THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on September 17, 2006, 04:31:43 PM

Title: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on September 17, 2006, 04:31:43 PM: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5784518 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5784518)

(http://www.npr.org/thisibelieve/fmiller/miller200.jpg)

I was just a boy in the 1960s. My adolescence wasn't infused with the civil rights struggle or the sexual revolution or the Vietnam War, but with their aftermath.

My high school teachers were ex-hippies and Vietnam vets. People who protested the war and people who served as soldiers. I was taught more about John Lennon than I was about Thomas Jefferson.

Both of my parents were World War II veterans. FDR-era patriots. And I was exactly the age to rebel against them.

It all fit together rather neatly. I could never stomach the flower-child twaddle of the '60s crowd and I was ready to believe that our flag was just an old piece of cloth and that patriotism was just some quaint relic, best left behind us.

It was all about the ideas. I schooled myself in the writings of Madison and Franklin and Adams and Jefferson. I came to love those noble, indestructible ideas. They were ideas, to my young mind, of rebellion and independence, not of idolatry.

But not that piece of old cloth. To me, that stood for unthinking patriotism. It meant about as much to me as that insipid peace sign that was everywhere I looked: just another symbol of a generation's sentimentality, of its narcissistic worship of its own past glories.

Then came that sunny September morning when airplanes crashed into towers a very few miles from my home and thousands of my neighbors were ruthlessly incinerated -- reduced to ash. Now, I draw and write comic books. One thing my job involves is making up bad guys. Imagining human villainy in all its forms. Now the real thing had shown up. The real thing murdered my neighbors. In my city. In my country. Breathing in that awful, chalky crap that filled up the lungs of every New Yorker, then coughing it right out, not knowing what I was coughing up.

For the first time in my life, I know how it feels to face an existential menace. They want us to die. All of a sudden I realize what my parents were talking about all those years.

Patriotism, I now believe, isn't some sentimental, old conceit. It's self-preservation. I believe patriotism is central to a nation's survival. Ben Franklin said it: If we don't all hang together, we all hang separately. Just like you have to fight to protect your friends and family, and you count on them to watch your own back.

So you've got to do what you can to help your country survive. That's if you think your country is worth a damn. Warts and all.

So I've gotten rather fond of that old piece of cloth. Now, when I look at it, I see something precious. I see something perishable.

- Frank Miller

Discuss.

EDIT -- The bolded part is what struck me the most, and what I happen to agree with. Just so you know where I stand. :)
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 04:49:20 PM: Patriotism is all well and good, and as he says, important. However there is an ugly side to it called Nationalism.

From the sounds of it he never liked Nationalism which is understandable. Now that the US was hit at home the Nationalism more closely resembles Patriotism. Our feeling of solidarity having a focus on 'survival' rather than 'being better than everyone and spreading or forcing our ideals on others'. However, nationalism is a constant under-current in any country. In extreme situations it can be a greater evil.

In short, keep patriotism in check with healthy doses of rational thought and humble pie.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on September 17, 2006, 04:53:36 PM: GOOD IDEA DR. MAF :-*
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 17, 2006, 05:37:50 PM: what is a "country"

i don't believe geography is binding

i'm more than to willing to exclude all the bible belt types and southern-fried good ol' boys
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 17, 2006, 05:41:57 PM: Is this supposed to be one of those "lets hold hands and sing koombayah" threads?
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 05:47:07 PM: Well its not a 'look at me im cynical scowling internet kid' thread
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on September 17, 2006, 05:58:12 PM: BURN
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 17, 2006, 06:03:39 PM: Quote from: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 05:47:07 PM
Well its not a 'look at me im cynical scowling internet kid' thread
you're saying this in a Frank Miller topic?
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on September 17, 2006, 06:06:38 PM: am nintenho, please stop shiting on my thread. Thanks.

:shh And by the way, kill yourself! :shh
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 17, 2006, 06:10:01 PM: why? I'm not the little bitch excited over the sensation he gets from a fairly good satirist's opinion of a psychotic country.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on September 17, 2006, 06:12:48 PM: Quote from: am nintenho on September 17, 2006, 06:10:01 PM
why? I'm not the little bitch excited over the sensation he gets from a fairly good satirist's opinion of a psychotic country.

And where in any of my posts do you read "FRANK MILLER GETS ME ALL WET OMG I'M ORGASMING IN THE CORNER CALL 911!!!!11"? Please, for the rest of us, shut the fuck up. ;)
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 17, 2006, 06:13:50 PM: Quote from: The Dark Shake on September 17, 2006, 06:12:48 PM
This I believe.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on September 17, 2006, 06:14:58 PM: MAF's right, you really don't make any sense. Please gtfo. ;)
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 17, 2006, 06:17:21 PM: Quote from: The Dark Shake on September 17, 2006, 06:14:58 PM
MAF's right, you really don't make any sense. Please gtfo. ;)
damn, you're a skinhead.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on September 17, 2006, 06:18:32 PM: And btw "This I believe" is the name of the NPR segment. Ready to stop making an ass out of yourself yet? ::)
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 17, 2006, 06:20:47 PM: Quote from: The Dark Shake on September 17, 2006, 06:18:32 PM
And btw "This I believe" is the name of the NPR segment. Ready to stop making an ass out of yourself yet? ::)
no you said you agreed with him.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 06:22:29 PM: how is master-shake a skinhead? Seriously I am all for honest exhanges of opinions, but if youre going to pull that kind of stuff out of your ass I may have to re-evaluate your role in this conversation.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 17, 2006, 06:25:41 PM: Quote from: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 06:22:29 PM
how is master-shake a skinhead? Seriously I am all for honest exhanges of opinions, but if youre going to pull that kind of stuff out of your ass I may have to re-evaluate your role in this conversation.
Acted nazi-ish, which you can in this country but it makes no sense to act that way.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 06:28:29 PM: What's nazi-ish? Quote it.

