PM »

Quote from: Tripon on June 07, 2019, 08:15:29 PM

England and Japan are the two major countries that still drive on the right side, so it's going to make more sense to just import cars from Japan now.

Raist · « **Reply #6432 on:** June 08, 2019, 04:29:39 PM »

Quote

Major country

Quote

Australia

benjipwns · « **Reply #6433 on:** June 10, 2019, 06:16:02 AM »

https://petapixel.com/2019/05/01/kazakhstan-caught-beauty-retouching-photos-of-new-leader/

Quote

The large Asian country of Kazakhstan was just caught “Photoshopping” official photos of its new leader, using beauty retouching techniques to dramatically alter his appearance.

RFE/RL made the discovery after comparing government-released photos with alternate versions captured at the same time by photojournalists in attendance.

VomKriege · « **Reply #6434 on:** June 10, 2019, 06:24:47 AM »

For all we know it might be every other foreign photographer trying to smear this proud new leader by aging him artificially using Photoshop.

Nintex · « **Reply #6435 on:** June 10, 2019, 08:12:26 AM »

There is hope for humanity still.
The Dutch government has started to adopt the innocent orphans of Dutch ISIS fighters from Syria.

https://twitter.com/abdulkarimomar1/status/1137985518724112384

Raist · « **Reply #6436 on:** June 10, 2019, 12:22:10 PM »

lol j/k guys

Quote

Boris Johnson has pledged to cut income tax bills for people earning more than £50,000 a year if he wins the race to succeed Theresa May as prime minister.

The former foreign secretary told the Telegraph he would use money currently set aside for a no-deal Brexit to raise the 40% tax rate threshold to £80,000.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48577579

Nintex · « **Reply #6437 on:** June 10, 2019, 12:30:18 PM »

That makes Mike Pompeo the only person in politics who thinks Corbyn has a shot at becoming PM

shosta · « **Reply #6438 on:** June 10, 2019, 12:32:26 PM »

Pompeo is not "in politics"

Joe Molotov · « **Reply #6439 on:** June 10, 2019, 02:18:42 PM »

Quote from: Esch on June 10, 2019, 02:17:53 PM

You have to admit, it's funny seeing the state dept talk about the UK like it's some milquetoast south american social democracy

That's just part of the US's special relationship with the UK.

shosta · « **Reply #6440 on:** June 10, 2019, 05:32:29 PM »

all conservative minister backstop plans, according to BBC

Gove: wants clarity on how to exit from the backstop (there is already clarity...). UK and Northern Ireland must be treated the same by the EU. Magical, hypothetical "technology".

Hancock: Wants a time-limit to the backstop. This doesn't make sense. The reason it's indefinite is because keeping a soft border in ireland means goods and services will flow across, too, which means the EU's customs must be enforced. Putting a time limit on the backstop either means a) UK gets back into the EU at the end of the time period, b) a hard border appears in Ireland at the end of the time period, or c) you are just creating another meaningless deadline for yourself with no real solutions in sight that you will continue to push back, as usual. Also, "technology".

Harper: "Malthouse compromise", which is basically a request for an extension

Hunt: "technology"

Javid: "technology"

Johnson: Get rid of the backstop and avoid the Irish border question entirely until after a trade deal has been secured.

Leadsom: "Managed exit". This euphemism keeps popping up and I don't know what it means so I'm going to assume it doesn't actually mean anything at all. "Technology". Another EU summit lol

McVey: No deal, baybay!

Raab: "a targeted forensic change to the backstop"

. Actually, Malthouse compromise.

Stewart: Fourth vote on existing deal 👍👍👍👍

I think I don't fully understand what the Malthouse compromise is and no article I read explains it to me well enough to understand so if someone can help me out here, I would appreciate it.

VomKriege · « **Reply #6441 on:** June 10, 2019, 05:42:12 PM »

I know a Swiss journalist argued that a dematerialized border was technologically feasible and he mentioned an example that Switzerland helped setting up. Can't remember where, a quick Google search turns up the Canary Islands (or more specifically the screening between the Canaries and continental Spain) without more details. Barnier doesn't seem convinced but who knows ? Though if it was that easy you'd expect the British would be already working on implementing it.

shosta · « **Reply #6442 on:** June 10, 2019, 05:53:28 PM »

Estimates I've seen say 2030 for "technological solutions". Just leave Northern Ireland in the single market, for fuck's sake.

