THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: TVC15 on September 25, 2007, 02:34:45 AM

Title: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: TVC15 on September 25, 2007, 02:34:45 AM: The other day, Prole and I were trying to figure out why we both loved Blue Dragon so much, but were kind of overall lukewarm over Dragon Quest 8.

The games share many similarities. Both are old school to a fault, and feature gorgeous graphics (no idea if DQ8 holds up on the new giant TV. I wouldn't be surprised if it held up better than most PS2 games due to its flat-shaded toony art style). Both games feature combat systems that weren't even considered neato by the standards of a decade ago. Both games feature simple plots that throw animu or jrpg cliche after cliche. Both games have towns filled with NPCs that say the same pointless things as ten, and even near twenty years ago.

The key difference between the two? I was done with DQ8 within ten hours, and I will be riding BD to completion.

So what is it? Both games, both intentional throwbacks, old school design in a crisp candy shell, are inarguably expertly crafted. I'm not even trying to say DQ8 is lackluster, it just didn't grab me like BD does.

I think I may have figured it out. Requires a bit of an explanation, so stick with me.

Back in like 1991, I used to rent games once a week. Like every Friday I'd get to the good rental store and get to pick out a game. This was really the first good rental store in my area, so I was exposed to many things, good and bad, that I had missed in the past. One of these games was Final Fantasy 2. I remember, years earlier, in a Nintendo Power, reading a glowing writeup on Final Fantasy for the NES, probably from when it first came out. I did get to try that game, but I think I was a little too young for it to hold my interest. But in 1991 I rented FF2, and I totally fell in love with it. It was what hooked me on JRPGs, and probably for upwards of more than a decade, it was my favorite in the series, even in the face of FF3, and 7, and even other classics like Chrono Trigger. I was just the right age for the story to seem great; never exposed to animu or (really) RPGs. Yes, it was clearly a flavor of fantasy, but the scifi elements seemed so neat to me, and the globetrotting story really hooked me.

Of course, when Square started rereleasing it, I was kind of surprised to see how, well, simple and crap the game is. Nostalgia. Sometimes it's great like with Tales from the Crypt. Sometimes it's a bitch, like with FF2.

So what does this have to do with Blue Dragon? FF2 was actually missing all the elements I remembered it having for all those years. The involving story was actually. . .really simple. So was the combat. The characters, I probably enjoyed them because of the variety at the time, my inexposure to more exotic games and animu-influenced things preventing me from seeing how hackneyed the whole ordeal was. But all those things I remembered FF2 as having in spades, well, Blue Dragon sort of has them. Blue Dragon is basically the game that I remembered FF2 being for all those years when I did not have access to it. I'm not saying it has a great story or a cutting edge combat system, but it has a great, archetypal story in the vein of FF2, with a variety of distinctive characters, and a combat system that's a direct descendent from that classic model one in FF2, except punched up to be a bit more fetching.

And of course, all of this hit me as I'm invading the bad guy's giant airship, which is totally reminding me of crashing Golbez's joint, or possibly being in the Giant of Babel.

Heck, even the soundtrack during it's less, uh, rock cock vocal wailing moments, reminds me a bit of FF2.

Also, the Toriyama art of course reminds me of Chrono Trigger and DQ. I get a classic DQ vibe from the story, too. I'd say it's reminiscent of DQ in the story, and FF in the environments, though it has fingerprints of both all over.

This is going to be one of my games of the year. I can't believe I have totally fallen in love with a JRPG again. It's been a long, long time.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: demi on September 25, 2007, 02:39:45 AM: Told you
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 25, 2007, 02:41:19 AM: i like it more because the environments are just fuck-all drop dead gorgeous and panoramic. the music is some of uematsu's best yet, and the monster designs are EASILY toriyama's best. the game is pure charm. it's like an animu pixar movie come to life, if pixar were to make a shonen animu. it's a lively, animated experience. also, nene is TOTALLY what kefka wanted to be as far as villains go. he's an evil omnipotent geriatric that is actually kinda frightening in spite of his comical appearance. it's nice to have a totally loathesome villain for once!

also there is lots of loot.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: TVC15 on September 25, 2007, 02:43:50 AM: I dunno, I like a lot of the DQ monster designs. I mean, BD is definitely up there, but DQ has the whole God Damned Cute thing going on. Not that BD's don't, either, but. . .damn, I have no idea where I am going. Maybe it has to do with BD's style being 3d and kind of Pixar-y, as opposed to DQ8's 2d styled monsters.