And dont quote the original post, come on. I know youre hyper-sensitive about this stuff, but be serious. Why dont you go to a place with ACTUAL psychotic bastards who want a war of religion, this wasn't even that serious a thread. Suddenly expressing agreement with a relatively modest and thought out opinion = nazi? Come on dude.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 17, 2006, 06:31:34 PM: Quote from: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 06:28:29 PM
What's nazi-ish? Quote it.
And dont quote the original post, come on. I know youre hyper-sensitive about this stuff, but be serious. Why dont you go to a place with ACTUAL psychotic bastards who want a war of religion, this wasn't even that serious a thread. Suddenly expressing agreement with a relatively modest and thought out opinion = nazi? Come on dude.
He said BURN!

Does he try to explain how grateful he is for this country? no, he just says this guy is well-spoken. pretty stupid in my opinion.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 06:32:51 PM: what are you even saying anymore? I swear its like youre drunk half the time.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 17, 2006, 06:36:16 PM: Quote from: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 06:32:51 PM
what are you even saying anymore? I swear its like youre drunk half the time.
*shrug*

I'm too used to OA where rabid fanboyism is balanced out by the other side. This set off my alarms. Maybe Master Shake really is an idiot but I don't care...I just see gibberish.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 06:40:23 PM: if you didnt care you wouldnt be in this thread.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 17, 2006, 06:43:20 PM: Quote from: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 06:40:23 PM
if you didnt care you wouldnt be in this thread.
I don't care NOW.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: The Fake Shemp on September 17, 2006, 06:59:57 PM: It's like what Uncle Ben said, "With great power, comes great responsibility." I think this applies to all threads.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 07:02:25 PM: I wish uncle ben said something about amnintenho making sense when he rants.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 17, 2006, 07:06:05 PM: Quote from: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 07:02:25 PM
I wish uncle ben said something about amnintenho making sense when he rants.
Uncle Ben has no nephews.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: BlueTsunami on September 17, 2006, 07:10:27 PM: :pacman :link :zelda :luigi :mario :peach :waluigi :wario :bowser :yoshi
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 17, 2006, 07:15:45 PM: Quote from: BlueTsunami on September 17, 2006, 07:10:27 PM
:pacman :link :zelda :luigi :mario :peach :waluigi :wario :bowser :yoshi
it's the food chain man. it's the food chain.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: APF on September 17, 2006, 11:41:18 PM: Quote from: am nintenho on September 17, 2006, 06:31:34 PM
Quote from: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 06:28:29 PM
What's nazi-ish? Quote it.
He said BURN!

You're fucking distinguished mentally-challenged. Oh snap!

(OMG I said "snap," like I wanted to snap someone's neck and not something entirely obvious in context OMG OMG OMG)
Title: MAF's friends are all weird.
Post by: Mandark on September 18, 2006, 12:03:26 AM: Quote from: am nintenho on September 17, 2006, 06:31:34 PM
Quote from: MrAngryFace on September 17, 2006, 06:28:29 PM
What's nazi-ish? Quote it.
He said BURN!

Where do you get these guys, MAF? Seriously.

Anyway, I imagine Frank Miller flipping through a GamePro and reading "PROTIP: Patriotism serves a social function!" Then he gave it a thumbs up with spikey hair.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 18, 2006, 12:11:52 AM: I dunno man, I mean its not even like he was kidding. Its like he showed up for a debate with a the menu from a pizza place for notes.

I read half of his replies and im like "what? huh?" Then the blood came out of my nose.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 18, 2006, 12:57:54 AM: I'm just being modest.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: The Fake Shemp on September 18, 2006, 01:07:03 AM: My Pokemans, let me show you them.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 18, 2006, 01:15:13 AM: Quote from: Willco on September 18, 2006, 01:07:03 AM
My Pokemans, let me show you them.
That was stupid...
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: Boogie on September 18, 2006, 01:19:53 AM: Quote from: am nintenho on September 18, 2006, 01:15:13 AM
Quote from: Willco on September 18, 2006, 01:07:03 AM
My Pokemans, let me show you them.
That was stupid...

well, this thread would make you the court-recognized expert on stupid, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 18, 2006, 01:21:19 AM: Quote from: Boogie on September 18, 2006, 01:19:53 AM
well, this thread would make you the court-recognized expert on stupidity, wouldn't it?
don't you mean court-appointed?
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: Boogie on September 18, 2006, 01:21:44 AM: Quote from: am nintenho on September 18, 2006, 01:21:19 AM
Quote from: Boogie on September 18, 2006, 01:19:53 AM
well, this thread would make you the court-recognized expert on stupidity, wouldn't it?
don't you mean court-appointed?

no, no I do not.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: brawndolicious on September 18, 2006, 01:24:04 AM: Quote from: Boogie on September 18, 2006, 01:21:44 AM
no, no I do not.
oh, I'm sorry then.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on September 18, 2006, 11:56:08 AM: am nintenho, you're honestly the most distinguished mentally-challenged poster I have ever come across on these forums. And with Pheonix Dark droping tardbombs every hour, that's saying ALOT. ::)
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 18, 2006, 12:21:58 PM: HERE COMES DAREDEVIL!
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: Flannel Boy on September 18, 2006, 01:24:39 PM: Deleted by user.
Title: Re: THIS I BELIEVE: Frank Miller on Patriotism After 9/11
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on September 18, 2006, 05:33:42 PM: Quote from: malek4980 on September 18, 2006, 01:24:39 PM
Quote from: MrAngryFace on September 18, 2006, 12:21:58 PM
HERE COMES DAREDEVIL!
Worst movie directed by Orson Wells.

Didn't he do Clerks? ???