Rufus · « **Reply #6443 on:** June 10, 2019, 06:15:42 PM »

Quote from: shosta on June 10, 2019, 05:53:28 PM

Estimates I've seen say 2030 for "technological solutions". Just leave Northern Ireland in the single market, for fuck's sake.

Gonna have to cut them loose first and that's not looking likely.

Kara · « **Reply #6444 on:** June 10, 2019, 07:19:45 PM »

Partition a country you colonized brehs.

Raist · « **Reply #6445 on:** June 11, 2019, 05:25:15 AM »

"we need to take back control of our borders"

"OK, so what about the RoI/NI one?"

Kara · « **Reply #6446 on:** June 11, 2019, 10:29:51 AM »

In the Intercept article they have a paragraph where they just link to credulous Western media articles about the Lula prosecution and one of them is an embarrassing Transparency International award given to the prosecutors. Go off, kings, queens, and gender nonconforming monarchs.

Couldn't help but notice in that story that the libertarian party filed the court petition challenging the court order to permit interviewing Lula from jail. LIBERTARIAN MOMENT.

shosta · « **Reply #6447 on:** June 11, 2019, 12:54:40 PM »

(CNBC) Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross predicts Trump and China will reach a trade deal — ‘even shooting wars end in negotiations’

Raist · « **Reply #6448 on:** June 11, 2019, 03:19:25 PM »

https://twitter.com/katemoulesx/status/1137496713382551556

benjipwns · « **Reply #6449 on:** June 11, 2019, 10:20:32 PM »

Quote from: Kara on June 11, 2019, 10:29:51 AM

Couldn't help but notice in that story that the libertarian party filed the court petition challenging the court order to permit interviewing Lula from jail. LIBERTARIAN MOMENT.

I'll have you know that libertarians in the Americas have a fantastic track record of filing court motions no one else will bother with that do nothing to help advance the libertarian movement and are nothing but money/resource sinks for it.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Was it Costa Rica where the party actually had some semblance of power in the legislature but killed itself off going to the mat fighting for the rights of the other parties, against the dominant conservatives, which would never do anything so selfless and who immediately passed laws cracking down on smaller parties.

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Nintex · « **Reply #6450 on:** June 13, 2019, 06:01:45 AM »

Lmao

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1138926257998106624

Raist · « **Reply #6451 on:** June 13, 2019, 11:51:03 AM »

If it wasn't clear already, the UK is fucked

Nintex · « **Reply #6452 on:** June 13, 2019, 01:28:58 PM »

Boris!!!

Rufus · « **Reply #6453 on:** June 13, 2019, 01:59:54 PM »

No deal was and is a stupid idea.

So let's pick the thundering idiot who wants it at every cost.

Nintex · « **Reply #6454 on:** June 13, 2019, 02:06:19 PM »

I wonder if Merkel jumps from the Reichstag if she realizes the next big international event will have Trump, Boris, Salvini and Putin.

Rufus · « **Reply #6455 on:** June 13, 2019, 02:08:55 PM »

She's too close to retirement to do anything rash.

shosta · « **Reply #6456 on:** June 13, 2019, 05:21:47 PM »

I genuinely get a lot of anxiety thinking about Chinese-American relations. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that things are not productive right now, that the future does not look any better, and that this might be the end of relative trust between the US and China. This quote from Petrarch comes to mind...

"My fate is to live among varied and confusing storms. But for you perhaps, if as I hope and wish you will live long after me, there will follow a better age. This sleep of forgetfulness will not last for ever. When the darkness has been dispersed, our descendants can come again in the former pure radiance."

Nintex · « **Reply #6457 on:** June 13, 2019, 05:24:08 PM »

Quote from: shosta on June 13, 2019, 05:21:47 PM

I genuinely get a lot of anxiety thinking about Chinese-American relations. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that things are not productive right now, that the future does not look any better, and that this might be the end of relative trust between the US and China. This quote from Petrarch comes to mind...

"My fate is to live among varied and confusing storms. But for you perhaps, if as I hope and wish you will live long after me, there will follow a better age. This sleep of forgetfulness will not last for ever. When the darkness has been dispersed, our descendants can come again in the former pure radiance."