But come on, does this game not reming you of FF4/2?
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 25, 2007, 02:46:20 AM: but i like that it eschews cute for weird. the mural folk are my favorite npc designs EVER. (i want a mural kitty!) i haven't seen this much visual variety in AGES.

i was too old -- 17 or so -- to really get into ff2/4. i was a total pc whore for ultima 6 right about then, and while i liked ff2 (my brother adored it), it didn't have the same impact on me. i get what you're saying, though.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: TVC15 on September 25, 2007, 02:47:07 AM: What your saying is: Magna Carta YES, FF2 NO!
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 25, 2007, 02:47:39 AM: how can i resist the horse nipples
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: MCD on September 25, 2007, 05:51:11 AM: It's really sad about the poor reviews it received.

one of the best games on the 360 in my own opinion.

strange thing i never liked DQ games yet i am loving BD (still at disc 2), it's either the graphics, characters or the gameplay.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: demi on September 25, 2007, 05:52:51 AM: Quote from: TVC 15 on September 25, 2007, 02:43:50 AM
But come on, does this game not reming you of FF4/2?

Heh, you are only on Disc 2 right?

Well... you will begin to notice LOTS of callbacks to FF4 later on, especially beginning of Disc 3

Even I pointed them out to someone when I was playing
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: BlueTsunami on September 25, 2007, 08:30:50 AM: I fell in love with the game when I reached the Ancient Hospital near the beginning of the game. The way Uematsu can just take an environment and transform it and give it a huge amount of character (that clicks with a gamer) just from the music alone is a feat in itself.

The visuals in this game are breathtaking. I cannot fucken wait to see what various JRPG games will look like due to Blue Dragon, its amazing when you compare and contrast the visuals from PS2 JRPGs and Nextgen JRPGs.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: tiesto on September 25, 2007, 08:51:26 AM: The variety in visual design in all the different areas is one of the best things about BD, some of the later environments especially look absolutely stunning.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Wait till you get to Devour Town... looks absolutely amazing. Or when you get into the center of the planet
[close]
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Himu on September 25, 2007, 11:38:28 AM: I love DQ8's 2d stylized monsters.

DQ's monsters in general are all great. DQ8 had such nice touches like the Jailcat. JAILCAT CASTS CRACK. I love stuff like that.

I want this game so much. :(
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: DJ_Tet on September 25, 2007, 12:11:04 PM: This game turned out to be a nice surprise it sounds like. I can't wait to check it out :D

FF2 SNES is my third favorite RPG, behind Chrono Trigger and FF3 SNES. I'm a little older than you TVC, and had some experience with RPGs, namely Phantasy Star, Dragon WARRIOR, and Phantasy Star II. I missed out on FF on NES, but FF2 was such a step up in scope to me from all those other rpg's I had played. A lot of that had to do with the music at the time, and although PSII was a fantastic game in it's own right, to me Square had defined the genre.

I could never imagine at that time that Square would end up killing my love of rpgs with FFVII.

Hopefully this game will help rekindle it.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 25, 2007, 12:29:29 PM: so cute sad story: my wife was looking at the omnipresent halloween goods at qfc with my daughter while at the grocery store with her, and there was a treat bowl with a one eyed ghost with cat ears on it. MURAL KITTY, my daughter squealed (she watches enrapt as i play play bd -- she calls it "the little boy game" -- and i tell her all the names of the monsters), MURAL KITTY! my wife didn't know about the mural kitties in bd, and she kept trying to correct my daughter. NO, NO, my daughter apparently responded, NOT A GHOST, IT'S A MURAL KITTY. (her lousy "r" pronunciations probably didn't help.) she got mad at her mom, i guess, and had to be tearfully removed from the seasonal aisle.

later last night, i was telling my wife about bd while reading tvc's post, and she asked me about the mural town designs (hey, we're ten years married. conversations have reached this point) and i mentioned the "mural cats." my wife looked surprised and said "what?" and i explained that it was a "cute little one-eyed bat-slash-cat thing" in the game. she went "oh, that's what sian was talking about!"

my daughter now thinks one-eyed batcats are merely mundane ghosts. :'( so sad. :'(
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: bluemax on September 25, 2007, 12:55:46 PM: I totally feel the same as both Prole and TVC. For some reason the experience of this game warps me back in time to when I first played FF2/4. And the settings and graphics just look so good.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Himu on September 25, 2007, 01:14:28 PM: lmao drinky that's cute
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Phoenix Dark on September 25, 2007, 01:15:47 PM: A little too sensationalist for my tastes

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Awwww :zelda
[close]
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: cubicle47b on September 25, 2007, 01:19:36 PM: Final Fantasy 2 was my second favorite RPG on the SNES. I would have been 11 when I first played it. I remember that we rented a SNES and the game and I started playing it right when I woke up the next morning. There was a storm outside that kept the living room dark until well after noon with rain and occasional lighting and that coupled with a story about a dark knight's flight from a corrupt kingdom (along with the amazing red wings theme) kept me thoroughly engrossed. I still look fondly at those first few hours up until Cecil becomes a paladin.

I played through Dragon Quest 3 that summer too which resulted in me drawing DQ enemies and "planning" DQ4. Man, that was a good summer.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 25, 2007, 01:24:34 PM: wow, i never planned sequels as a kid, although i did code really awful half-complete shooters and old-school arcade games on the apple 2 and the amiga.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Himu on September 25, 2007, 01:29:42 PM: Quote from: pussy boner on September 25, 2007, 01:23:01 PM
Quote from: cubicle47b on September 25, 2007, 01:19:36 PM
I played through Dragon Quest 3 that summer too which resulted in me drawing DQ enemies and "planning" DQ4. Man, that was a good summer.
When Mega Man 3 came out I spent a summer planning MM4 and a few other sequels. While my bosses weren't drawn as well as the ones in the actual game my ideas were a fuck load better than what Capcom did.

:lol
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: tiesto on September 25, 2007, 02:24:53 PM: Quote from: pussy boner on September 25, 2007, 01:23:01 PM
Quote from: cubicle47b on September 25, 2007, 01:19:36 PM
I played through Dragon Quest 3 that summer too which resulted in me drawing DQ enemies and "planning" DQ4. Man, that was a good summer.
When Mega Man 3 came out I spent a summer planning MM4 and a few other sequels. While my bosses weren't drawn as well as the ones in the actual game my ideas were a fuck load better than what Capcom did.

Heh, when I was little I drew maps, monsters, weapons, items, etc my ideas for games/sequels... Crystalis 2, lots of FF and PS sequels, and games that would star my friends. I remember one of them being a Phantasy Star type RPG based on one of my neighbors where you traveled to all the different planets in our solar system. I also submitted a few of my bosses to Nintendo Power's MM contests - Garbage Man being one I distinctively remember :P
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: TVC15 on September 25, 2007, 04:05:53 PM: Quote from: Himuro on September 25, 2007, 11:38:28 AM
I love DQ8's 2d stylized monsters.

DQ's monsters in general are all great. DQ8 had such nice touches like the Jailcat. JAILCAT CASTS CRACK. I love stuff like that.

I want this game so much. :(

My one real complaint with DQ8's monsters is that there were still too many palette swaps. Probably another plus with Blue Dragon. I loved DQ8's designs, but it seems like every single area had a palette swap of the ultra-cute jailcat.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Himu on September 25, 2007, 04:18:28 PM: the palette swaps are annoying
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: demi on September 25, 2007, 04:23:48 PM: There are palette swaps of several enemies in Blue Dragon, actually. But they at least attempt to make them more unique. The Poos are one example.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Himu on September 25, 2007, 04:24:55 PM: how do they make them more unique?
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: demi on September 25, 2007, 04:26:13 PM: Play it and find out.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: bluemax on September 25, 2007, 04:30:04 PM: Quote from: pussy boner on September 25, 2007, 01:23:01 PM
Quote from: cubicle47b on September 25, 2007, 01:19:36 PM
I played through Dragon Quest 3 that summer too which resulted in me drawing DQ enemies and "planning" DQ4. Man, that was a good summer.
When Mega Man 3 came out I spent a summer planning MM4 and a few other sequels. While my bosses weren't drawn as well as the ones in the actual game my ideas were a fuck load better than what Capcom did.

I think I still have a notebook of Mega Man bosses I came up with after playing MM3. I think at least a third of them ended up as actual bosses. Apparently Capcom hired second graders to design the robots.