Nah, this is just e-penis measuring on an international level. The US and China need eachother.
Without the US China can't sell their shit. Without China the US can't produce their shit.
The force is perfectly balanced.

shosta · « **Reply #6458 on:** June 13, 2019, 05:27:37 PM »

You think Trump doesn't hike tariffs at the end of the month? You really think he's rational? lol

Nintex · « **Reply #6459 on:** June 13, 2019, 05:43:06 PM »

Quote from: shosta on June 13, 2019, 05:27:37 PM

You think Trump doesn't hike tariffs at the end of the month? You really think he's rational? lol

The biggest victim so far is Huwaei, which is cast out from the overly crowded not very profitable Android smartphone market.

It's stupendously easy to evade those tariffs.
Russia has been avoiding the sanctions for years. For example, they sell their shit through Belarus which is not sanctioned and buy goods banned in Russia from Ukraine.
China with all its wealth, connections and overseas assets can easily ship and repackage if they want to. They own ports all over Europe and Africa.

The US needs some sort of arrangement to make up for the loss of their manfucaturing to China.
The Trump administration is not wrong to call out China for their IP theft and currency devaluations.

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #6460 on:** June 13, 2019, 06:56:55 PM »

Cool, guess we're going to war in the Middle East again.

shosta · « **Reply #6461 on:** June 13, 2019, 06:58:24 PM »

should have just stayed in the Iran deal. we backed Iran into a corner and now we're going to level Tehran. am I catastrophizing or no? Because every time people tell me things will be fine they get worse.

BisMarckie · « **Reply #6462 on:** June 13, 2019, 07:01:29 PM »

Fight wars for the Saudis brehs

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I don’t think a war against Iran will happen. That would be just too stupid, even for America.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

If it happens though, I just hope we stay out of this one again, just like the war against Iraq even though Trump will throw an even bigger tantrum than Bush.

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VomKriege · « **Reply #6463 on:** June 13, 2019, 07:05:55 PM »

Quote from: Esch on June 13, 2019, 06:51:31 PM

https://twitter.com/SecPompeo/status/1139237781664874499

Quote from: BBC News

Mr Pompeo presented no evidence.

BisMarckie · « **Reply #6464 on:** June 13, 2019, 07:08:06 PM »

Gleiwitz

shosta · « **Reply #6465 on:** June 13, 2019, 07:12:15 PM »

For me it's worse than being dragged dick first by the neocons into a devastating conflict on behalf of securing regional hegemony for the egyptian, israeli, saudi allegiance. I think the administration is filled with morons who don't know how to predict how actors will react, who think their balls to the wall tough "negotiating" is at all an effective tool for getting the things they want, and who have a working theory of the universe plucked straight out of Southland Tales.

Kara · « **Reply #6466 on:** June 13, 2019, 07:28:25 PM »

Critical support for the Trump regime trying to destroy the U.S. as both a military and economic hegemon.

Trurl · « **Reply #6467 on:** June 13, 2019, 08:08:47 PM »

Is the trade war better understood as the whims of one president, or as a dominant society trying to thwart a rising one?

Joe Molotov · « **Reply #6468 on:** June 13, 2019, 08:13:46 PM »

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1139301939731148801

Nintex · « **Reply #6469 on:** June 14, 2019, 04:35:00 AM »

The day Pompeo went war drummin Trump praised Abe for meeting Ali. When Kim fired Missiles Trump said he didn't care and sided with North Korea against Biden. When Russia captured Ukranian vessels and blocked a waterway Trump didn't care. Iran would have to make this personal to make Trump care enough to go to war.

benjipwns · « **Reply #6470 on:** June 14, 2019, 04:57:36 AM »

It's not really related to being personal and I think that makes it way too complex. Trump has a reflexive anti-war streak because he's afraid of making a mistake on it and looking bad. He got Iraq "right" simply because he was posturing against W. and conventional wisdom from a position of no consequences and turning out right helped reinforce this. He'd otherwise never taken stances on anything like that. He was always a frontrunner.