Quote from: demi on September 25, 2007, 04:23:48 PM
There are palette swaps of several enemies in Blue Dragon, actually. But they at least attempt to make them more unique. The Poos are one example.

Yeah I'm like 12 hours in and I've seen 3-4 different Poo Snakes already.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: TVC15 on September 25, 2007, 05:03:46 PM: Quote from: demi on September 25, 2007, 04:23:48 PM
There are palette swaps of several enemies in Blue Dragon, actually. But they at least attempt to make them more unique. The Poos are one example.

I've really only noticed it with the Poos and three kinds of robots, which is pretty good for being about 20 hours in.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 25, 2007, 05:14:39 PM: the skeletons had some swaps, too, but really, i have not played an rpg with as much visual variety as blue dragon.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Hitler Stole My Potato on September 25, 2007, 05:19:56 PM: Quote from: tiesto on September 25, 2007, 08:51:26 AM
The variety in visual design in all the different areas is one of the best things about BD, some of the later environments especially look absolutely stunning.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Wait till you get to Devour Town... looks absolutely amazing. Or when you get into the center of the planet
[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Devour Town as alright but when the planet splits in two and you're flying around the cube worlds.....holy crap. That was fucking insane looking.
[close]
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 25, 2007, 05:22:43 PM: also, it's usually more than just a mere pallette swap ala dq8 -- there's always additional model/texture features and different animations.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: demi on September 25, 2007, 05:24:56 PM: That's what I meant, silly.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: BlueTsunami on September 25, 2007, 07:49:08 PM: Quote from: demi on September 25, 2007, 04:23:48 PM
There are palette swaps of several enemies in Blue Dragon, actually. But they at least attempt to make them more unique. The Poos are one example.

About the Poos

spoiler (click to show/hide)
It was hilarious when I found out that water could soften the Stone Poos defense
[close]

I lol'ed
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 25, 2007, 07:52:51 PM: demi, advice for the end of the 1st disc

spoiler (click to show/hide)
if i follow zola into the second portal, do i get to fight the fifth robot boss? or should i just take the 1st portal and go straight to the szabo fight
[close]
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: demi on September 25, 2007, 07:53:33 PM: You can't follow Zola, proceed in your portal as instructed.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 25, 2007, 07:56:47 PM: so how do i fight the fifth robot boss?
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: demi on September 25, 2007, 08:01:24 PM: You're talking about the part where you split ways, where Zola goes to deactivate the last Eternal Engine and you head after Nene?

There is no fifth boss, it was just the four robots (FF4 call back -- Milon, Valvalis, Kainazzo, Rubicant) and ~~Golbez~~ Szabo. You're fine.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 25, 2007, 08:04:30 PM: hm, okay. coulda sworn i counted five "tanks" in the cutscene, but you're probably right.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: TVC15 on September 25, 2007, 08:14:26 PM: One little nitpick, and just pointing it out--it's not really that bad in light of the ease of difficulty--when you use the monster encyclopedia (aka, the typical monster info spell replacement), it almost never tells you anything useful, usually only giving a small line of flavor text and ending your turn.

Again, it's an easy game, so figuring out weaknesses and what not is usually pretty easy, but that monster encyclopedia is almost useless. Aside from the cute text.

Also, while it's not hard, or even moderately difficult, the game has gotten a bit tougher, although it is still nowhere near challenging, and I would feel embarassed to be Prole, who has died on a boss.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 25, 2007, 08:15:42 PM: i haven't died since! i was just being lazy and stupid!
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: demi on September 25, 2007, 08:15:55 PM: You don't have to use the encyclopedia at all, all you have to do is defeat them and it fills out the log. I never used it once, anyway.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: TVC15 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:52 PM: Quote from: demi on September 25, 2007, 08:15:55 PM
You don't have to use the encyclopedia at all, all you have to do is defeat them and it fills out the log. I never used it once, anyway.

I have pulled it out a few times, maybe twice because I wanted to know a weakness, and a few times otherwise to see if it was always as useless as it was when I needed it.
Title: Re: I think I have finally figured out why I love Blue Dragon so much
Post by: tiesto on September 25, 2007, 09:12:30 PM: One of the only times I recall dying was

spoiler (click to show/hide)
when you fight Szabo's 4 henchmen at once... didn't realize that there was an optimal "order" to beat them in, i.e. take out the knife thrower first
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