That article about everyone in the departments being upset with Trump for not warring enough actually said this without saying this. All the sources essentially said that when they get to the point where they have to ask Trump "yes or no" he disappoints them by siding with "no, not yet" and they have to go be diplomatic. There was always lots of talk that Obama reflexively said "yes" because he was afraid of appearing too anti-war or whatever. Especially when Clinton was Secretary of State, and when Kerry came in it changed as Kerry is less hawkish than Hillary simply because he's a ditherer while she decides and then sticks to it and will literally murder people who dare her to change. Anything that lets Trump "not decide" or punt is basically what he wants.

In cases where they can essentially do as they wish without asking due to longstanding situations, the departments do, and Trump eagerly takes credit for the successes even though he didn't order anything or make any decisions on it.

Trump doesn't see trade or any other kind of foreign policy as the same, he was quite steeped in the military ethos coming up and while he is totally disregarding of everything about it on a personal level, he was always said to be super respectful of the concept and I think that leads to him on some level recognizing the potential and literal human cost (especially coming of age through Vietnam) that contributes to his hesitancy. He doesn't want to look bad causing deaths of soldiers more than anything. I think he also likes to think that the troops love him and he's reluctant to introduce anything that may contradict that like killing a bunch of them.

Wars through Twitter are the perfect Trump War. Actual wars, not so much. That's the frustration that someone like Bolton has, that then gets into the press about how Trump is fucking up good opportunities to bring lesser nations to heel.

Kara · « **Reply #6471 on:** June 14, 2019, 11:07:34 AM »

Who are you going to trust, the actual victims or the CIA?

VomKriege · « **Reply #6472 on:** June 14, 2019, 11:34:39 AM »

I'm not sure I buy much into the whole Trump as a rampart to hawks, though I guess it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation of who started pulling the Iran string between Trump or some high profile members of his administration (Mattis already was weary of Iran or am I remembering this wrong ?). When all is said and done, he chose Bolton -who is so one track minded that there's no mystery how this would be interpreted- and I don't buy that Pompeo just has blanket autonomy to invoke a casus belli on his Twitter (and I just that Trump doubled down on TV). Antagonizing Iran has been a continued effort for this administration so far.

Plus, IIRC he also ordered strikes in Syria on a whim. Small scale but Trump is not adverse to it in an absolute sense.

It's not that I disagree with the idea that Trump doesn't seem like the type to be thirsty for battlefield glory or that to him it's probably mostly Mad Man 4D chess & selling the bluff, but I'm uneasy at the idea that he's the ultimate failsafe while they are playing with matches in an oil refinery.

Brehvolution · « **Reply #6473 on:** June 14, 2019, 12:23:03 PM »

The current US involvement is Syria is much larger than the administration or the press will talk about.

Mandark · « **Reply #6474 on:** June 14, 2019, 12:54:12 PM »

Quote from: benjipwns on June 14, 2019, 04:57:36 AM

He got Iraq "right"

he did not

nachobro · « **Reply #6475 on:** June 14, 2019, 01:25:55 PM »

shoulda asked cheney for his playbook before trying this

Skullfuckers Anonymous · « **Reply #6476 on:** June 14, 2019, 01:35:03 PM »

Quote from: nachobro on June 14, 2019, 01:25:55 PM

shoulda asked cheney for his playbook before trying this

They’re following it.

https://m.

Raist · « **Reply #6477 on:** June 14, 2019, 01:39:25 PM »

"There were flying objects, according to the crew."

Random twitter person: "May have been bullets."

I'm not a gun expert, but I'm pretty sure bullets would be pretty hard to spot.

shosta · « **Reply #6478 on:** June 14, 2019, 01:42:15 PM »

not necessarily

sanctions have set back iran's arms four centuries

Kara · « **Reply #6479 on:** June 14, 2019, 02:08:49 PM »

Quote from: VomKriege on June 14, 2019, 11:34:39 AM

Plus, IIRC he also ordered strikes in Syria on a whim. Small scale but Trump is not adverse to it in an absolute sense.

He did, and he held a presser where he went ":'( Assad gassed the innocents" to justify shooting a bunch of missiles into a country that hasn't done anything to us since we occupied Lebanon. It was vintage Neoconservative hour. A troop died in Niger doing god knows what too. My good friend and ideological enemy benji was talking out of his ass which is an occupational hazard in contrarian corner.

News:

Author Topic: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster (Read 1313648 times)